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Yale Surgery lost accreditation

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by anais, May 1, 2002.

  1. anais

    anais Junior Member

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    here is all I know about this so far:
    i'm shocked, I really am, especially because its Yale.

    --- AMSA LAD <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Hi Folks,
    >
    > I confirmed today that the Yale surgical program has
    > LOST its ACGME
    > accreditation beginning in July 2003 (these things
    > are done a year ahead of
    > time). Supposedly, poor teaching and excessive
    > work hours were two of the
    > reasons cited, but no confirmation on that yet.
    >
    > We were able to get a few reporters to pick up this
    > story, so look out for
    > an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education
    > soon. This will probably
    > get picked up by a lot of other papers as well since
    > this is Yale we are
    > talking about. Its a program that has been losing
    > residents over the past
    > few years because of poor working conditions.
    > Considering the ACGME doesn't
    > crack down this hard on virtually anyone, this is
    > really quite a striking
    > development.
    >
    > Yale has a chance to redeem themselves by next year,
    > and get their
    > accreditation back, but all my sources feel its
    > unlikely to happen.
    > Incredible!
    >
    > --Rob
    >
    > _________________________________________________
    > Robert S. Levy
    > Voice 703.620.6600 ext.
    > 211
    > American Medical Student Association Fax
    > 703.620.5873
    > Legislative Affairs Director
    > Pager 888.326.6893
    > 1902 Association Drive
    > email [email protected]
    > <[email protected]>
    > Reston, VA 20191-1502 Web
    > <http://www.amsa.org>
    >
     
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  3. Pilot Doc

    Pilot Doc SDN Angel
    Moderator Emeritus 15+ Year Member

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    A similar thread ran about two weeks ago. The consensus from people at Yale was that the program was in trouble but not in danger of losing accreditation.

    Can you point us toward some authoritative source to confirm this?
     
  4. johnM

    johnM Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pilot Doc:
    <strong>A similar thread ran about two weeks ago. The consensus from people at Yale was that the program was in trouble but not in danger of losing accreditation.

    Can you point us toward some authoritative source to confirm this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If anyone is interested, it was discussed <a href="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001736" target="_blank">here.</a>
     
  5. njbmd

    njbmd Guest
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by anais:
    <strong>here is all I know about this so far:
    i'm shocked, I really am, especially because its Yale.

    --- AMSA LAD &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:
    &gt; Hi Folks,
    &gt;
    &gt; I confirmed today that the Yale surgical program has
    &gt; LOST its ACGME
    &gt; accreditation beginning in July 2003 (these things
    &gt; are done a year ahead of
    &gt; time). Supposedly, poor teaching and excessive
    &gt; work hours were two of the
    &gt; reasons cited, but no confirmation on that yet.
    &gt;
    &gt; We were able to get a few reporters to pick up this
    &gt; story, so look out for
    &gt; an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education
    &gt; soon. This will probably
    &gt; get picked up by a lot of other papers as well since
    &gt; this is Yale we are
    &gt; talking about. Its a program that has been losing
    &gt; residents over the past
    &gt; few years because of poor working conditions.
    &gt; Considering the ACGME doesn't
    &gt; crack down this hard on virtually anyone, this is
    &gt; really quite a striking
    &gt; development.
    &gt;
    &gt; Yale has a chance to redeem themselves by next year,
    &gt; and get their
    &gt; accreditation back, but all my sources feel its
    &gt; unlikely to happen.
    &gt; Incredible!
    &gt;
    &gt; --Rob
    &gt;
    &gt; _________________________________________________
    &gt; Robert S. Levy
    &gt; Voice 703.620.6600 ext.
    &gt; 211
    &gt; American Medical Student Association Fax
    &gt; 703.620.5873
    &gt; Legislative Affairs Director
    &gt;</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi there,
    There are a fair number of excellent General Surgery programs that were placed on probation mostly because of resident working hours. In a great program like Yale's, the faculty will step up to the plate and get the problems taken care of before the program loses accreditation.

    If a program loses accreditation, Medicare and Medicaid funds are withdrawn from the hospital. This is the main federal funding source for graduate medical education in this country. Most good programs will get the situation fixed; the program will be reviewed by the accrediting agency and probationary status will be lifted.

    Howard University lost their OB-Gyn program and has radiology, emergency medicine, family practice, pathology, pediatrics and pulmonary medicine on probation. If the problems are not fixed, Howard loses federal funding(their major source of income since they are inner city). On the other hand, Howard's General Surgery residency program received a 100% pass rating by the accrediting agency and is the least malignant surgical program in Washington, DC.

