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Top 10, what would you guys say?
What are the best osteopathic schools?
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1) The one you get accepted to.
I understand your question, but this has been asked over and over. Typically, any of the established schools (PCOM, DMU, CCOM, LECOM, UMDNJ, NOVA, Western, ...) are thought of as better than the newer schools.
FYI, while some schools may have a more established name, you get out of school what you put in! I'd focus more on getting an acceptance and less on the where at the current moment.
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You need criteria. How can there be a rank w/o something to base it on? You want us to randomly pick our favorites, or something?
In terms of........
easy to get in of course
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Yeah, what are the hardest DO schools to get into? Off the top of my head based only on my own speculation I'd assume PCOM, UMDNJSOM, Michigan state, nova, and western? In that order?
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Sure, I'd like to know what schools are your guys favorites and why?
I just don't anything about any of the osteopathic schools and I don't know where to begin looking except ask for your guys input, which I find more valuable than anyother website
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I don't believe there is a formal ranking for the schools but I think Beckhunter116 gave you a good list of 7 schools. Like they said, usually the more established programs are better just cause of reputation, relationships with hospitals, etc.
This thread had the same question asked
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65752
This thread had the same question asked
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65752
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There's no real consensus on the issue of rank and I wouldn't recommend taking the word of a stranger, anyway. Make your own list. I'd probably start by looking at geographical preference, quality (and location) of rotation sites (more established schools generally have better affiliations), structure of your clinical years, preference of pre-clinical curriculum (yes, it can make a huge difference in your quality of experience, how it prepares you for boards, etc), value (what you get for your money), and current/past students' honest opinion/assessment of their school, faculty, academic climate/administration-student relationship (student-friendly, supportive, or dictators, and anywhere in between, for example), quality of the campus/facility, and special opportunities available, or requirements. Also, on a more personal level, is it a stand-alone school, with just medical students, or are there other professional, graduate, or other types of programs on campus, part of a larger university, for example? I say that, because, it can make a difference in quality of experience.
You really want to go to a school that you think will fit you well. For that you need personal criteria. If you provide some, I think you'll find this board a lot more forthcoming with suggestions.
You really want to go to a school that you think will fit you well. For that you need personal criteria. If you provide some, I think you'll find this board a lot more forthcoming with suggestions.
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Like everyone else has said ... these lists are irrelevant, based on nothing etc, but I'll give my two cents:
(no particular order)
-PCOM
-CCOM
-KCUMB
-UMDNJ
-TCOM
-MSUCOM
-Western
-KCOM
-NSUCOM
-DMU
etc
(no particular order)
-PCOM
-CCOM
-KCUMB
-UMDNJ
-TCOM
-MSUCOM
-Western
-KCOM
-NSUCOM
-DMU
etc
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Sort of irrelevant, but I just saw the deposit for western. 2k, what an ungodly amount just to save a seat. I like PCOM's 250 though, much better.
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PCOM also asks for $2000 by April 15.
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That's also a little tough too. Well, I guess by the time it's all said and done, hoepfully 2k will be peanuts.
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LECOM is the best. Everywhere else is just voodoo teachings.
On the bright side, I got $20 off my Western deposit by paying with a credit card. I love the 1% cash back with Citibank...
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1. The school you pick
2. The school that picks you
3. All other schools
Ranking of med schools is VERY arbitrary. What is important to me may not be important to you. For example, I wanted a school where I would not be stuck in lecture all day, was not in a big city, had low tuition, etc.
Other people might want alot of research, big city, etc.
To each his own, you know.
2. The school that picks you
3. All other schools
Ranking of med schools is VERY arbitrary. What is important to me may not be important to you. For example, I wanted a school where I would not be stuck in lecture all day, was not in a big city, had low tuition, etc.
Other people might want alot of research, big city, etc.
To each his own, you know.
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and what were the top schools you found that matched this criteria?
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I assume the original question was asked because there are ranking lists a-plenty for allopathic programs but not many for osteopathic ones. Keep in mind a lot of the ranking lists for allopathic programs (for which there are many) use criteria such as "amount of money raised from alumni donations". Things that have no real relevance to the didactic quality of the program. It's nigh impossible to make a ranking list of "quality" because criteria differ from person to person.
But something in osteopathic schools that always moves them down a theoretical ranking list in my mind is: branch campuses.
I don't like the idea of branch campuses. For one it makes the medical school seem like a chain store. Secondly, it dilutes teaching talent and it dilutes monetary resources. I prefer a school that takes its resources and puts them back into their main campus to make it better and better rather than throwing out a bunch of little campuses (campii?)
