Yet another new school. In California. Imagine that.

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Jackie B said:
I'm in Los Angeles and the market seems to be great here.
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omg i just saw this now...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

omg i'm laughing like a little girl
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Jackie B said:
I would definitely take the less pay to work in a hospital. I think I would do it even if it's that much of a difference (altough I don't think it's like that here in LA). I'd rather work in a hospital so I can get myself involved in research and continue to learn. I think it'd be interested to work in clinical trials (if for whatever the reason the PharmD doesn't work out for me, I would like to go into clinical research management with just the BA).

I'm sorry for you guys who live in saturated areas. I'm in Los Angeles and the market seems to be great here. Like I said, I searched indeed and there are a LOT of openings (search my zip code: 91040 - within 25 miles). The only pharmacy schools we have in the area are USC and Western....if you go 100-150 miles south you run into UCSD and Loma Linda which don't produce many students each. The next closest one is Univ of Pacific which is frickin 350 miles up north. LA, OC, SD, Riverside....and somewhat Ventura county....these are frickin jam-packed counties in Southern California that continue to grow.

The point of this thread was to comment on the new schools in CA. I searched indeed for the number of pharmacist openings in the whole state and there's about 3,650. Let's be extremely generous and say 2,000 of them are real/valid. How many pharm students does CA produce every year right now? 500ish? If that's the case, every new grad this year already has 4 jobs waiting for them EACH.
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Are you on crack? I live in Los Angeles and I'm a 4th year pharmacy student. I WISH I could say the same. There are no jobs in SoCal right now! My classmates can't even find jobs, and we're graduating in less than 2 months! I'm sure the job openings you're looking at are the ones that require at least 1-3 years of clinical experience. And you're thinking about going into hospital? Most hospitals in LA don't even have the budget to hire new grads. They would rather hire their own residents, and that's IF you can get into residency these days. I don't know where you've been searching. This year California will produce 800+ new pharmacists. You also didn't take into account that many Southern Californians who go to pharmacy school in NorCal or out-of-state are planning to come back and practice in California (Thank the NAPLEX for that one). Explains why the LA market is sooo saturated. I have only one job lined up for me in Central Cal and that's considered lucky. =P
 
rxstudent13 said:
Are you on crack? I live in Los Angeles and I'm a 4th year pharmacy student. I WISH I could say the same. There are no jobs in SoCal right now! My classmates can't even find jobs, and we're graduating in less than 2 months! I'm sure the job openings you're looking at are the ones that require at least 1-3 years of clinical experience. And you're thinking about going into hospital? Most hospitals in LA don't even have the budget to hire new grads. They would rather hire their own residents, and that's IF you can get into residency these days. I don't know where you've been searching. This year California will produce 800+ new pharmacists. You also didn't take into account that many Southern Californians who go to pharmacy school in NorCal or out-of-state are planning to come back and practice in California (Thank the NAPLEX for that one). Explains why the LA market is sooo saturated. I have only one job lined up for me in Central Cal and that's considered lucky. =P
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yup, exactly this. i'm currently a 3rd year living in LA. where do you go to school?

most hospitals in the area won't look at you if you don't have the experience and/or a residency. and residencies are very tough to match nowadays also.
 
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abc1234567 said:
Oh yeah now you have to be racist to prevent saturation
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It's not racist to hope that an individual who has taken the time to go through a four or three year professional program has the ability to communicate properly. Many schools have a list of missions and goals, most if not all state that they want to create graduates with professional character. Proper communication skills, such as speaking the local language, falls into this category.

Furthermore, it's within the interest of all individuals who want to pursue the career of pharmacy that education standards not fall. Even if that means we start, or return, to judging an individual by their full capabilities, such as speaking English correctly.

What drhenPharmD stated is not racist, all that was said was that there are some asian women who speak English marginally, not all asian women. I find it really shocking that a lot of individuals think that it is taboo to judge a person on their language proficiency. We are in a field of professionals, it's just another trait in a long list that individuals, including customers may look at.
 
Lasagna said:
It's not racist to hope that an individual who has taken the time to go through a four or three year professional program has the ability to communicate properly. Many schools have a list of missions and goals, most if not all state that they want to create graduates with professional character. Proper communication skills, such as speaking the local language, falls into this category.

Furthermore, it's within the interest of all individuals who want to pursue the career of pharmacy that education standards not fall. Even if that means we start, or return, to judging an individual by their full capabilities, such as speaking English correctly.

