Yeshiva U Masters or Doctorate at Alliant/CSPP San Francisco

[psychsebs]

Hi all,

This is my situation: I applied for the PsyD at Yeshiva University, after receiving no interview I figured that when I got an envelope in the mail that it was a rejection, however it was an acceptance to the MA program in Mental Health Counseling stating that I would be guaranteed an interview for the doctoral program.

A few minutes prior, I received a phone call from Alliant International/CSPP at San Francisco (where I was last Friday) stating that I got into their PsyD program.

There are several pros and cons and I'm very confused as to what to do, any help would be appreciated!!:

Pros Yeshiva:
- nyc
- better reputation
- closer to home (I'm Toronto based, graduate of the University of Toronto)
- easy access to kosher food
- possibility to gain acceptance to my first choice program

Cons Yeshiva:
- the new masters is possibly 2.5 years, am inquiring as to whether the extra courses can be completed in the summer
- 2/2.5 years = masters; alliant 4 years = masters/psyd
- no guarantee I'll gain admittance to the doctoral program
- more debt with more years of education

Pros Alliant:
- masters plus doctoral in 4 years
- san francisco is amazing
- better weather

Cons Alliant:
- much farther from home
- from what I've read on here, not the best reputation
- more difficult to meet people

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[clinpsy18]

Hey,
I've already pm'd you, but I think that it may make sense for you to wait a year and reapply, instead of accruing all that debt for the master's which you don't really want. If you choose the other option and go for the Alliant PsyD, that's 5 years of your life. . . if that sounds good to you, then you're fine! But PsyD programs are big commitments, so you have to know that you'll be happy.

 

[deleted176373]

Look above and ask yourself...

"Do I think there is a bias against some of the professional schools?"


Mark

 

[psychsebs]

What I'd like to know, is for those of you who selected 'neither', why do you think that?

 

[psy86]

What I'd like to know, is for those of you who selected 'neither', why do you think that?

I selected 'neither.' My personal opinion is that most people in this situation would be better served by getting into a fully funded program or getting into another line of work. (However, if you are independently wealthy, have a large trust fund, or some other exceptional circumstance, knock yourself out!)

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

CSPP's PsyD program is more realistically 5 years, not 4. Also, the $150,000 you will incur in debt is not worth it. The school's reputation is quickly going down the toilet.

 

[Prophecy]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=498972

 

[callmebruce]

I think it's important to figure out what you ultimately want to do with your degree and what your realistic options are.

Of course, many people on this board are going to choose "neither" in preference for some fabulous fully funded PhD program at some top school. But the question is whether that is a realistic option for you - can you boost your GRE and/or experience levels to get into a better program and do you have the time to wait. Also, given your goals is it necessary to get into that dream school or will an APA approved program that is solid enough suffice.

Also, since you've visited both schools personally you should listen to your own instincts - did they seem like a good fit for you? Were there any red flags? How did other students and applicants seem, the faculty and so on.

 

[Prophecy]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=505569

 

[callmebruce]

Neither of these programs are a viable option.

Certainly not for you. But plenty of people graduate from these programs and go on to have successful careers, at least that is true of CSPP. I have no personal knowledge of Yeshiva, but the OP said that was their top choice. In fact, I know of excellent practicing psychologists who are graduates of CSPP.

 

[deleted176373]

This is interesting, but not sure how old it is. *Update: Linked data is 10 years old*

http://www.cspprofile.com/prod.html#SURVEY


Website itself was from summer of 2002 by angry students.

http://www.cspprofile.com/

 

[callmebruce]

Yes, I've seen that site too. But with everything on the open web I took it with a grain of salt. The web site creator takes the most inflammatory statements to single out. And if you look at his own survey data you find this:

Students were generally satisfied with their program (mean = 2.865).

At every opportunity the website tries to word things in the worst possible way. Yet, the hard numerical data shows that students were generally satisfied with the program, not dissatisfied as the website tries to imply.

So, yes, it's an interesting site. But how should I know whether the creator didn't have his own axe to grind, that he wasn't some disgruntled student who got a bad grade or something.

And as you point out the data is about 10 years old.

