Your opinion of "still waters"

[HelenaP]

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One of my recommenders emailed me the letter she wrote about me, and said to go ahead and delete/edit/add as desired, and she wouldn't be offended if I changed anything. Well, I think the overall letter is very positive, but there was one part out of the two pages I wasn't sure about, where it said I'm "quiet" and I bring to mind the phrase "still waters run deep."

Is that a good thing? I mean, I know I am quiet, but not shy, I'm just not a total chatterbox. I don't think being quiet is a bad trait, but I wasn't sure about the connotations of this phrase. I'm just not that familiar with the saying. Leave it or ask her to take it out?

 

[TCIrish03]

leave it, but instead of "quiet" say something like "plays well with others, but not overly gregarious" 😉

One of my recommenders emailed me the letter she wrote about me, and said to go ahead and delete/edit/add as desired, and she wouldn't be offended if I changed anything. Well, I think the overall letter is very positive, but there was one part out of the two pages I wasn't sure about, where it said I'm "quiet" and I bring to mind the phrase "still waters run deep."

Is that a good thing? I mean, I know I am quiet, but not shy, I'm just not a total chatterbox. I don't think being quiet is a bad trait, but I wasn't sure about the connotations of this phrase. I'm just not that familiar with the saying. Leave it or ask her to take it out?

 

[TrumpsMom]

One of my recommenders emailed me the letter she wrote about me, and said to go ahead and delete/edit/add as desired, and she wouldn't be offended if I changed anything. Well, I think the overall letter is very positive, but there was one part out of the two pages I wasn't sure about, where it said I'm "quiet" and I bring to mind the phrase "still waters run deep."

Is that a good thing? I mean, I know I am quiet, but not shy, I'm just not a total chatterbox. I don't think being quiet is a bad trait, but I wasn't sure about the connotations of this phrase. I'm just not that familiar with the saying. Leave it or ask her to take it out?

Helena,

"Still waters run deep" is a good thing. The way your letter writer used it signifies that while you may not be extremely talkative, you have a very compound and deep mind and thought process. For a doctor, this is a good thing! I wouldn't take it out if I were you. Rather, I might embrace it in an essay by writing about how I am a deep thinker and love solving problems (or something like that).

Good luck!!

 

[TCIrish03]

Yup.

Helena, are you contemplative and analytical?

Helena,

"Still waters run deep" is a good thing. The way your letter writer used it signifies that while you may not be extremely talkative, you have a very compound and deep mind and thought process. For a doctor, this is a good thing! I wouldn't take it out if I were you. Rather, I might embrace it in an essay by writing about how I am a deep thinker and love solving problems (or something like that).

Good luck!!

 

[jlweinst]

Helena,

"Still waters run deep" is a good thing. The way your letter writer used it signifies that while you may not be extremely talkative, you have a very compound and deep mind and thought process. For a doctor, this is a good thing! I wouldn't take it out if I were you. Rather, I might embrace it in an essay by writing about how I am a deep thinker and love solving problems (or something like that).

Good luck!!

I agree, and this gives you something to talk about (or not talk about, hehe) at your interviews. I mean, that's why they have you come for an interview in the first place, to to get a better picture of your personality.

 

[SoonerGeek]

I agree with TrumpsMom. The phrase really implies that you are thoughtful and intelligent. If it is really true about your personality, I would actually emphasize that in your interview (but I wouldn't make mention that you had actually read the letter). It will give them the idea that you think before you speak which seems like a nice asset for a doctor.

My vote: 👍

 

[Compass]

I must point out that, while it may seem like a good thing for a paper to speak thousands of good deeds, about how you want to cure cancer, many LOR readers know applicants are not Gods or superheroes and should not be treated as such. As long as it doesn't say "Don't let this kid into medical school," the truth is what people want. They're looking for humans, not perfect machines. 😉 But yours is good, so keep it. 😀

In your interview, admit you don't talk too much, but say that when something needs to be said, you're there to say it.