What drhenPharmD stated is not racist, all that was said was that there are some asian women who speak English marginally, not all asian women. I find it really shocking that a lot of individuals think that it is taboo to judge a person on their language proficiency. We are in a field of professionals, it's just another trait in a long list that individuals, including customers may look at.
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I understand your point of view and do agree with your point that every pharmacist should have good communication skills but what I dont agree with is that his statement is not racist.I would say it was sexist and racist

First his statment implied that all asian women pharmacists cant speak english he didnt use the word "some".He is setting a precedent that oh ppl whenever you see an asian+woman+pharmacist=no english speaking skills so before the poor lady even opens her mouth everybody will think Oh she does not know how to speak english
 
abc1234567 said:
I understand your point of view and do agree with your point that every pharmacist should have good communication skills but what I dont agree with is that his statement is not racist.I would say it was sexist and racist

First his statment implied that all asian women pharmacists cant speak english he didnt use the word "some".He is setting a precedent that oh ppl whenever you see an asian+woman+pharmacist=no english speaking skills so before the poor lady even opens her mouth everybody will think Oh she does not know how to speak english
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He didn't say all, he said in large numbers, which I will agree implies more than the majority. Yet I can't help but think that his statement is not enough to set a precedent. Either way I understand where you're coming from, but I think all of us know that there are many asians+women+pharmacists who are very well versed in the English language.

In the context of the thread though his comment was just affirming another's comment about how the number of schools may affect the quality of the graduating class and thus the workforce.

If you don't agree, well you don't agree but like I said it's a bit suprising that everyone is quick to label certain things racist when it may just be someone's personal experience.
 
Jackie, when you spend two years looking for a summer internship in California after you busted your ass to get into a pharmacy school there and there is a prospect of you graduating with 0 intern hours, maybe you'll change you views. :laugh:

I'm laughing but in reality I'm depressed, feel like **** and hate my life.
 
terse said:
yup, exactly this. i'm currently a 3rd year living in LA. where do you go to school?

most hospitals in the area won't look at you if you don't have the experience and/or a residency. and residencies are very tough to match nowadays also.
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Exactly my point. If hospitals in LA are hiring, they usually want someone who's done a residency or who's worked in a hospital for X number of years. The LA job market is either very saturated or extremely compeititive.
 
lol ppl are sooooo negative on here, all my frds who graduated last year found jobs... and I just can't take anyone who says "if you get a B+ in your first therapeutics then you are ****ed" seriously, i mean common get real!
 
Deja said:
lol ppl are sooooo negative on here, all my frds who graduated last year found jobs... and I just can't take anyone who says "if you get a B+ in your first therapeutics then you are ****ed" seriously, i mean common get real!
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signature: university of Iowa

also: cannot spell "come on" or "c'mon."
see also: cannot spell out "friends"
 
time to leave california. f^&%$##%&
 
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confettiflyer said:
signature: university of Iowa

also: cannot spell "come on" or "c'mon."
see also: cannot spell out "friends"
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NVM, typed out a reply, then realized there is no point in arguing with people that have a negative mind set, keep telling people that they are screwed when they get a B in class, and correct ppls spellings on an internet fourm, hope your stright As keep you happy
 
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Deja said:
hahahahaha don't know why U R dissing University of Iowa COP when it's one of the top programs (I'm sure UR school is just soooooo much better)... and my FRDS found jobs all over the country, but whatever...at least now i know why U CANT find jobs, do U like my spelling now loser?! :laugh:
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I think he's referring to the fact that nobody wants to live in Iowa and that's why there are jobs there, not the quality of the institution.
 
tungsten87 said:
I think he's referring to the fact that nobody wants to live in Iowa and that's why there are jobs there, not the quality of the institution.
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damn it, should've edited my post before u replied :idea: actually, Iowa jobs are pretty hard to find because believe it or not, people who grew up here actually want to stay in Iowa... I just don't understand why people keeps saying that you need to get a certain grade or you are doomed, they are acting like they are the only ones in pharmacy school and other people don't know ****... but o well, I guess negative people will always be negative, especially on the internet, what can you do
 
Deja said:
NVM, typed out a reply, then realized there is no point in arguing with people that have a negative mind set, keep telling people that they are screwed when they get a B in class, and correct ppls spellings on an internet fourm, hope your stright As keep you happy
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this is why my posts are short, you don't deserve a paragraph.

and quote me when i said you need "stright" A's, have fun grab some snacks cuz it'll be a while.
 
confettiflyer said:
this is why my posts are short, you don't deserve a paragraph.

and quote me when i said you need "stright" A's, have fun grab some snacks cuz it'll be a while.
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lol my 1st post was directed to the people who said that b/c I saw it on the first few pages, since u replied, I assumed u said it, my bad, u r just an anal douche that like to "correct" other ppl to make urself feel smart
 
Deja said:
lol my 1st post was directed to the people who said that b/c I saw it on the first few pages, since u replied, I assumed u said it, my bad, u r just an anal douche that like to "correct" other ppl to make urself feel smart
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I think it's called an enema.:smuggrin:
I kid...
Seriously though, can you fight via PM, or use ignore or something.
 
