Yale medical students issue demands for diversity

[tymont12]

It's not an anachronistic, idiotic quirk. It happened during World War II when wages were frozen in this country and employers still needed a way to attract workers. So health insurance was a huge perk to attract people. It's still a huge perk for people which is why it has stayed. Ask any teacher, police officer, engineer, or businessman how much they value their private health insurance. Even if you didn't have a job, you could still buy COBRA plans or buy health insurance as an individual.

I think the point holds true though that it is outdated and made much more sense when you were being hired into your 30-year career and possibly would never switch insurances.

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[charmiedermie]

I think the point holds true though that it is outdated and made much more sense when you were being hired into your 30-year career and possibly would never switch insurances.

You do not have to buy the insurance your employer provides. It's a benefit, a perk of the job. You can buy it on your own also. My point that people love their private health insurance plans still holds.

 

[atomi]

I went the opposite way. I grew up and realized that the other citizens of this country are human beings.

Get back to us after you have spent a few years in the ED draining softball size abscesses from heroin skin poppers who have been injecting street drugs for 35 years, never worked an honest day in their lives, curse at you, complain, refuse to pay even $1.50 for life saving antibiotics (yet somehow are able to come up with $70/day for heroin), make demands for free everything, and put you at a real risk for acquiring their bloodborne pathogens.

 

[el_duderino]

Get back to us after you have spent a few years in the ED draining softball size abscesses from heroin skin poppers who have been injecting street drugs for 35 years, never worked an honest day in their lives, curse at you, complain, refuse to pay even $1.50 for life saving antibiotics (yet somehow are able to come up with $70/day for heroin), make demands for free everything, and put you at a real risk for acquiring their bloodborne pathogens.

Those bastards don't deserve health insurance, amirite?

 

[username456789]

Those bastards don't deserve health insurance, amirite?

Not for free.

( also, you need to dial down the strawman thing.)

 

[Psai]

Those bastards don't deserve health insurance, amirite?

They deserve the right to pay thousands of dollars a year that covers nothing and have to pay a 5000 copay for anything just like everyone else

 

[GUH]

Those bastards don't deserve health insurance, amirite?

All of us deserve to be forced to pay for their personal choices, amirite?

 

[atomi]

Those bastards don't deserve health insurance, amirite?

You know where these people can get free healthcare, free food, free education, and cannot use drugs anymore?

Prison.

Where do you go when you need free healthcare (often including free IV opiates) and free food but aren't currently incarcerated? The emergency room.

Like I said, get back us after you have done your intern rotation month in the ED and let us know if you want to make a career of serving this patient population.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Keep it civil guys.

 

[chrissyxf]

.

 

[PL198]

Well, sure, it might be worth pursuing but the fact of the matter is that there is next to zero chance that it will become a reality in the near future due to the politics surrounding the issue. Despite what you might think, this makes any kind of single-payer solution just as difficult to implement as a lack of resources.

This is a common problem I see with progressive folks: there is often a deliberate choice to ignore reality. Thus far, your arguments have relied on your feels and what other countries have done. Neither is particularly convincing to those who don't agree with you and certainly aren't going to convince the populace at large to suddenly be in favor of a government-run healthcare program.

Single-payer healthcare is one solution to the problem. However, it is not the only solution, and depending on your perspective, it certainly isn't the optimal solution.

their whole beliefs are centered around the need to ignore reality.

 

[PL198]

People are also terrified to lose their jobs and lose their health insurance... or leave a terrible, toxic job because they can't lose their health insurance.

The tying of health insurance to employment is an anachronistic, idiotic quirk of the history of American health insurance.

well if it gives them health insurance which means so much to them, it clearly must not be so terrible and toxic

 

[giantswing]

People are also terrified to lose their jobs and lose their health insurance... or leave a terrible, toxic job because they can't lose their health insurance.

The tying of health insurance to employment is an anachronistic, idiotic quirk of the history of American health insurance.

People work terrible toxic jobs to feed their family. It's what you need to do.

 

[Willy38]

As a current student at Yale, just thought I'd chime in about all this. There is a significant number of us who do not feel the way the "demands" would lead many to believe (they were written by a small group of "anonymous" people claiming to have the support of everyone in the class which is NOT the case).

However, there is little formal opposition because any disagreement is immediately shouted down with ad hominems and comments about how we couldn't possibly understand.

Those of us who feel that a lot of this is ridiculous just tend to focus on studying/step prep anyway. As per usual, it seems those who shout the loudest are often the most heard regardless of the content of their complaints.

Don't write off all Yalies. A lot of this mess has been centered around the undergraduates and a lot of us in the med school work really hard.