 

[psychsebs]

03-18-2008 11:28 PM psy86 Quote:
Originally Posted by psychsebs
What I'd like to know, is for those of you who selected 'neither', why do you think that?

I selected 'neither.' My personal opinion is that most people in this situation would be better served by getting into a fully funded program or getting into another line of work. (However, if you are independently wealthy, have a large trust fund, or some other exceptional circumstance, knock yourself out!)

right but that might not be an option, getting into a fully-funded program. Don't get me wrong, that would be amazing but I'm not 100% sure how realistic that might be.

 

[psychsebs]

callmebruce
Junior Member

Status: Pre-Psychology
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10

I think it's important to figure out what you ultimately want to do with your degree and what your realistic options are.

Of course, many people on this board are going to choose "neither" in preference for some fabulous fully funded PhD program at some top school. But the question is whether that is a realistic option for you - can you boost your GRE and/or experience levels to get into a better program and do you have the time to wait. Also, given your goals is it necessary to get into that dream school or will an APA approved program that is solid enough suffice.

Also, since you've visited both schools personally you should listen to your own instincts - did they seem like a good fit for you? Were there any red flags? How did other students and applicants seem, the faculty and so on.

me: I'm heading to yeshiva this weekend to check it out so I'll hopefully have a better idea by Monday.

Ultimately I want to become a clinical psychologist who does therapy as well as assessments. Best case scenario I'd be teaching as well at a university and doing a little bit of clinical research.

and yes that's my worry about neither because I might not be able to get into a fully-funded program.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

And as you point out the data is about 10 years old.

Yes, but 10 years later, the same stuff is going on and students are saying the exact same things.

 

[callmebruce]

Yes, but 10 years later, the same stuff is going on and students are saying the exact same things.

Could be. Can you elaborate? How do you come to know this? Also, as a working psychologist in CA, I'm curious to know where you got your degree, what you thought of your school or other schools. I'm in the SF Bay Area now and in the midst of the admissions process so anything you think would be helpful is welcome. Thx.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

I went to CSPP and every alumni and former instructor I know agrees with me - the place is a diploma mill that strives to make money, not serve students.

 

[erg923]

This is also how they are seen in the bay area. Deserved or not (psydgrrrl seems to back it up though). The bay area is packed with schools and psych students. Argosy and CSPP psychology are at the bottom of the barrel. A student on one of the other threads commented that CSPP actually encourages CAPIC internships over APA. Why would a program encourage students to limit their future careers and opportunities for post-docs. That is just beyond me!! Never even heard of CIIS. Sounds like they are into a different kind of thing, so those students prob don't have the same kinds of practicums alot of tradition all programs do.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

A student on one of the other threads commented that CSPP actually encourages CAPIC internships over APA.

I can't verify this, because when I was a student, they pushed us to apply for APA internships (as it makes the program look better if more students get APA internships).

 

[erg923]

Yes....well maybe I should take that back some....what the other poster said was they "talk up" CAPIC....rather than APA internships now days. Leading me to believe that they are approving of students seeking out the lowest common denominator of internship training sites. (i.e., the quality of training and faculty are typically lower at CAPIC sites, and it prevents future attainment of many positions and post-docs if you didn't go to an APA approved internship). Just doesn't sound like appropriate career gudance to me. Of course, CAPIC can be appropriate for some people, and don't think its evil or anything, but I i think its is just a good demonstration of the mindset at diploma mill programs.

Obviously, Psydgrrrl is a success though and I'm sure she is wonderful clinician. So I guess CSPP cant be all that bad

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

Obviously, Psydgrrrl is a success though and I'm sure she is wonderful clinician. So I guess CSPP cant be all that bad

Ha ha, thanks But I always say, I learned most of what I know outside of grad school. I had a few great profs at CSPP, but it was so hit-or-miss, and you don't get a refund for a ****ty, substandard course. I took extra time to get through the program so that I could get more training in the field (extra practicum, half-time and full-time internships, two postdocs) because really, no matter where you go to school, you really learn the most in practice, not in class.

 

[JR in SB]

not 4. Also, the $150,000 you will incur in debt is not worth it.

And its much more than that given living expenses, correct?

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

And its much more than that given living expenses, correct?

Correct. Especially if you try to live in SF, then you might as well tack on another $100k.