Farmercyst said:
I think it's called an enema.:smuggrin:
I kid...
Seriously though, can you fight via PM, or use ignore or something.
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lol he just admitted i'm right, and that i give people a nice refreshing feeling afterwards. #winning :laugh:
 
Deja said:
lol ppl are sooooo negative on here, all my frds who graduated last year found jobs... and I just can't take anyone who says "if you get a B+ in your first therapeutics then you are ****ed" seriously, i mean common get real!
Click to expand...

Uh? You're talking about people who graduated last year. Of course, they found jobs. The Class of 2010 from my school pretty much filled up the last remaining jobs in Southern California.

Fast-forward to this year. The job market is far worse. My classmates and I are about to graduate in two months. I have classmates who still haven't found a single job in California.
 
Deja said:
lol ppl are sooooo negative on here, all my frds who graduated last year found jobs... and I just can't take anyone who says "if you get a B+ in your first therapeutics then you are ****ed" seriously, i mean common get real!
Click to expand...

Dude, who cares about grades and jobs when you type in ghetto speak. :eek:
 
rxstudent13 said:
That's because California's going down the toilet after a new governor got elected.
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yes...down the toilet...everyone who was thinking of going to CA should turn right around...

....yes....all of you, every single rumor/stereotype is true, you might even die in an earthquake while getting lava spewed on you.... :idea:
 
California went down the tubes long before the most recent Gubnor got elected. It just takes a while for a corpse that large to actually finish hitting the ground.

Particularly Southern California. "Hollywood" has been leaving for years, aerospace is long gone, and that pretty much leaves tourism as the last viable industry. Los Angeles is transitioning to its future fate: "Detroit with better weather."
 
trap said:
California went down the tubes long before the most recent Gubnor got elected. It just takes a while for a corpse that large to actually finish hitting the ground.

Particularly Southern California. "Hollywood" has been leaving for years, aerospace is long gone, and that pretty much leaves tourism as the last viable industry. Los Angeles is transitioning to its future fate: "Detroit with better weather."
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absolutely, everyone should leave the state. leave leave leave now now now.
 
trap said:
California went down the tubes long before the most recent Gubnor got elected. It just takes a while for a corpse that large to actually finish hitting the ground.

Particularly Southern California. "Hollywood" has been leaving for years, aerospace is long gone, and that pretty much leaves tourism as the last viable industry. Los Angeles is transitioning to its future fate: "Detroit with better weather."
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:laugh:
 
trap said:
California went down the tubes long before the most recent Gubnor got elected. It just takes a while for a corpse that large to actually finish hitting the ground.

Particularly Southern California. "Hollywood" has been leaving for years, aerospace is long gone, and that pretty much leaves tourism as the last viable industry. Los Angeles is transitioning to its future fate: "Detroit with better weather."
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I have to agree. California's unemployment rate is almost just as high as Detroit. It's no wonder why we have a hard time finding jobs in Southern California. The only thing we can boast about is the weather.
Hollywood's been migrating to Vancouver cuz it's so much cheaper to shoot films there. People have died in earthquakes here too.
 
actually i hope more people leave california. the damn state is clogged as it is.
 
rxstudent13 said:
I have to agree. California's unemployment rate is almost just as high as Detroit. It's no wonder why we have a hard time finding jobs in Southern California. The only thing we can boast about is the weather.
Hollywood's been migrating to Vancouver cuz it's so much cheaper to shoot films there. People have died in earthquakes here too.
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agreed........couldn find a job back home at the end of my four years out here in the midwest
 
Don't come to Tennessee. No jobs here too. My friends in the east coast tell me its out of the question to even try up there. I emailed Jeff Wadelin at [email protected].
You guys should too...maybe ACPE will START to think about what's going on. The good news is we have pharmacy schools that are on our side!
http://wvgazette.com/News/201101291475
finally some of these schools are starting to see it.
 
Lilly15 said:
Don't come to Tennessee. No jobs here too. My friends in the east coast tell me its out of the question to even try up there. I emailed Jeff Wadelin at [email protected].
You guys should too...maybe ACPE will START to think about what's going on. The good news is we have pharmacy schools that are on our side!
http://wvgazette.com/News/201101291475
finally some of these schools are starting to see it.
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What are you suggesting ACPE do about this problem?
 
