Yale and Stanford

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by jtheater, Oct 28, 2002.

  1. jtheater

    jtheater Senior Member
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    Just wanted to start a thread asking why so many people view Yale and Stanford Med as sub par (as compared to other top schools). I've heard many comments that they rest on the reputations of their colleges and other graduate programs. I've always considered these programs as two of the top in the country. I also think they do add to the prestigious reputation of the Universities. Ironically, they are also two of the most liberal programs as far as educational philosophy. They allow their students to pursue studies that don't make them the cookie-cutter med school graduates that many other places produce (an opinion). Could this have something to do with it?

    Any thoughts on this?
     
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  3. bujji13

    bujji13 Senior Member
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    Yale and Stanford??!? Sub-par?!?! This is news to me.....
    Even in comparison to other "top" programs, I don't think anyone who doesn't have a particular axe to grind with one of these schools could manage to say that Yale and Stanford are sub-par, at least not without laughing. :laugh:

    They're both great schools. All the "top" programs are. As are the majority of the med schools in the U.S.

    Period.
     
  4. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member
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    Yeah, it's probably just something lesser schools say. :p
     
  5. cabruen

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    Well...actually I have heard quite a bit of complaining about Stanford and Yale.

    Stanford has been bashed on SDN for crumbling facilities to the point of hindering the academic teaching.

    Yale is universally critized by the doctors I work with at Scott&White for producing medical school graduates way behind the learning curve of other med school graduates -- both academically and clinically. And these doctors have no particular axe to grind. They are also very complimentary about other schools.

    I have no opinion as to whether either of these are true, but I have certainly heard it enough from unconnected people, that makes me think it may have some credance. This is not to say they are bad schools, but they both have some major problems.

    I think it is to flipant to dismiss the criticisms to institutional jealousy.
     
  6. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member
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    Yeah, I was being flippant, hence the :p.

    So when you say the "learning curve" thing, they actually don't know their stuff? How do they pass MLE's? And Yale and Stanford grads are still getting good residencies...
     
  7. Veilside

    Veilside Senior Member
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    well you gotta love Yale's curriculum, though. all you have to do is pass the boards. it doesn't even matter how well you do on the exams. not even the school knows how you are doing on your exams and your classes.
     
  8. Woots32

    Woots32 kinda funky, kinda fine
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    Maybe that's why they're looked down on?
     
  9. cabruen

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    Good point. I missed the smiley. ;)

    Basically I have heard that they don't know their stuff as well as they should, and that they seem to be lost on the wards. True or not I don't know, but I have heard it alot.

    BTW, what happened to our sarcasm thread? I have a great one all typed up and ready to go (on what we would like to hear from the schools when asking for status updates), but all the threads seem so serious these days.
     
  10. crazyA

    crazyA Senior Member
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    I figured there had to be some reason Stanford had moved out of the US News Top 10 rankings...

    But before someone jumps all over me to point out that rankings aren't everything, they do reflect a lot of facets that contribute to a school's overall reputation, and they form somewhat of a basis for us to argue off of

    And I've been wondering for a while now about all these school who have Pass/Fail for their first and sometimes their second years...I think it's an obvious disincentive to study. Of course, there will always be plenty of people who are both responsible and motivated enough to study anyway, but I think for the majority of students (myself included) it could keep us from learning the material as well as we could if we were motivated by grades...do you guys think this could be a reason cabruen's acquaintances claim Yale students are underprepared?
     
  11. Veilside

    Veilside Senior Member
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    i'm sure it's not looked down on by current Yale medical students. and i'm sure applicants who get accepted into Yale are motivated enough to not take advantage of the curriculum and utilize it in such a way to facilitate learning and personal growth. actually come to think of it, i'm not so sure b/c i know i wouldn't do much studying if i were in Yale.
     
  12. cabruen

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    Just to be clear, I am not bashing the schools. I have applied to both Yale and Stanford, and would dearly love to go to Stanford. But just like any school we hope to attend, we need to be aware of their strengths and weaknesses.
     
  13. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member
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    Oh, I wasn't accusing you of bashing. Given your character on SDN, you wouldn't do that unless it was warranted. :)

    It's really interesting to hear what people say in the field. I'd also like to know what residency directors think.

    As for sarcasm threads, some of them got bumped to The Lounge or something.
     
  14. xaelia

    xaelia neenlet
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    "In their report, the LCME examiners said that one of Stanford's greatest assets is its highly talented faculty, who show an "extraordinary" commitment to teaching. They also praised the school's flexible curriculum, diverse student body, preeminent research program, outstanding clinical facilities, visionary leadership and excellent student support services.