But something in osteopathic schools that always moves them down a theoretical ranking list in my mind is: branch campuses.
I don't like the idea of branch campuses. For one it makes the medical school seem like a chain store. Secondly, it dilutes teaching talent and it dilutes monetary resources. I prefer a school that takes its resources and puts them back into their main campus to make it better and better rather than throwing out a bunch of little campuses (campii?)
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Well, LECOM-B for one. I may be strange, but I didn't really seperate MD and DO. I applied to my State MD schools and a handful of DO schools (mostly east coast to stay kinda close to family).
Wasn't that gung-ho about state MD schools, since they were in big sized cities, except for one, which I didn't have the stats for, so...
I cancelled interviews at LECOM-E and NOVA, due to location (both) and tuition reasons mostly, as I had already gotten into LECOM-B, which won over all my other DO choices for my (many) criteria.
That being said, I can see why people would pick PCOM, TCOM, CCOM, NYCOM, VCOM, or any other COM. None of them are bad schools. It just depends on the balance of factors that they and you are looking for.
For me, most of the DO schools were far above say, Yale, because I am NOT interested in research, AT ALL, and it's required at those type of places. I just want to treat patients and be a good doctor. I don't need to cure cancer while I'm at it.
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Week one at western is Voodoo Doll Gross Anatomy
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While I see your point of view, I can't fully support it, because I attend a "branch" campus (LECOM-B). While we may be a branch, I don't feel that it has hindered us in any way. On the contrary, our board scores are among the top scores in the nation and our classes thus far have gone on to great residencies.
While it is possible to put all of your eggs in one basket, it's not always the best move. Imagine if McDonald's had only stayed in one location...or only owning stock in one company. If you feel that the service you provide is superior to the service of others, I see no reason NOT to expand. Should a great doctor who opens a group practice which has great success at treating their patients not open another branch in the next town over? I would argue that they are morally obligated to do so. Perhaps there is something in the doctor's policies and code of ethics/conduct that provides patients with better outcomes. These advantages should be able to be made available to others, if they are truly superior.
I'm not saying that my schools kicks every other schools' butt. I'm just saying that there are reasons for opening branch schools. It's not like LECOM isn't taking care of their home campus. They just built a massive muti-million dollar student center/gym/thing there, so...I don't think they're hurting for money because of us and the new Seton Hill campus.
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Not surprising.
I can't wait for LECOM's OMM. What most people don't know is that it is run by the CIA. The manipulation techniques are actually methods of covertly snapping someone's neck from behind.
I agree with your point. Unfortunately, this is NOT the mentality of Touro and similar private (ie for-profit) osteopathic schools. I have no doubt that with quality of our current faculty and the ability to recruit top-notch future faculty based on location we could become one of the best in the country. However Touro chooses to spend all of its (our) money and resources chasing satellite campuses and allopathic schools.
I believe schools have an obligation to its students to make sure its own house is in order first and the quality of education is as good as it can be. For example, PCOM has arguably the best reputation of the osteopathic schools. It was around ONE HUNDRED YEARS before opening a PCOM-GA.
Touro? how about 8.
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Everything I have seen about NYCOM (especially its match lists) has been pretty stellar. Here is my list of schools that I consider the "top" after the application and interview season last round. This is mainly based on academics and matching..and other stuff
. This is completely biased and in no way fair to the schools that aren't mentioned in my list. I just know that these ones are super awesome:DMU - great community, great academics. very excited to go here.
KCUMB - great matches, great academics, awesome atmosphere
CCOM - great everything. except price
TCOM - amazing. didn't think I had a shot being OOS.. looking back I should have applied
OSUCOM - amazing as well. They don't take MD letters
Western - ridiculous board scores and residency placement. wow. campus is drab though, and it is ex$pensive...
NYCOM - Crazy match list. Dont know much else
MSUCOM - one of the highest regarded Schools in the nation MD or DO, OOS tuition is INSANE
Im probably missing a few..but I didn't have the chance to familiarize or research a lot of the schools out there. I primarily focused on the one's I was applying to and the ones that werent on the east coast (Im a west coaster). I chose DMU out of 5 options because it was super comfortable, modern, over 100 yrs old, and has great academics. And it was LOADS cheaper than CCOM. My decision obviously wasn't based on location
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I say there are no bad DO schools, the one you want to go to should be the best for you. Like mine is tourocom in NY since I would have never found out what a DO is if I wasn't sent there by dad to attend a open house. The more I found out about it the more I feel in love. After that would be umdnjsom since that is in my state and I would love to stay here. My third choice is nycom because of it's name and my friends that went there. After those three I wouldn't really care as long as the school is up to date with technology.