    The take-home lesson here is that you have to do some major research beyond US News and World report before you apply for residency. Even an excellent program can have problems that you have to take the time to ferret out before you waste money going for interviews.

    Other surgery programs that were cited for too many resident hours were University of Maryland and GW. Hopkins did some clever reporting and managed to avoid being cited but speaking with the residents off record, the program is pretty intensive from a time standpoint.
     
  6. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Scary as hell. But it's heartening to note that the RRC does put muscle behind its name. About a month ago a place where I interviewed asked how my program was, about having the mandatory 24-hour period once a week off. I informed the PD that initially the interns would work a solid ten-week period (that's two and a half months, for heaven's sake!) to "get the hang of the system" without a day's respite. I'm glad that I didn't add my own caveat to the facts. She responded that her own program did similarly, but only for a month's period, and then added that she didn't think it was in violation of the RRC guidelines. Oh no? News to me. This kind of abuse (and there is no genteel way of saying otherwise) must stop. It's incredibly inhumane. And, in the long run, counter-productive.

    I applaud the RRC's ruling in Yale's case. It's a wakeup call to programs that support this kind of inhumanity.

    'Nuff said.
     
  7. arraks

    arraks Junior Member

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    is there some place where you can find info about programs on probation or this a word of mouth sort of thing? just wondering about other specialties besides surgery. any help would be appreciated as I am going through the match this coming year.
     
  8. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member
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    Goto acgme.org and you can search by sponsoring institutions. This is cut and paste to what they sale about Yale's General Surgery program:

    From ACGME:

    Original Accreditation Date:
    Accreditation Status: Accreditation Withdrawn
    Accreditation Effective Date: June 30, 2003
    Accredited Length: 5 years

    Program Format: Standard

    Last Site Review Date: July 24, 2001
    Next Site Review Date (approximate): August 7, 2002

    Program Requires Prior or Additional GME Training: NO
    Program Requires Dedicated Research Year: NO
    Program Participates in National Resident Matching Program: YES

    Number of MD/DO Teaching Staff Whose Primary Responsibility is Resident Education: 2
    Governement Affiliation: Veterans Administration

    So it looks like it's true. The site doesn't give a lot of information though.
     
  9. Juice

    Juice Junior Member
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    Hey,
    I posted the original message about this the day it was announced. Yale already was on probation since its incorporation of the Bridgeport program. I do not think that they will lose their program, but this will cause dramatic changes in the program which it needs. First off, and sorry current residents of Yale, but Yale has never been a top notch surgery program despite the name Yale. Some other residency programs at Yale are indeed very good, but the proximity of NYC and Boston take the nuts away from Yale. However, there are a few big name surgeons at the program. Currently Yale is looking to hire 16-20 PA's to pick up the slack and cut down resident hours. The RRC is taking a very strong arm this year. There are a few bills in several state legislatures that would legally limit hours to 80/week and 24/shift, as well as at least one federal proposal. Baystate, a small program in MA just got cited and dropped 30% of the attendings from housestaff coverage. The RRC is also trying to make surgery residency a lot more attractive. There has been dramatic drops in the number of recent grads applying to surgery. It use to be AOA and 230+ would not get an interview at a some top notch programs. Now, simply a few clinical honors and above average boards gets an interview. This is all potentially good for those wishing to go into surgery. Hours worked will decrease tremendously over the next few years. Scut work will likely get picked up by PA's and FNPs. This message is getting longwinded, and in closing from my own experience Yale is not a place you would want to do a surgery residency regardless of the recent problems. This is especially true in light of the situation. When you do interview, you will see many familiar faces at the programs you look at. Ask lots of questions about the inside scoop of programs. Anyways, New Haven is a dump....
     
  10. Jamie Metcalf-Kelly

    Jamie Metcalf-Kelly New Member

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    I am not at all suprised by th ACGME's withdrawal of accreditation of Yale's surgery program. It is an attempt on the part of ACGME to misrepresent itself as an effective enforcer of accreditation violations for the benefit of the U.S. Congress. This is because of HR 3236 (the Physician and Patient Safety Act) which has been introduced in the House to regulate by law resident hours( among other things). The ACGME is terrified that a governmental agency will be given the legal right to oversee residency programs insuring compliance with hours and other work conditions. So ACGME removes accreditation from a very recognized program like Yale that will get lots of visibility in the media etc. As we all know the ACGME cares little about work conditions or true compliance with their so-called "reguirements" which are after voluntary with no enforcement . If you are not familiar with HR 3236 , get familiar by visiting the AMSA website. This is a vital concern for any doctor at any level of training. If we don't educate ourselves and work to change the backward way in which we are forced to train, the system will never change. j. metcalf-kelly m.d.
     

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