Ophthalmology Chances

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rustycabin

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I am a third year student - I got a 580 on level I and was wondering if I should even consider Optho. I know a lot of people say you need over 600 and others say you just need a good audition. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so please respond it would be greatly appreciated!

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Your score is fine. Apply to whatever you want...Ophtho, Radiology, ENT...I know people that have matched in all of them with that score or lower. There might be people with higher scores but that doesn't mean they'll be better residents. There is more that goes into picking someone than step I. Plus, 580 is a good score. Take step II early and improve your score and it will completely not be a factor.
 
I am a third year student - I got a 580 on level I and was wondering if I should even consider Optho. I know a lot of people say you need over 600 and others say you just need a good audition. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so please respond it would be greatly appreciated!

My cousin got 550something on level I and even lower on level II. He got into the ophtho program of his choice (st johns queens ny). Admittedly he rotated there, but he's proof the 600 thigs is nonsense. Clearly it helps, but its not a cut off (at least not across the board)
 
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Thank you guys for replying - Docespana did your cousin have research?
 
I'd suggest if you have time taking the USMLE, some allopathic programs are DO friendly and there are a lot more of them.
 
I'd suggest if you have time taking the USMLE, some allopathic programs are DO friendly and there are a lot more of them.

In ophtho? Really? Idk if I doubt you but it seems really unlikely without personal connections easing the way into any of those programs. Ophtho is too competitive for its own good even among MDs.
 
I'd suggest if you have time taking the USMLE, some allopathic programs are DO friendly and there are a lot more of them.

I did, only got 225...figured I wouldnt be competitive with that score. Ps what are the DO friendly allopathic programs?
 
My understanding of optho residencies is that chances for a DO in osteopathic programs are good, while casting your net in the ocean of allopathic programs usually produces no results.
 
Not to hijack this thread but is it harder to get optho vs. ortho vs. uro vs. neuro...I just assumed they were all pretty tough via the DO match but was curious if one would be more attainable than another?
 
Not to hijack this thread but is it harder to get optho vs. ortho vs. uro vs. neuro...I just assumed they were all pretty tough via the DO match but was curious if one would be more attainable than another?

Lets do this bit by bit.

Neuro: incredibly easy to get. Well I shouldn't say incredibly, but when you look at the general stats for accepted residents you see it ranks somewhere between family medicine and pediatrics on difficulty. Obviously this sentence is less accurate for Hopkins Neuro (or whatever the top in the nation programs are) but you knew that.

Ophtho: Difficult, but possible, to get into through AOA. Rotating at AOA residency sites help a lot and from what I can tell it has the lowest average COMLEX score of the ortho/ophtho/uro trio. I've been told that rotating at any program helps your odds with all of them. Also: more or less impossible to get in the ACGME world unless you have a connection.

Ortho: Actually not all that hard to get into in the AOA. LOTS of spots, but you need to be good enough to qualify. Not sure how specifically rotations effect your odds, as you can get a decent enough ortho experience on gen surg at some places, but definitely rotating at places you're interested in is encouraged. Is possible, but very very hard to get ACGME ortho.

Uro: Probably the hardest to get AOA because it is so damn few spots and is pretty highly desired. 1/3 of the AOA programs will definitely not interview you unless you've rotated there, the other 2/3 may or may not have the same exact rule. Surprisingly: ACGME (technically AUA) is very DO friendly and if you're highly qualified (you should be to be considering this field) you should definitely consider rotating at AUA sites. They are known to take qualified DOs without any noticeable stigma/bias.
 
Lets do this bit by bit.

Neuro: incredibly easy to get. Well I shouldn't say incredibly, but when you look at the general stats for accepted residents you see it ranks somewhere between family medicine and pediatrics on difficulty. Obviously this sentence is less accurate for Hopkins Neuro (or whatever the top in the nation programs are) but you knew that.