It's a long shot but maybe they can STOP allowing new schools to open up. They are the ones accrediting these schools. They need to put a limit amount on the number of schools and maybe limit the number of students coming in until we experience another massive shortage of pharmacists again. You do know that five new schools are planning on opening for Fall 2012? not to mention the 4 or 5 schools opening for Fall 2011. Most of these schools are crap institutions that have no business opening a pharmacy school and know nothing about pharmacy education. What I'm wondering is what's going to happen when all these students default on their loans because they can't find jobs??? Isn't all if not most of the student loans through the federal government?
 
Lilly15 said:
It's a long shot but maybe they can STOP allowing new schools to open up. They are the ones accrediting these schools. They need to put a limit amount on the number of schools and maybe limit the number of students coming in until we experience another massive shortage of pharmacists again. You do know that five new schools are planning on opening for Fall 2012? not to mention the 4 or 5 schools opening for Fall 2011. Most of these schools are crap institutions that have no business opening a pharmacy school and know nothing about pharmacy education. What I'm wondering is what's going to happen when all these students default on their loans because they can't find jobs??? Isn't all if not most of the student loans through the federal government?
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The ACPE is in charge of accrediting the schools by looking at the quality of education. If the newer schools don't meet the standards, they won't get accredited.

What will happen with the whole student loan business? Who knows...
 
Lilly15 said:
It's a long shot but maybe they can STOP allowing new schools to open up. They are the ones accrediting these schools. They need to put a limit amount on the number of schools and maybe limit the number of students coming in until we experience another massive shortage of pharmacists again. You do know that five new schools are planning on opening for Fall 2012? not to mention the 4 or 5 schools opening for Fall 2011. Most of these schools are crap institutions that have no business opening a pharmacy school and know nothing about pharmacy education. What I'm wondering is what's going to happen when all these students default on their loans because they can't find jobs??? Isn't all if not most of the student loans through the federal government?
Click to expand...

Please use the search function. Look for confettiflyer's posts on this subject. The ACPE cannot stop new schools from opening provided they meet the standards that all other schools meet. I'm all for doing things to enhance and protect our profession, but you should educate yourself about what ACPE can actually DO before you waste time emailing them and campaigning for action that violates antitrust laws.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Please use the search function. Look for confettiflyer's posts on this subject. The ACPE cannot stop new schools from opening provided they meet the standards that all other schools meet. I'm all for doing things to enhance and protect our profession, but you should educate yourself about what ACPE can actually DO before you waste time emailing them and campaigning for action that violates antitrust laws.
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Thanks, I did. It seems to me there is plenty of pharmacy schools out there that we don't have to worry about a monopoly on pharmacy schools or competition. The pharmacy schools do not look like they are competing with each other. Schools that open charge a higher tuition than other schools. Overall, won't this actually hurt business and the economy? Higher unemployment, more students loans and students in debt? Thoughts anyone? If not, I guess we should all sit back and watch this profession sink to the ground?
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Please use the search function. Look for confettiflyer's posts on this subject. The ACPE cannot stop new schools from opening provided they meet the standards that all other schools meet. I'm all for doing things to enhance and protect our profession, but you should educate yourself about what ACPE can actually DO before you waste time emailing them and campaigning for action that violates antitrust laws.
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They can increase standards. Increase faculty ratios. With the number of schools, are they really doing a good job of making sure they meet the standards? Or are they just cashing the checks? Money can surely make people overlook things.
 
museabuse said:
They can increase standards. Increase faculty ratios. With the number of schools, are they really doing a good job of making sure they meet the standards? Or are they just cashing the checks? Money can surely make people overlook things.
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I believe they haven't done this because it would have to apply to ALL pharmacy schools, new and old. The implication is that there are some long-standing pharmacy schools who would not be able to meet the requirements if they were increased. I distinctly remember a post about this a while back. Not sure if it was confetti or someone else.

I think that increasing faculty ratios is impractical because there is already a shortage of qualified faculty. Some of the "older" pharmacy schools that have experienced problems with accreditation have had difficulty hiring and retaining qualified faculty.
 
Lilly15 said:
Thanks, I did. It seems to me there is plenty of pharmacy schools out there that we don't have to worry about a monopoly on pharmacy schools or competition. The pharmacy schools do not look like they are competing with each other. Schools that open charge a higher tuition than other schools. Overall, won't this actually hurt business and the economy? Higher unemployment, more students loans and students in debt? Thoughts anyone? If not, I guess we should all sit back and watch this profession sink to the ground?
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand antitrust laws. A centralized accrediting body limiting the number of schools that can open is considered anti-competitive. I'm making a value-neutral statement. It is the law. I'm no more a fan of proliferating pharmacy schools than anyone else is. But we cannot hang our hopes on a solution that is illegal.