    Their criticisms dealt in large part with deficiencies in physical facilities and in some specific areas of the curriculum. In particular, the examiners cited the inadequate space and lack of bathrooms and air conditioning in Lane Medical Library, as well as the "primitive" study carrels, the lack of space for teaching in small groups and the need for upgraded computer facilities. The library's inadequacies had been noted in previous LCME reviews in 1983 and 1991. "



    "STANFORD: Medical school needs new facilities
    School narrowly missed being put on probation last year

    The medical researchers do breakthrough work that often makes headlines in science and medical journals, but the facilities they work in are tired, old and belong to a bygone era.

    Things are bad enough at Stanford Medical School that last year the school came within one vote of being put on probation by a national accreditation agency. And even though a national magazine this year has ranked Stanford 10th nationally among medical schools, it is losing top students to competing schools, possibly because of its aging facilities.

    Of the medical students Stanford approves for admission who are also accepted at Harvard or the University of California, San Francisco, only 4 percent choose Stanford instead of the school's top competitors.

    Dr. Ken Melmon, chairman of the medical school's faculty body, outlined the poor state of affairs at the school recently to the university's Faculty Senate.

    Melmon also disclosed that the school narrowly missed being put on probation last year by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, which accredits medical schools. The liaison committee instead accredited Stanford for the next seven years.

    "Stanford is a fine medical school, and its graduates are splendid," said Dr. Robert Kassebaum, liaison secretary, in a recent letter to the school. "(But) no school of the standing and quality and affluence of Stanford has instructional facilities that bad."

    The school has not been substantially upgraded since it was built in 1959. Among other things, it suffers from a cramped library with inadequate storage and study space."


    I went to Stanford. The medical school is...not pretty.
     
  15. bujji13

    bujji13 Senior Member
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    You know, I've been wondering about this lately, after visiting a few schools. That maybe the appearance of a school's facilities are indicative of how much funding they have or better yet how much of their money goes back to the students? And it doesn't seem to be related to prestige either...

    Maybe appearance does matter. :)
     
  16. GoodMonkey

    GoodMonkey sproutmobile
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    in terms of my opinion on yale (one of my tippy-top choices), i'm especially considering the school *because* of the way their curriculum is structured. (the no grades thing and all) i'm looking for a more non-traditional approach to med school, hence why i'm really excited about schools like duke, umich and yale - all w/slightly to very non-trad curriculums, and not as geeked up about a school like emory. while it's a great school, it's curriculum is very traditional. i know i personally learn better in a more self-motivated environment than with the test-every-week-with-grades environment. this is NOT bashing one way of doing thing or another, and it's NOT saying either is inferior/superior to another. this is just me saying it fits my learning style better. in either case, i don't know how it's looked upon by the ranking community or the populace in general, but both stanford and yale are still highly ranked and respected schools and i'd love to attend either.

    and i agree w/cabruen's sentiment: you need to know the school's strengths and weaknesses. i'd never apply to yale if i knew i wouldn't thrive and i'd fall behind in that kind of environment
     
  17. jtheater

    jtheater Senior Member
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    Actually of all the medical schools out there, Stanford is probably most generous in terms of financial aid, scholarships, and research opportunities. Yeah, their library and classrooms need upgrading, they know. Just a plug for the five year program at Stanford (and this demonstrates how much they give their students). The fifth year is tuition-free. You pay room/board and fees (about $1000 per quarter, this is university dictated). So why would you do this?

    You can spread your pre-clin years over 3 instead of two. That way, you can either free up time to A) do research or B) TA. When you do this, you get tuition credit and a stipend that adds up to 9 units of tuition free and $2000-3000 in pocket. Basically it is like being a PhD grad student. You don't pay for school that quarter. That is why even though Stanford has a high tuition, their graduates graduate with the same debt as UC and other public schools (even less). I think that is worth an extra year.
     
  18. kreno

    kreno Candy Man
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    I heard that Yale students score extremely well on the USMILE board exam.

    And you are all forgetting about the RESEARCH that all yale students are required to do. That is a MAJOR part of their time-committment and learning at the institution.
     
  19. kreno

    kreno Candy Man
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    And also.. Yale graduates land the best residencies. So, obviously the residency directors don't have a problem with yale! It's the opposite. This is really a simple debate.
     
  20. GoodMonkey

    GoodMonkey sproutmobile
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    nope, not forgetting it at all. :D another reason why it's a tippy-top choice. i'm into the research but don't wanna go phd, so it seems good for me. :)
     
  21. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member
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    Yale allows a 5th year tuition free as well, if you want it. Some people use a year to do their theses.
     
  22. kreno

    kreno Candy Man
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    Yeah, and talk about an awesome way to juxtopose studies for combined degrees (MPH, PhD, MBA, etc)! It's just the perfect school!
     
  23. kreno

    kreno Candy Man
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    Yeah, and talk about an awesome way to juxtopose studies for combined degrees (MPH, PhD, MBA, etc)! It's just the perfect school!
     
  24. exigente chica

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    Could not have put it better myself:clap:
     

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