Atleast that's how I feel
Atleast that's how I feel
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Well if that's the criteria, I claim TCOM is the best...no snow, dress code, and we have real trees
Scrap the idea of the best schools (MD or DO) and look at a couple of things, most importantly:
1. location (do you care to be near family, will weather affect you, etc.)
2. price....although you will be a doctor one day making $150k+ and you will be able to pay it off, a difference of $80k is A LOT. It's practically the number one complaint of med students and doctors
3. realistic stats-apply to schools broadly, ones that are a little below and a little higher than your stats, and of course all the in between ones
Other than that....go based off how you feel at the interviews. Then put the schools through your own personal rankings. I liked this process a lot more once I realized med school choice is a personal choice rather than a ranking/reputation game. Good luck !
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Well in that case, LECOM-B is the best. It hasn't snowed here in over a century. Although it did drop to 32 degrees last winter.
Well if that's the criteria, I claim TCOM is the best...no snow, dress code, and we have real trees
Scrap the idea of the best schools (MD or DO) and look at a couple of things, most importantly:
1. location (do you care to be near family, will weather affect you, etc.)
2. price....although you will be a doctor one day making $150k+ and you will be able to pay it off, a difference of $80k is A LOT. It's practically the number one complaint of med students and doctors
3. realistic stats-apply to schools broadly, ones that are a little below and a little higher than your stats, and of course all the in between ones
Other than that....go based off how you feel at the interviews. Then put the schools through your own personal rankings. I liked this process a lot more once I realized med school choice is a personal choice rather than a ranking/reputation game. Good luck !
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I know law schools are very tier oriented and going to a higher tier law school as opposed to a lower one will mean a big deal in terms of future job opportunities and income potential.
People mistakenly often think the same thing about medical school. The truth is that your board scores, class rank, and personality mean much more in terms of where you end up than where you went to school.
Doctors are in demand everywhere for almost every specialty. It isn't like a we have a lawyer shortage though.
Edit: Just wanted to add this. After my first medical school acceptance the first schools I canceled my interviews with were all at colder/snowy climates. I hate cold.
People mistakenly often think the same thing about medical school. The truth is that your board scores, class rank, and personality mean much more in terms of where you end up than where you went to school.
Doctors are in demand everywhere for almost every specialty. It isn't like a we have a lawyer shortage though.
Edit: Just wanted to add this. After my first medical school acceptance the first schools I canceled my interviews with were all at colder/snowy climates. I hate cold.
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This is mostly true. Much does depend on individual effort and performance, but it is probably wise also to consider that there are elements beyond merit that can impact, very influentially, one's success. We like to think that everything functions through a meritocratic process, but in reality, what options and opportunities you are presented with, do matter and can be the critical link to success. Don't discount it. All things aren't created equal and what school you end up attending could matter, but perhaps not in the ways you might think, or are most visible to you and others. What I'm trying to say in a terse way is that you should choose carefully.
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You could be hypothyroid...I wonder about myself sometimes...lol
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Not sure you meant it this way, but just to clarify..... private does NOT mean "for-profit".
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I honestly don't think you can go wrong at ANY med school. Come on, it IS med school, and at the end everyone comes out as fully licensed physicians.
Everyone has their own criteria and their own priorities so make a list of things that YOU think are most important to you; tuition, location, curriculum, research opportunities, clinical year location, etc...
For me, I wanted to stay in Florida. Have always lived here and I don't really plan on leaving. My wife has started her career here, most of our family is within 2 hours, and we love the area so those were some of the more important criteria I considered.
Everyone has their own criteria and their own priorities so make a list of things that YOU think are most important to you; tuition, location, curriculum, research opportunities, clinical year location, etc...
For me, I wanted to stay in Florida. Have always lived here and I don't really plan on leaving. My wife has started her career here, most of our family is within 2 hours, and we love the area so those were some of the more important criteria I considered.
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I got into PCOM, CCOM, AZCOM, and ATSU-SOMA; I chose SOMA. So here's the top ten.
1. SOMA
2. CCOM, PCOM, AZCOM
3-10. Whatevs.
1. SOMA
2. CCOM, PCOM, AZCOM
3-10. Whatevs.
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That's why I said similar private and not all private. But let's not kid ourselves... just cause an institution is "nonprofit" doesn't mean it's not lining the fat cats' wallets. Privatized health insurance is "nonprofit".
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Well then every institution of higher learning would need the "quotes".
