IM Boards-when should I take?

dietpepsi · Mar 21, 2009

Hello, I wanted to ask some advice here. I am a PGY3 going into fellowship in July 09. I am wondering if I could take the boards in 2010? Is there a deadline when I should be board certified in IM in order to continue my fellowship? Thank you.

gutonc · Mar 22, 2009

dietpepsi said:
Hello, I wanted to ask some advice here. I am a PGY3 going into fellowship in July 09. I am wondering if I could take the boards in 2010? Is there a deadline when I should be board certified in IM in order to continue my fellowship? Thank you.

There may be a requirement by your program but there's no ABIM rule about it. One of the fellows who graduated from our program last year took the IM and Hem/Onc boards back-to-back after finishing up the program.

I missed the deadline for applying for the IM boards this year (at least, without the late fee) so I'm putting it off until 2010. I'll probably have to study a little more but, because of being in the research pathway, even if I took it this year, I'm already 1y out from general IM and since the IM board exam is, from what I've heard, basically the rheumatology boards with a few cards and heme questions thrown in, I'd need to study anyway.

dragonfly99 · Mar 22, 2009

I don't know of any IM subspecialty programs that require passing the boards, or taking the boards, to continue to certain years. However, you generally have to always pass the IM boards to take any subspecialty boards, so probably you don't want to put it off more than a year or so. It's not hard to pass, though there is a ton of minutiae on there (i.e. lab tests for random rheum and GI disorders) so to get a good score is hard I think.

dietpepsi · Mar 22, 2009

thanks guys.

bonadoc · Mar 24, 2009

gutonc said:
There may be a requirement by your program but there's no ABIM rule about it. One of the fellows who graduated from our program last year took the IM and Hem/Onc boards back-to-back after finishing up the program.

I missed the deadline for applying for the IM boards this year (at least, without the late fee) so I'm putting it off until 2010. I'll probably have to study a little more but, because of being in the research pathway, even if I took it this year, I'm already 1y out from general IM and since the IM board exam is, from what I've heard, basically the rheumatology boards with a few cards and heme questions thrown in, I'd need to study anyway.

I would take it immediately after finishing. It is your best shot to pass the test for the first try. You only get 2 shots at it to be board certified. Otherwise you end up not being BE/BC that you see in all the job adds for your career. Or you can go back and do a year of residency to try again if you fail twice. None of these are attractive offers so I took mine right after finishing.
Also it is not rheumatology boards with a few cards and heme questions. There is very little heme actually. Cards and GI are the top in percentages with Rheum only 6-9% of questions.

dragonfly99 · Mar 25, 2009

they ask questions about all subjects...I think the rheum questions seem hard to a lot of us (me included) because you have to have the lab tests memorized to get them right. A lot of folks would know the answer to cards, ID, pulm, etc. or at least be able to guess. A lot of us didn't do a lot of rheum in residency.

I didn't know you only get 2 shots at the IM boards. Is that true?

gutonc · Mar 26, 2009

dragonfly99 said:
I didn't know you only get 2 shots at the IM boards. Is that true?

Nope. No idea where bonadoc got that idea but here it is straight from the horses mouth. Excerpted from:

http://www.abim.org/certification/policies/general.aspx#other

"Re-examination

Candidates who are unsuccessful on an examination may apply for re-examination. To be granted admission, candidates must meet all applicable licensure, professional standing and procedural requirements. As long as these requirements are met, there is no restriction on the number of opportunities for re-examination."

Bonadoc - people on this board are stressed out enough. No need to lie to make it worse.

Bobblehead · Mar 26, 2009

The ABIM will happily take your money as many times as you wish to apply as referenced above. Also note that the testing fee goes up. Every. Single. Year. This is a very strong incentive to pass the first go-around.

dragonfly99 · Mar 27, 2009

The ABIM exam is much less of a big deal than the USMLE steps, trust me. The main reason is nobody cares about your score, as long as you pass...and passing isn't THAT hard. I mean, everybody stressed about it and yes, you should study, but the likelihood of passing is high if you study, unless you are just the type who chronically has problems with standardized tests, etc.

Bobblehead · Mar 30, 2009

That being said do not underestimate any of the board exams and make sure you understand how the test builders designed the exam (content areas, etc.) and utilize the standard available exam review materials (i.e. MKSAP or Medstudy for the IM boards).

For example, for the critical care board there's a review question about histamine causing flushing with improperly spoiled fish. Not something you frequently encounter but wouldn't you know it, there it was on exam. The same goes for pulmonary alveolar proteinosis on the pulmonary boards. You may never see a case in your career but you're almost guaranteed that there'll be a question on it.

bonadoc · Apr 3, 2009

gutonc said:
Nope. No idea where bonadoc got that idea but here it is straight from the horses mouth. Excerpted from:

http://www.abim.org/certification/policies/general.aspx#other

"Re-examination

Candidates who are unsuccessful on an examination may apply for re-examination. To be granted admission, candidates must meet all applicable licensure, professional standing and procedural requirements. As long as these requirements are met, there is no restriction on the number of opportunities for re-examination."

Bonadoc - people on this board are stressed out enough. No need to lie to make it worse.

My mistake. I guess it was more anecdotal as I know a couple of physicians who had to go back for a year of residency to be eligible to sit for boards again. Maybe that was an older rule and now they give you multiple attempts.
To make people feel better about it though more than 90% of people pass the test each year.
It isn't something to be ignored though and people should study. Typically the Cards, Pulm, GI questions tend to be more obscure things that you don't necessarily do on a daily basis so make sure you study.
No harm meant by my prior post as it was an honest mistake from anecdotal evidence, but thanks for the scolding about it!

radslooking · Apr 3, 2009

dragonfly99 said:
I don't know of any IM subspecialty programs that require passing the boards, or taking the boards, to continue to certain years. However, you generally have to always pass the IM boards to take any subspecialty boards, so probably you don't want to put it off more than a year or so. It's not hard to pass, though there is a ton of minutiae on there (i.e. lab tests for random rheum and GI disorders) so to get a good score is hard I think.

does anyone ever ask for scores? all ive seen from IM boards is pass or not

DrWBD · Apr 5, 2009

As someone who started fellowship right after residency, my perspective is to just get the ABIM over with. Delaying it by a year only allows you to forget much of the Internal Medicine knowledge you acquired during residency and takes time away from your specialty studying time.

As others have said here, if you did OK on the USMLE, and prepare adequately starting now, you can still do fine on the ABIM.

jabreal00 · Apr 5, 2009

Take it as soon as possible. One has the best chance right out of residency to pass without too much studying or cramming. Like others have alluded over 90% pass on the first time. So unless you were in the bottom 10-15% of test takers on your inservice exams, you'll do fine.

---------------- Listening to: Massive Attack - Protection via FoxyTunes

dragonfly99 · Apr 8, 2009

jabreal00 said:
So unless you were in the bottom 10-15% of test takers on your inservice exams, you'll do fine.

This is an important point. If you really have troubles w/standardized tests, like you barely passed the USMLE and you scored 10-15%ile on your in service exams, then you know you need to study more. Also, know what your weak areas are and study those. I know I suck at pulmonary and rheum, but since I don't like them I didn't study them enough for the ABIM exam...what do you know my subsection scores for those areas sucked, although my overall score was fine.

IM Boards-when should I take?

dietpepsi

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