yes, ANOTHER question about osteopathy

[anxietypeaker]

hello everyone,

Just a few questions about the osteopathic life.

1) Do most DOs work with only DOs in group practice? Do most MDs work with only MDs in group practice? Also, how difficult is it to find a DO group practice thats hiring (in a nonrural area)?

2) I know its difficult EXTREMELY (ie almost shut out) to do get a residency in several specialties...how difficult is it to get SOME/ANY/EASIER (ie ob/gyn, general?) type of surgical specialty? I know ortho/opth/neuro are literally out of my field (or galaxy). What would be really useful would be a GENERAL ranking of the competitiveness of the surgical specialties (i realize many will be the same rank which is fine).

3) Whether youre a surgeon/primary care phys, how difficult is it to work in an urban/subruban (NOT rural) area? If there is a difference in difficulty b/t a surgeon and pcp, please specify.

Thanks everyone.

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[Megalofyia]

If you are a DO you're a doctor.
Some work in groups with other DOs some work in groups with MDs too. Some MDs work in groups with just MDs; some work in groups with DOs too. Some DOs and some MDs just work alone.

Getting into a residency is going to depend on your board scores, LORs, and where you chose to apply. There are DOs in every field of medicine. Fields that are competative for MDs are competative for DOs too. Some programs wont take DOs but then none of tha AOA residencies take MDs.

There are DOs that work in towns, small cities and large cities. Just pick a location.

There is a large difference between a surgeon and a pcp. PCPs see lots of germy patients who are very snotty. Surgeons cut people open to fix them. Their patients have a lot harder time passing their germs on.
Other than cities tend to have more hospitals, and thus locations to do surgery, than rural areas it doesn't matter. If you want to be a PCP in a suburban area it's up to you.

 

[anxietypeaker]

how competitive is OB/GYN to get? Its just that the MD forums tell you which specialties are competitive/ranking/etc. http://www.studentdoctor.net/guide/medstudent/specialties/geriatrics.html

 

[Megalofyia]

how competitive is OB/GYN to get? Its just that the MD forums tell you which specialties are competitive/ranking/etc. http://www.studentdoctor.net/guide/medstudent/specialties/geriatrics.html

It looks like it's of low competition to get into ob/gyn.

 

[(nicedream)]

]

2) I know its difficult EXTREMELY (ie almost shut out) to do get a residency in several specialties...how difficult is it to get SOME/ANY/EASIER (ie ob/gyn, general?) type of surgical specialty? I know ortho/opth/neuro are literally out of my field (or galaxy). What would be really useful would be a GENERAL ranking of the competitiveness of the surgical specialties (i realize many will be the same rank which is fine).

Neuro is certainly not shut out, it's competitiveness has slipped greatly recently. Orth is not shut out to DOs, there are quite a few AOA programs. There are AOA ophtho programs, although ophtho is certainly one of the hardest specialties for a DO to match in - others include rad. onc. and plastic surgery. In general, the competitiveness of specialties for DOs mirrors the competitiveness for MDs (in terms of ranking the specialties in difficulty of matching).
Some of the information on that link is rather outdated by the way (radiology low competitiveness...not quite).

 

[anxietypeaker]

neuro isnt competitive????? wait...were talking about neurosurgery or neurology...im pretty sure neurosurg is in the "shut out" range

 

[Megalofyia]

neuro isnt competitive????? wait...were talking about neurosurgery or neurology...im pretty sure neurosurg is in the "shut out" range

I wouldn't say shut out as I know DO neurosurgeons.

 

[OSUdoc08]

neuro isnt competitive????? wait...were talking about neurosurgery or neurology...im pretty sure neurosurg is in the "shut out" range

Not sure how, since there are AOA neurosurgery residencies:

Arrowhead Regional Medical Center Neurological Surgery Colton CA
BroMenn Regional Med Ctr Neurological Surgery Bloomington IL
Garden City Hospital Neurological Surgery Garden City MI
Pontiac Osteopathic Hosp Med Center (POH) Neurological Surgery Pontiac MI
St Barnabas Medical Center Neurological Surgery Livingston NJ
NYCOM/Long Isl Jewish Med Ctr Neurological Surgery New Hyde Park NY
OUCOM/Doctors Hospital Neurological Surgery Columbus OH
Grandview Hosp & Medical Ctr Neurological Surgery Dayton OH
Philadelphia College Osteopathic Medicine Neurological Surgery Philadelphia PA

 

[anxietypeaker]

well...it seems that ive been corrected (which actually makes me happy

then out of curiosity how well do you need to do on the boards (COMPLEX) in terms of percentile and rank in class?

I know these are specific questions, but a general number would be nice, if feasible.