 

[Depakote]

Being described as "quiet" is not a bad thing.

One of my best LORs describes me as "quiet", it was so well written, it made my mom cry.

 

[Duchess742]

One of my recommenders emailed me the letter she wrote about me, and said to go ahead and delete/edit/add as desired, and she wouldn't be offended if I changed anything.

umm...nobody else has a problem with this? 😕

i thought the LOR is supposed to be the recommender's opinion of you, not the opinion you wish he/she had of you. i sure hope you're at least acknowledging that the rec wasn't confidential.

 

[arroser]

umm...nobody else has a problem with this? 😕

i thought the LOR is supposed to be the recommender's opinion of you, not the opinion you wish he/she had of you. i sure hope you're at least acknowledging that the rec wasn't confidential.

The recommender didn't say she wouldn't change it back if she didn't agree with it, or just take it out, or leave it as it was even if the OP did change it. I think the fact that she sent her the letter indicates that there isn't really much negative in there that she wouldn't want the OP to know about. The idea of relinquishing your right to see the letters doesn't mean that the recommenders can't send them to you anyway - you just can't demand to see them. That gives the recommenders the freedom to write the truth as they see it. If it's all good (one of my college recommenders sent me his even though I'd signed the form) then I think it's sweet for them to let you know how highly they think of you.

If the only thing the OP is worried about is "still waters run deep" I'm thinking that this recommender isn't too worried about her entering medical school - she just wanted to make sure that what she had written was the kind of letter the OP wanted. Maybe this recommender hasn't written many med school LORs.

 

[Depakote]

umm...nobody else has a problem with this? 😕

i thought the LOR is supposed to be the recommender's opinion of you, not the opinion you wish he/she had of you. i sure hope you're at least acknowledging that the rec wasn't confidential.

Lots of LOR writers go as far as to let students write their own recommendations. It's not that uncommon and perfectly legit. As long as the recommender reviews any changes and signs it, it's kosher.

 

[Depakote]

And side note. "Just because you waive the right to see your LOR doesn't mean you haven't seen it." This is exactly what my Pre-Med advisor told me when I had concerns about helping one of my LOR writers write a LOR for me.

 

[Duchess742]

Lots of LOR writers go as far as to let students write their own recommendations. It's not that uncommon and perfectly legit. As long as the recommender reviews any changes and signs it, it's kosher.

yeah, just about as kosher as pork! i think that's terrible b/c it gives an unfair advantage to students who are more eloquent or who have a higher opinion of themselves and are able to write better stuff. chances are, if the recommender is that lazy anyway, he/she won't change much after the student writes it.

 

[Depakote]

yeah, just about as kosher as pork! i think that's terrible b/c it gives an unfair advantage to students who are more eloquent or who have a higher opinion of themselves and are able to write better stuff. chances are, if the recommender is that lazy anyway, he/she won't change much after the student writes it.

I don't know about that. Would you rather write your own letter or have someone that's written dozens write one for you?

It all comes down to selecting the right letter writer. I had a doc that let me "assist" in writing my own. I wrote draft outlines, then he made significant improvements, I made a few suggestions to appeal to the adcoms, then we nitpicked, by the time it was done, we had a very nice letter. I had another doc just go off and dictate one of the best damn letters you'd ever read.

I don't think either of these situations were particularly "unfair". I just had two great doctors that wound up giving me two great recommendations. I'm not saying one way was better, either.

 

[strawberryfield]

And side note. "Just because you waive the right to see your LOR doesn't mean you haven't seen it." This is exactly what my Pre-Med advisor told me when I had concerns about helping one of my LOR writers write a LOR for me.

ok... that I don't understand. 😕 I waived my right to see my letters and never saw them. someone enlighten me please.

 

[Punkn]

ok... that I don't understand. 😕 I waived my right to see my letters and never saw them. someone enlighten me please.

I think it just means that even if you've waived your right to see your letter, your prof (or whoever) can still decide to show it to you if they want to do so. It's just that you can't ask to see it. For example, my major advisor e-mailed her letter to me after she sent it to the pre-med advisor even though I had waived my write to see any of my letters.