No one is telling you to sit back and watch the profession sink. I'm suggesting that you be creative and think of ways to support and promote the profession that are legal and feasible to accomplish. Spamming ACPE to ask them for a solution that is neither legal nor feasible is a waste of time and effort that could be devoted elsewhere.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I don't think you understand antitrust laws. A centralized accrediting body limiting the number of schools that can open is considered anti-competitive. I'm making a value-neutral statement. It is the law. I'm no more a fan of proliferating pharmacy schools than anyone else is. But we cannot hang our hopes on a solution that is illegal.

No one is telling you to sit back and watch the profession sink. I'm suggesting that you be creative and think of ways to support and promote the profession that are legal and feasible to accomplish. Spamming ACPE to ask them for a solution that is neither legal nor feasible is a waste of time and effort that could be devoted elsewhere.
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I see two ways to lower the candidate pool. One is to require a Bachelor's degree for pharmacy school admission. That would help somewhat, although many pharmacy students already have one, so that would only help a little. The second is to make residencies mandatory. Much like going to the PharmD did awhile back, this would rapidly decrease the number of new pharmacists entering the workforce temporarily.

I am not in favor of either of these options, but I cannot think of anything else that could have much of an effect on the supply side of the equation. Well nothing legal, practical.

Where does everyone get the idea that ACPE can fix this? Why not blame the government for giving student loans and demanding that only x number of pharmacy students may get loans? Or demanding that each state only be allowed x number of pharmacy school, etc? See how ludicrous that sounds? It is the same with ACPE, they are not the Wizard of Oz and cannot just make up whatever rules they wish as they go along.

Now if you think that the actually academic standards do need to be raised for all school across the board, then that is a discussion for ACPE.
 
Ok I'll chime in here, thanks A4M for the referral, I appreciate the opportunity to assist in this member's care.

1) ACPE is recognized by the DOE as an accrediting body; as such, it's under strict DOE scrutiny and cannot arbitrarily decide what schools can open or not. That's a violation of Sherman Antitrust. Even if the intentions are good (such as recognizing a surplus), it's considered monopolistic.

It could work in China or Cuba, but not the US.

2) As for ACPE increasing standards, this is possible; however, it would apply to EVERYONE. Most recent example is ACPE mandating things called "IPPE/IPE's" or the fact that X% of the curriculum must be experiential (vs. didactic).

The consequence can actually be perverse in that a new school would have an easier time meeting new requirements vs older schools. A new school can write its curriculum from the ground up with the new requirements in mind, whereas an old school has to retool everything with 4 full-sized classes already in the pipeline.

It's like buying a new car with new safety features vs. fixing/upgrading an older model car while it's going 65mph on the freeway.

In my example above, some older schools just dumped the IPPE/IPE requirement onto students and the onus was on them to find sites and complete the requirement, or stuck them in 2-3 week blocks over a traditional vacation block to complete it. Imagine the lack of flexibility for 3-year accelerated programs to do that.
 
This is why my belief is that we should be finding new things for pharmacists to do (increasing demand).

Attempting to limit the supply is both futile and short-sighted. You're better off emailing people at CMS to get stricter on safety/clinical measures that are within the scope of pharmacy.

Look at it this way, if you increase pharmacist demand by ONE pharmacist in each state of the union, that's almost the equivalent of shutting down one new school's graduating class per year.

The best part is, you have the law and outcomes research on your side.
 
confettiflyer said:
This is why my belief is that we should be finding new things for pharmacists to do (increasing demand).

Attempting to limit the supply is both futile and short-sighted. You're better off emailing people at CMS to get stricter on safety/clinical measures that are within the scope of pharmacy.

Look at it this way, if you increase pharmacist demand by ONE pharmacist in each state of the union, that's almost the equivalent of shutting down one new school's graduating class per year.

The best part is, you have the law and outcomes research on your side.
Click to expand...

confetti, I never realized you are a genius. Great post. :thumbup:
 
confettiflyer said:
Ok I'll chime in here, thanks A4M for the referral, I appreciate the opportunity to assist in this member's care.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the assist. It *should* put things to rest a bit. Of course, I'm not terribly optimistic as this "Email ACPE and tell them to FIX THINGS" line of discussion seems more persistent than HSV. It's only a matter of time before a new poster pops up telling us to "do it! It can't hurt!" and accusing those who try to explain the facts of not knowing anything, having our heads in the sand or fiddling while the profession burns.

Maybe we need a "Confettiflyer explains the Sherman Act" sticky that we can all link to from our sigs? :idea:
 
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