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Would that make you both a DO and a DN (doctor of ninjaopathy), ie dual degree program?
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Oh? How do you know that? You didn't buy into their dog and pony show did you? No, I guess not, since you are apparently going to be attending another school. Good. You are smart.
I agree with your first point, that KCUMB has consistently good match lists, but as to the rest of the points, well, I will have to respectfully disagree. Perhaps at one point KCUMB was a great school, but now, it is just successful business that cares more about the bottom line and whether or not you wear tank tops to class rather than the quality of your education. I have never skipped one day of class since orientation and I l have earned absolutely nothing of value. Most of the lecturers are from other sites/schools and a few of them even admit in public that the policies and curriculum is absolutely ridiculous. Our own professors are dreadfully incompetent...not a single one of them taught me anything that was remotely board-relevant.
Did you know how I managed to pass the boards? I studied 24hrs a day and learned everything by myself from scratch. Meanwhile, analogous students from other institutions were way better prepared by their professors. I was struggling to learn the basics of the TCA cycle while they had been doing board questions on computers from day one. This is how most of pass. We work three times as hard as everyone else and we barely manage to get by. Is this the kind of experience you want to have? Is it? If it is, then go ahead and hand over your $44K (and rising, plus interest) to the administration who invest it in charity organizations that you'll never hear about or benefit from. Meanwhile, they are going to use your *** and send you to collect garbage on Independence Ave. Oh yeah, and when it comes time for you to take your boards, somehow they become even MORE adversarial and try to actively impede your progress.
So we have no faculty of any value (at least any more, since about 15 of them left in the past 3-4 years), including the "famed" and dreadfully anti-social pathologist that school (and their representatives and cheerleaders). Great. You learn useless morphology, but you never learn a single shred of pathophysiology, which by the way, is heavily emphasized on the boards and what all real medical schools teach. Instead, we get videos of the Marlboro Man from way back before most of you were born and 40 page handouts from his website (his pet project, by the way) in 5-point font (which by the way have little to do with his test questions). Yes, folks, this the prized faculty of the school. That's the best you are going to get and they don't give a ****. If you don't like it, you are going to get a **** notation on your **** letter.
Don't be fooled by external appearances or hearsay from staff and student ambassadors. The environment is NOT student-friendly. If you had these friends, you wouldn't need enemies. As my good "friend" Ed. Goljan said, "these guys should be hanged by their toes upside-down because they are not your advocates." (Paraphrased, of course).
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Actually we prefer ND. It's like MD, but 1 letter better.
So OD tops them all?
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Damn! One of my interviewers there was a tool. But this is interesting. Well done.
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If the students at KCUMB barely manage to get by, how is it the school has a consistently good match list?
I'm not trying to argue with you, but you sound extremely bitter and not at all objective, in my opinion.
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No problem, I'm not looking for an argument, Revilla. It's a legitimate question. I have a three-pronged theory to address your question: 1) A lot of us work very hard to make up the deficiencies; medical students are an interesting breed. You place more hoops in front of them and they will do their best to jump them every time, whether they like it or not, and no matter what. They just take it and move on. 2) A lot of us probably do our best to build good connections during rotations and try to shine as much as possible. Rotations matter a lot. A lot. 3) The school was pretty good until recently. It had a notable exodus of professors in just the last 3-4 years, many new people were brought in, and the curriculum gets changed at the drop of a hat; each class can have a remarkably different experience from the others.
So, in summary, we succeed in spite of the challenges. I hope this begins to answer your question. And, yes, I am angry. There's no reason to hide that. Do I have regrets? Absolutely. I was a bit naive and allowed myself to be blindsided. My experience at the school was very much less than optimal, but at the end, everything ended up okay despite that. Very poor quality of experience. I simply made the best of a very bad situation. I'm sorry if my anger is clouding the report I am giving. That's just the way it is. I can't help it. I just don't want others to be fooled by the nice song and dance that the schools gives and make the same mistake I made. There are definitely others that think the same thing as me. It's just that many people don't speak up about it because they are afraid of retribution, or don't care any more. "Professionalism" is waved around the school like a 44-magnum.
The bottom line is that if you are going to choose the school, at least know what you are getting yourself into. It may in fact be the best school for you. At least get the minority report, though, huh?
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Out of curiosity, what year did you graduate and where did you go for residency?
(I don't see many people who use "post-doc" as their status rather than resident or attending)
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We created a post-doc position for that field after people asked. A certain choice (I forget which) was changed to post-doc. Users had to manually change the field to remove post-doc if they had the previous choice that was replaced.