 

[Willy38]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[America's Next Top Doctor]

Step 1 is a trigger for me. I shouldn't have to take it. #microagression.

Is that how it works? Give me what I want now.

 

[Psai]

As a current student at Yale, just thought I'd chime in about all this. There is a significant number of us who do not feel the way the "demands" would lead many to believe (they were written by a small group of "anonymous" people claiming to have the support of everyone in the class which is NOT the case).

However, there is little formal opposition because any disagreement is immediately shouted down with ad hominems and comments about how we couldn't possibly understand.

Those of us who feel that a lot of this is ridiculous just tend to focus on studying/step prep anyway. As per usual, it seems those who shout the loudest are often the most heard regardless of the content of their complaints.

Don't write off all Yalies. A lot of this mess has been centered around the undergraduates and a lot of us in the med school work really hard.

I feel you. There is one kid in my class who is like this but is totally insufferable and most of us can't stand them

 

[Goro]

I cannot possibly make this stuff up!!
Look!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/u...ll.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0

 

[anaesthetic]

.

 

[Goro]

I wonder what goes through these idiot savants' brains when they're eating a burrito, kimchee, cheese blintzes or cabbage and corned beef???????

I had to check the URL to make sure I wasn't reading The Onion. I wasn't.

 

[Willy38]

I cannot possibly make this stuff up!!
Look!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/us/oberlin-takes-culture-war-to-the-dining-hall.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=wide&state=standard&contentPlacement=1&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/us/oberlin-takes-culture-war-to-the-dining-hall.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0

this is hilarious. Can't be real. If they war on pizza, I can't handle it.

 

[skinnylion]

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[skinnylion]

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[skinnylion]

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[Psai]

I cannot possibly make this stuff up!!
Look!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/us/oberlin-takes-culture-war-to-the-dining-hall.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=wide&state=standard&contentPlacement=1&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/us/oberlin-takes-culture-war-to-the-dining-hall.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0

To be fair, a lot of sushi made by non-japanese is pretty terrible to the point of being unrecognizable

 

[NotWayneBrady]

Except for all the bleeding hearts when they grow up and realize the world doesn't run on butterfly kisses and rainbows.

Bleeding heart is a hilarious concept. Hey everyone, let's make people feel bad for giving a **** about others! HA. That'll show them.

To be fair, a lot of sushi made by non-japanese is pretty terrible to the point of being unrecognizable

I've definitely had some sushi before that warranted civil action.

 

[skinnylion]

To be fair, a lot of sushi made by non-japanese is pretty terrible to the point of being unrecognizable

I want to say some things but I'd like to not jeopardize a potential medical school acceptance and plus maybe you guys are sometimes right it's like if I had spent more time in college with science people and less time in college hanging out with SJW literature majors and slackers who now annoy other people professionally for their jobs I'd probably be in residency right now so there you go

 

[skinnylion]

I am def starting to see the light dear santa I have been extra good this year and not pissed anyone off recently for no reason please let me into medical school

 

[jw3600]

"Last week, Oberlin’s black student union issued a list of demands to campus administrators, which include the creation of segregated safe spaces for black students on campus, and an annual 4 percent increase in black student enrollment.

“These are demands and not suggestions,” the document read. “If these demands are not taken seriously, immediate action from the Africana community will follow.”"

Are they literally threatening admissions offices now....

These colleges need to go the way of chik filet and just do what they believe and have the confidence to stand by it.

^not that I agree with chik filets stance on gay marriage but I was impressed by their willingness to put it out there and deal with some backlash and loss of revenue.

 

[jw3600]

I am def starting to see the light dear santa I have been extra good this year and not pissed anyone off recently for no reason please let me into medical school

This isn't Twitter. Stop garbage posting.

 

[skinnylion]

This isn't Twitter. Stop garbage posting.

The posts I deleted had real content that's why I deleted them. By the way I agree with Chick Filet's stance on hiring 14 year olds -- just kidding. I think what the SJW's are doing is important actually I just don't want to get involved. I live in a red state and I don't want to be caught on the wrong side of the issue so I'm just going to stop speaking up basically. It's like this -- I can help more underserved patients who live in complete poverty if I shut my mouth, actually get accepted to medical school, avoid any discussions of politics of any kind, marry someone who also wants to do good work, make some dinners for him, and don't complain than if I try to tell anyone anything I actually think about anything.

In conclusion: yes sir I will stop posting garbage for you.

 

[Slack3r]

I want to say some things but I'd like to not jeopardize a potential medical school acceptance and plus maybe you guys are sometimes right it's like if I had spent more time in college with science people and less time in college hanging out with SJW literature majors and slackers who now annoy other people professionally for their jobs I'd probably be in residency right now so there you go

Maybe if you learn to use commas or periods you'll have better luck.