 

[jbrice1639]

ok... that I don't understand. 😕 I waived my right to see my letters and never saw them. someone enlighten me please.

by waiving our rights to see the letter, we are not waiving our ability to see the letters. for example, you do not have the right to steal my car...but if i were to give you the keys and say "go take it out for a spin," you have not violated the fact that you don't have the right to steal the car.

same thing applies here. you waive your right to see the letters, but if the writer chooses to let you see the letter, you're not violating that. your waiving your rights simply means the writer doesn't have to let you see it.

this may blur some ethical lines as their is an implied definition that waiving the rights to see the letters means you haven't seen them, but it doesn't actually state that.

 

[strawberryfield]

by waiving our rights to see the letter, we are not waiving our ability to see the letters. for example, you do not have the right to steal my car...but if i were to give you the keys and say "go take it out for a spin," you have not violated the fact that you don't have the right to steal the car.

same thing applies here. you waive your right to see the letters, but if the writer chooses to let you see the letter, you're not violating that. your waiving your rights simply means the writer doesn't have to let you see it.

this may blur some ethical lines as their is an implied definition that waiving the rights to see the letters means you haven't seen them, but it doesn't actually state that.

ok, now I get it. thanks guys.

It's just that none of my recommenders offered to let me see the letters, (although the ones written by the docs I work for were typed by a co-worker who said they were very good). But also, the form that I signed to waive my rights also had a place for the recommender to sign that they have not allowed me to see the letter... so... I don't think there's any ethical dilema in my situation... 🙄

 

[jbrice1639]

ok, now I get it. thanks guys.

It's just that none of my recommenders offered to let me see the letters, (although the ones written by the docs I work for were typed by a co-worker who said they were very good). But also, the form that I signed to waive my rights also had a place for the recommender to sign that they have not allowed me to see the letter... so... I don't think there's any ethical dilema in my situation... 🙄

yeah, none of my recommenders showed me what they wrote either. one offered, but i told her no...she's nice and i didn't want a reason to hate her...

 

[HelenaP]

Thanks for the replies, I feel better now 🙂 .

As far as being sent the letter, she is the second of my recommenders to show me the letter and ask if it was okay. My humanities teacher made me read the one he wrote in front of him, and everything he wrote was so sweet, I couldn't even look at him 😳 . I gave everyone a form on which I had waived my rights when they agreed to write the letters, so they knew I wouldn't ask to see them. I would hate to write my own letters, I would never write anything about myself nearly as generous as what was in those letters. I had a hard enough time doing the personal statement!

 

[pseudoknot]

i think that's terrible b/c it gives an unfair advantage to students who are more eloquent or who have a higher opinion of themselves and are able to write better stuff.

An advantage given to students who are more eloquent or better writers seems perfectly fair to me.

 

[strawberryfield]

An advantage given to students who are more eloquent or better writers seems perfectly fair to me.

Also, presuming the PS was written by the student, eloquence would give him/her an advantage there too.

 

[strawberryfield]

Cute bunny Helena! I love looking at adoreable pets in people's avatars (mine included, of course) 😀

 

[Duchess742]

Also, presuming the PS was written by the student, eloquence would give him/her an advantage there too.

Yeah, extending what strawberryfield says, the PS is the place where the student's eloquence is supposed to shine through...not the recommender's letter. No matter how applicants choose to loosely interpret the rules, it is the assumption of AMCAS and med schools who interpret the recs that they were confidentially written to express the recommender's honest opinions about the student. Personally, I would be tempted to look at a recommender's letter, but I would never actually do it. No matter how you justify it to yourself according to AMCAS technicalities, I just don't feel like it's "right." I'm not criticizing anyone (much) b/c I'm normally all for finding ways around the system, but in matters like this, I just really believe in a fair playing field (esp since I'm one of the competitors 😉 ), and this is most definitely the type of thing that puts honest (or unlucky) kids at a disadvantage.