Ophtho: Difficult, but possible, to get into through AOA. Rotating at AOA residency sites help a lot and from what I can tell it has the lowest average COMLEX score of the ortho/ophtho/uro trio. I've been told that rotating at any program helps your odds with all of them. Also: more or less impossible to get in the ACGME world unless you have a connection.

Ortho: Actually not all that hard to get into in the AOA. LOTS of spots, but you need to be good enough to qualify. Not sure how specifically rotations effect your odds, as you can get a decent enough ortho experience on gen surg at some places, but definitely rotating at places you're interested in is encouraged. Is possible, but very very hard to get ACGME ortho.

Uro: Probably the hardest to get AOA because it is so damn few spots and is pretty highly desired. 1/3 of the AOA programs will definitely not interview you unless you've rotated there, the other 2/3 may or may not have the same exact rule. Surprisingly: ACGME (technically AUA) is very DO friendly and if you're highly qualified (you should be to be considering this field) you should definitely consider rotating at AUA sites. They are known to take qualified DOs without any noticeable stigma/bias.

Appreciate the info...I was more referring to neurosurg (I wasn't really clear in that). I heard it is impossible but was just curious.
 
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For neurosurg you need to definitely have rotated there; i think for mostly all of the residencies it is a requirement. They say even if you cant do a rotation there, try to go there for at least 1 week because they really want to see you. There are only about a dozen DO neurosurg residencies...one of them is in the process of switching over to MD. they require a minimum board score - some places I've spoken to say 84, one place told me 500. but the most important thing you can do is to rotate at the program and get solid letters of rec since it is not feasible to rotate at all 12-13 residencies.
 
Big bump, but I'll participate.

So for these AOA specialties like ortho or neuro surg requiring you to rotate there for an interview, what happens at schools that limit rotations in certain specialties to just 8 weeks? Are you able to do 2 week rotations? Would 2 week rotations even help? If you're only able to do 2 rotations then you only get 2 interviews or so? Sounds pretty intense.
 
DO's match into ACGME ophtho residencies every year. With the right USMLE score it is certainly possible and with a really high score a match may even be likely. And as a DO you should definitely give the ACGME ophtho match a shot as it is before the DO match.

There is a whole thread on ACGME ophtho as a DO here: forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13574913
 
DO's match into ACGME ophtho residencies every year. With the right USMLE score it is certainly possible and with a really high score a match may even be likely. And as a DO you should definitely give the ACGME ophtho match a shot as it is before the DO match.

There is a whole thread on ACGME ophtho as a DO here: forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13574913

1% of all ACGME ophtho residents are DOs. Which works out to exactly 2.5 DOs per year.
 
1% of all ACGME ophtho residents are DOs. Which works out to exactly 2.5 DOs per year.

How many do you think even attempt to match ACGME? How many of those that do try have very competitive USMLE scores?
 
How many do you think even attempt to match ACGME? How many of those that do try have very competitive USMLE scores?

Likely very close to 100% of them tried, given the MD spots match before the DO ones. Its a very similar deal with AUA urology, of which I'm intimately familiar. Your second question depends on how you measure "very competitive". Do you mean over 150? Cause then only 1% of medical students have that. Its hard to estimate given fields like ophtho and uro are self selecting, but you can assume the numbers are probably decently high just because of self-selection.

Is the optho match still before the DO match?

Yea. The MD ophtho match is January 15th or so every year.
 
I've heard of DO's getting ACGME optho, but I have never been able to find a DO in an ACGME ortho spot. This is basically an invitation for someone to find one because I am curious.
 
I've heard of DO's getting ACGME optho, but I have never been able to find a DO in an ACGME ortho spot. This is basically an invitation for someone to find one because I am curious.