 

[lodestar]

Are YOU willing to have major surgery performed on you, or on someone very close to you, by a surgeon whose overarching acceptance criterion was PC, Affirmative Action goals? Are YOU willing to give up your place in a medical school class to one well less qualified in the name of supposed "social justice"?

Until you are, you have not accepted the illegitimacy of AA.

 

[lodestar]

re:
not that I agree with chik filets stance on gay marriage but I was impressed by their willingness to put it out there and deal with some backlash and loss of revenue.

~~~~~~

Actually, Chick-fil-A's sales and business increased nicely after the kerfuffle and would-be bad press

 

[el_duderino]

I'm willing to be operated on by someone who has passed the USMLE and then their surgical licensing exam without regard to their color.

 

[Baller MD]

I'm willing to be operated on by someone who has passed the USMLE and then their surgical licensing exam without regard to their color.

I'd rather be operated on by someone who excelled on their USMLE.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'd rather be operated on by someone who excelled on their USMLE.

Because you don't know any better

 

[Baller MD]

Because you don't know any better

Nah because I DO know better. And that's just my opinion.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Nah because I DO know better. And that's just my opinion.

Va Hopeful was saying that test scores and surgical competence are two different things.

 

[Baller MD]

Va Hopeful was saying that test scores and surgical competence are two different things.

Of course they are. But why outright ignore USMLEs? Why do surgery programs want students with high USMLEs? Why can't my preferred surgeon be both surgically competent AND have high step scores?

 

[getdown]

Of course they are. But why outright ignore USMLEs? Why do surgery programs want students with high USMLEs? Why can't my preferred surgeon be both surgically competent AND have high step scores?

1. Programs take students with high USMLEs because it's a good predictor that they'll pass their boards. No program wants kids that can't pass their boards.
2. Surgery is a technical skill that needs to be learned. You can memorize all the anatomy and be able to regurgitate a surgical procedure from start to finish but that doesn't make you a good surgeon. CT surgery PAs do a better job harvesting the saphenous from the leg than most residents because they do that every day for years. Would they have a high STEP1 score? Maybe but probably not. Plus once you make it to residency no one cares what your STEP scores are. They just want to know you're a hard worker.

 

[el_duderino]

Who asks their surgeon their Step 1 score before going into the OR?

 

[Baller MD]

Lol. I never said surgery competency isn't important. Again, why is it absurd that I want a surgeon who is technically competent AND has a high step score?

 

[el_duderino]

Lol. I never said surgery competency isn't important. Again, why is it absurd that I want a surgeon who is technically competent AND has a high step score?

Because the implications are that surgical competency is related to Step scores and that it's possible to know your surgeon's Step scores.

 

[Psai]

High step scores lead to matching at stronger residency programs which means better training which leads to higher competency

 

[username456789]

High step scores lead to matching at stronger residency programs which means better training which leads to higher competency

Stop score-shaming.

#yesallSTEPscores

#passingscoresmatter

 

[jqueb29]

Stop score-shaming.

#yesallSTEPscores

#passingscoresmatter

They should lower the minimum passing score too! Anybody who studies 40 hours a week for Step deserves to earn a living score.

 

[Wordead]

Because the implications are that surgical competency is related to Step scores and that it's possible to know your surgeon's Step scores.

Of course it's related. Why do you think ENTs are the best surgeons?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

High step scores lead to matching at stronger residency programs which means better training which leads to higher competency

Maybe, maybe not. One of the trends I'm hearing the local surgeons complain about is that residents from the major academic centers are often not as good at the bread and butter cases. Being good at say a Whipple is great, but in most practices they would rather the surgeon who can do a lap chole in 15 minutes compared to an hour. Often times the programs that many consider great don't give much exposure to the simple cases. After all, you honestly don't need a huge number of hernia repairs or appendectomies to be competent at them. You do, however, usually need a good number to be good and fast, which is what you want.

 

[Psai]

Maybe, maybe not. One of the trends I'm hearing the local surgeons complain about is that residents from the major academic centers are often not as good at the bread and butter cases. Being good at say a Whipple is great, but in most practices they would rather the surgeon who can do a lap chole in 15 minutes compared to an hour. Often times the programs that many consider great don't give much exposure to the simple cases. After all, you honestly don't need a huge number of hernia repairs or appendectomies to be competent at them. You do, however, usually need a good number to be good and fast, which is what you want.

I know, there's a lot of factors like the amount of handholding, case mix, operative time, etc. all makes a difference. I'm not sure whether I should go to a place with few fellows and high autonomy or a big name place that provides lots of cases but attendings hover more.