For all of you who don't have the opportunity (or would refuse) to help edit your own rec, I do have a few pointers for making sure you get some good ones...and also b/c there are too many cute avatars on this thread for me to rant for too long. First, if you've asked any of your profs to write you a rec for anything before, go to whatever organization the rec was for and ask someone how good it was. I applied (unsuccessfully, haha) for a fellowship a couple of years ago, and when I talked to the head dude afterward, he told me that one of my profs had written me one of the best recs he had seen. So...med school app time rolls around...I hit up that prof for another rec (and be sure to mention you heard he/she wrote you an excellent rec in the past).
🙂

Second, if you have anything particularly outstanding you've done w/in the realm of that recommender, remind him/her of it!! e.g.: "Dr. [cool prof], I was wondering if you'd be willing to write me a good med school rec b/c I thought you'd really be able to talk about my [work ethic, tenacity, whatever], since you played such a significant role in my [research, recovery, winning something, etc]."

Third, in the least obnoxious way possible, make sure your recommenders are aware of your accomplishments. I did this by inviting one of my profs to a research talk I gave. Just be sure your excitement about your thing comes through and it doesn't seem too obvious that you're trying to get a good rec! 😉

good luck! ~

 

[Compass]

I'm going to reiterate what I say. Lots of people write LORs that say the person will find the cure to cancer if they get into med school. But LOR readers are looking for honest opinions. No one's perfect. If they see an honest opinion, they might think better than someone whose LOR says he could be the person to develop the AIDS vaccine.

 

[HelenaP]

Cute bunny Helena! I love looking at adoreable pets in people's avatars (mine included, of course) 😀

Thanks, I've had her just over a week, and today she really started
catching on to the whole litter-box concept. Yay! 😀
Your dog is very photogenic! Duchess' also.

 

[HelenaP]

Personally, I would be tempted to look at a recommender's letter, but I would never actually do it. No matter how you justify it to yourself according to AMCAS technicalities, I just don't feel like it's "right." I'm not criticizing anyone (much) b/c I'm normally all for finding ways around the system, but in matters like this, I just really believe in a fair playing field (esp since I'm one of the competitors 😉 ), and this is most definitely the type of thing that puts honest (or unlucky) kids at a disadvantage.

You really wouldn't look? 😕 The two recommenders that showed me are people I have developed warm relationships with over the last few years. I think they partly showed me because they wanted me to see the nice things they wrote (especially the humanities prof, who walked over to me at the beginning of class and ordered me to read it right then and there). I can't imagine saying no to him, he's such a darling, elderly, grandfather-type. It would have been so rude! I suppose I could have not opened the one in my email, but my god I do not have that kind of self-control.

If it makes you feel better, I have no intention of making any changes. Like I said, they are already far more generous than how I would describe myself. I really just started this because I was confused by the water metaphor.

 

[Duchess742]

You really wouldn't look? 😕 The two recommenders that showed me are people I have developed warm relationships with over the last few years. I think they partly showed me because they wanted me to see the nice things they wrote (especially the humanities prof, who walked over to me at the beginning of class and ordered me to read it right then and there). I can't imagine saying no to him, he's such a darling, elderly, grandfather-type. It would have been so rude! I suppose I could have not opened the one in my email, but my god I do not have that kind of self-control.

If it makes you feel better, I have no intention of making any changes. Like I said, they are already far more generous than how I would describe myself. I really just started this because I was confused by the water metaphor.

haha, ok, i guess i understand your situation a bit more now. it's cool that you didn't make any changes. and i wouldn't want to imagine offending a grandpa-type...esp if he went out of his way to write you such a nice rec. you're still ok by me, owner of cute bunny 🙂

 

[strawberryfield]

you're still ok by me, owner of cute bunny 🙂

haha... "owner of cute bunny" sounds like an old indian name... 😎 you are "owner of cute dog" and I am "owner of another cute dog" 😀