Check out Northwestern Ortho, they have a PGY3 DO. Nebreska has a PGY2 I think. Giesinger has a PGY2 DO. JPS has a DO in every class. MCG has multiple DOs in the program. Tulane just graduated a DO. Cleveland Clinic has one who's either a PGY4 or a chief. Shands Jacksonville has one who's a PGY4. So yeah, not that many but quite a few. I am sure there are others that I don't know of.
 
Northwestern is actually a pgy-4 from DMU. Hard to spot right away since their website gives everyone an MD after their name. Really impressive.
 
There are currently 45 or 46 ACGME ortho residents who are DOs.

I would say that's a little on the high side, real number is probably closer to 20-30, nothing to write home about but certainly not impossible. There are some phenomenal candidates in Ortho match, most of them take DO spots. I contend the number would be much higher if there was a single match, though most DO program are excellent, just in terrible locations.
 
Check out Northwestern Ortho, they have a PGY3 DO. Nebreska has a PGY2 I think. Giesinger has a PGY2 DO. JPS has a DO in every class. MCG has multiple DOs in the program. Tulane just graduated a DO. Cleveland Clinic has one who's either a PGY4 or a chief. Shands Jacksonville has one who's a PGY4. So yeah, not that many but quite a few. I am sure there are others that I don't know of.

Thanks. Very interesting.
 
There are currently 45 or 46 ACGME ortho residents who are DOs.

Very interesting. Pretty baller for them to go for them to go for ACGME ortho while forgoing the AOA match. I'm hoping that the 2015 combined match- assuming it happens- will help more DOs get spots like that due to more being able to apply while still being able to apply for AOA spots as back up.
 
Very interesting. Pretty baller for them to go for them to go for ACGME ortho while forgoing the AOA match. I'm hoping that the 2015 combined match- assuming it happens- will help more DOs get spots like that due to more being able to apply while still being able to apply for AOA spots as back up.

I wish they've been unified even before 2015. The soft battle between the DO and MD worlds should be ended asap.
 
I would say that's a little on the high side, real number is probably closer to 20-30, nothing to write home about but certainly not impossible. There are some phenomenal candidates in Ortho match, most of them take DO spots. I contend the number would be much higher if there was a single match, though most DO program are excellent, just in terrible locations.

No. It is exactly 45 or 46. These numbers are kept by the AMA and published for their members.

This is of course over all 5 years of pgy education. So the number is just over 9 per year. Which beats ophthalmology by a large margin, but is nothing to write home about still.
 
my N=1

LECOM -Erie campus matched two Allo Optho for the 2012 class
-SUNY Upstate/Syracuse
-U. Pitt
 
No. It is exactly 45 or 46. These numbers are kept by the AMA and published for their members.

This is of course over all 5 years of pgy education. So the number is just over 9 per year. Which beats ophthalmology by a large margin, but is nothing to write home about still.

Interesting... isn't ortho more competitive than optho overall? It seems then, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like DOs matching ACGME isn't based solely on how competitive a field is (though that certainly plays a role) but also on how a particular field sees DOs and the inroads DOs have made into that field. Like the urology example you used. Or gas, which is moderately competitive but not especially more competitive for DOs.
 
Interesting... isn't ortho more competitive than optho overall? It seems then, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like DOs matching ACGME isn't based solely on how competitive a field is (though that certainly plays a role) but also on how a particular field sees DOs and the inroads DOs have made into that field. Like the urology example you used. Or gas, which is moderately competitive but not especially more competitive for DOs.

No way. Ophtho is much harder to match than Ortho. Even when dealing with shades of "super hard to match" ophtho is still much harder than ortho.
 
No way. Ophtho is much harder to match than Ortho. Even when dealing with shades of "super hard to match" ophtho is still much harder than ortho.

I don't know about much harder. There are some exceptional candidates in DO ortho match. The only thing that makes Ophtho competitive is number of spots, especially in DO match. Even then Ortho matches higher board scores with better overall applicant pool IMO. I would say Ophtho and Ortho are about equally as difficult to match when number of spots and applicant pool are considered.
 
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