Your darkest moments as an MD/PhD student?

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Chansey

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I've recently been accepted to a few MD/PhD programs.

I really want to know what I'm getting myself into when I enter an MD/PhD program. What were your darkest moments as an MD/PhD student, and how did you get through those moments? Any tips for staying positive?

[Edited original post out of paranoia of being identified]

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Even the warmest, fuzziest PIs can have rough patches with students. Go by the track record of the PI and how invested they seem to be in their current students.

Grad school and med school can be hard at times and it's normal to feel down about it occasionally. I had too many difficult times in grad school to count. What got me through it was that I made my project my own, treated it like my life's work, and let my curiosity about the next experiment keep me going. This may sound generic but I've heard something similar from several others who have gotten through it. Good luck.
 
I had several dark times during my MD/PhD program. I shouldn't talk about them any more since I'm looking for jobs post-residency, but you can PM me if you ever want my feedback.
 
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Darkest moments?

1) The time my project was going unbelievably well, I thought I was going to graduate in 2 years, and then...everything just stopped working. The thought of spending 6 straight months on a chemical synthesis to find out that it was ultimately useless? Brutal. Having to give two departmental seminars with useless data (two years in) and no idea of how I was going to find a worthwhile project? Absolutely terrible. This is a very common PhD experience.

2) Having a fellow in the lab abruptly start hating me for no discernible reason. Every day suddenly became miserable and I was constantly worried about sabotage. Also very common.

3) Too many others to count (and one I won't mention in a public forum).
 
It was all roses with me.

Everyone has difficulties in life. It's how you handle them that counts. If you ever find yourself hating what you are doing it's time to get up and go out the door and find something you can tolerate.

Like everyone else I had issues. I nearly failed my qualifying exam because the committee hammered me with questions I was not prepared to answer- I was told I was arrogant and they were going to put me in my place. I had a a great PI but he was on sabbatical my second year in the lab, and then took another year to contemplate taking a job as chair at another institution- in another continent... And when he returned he did not remember who I was (ok, he did, but when I asked for permission to graduate he thought I was in my second year, not 4th)... I had to make due and make conditions better for myself, which meant relying on mentorship from others- postdocs, other faculty, etc. I chose to work on a project that my lab had little expertise on. Of course things didn't go smoothly, but I took the initiative and found faculty who could help me though it. And I got though it just fine- better than fine.

If you like what you do and are motivated to get up in the morning to do science, you will make it work and be better off for it- even if it means switching labs 3 times and taking 6 years to get a PhD. If everything is a chore and a struggle and you are just counting the days until you can finish, you are not likely to make it. Even worse, you are wasting your own precious time on this earth.
 
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Match day for my original med school classmates

Returning to med school and knowing nothing

Seeing shady researchers publish in top flight journals while my project languished

Being interviewed for residency by someone who started college after I graduated

Seeing how board creep screws mstps

That ill defined point during third year when nothing is working and you just want to quit

That's just off the top of my head.

There were also many good moments. It is long. Longer than you can appreciate. Having a bad mentor is the worst.
 
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I really appreciate everyone's input. Based on these stories, it looks like resiliency is a critical trait for success in an MD/PhD program.

Go by the track record of the PI and how invested they seem to be in their current students.

Absolutely. If I've learned anything, it's the importance of having a good mentor. When I pick my PhD advisor, the most important factor will be whether or not (s)he has a good track record with graduating MSTP students.

[Edited original post out of paranoia of being identified.]
 
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I really appreciate everyone's input. Based on these stories, it looks like resiliency is a critical trait for success in an MD/PhD program.


Based on my experiences, these are red flags when choosing a lab:

How about just the PI doesn't seem like someone you'd enjoy having a beer with? If you can't enjoy being around the person for a long time, then regardless of everything else your life is going to suck for 4+ years. I don't get the whole move to try to optimize this whole process with metrics. If you would want to hang out with the PI if they weren't your PI, then probably a good fit. Otherwise, think very hard about the cost/benefit...
 
How about just the PI doesn't seem like someone you'd enjoy having a beer with? If you can't enjoy being around the person for a long time, then regardless of everything else your life is going to suck for 4+ years. I don't get the whole move to try to optimize this whole process with metrics. If you would want to hang out with the PI if they weren't your PI, then probably a good fit. Otherwise, think very hard about the cost/benefit...

I agree with you. However, if I'm picking research rotations based on a mentor's online webpage, how will I know which PIs are the type I want to have a beer with? I can't discern their personality from a photograph. The PIs I choose for rotations will be based on their track record, while the final mentor I pick will be based on whether or not we can get along.
 
I think there are the normal trials and tribulations that accompany a PhD (ie, project hitting dead ends, technical difficulties, etc).