Thanks everyone.

 

[DrMom]

Can't answer the boards/class rank question because the answer depends on what specialty you end up going into. Best advice is to do as well as you can while remaining sane.

 

[Megalofyia]

Can't answer the boards/class rank question because the answer depends on what specialty you end up going into. Best advice is to do as well as you can while remaining sane.

This is assuming one is sane before entering med school?

 

[DrMom]

This is assuming one is sane before entering med school?

well, think of it as trying to maintain what you started with.

 

[anxietypeaker]

the percentile/rank question referred to getting into ANY one of the following:
general surgery
neurosurgery
cardiothoracic surgery
vascular surg
ortho surg
opthalm
urology
thoracic surg
plastics
otolargn

sorry about that (so in other words, leaving out colon/rectal and ob/gyn)

 

[DrMom]

the percentile/rank question referred to getting into ANY one of the following:
general surgery
neurosurgery
cardiothoracic surgery
vascular surg
ortho surg
opthalm
urology
thoracic surg
plastics
otolargn

sorry about that (so in other words, leaving out colon/rectal and ob/gyn)

for that list: do as well as you can. You'll need good rank & boards. General surg won't need quite as high. Keep in mind that some of the things that you listed are fellowships that are done after a gen'l surgery residency.

Anyone giving you actualy numbers would simply be making things up. There are too many variables in this process.

 

[(nicedream)]

the percentile/rank question referred to getting into ANY one of the following:
general surgery
neurosurgery
cardiothoracic surgery
vascular surg
ortho surg
opthalm
urology
thoracic surg
plastics
otolargn

sorry about that (so in other words, leaving out colon/rectal and ob/gyn)

CT surgery, vascular surgery, and thoracic surgery are fellowships - you do a general surgery residency and then apply for fellowship.
For all of those fields you listed other than gen surg, you would have to be EXTREMELY competitive to get an ACGME spot - very good USMLE scores, audition rotations, great clinical grades and letters etc. Other than Gen Surg, only 2 or 3 DOs per year match into those ACGME programs. For neurosurgery - ZERO. To see how many AOA programs there are for each specialty, check out http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/search/search.cfm?searchType=1. ACGME Gen Surg is also tough for DOs - not as difficult as those others, but stil tough.

 

[anxietypeaker]

I think if i end up in a DO school I wouldnt have too much of a problem (not in difficulty but in desire) doing an AOA residency and not a ACGME in one of those fields. In other words, id be ECSTATIC to get any of those residencies in the list that are AOA, let alone ACGME.

Does that change how difficult it is to get the residency?

 

[bones]

hello everyone,

Just a few questions about the osteopathic life.

1) Do most DOs work with only DOs in group practice? Do most MDs work with only MDs in group practice? Also, how difficult is it to find a DO group practice thats hiring (in a nonrural area)?

2) I know its difficult EXTREMELY (ie almost shut out) to do get a residency in several specialties...how difficult is it to get SOME/ANY/EASIER (ie ob/gyn, general?) type of surgical specialty? I know ortho/opth/neuro are literally out of my field (or galaxy). What would be really useful would be a GENERAL ranking of the competitiveness of the surgical specialties (i realize many will be the same rank which is fine).

3) Whether youre a surgeon/primary care phys, how difficult is it to work in an urban/subruban (NOT rural) area? If there is a difference in difficulty b/t a surgeon and pcp, please specify.

Thanks everyone.

1) No. something like 5-10% of physicians are DOs, so naturally most MD's work with MD's (since 9/10 of their selection is MD's, 9/10 of those they hire will be MD's). DO's sometimes choose to work together, but its really an individual choice. Its rare to find either group exclusive. You and other physicians want smart competent fun colleagues that will complement the work you do, and the initials after their name are less important.

2) I dont know which specialties you are referring to. So far as i know, derm is the only specialty it is more difficult to be admitted to as a DO. That said, there is a DO-only residency in derm right here in kirksville. The vast majority of specialties will select based on your knowledge, charisma, and connections (and grades)- and while some of the most competitive may prefer grads from tier 1 medical schools over tier 3, the initials after your name are a non-issue.

Generally, skill at OMM is certainly a selling point on your resume, but will be balanced against the rest of your profile, and will make you more competetive for some residency programs in ways that MD's cannot compete. Also, the osteopathic match program does not let MD's in, which many MD's consider unfair- since this means DO's are much more likely to find a residency in their specialty of choice than MD's.

3) this does depend on where you live, however- there is such a massive shortage of physicians in most areas of the country that nurses, chiropractors and psychologists winning increased practice rights to cover for so many medically underserved. Unemployment will not be an issue, regardless of specialty.