As an MD/PhD student, I think one of the more difficult experiences was truly understanding what I was sacrificing by spending an extra 4 years in school to get a PhD. Its difficult to estimate out of undergrad how those extra years will impact your personal life, and possibly delay things like marriage, kids, and/or finally putting down roots in a location that's not just another pit stop on this long road.
I think that was a surprise to me because i never really grew tired of the work or the science. I always maintained a passion for those things but the time was a killer
 
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I think there are the normal trials and tribulations that accompany a PhD (ie, project hitting dead ends, technical difficulties, etc).

As an MD/PhD student, I think one of the more difficult experiences was truly understanding what I was sacrificing by spending an extra 4 years in school to get a PhD. Its difficult to estimate out of undergrad how those extra years will impact your personal life, and possibly delay things like marriage, kids, and/or finally putting down roots in a location that's not just another pit stop on this long road.
I think that was a surprise to me because i never really grew tired of the work or the science. I always maintained a passion for those things but the time was a killer
When you are a clinician-scientist or whatever you become 20-30 years in the future, do you think the extra 4 years will really make as much of difference as you think it does now? I ask this because the average pure PhD length is creeping to ~6 years often followed by multiple post-docs (aka a long time where you might have the same issues setting down roots) and I know people pursue the dual degree because they enjoy the research aspect of it. When you compare yourself to your MD peers, I can see how this feeling arises, but not so much when you compare yourself to your grad school peers. Just curious about your perspective on the issue.
 
When you are a clinician-scientist or whatever you become 20-30 years in the future, do you think the extra 4 years will really make as much of difference as you think it does now? I ask this because the average pure PhD length is creeping to ~6 years often followed by multiple post-docs (aka a long time where you might have the same issues setting down roots) and I know people pursue the dual degree because they enjoy the research aspect of it. When you compare yourself to your MD peers, I can see how this feeling arises, but not so much when you compare yourself to your grad school peers. Just curious about your perspective on the issue.

I think looking that the years spent numerically may ignore one of the aspects that is particularly challenging, namely when those 4 years are spent. I think it would be much easier to spend some of the more hectic years in the beginning of one's residency in your mid 20s, vs early 30s. In particular, if you are in a committee relationship/married, its not only your life that gets put on hold. Also, depending what your spouse does, given the time commitment you must spend at the hospital, it can certainly put a hold on any plans for children as well. More to this point, if you are married to someone who is also pursuing a higher degree, it can make the process even more difficult. So although those 4 years may be a drop in the bucket over one's career, the time which they are carried out can make them more difficult.

I think the hesitation to start seeing your location as home, for me at least, arises in the uncertainty of the residency. At this point, i know its unlikely that I will not be at my home institution because they do not have a home program for my current specialty of interest. Further yet, given that I'm applying for a more competitive specialty, its likely i will not be able to pick and choose my location either. So not being able to provide any reasonable projection of where i'll be/what ill be doing in ~2 years can be unsettling to both partners, especially if you want to start making long term plans in a relationship.

As for total time commitments of PhD vs MD/PhD, assuming a 3-4 PhD in the combined program, I like to think the total time spent when looking at (PhD+post-docs) and (MD/PhD+residency) has the MD/PhD as the longer track. Even though my PhD took 4 years, i spent 2 years in medical school before that and will spend another two years in MS3-4. After this, I'm looking at a 5 year residency. Ignoring any possible fellowships, that puts me at 13 years total. Assuming a 6 year PhD for the pure track, a person would have to spend 7 more years as post doc to match that timeline and the nature of the work is considerably different. More importantly in my opinion, most post-docs I know had a lot more say on where they did their post doc vs what one gets in their residency. It's difficult to directly compare the two because they are very different worlds and styles, but hopefully i provided some insight to it
 
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First and foremost, you must love research to commit to this. Med school is all laid out for you. Grad school requires a highly self motivated individual and an independent thinker. It's all about the hills and valleys and how you climb out of the valleys that matter.

Hills
Graduating med school with $0 of debt and never having to see a financial aid advisor

Making my own schedule for 4 yrs

Academic institutions loooooooooove research, makes residency applications stronger

Respect upon returning to med school....but not always

Valleys

Ratherbefishing pretty much nailed it
 
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I've recently been accepted to a few MD/PhD programs.

I really want to know what I'm getting myself into when I enter an MD/PhD program. What were your darkest moments as an MD/PhD student, and how did you get through those moments? Any tips for staying positive?

[Edited original post out of paranoia of being identified]


Balding.
 
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Match day for my original med school classmates

Returning to med school and knowing nothing

Seeing shady researchers publish in top flight journals while my project languished

Being interviewed for residency by someone who started college after I graduated

Seeing how board creep screws mstps

That ill defined point during third year when nothing is working and you just want to quit

That's just off the top of my head.

There were also many good moments. It is long. Longer than you can appreciate. Having a bad mentor is the worst.
Oh my god. Every. Single. One of these.
 
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