AOA Objects to WV license change legislation

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scpod

scpod

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From the AOA daily report:

"Advocacy for Osteopathic Licensure

President Ajluni wrote to the West Virginia State Legislature on 2/19/08 regarding SB 554, which relates to osteopathic physician and surgeon licensing requirements. President Ajluni expressed the AOA’s strong opposition to the bill, which would eliminate the state’s requirement that DO graduates complete an osteopathic first-year of postdoctoral training. In addition, the language of the bill itself as submitted contains several inaccuracies, incorrectly listing what entities can approve postgraduate training programs and who administers the osteopathic licensing examination."

Read the full letter for yourself:

http://blogs.do-online.org/media/2/20080220-DR_2-20-08_WVLetter.pdf

Looks like the WV legislature wants to eliminate one of the five states who require that year of osteopathic internship, but the AOA doesn't like it at all. Thoughts?
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Bravo WV!!! About time the 5 holdouts get rid of their antiquated laws. WV will be especially prone to physician shortages. They can't afford to limit the thousands of DO's who haven't or ever will complete that worthless internship. Hopefully the law passes and the other four states take notice.

The AOA brags that only 10% of those who apply for the bypass get rejected. Who cares, because it's typically only those that know they'll qualify that apply anyhow.
 
Seems like a pretty obvious attempt by the AOA to continue "encouraging" DO students to pursue AOA residencies through intimidation, rather than addressing the real reasons many DO students choose to pursue allopathic residencies. Some of which were recently discussed here.

The AOA needs to realize that law or no law, the cows have left the barn, and hanging on to restrictive legislation like this will not bring them back. Hopefully other states will be emboldened to follow WV's lead.
 
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I was going to post a comment on the do-online page for this WV article that went like this.



Dear Dr. Ajluni

WTF?



yours truly
Vegas33
DMU 2011
 
scpod said:
From the AOA daily report:

"Advocacy for Osteopathic Licensure

President Ajluni wrote to the West Virginia State Legislature on 2/19/08 regarding SB 554, which relates to osteopathic physician and surgeon licensing requirements. President Ajluni expressed the AOA’s strong opposition to the bill, which would eliminate the state’s requirement that DO graduates complete an osteopathic first-year of postdoctoral training. In addition, the language of the bill itself as submitted contains several inaccuracies, incorrectly listing what entities can approve postgraduate training programs and who administers the osteopathic licensing examination."

Read the full letter for yourself:

http://blogs.do-online.org/media/2/20080220-DR_2-20-08_WVLetter.pdf

Looks like the WV legislature wants to eliminate one of the five states who require that year of osteopathic internship, but the AOA doesn't like it at all. Thoughts?
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DOs choosing to enter allopathic post-doctoral training programs could still gain AOA approval of their first year by petitioning for approval under AOA policy (Resolution 42). The AOA’s Program & Trainee Review Committee would review the DO’s application to determine if training is comparable to that of those who trained in osteopathic programs. Of the approximately 1,600 people
nationally in the past five years who applied for this exception, all but 10 were approved. Of those not approved and who appealed their case, all were approved for the exception.


That language, to me, is pretty much like saying, "we know this bylaw is outdated and *****ic but we love to make our graduates go through it so they are less inclined to donate money to us in the future..."
 
I really hope similar bills pass for the rest of the 4 states before I graduate. I want to live and practice in one of them and don't want to pay an extra year of compounded interest on my student loans plus lose a year in post residency earnings. The AOA may be against this, however it is a separate entity from state licensing boards, and the state has ultimate control over local physician practice licensure. Thus the AOA can only state their stance on such proposed changes, but the state will have the ultimate say in whether or not two separate licensing boards should exist in order to license physicians in the state.
 
SomeDoc said:
Thus the AOA can only state their stance on such proposed changes, but the state will have the ultimate say in whether or not two separate licensing boards should exist in order to license physicians in the state.
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True, but it is still irksome to see the AOA say they "represent" us, when clearly they have no idea what students and DOs want
 
Boner said:
True, but it is still irksome to see the AOA say they "represent" us, when clearly they have no idea what students and DOs want
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I just think its that grandfather mentality. You know, "I have been around for longer than you, so I know what you want and you don't..." The only way to really change this attitude is from the inside; get elected and start cleaning house.
 
Is the AOA suicidal, self destructive, ignorant or just all of the above? Clearly all of their talk about changing for the future is just lip service from a bunch of tired old men out to protect their phony jobs. The AOA is setting up this profession to collapse. Antiquated GME and CME policies, irresponsible expansion of schools and the blessing of for-profit education, which the larger world of medicine finds abhorent. As health care becomes increasingly stressed as the baby bomers enter retirement, look for more state and federal overrides to anachronistic AOA policies. How long until the national California style conversion happens?
 
Bravo WV! I hope that Michigan and the other states take similar measures(And SOON).
 
One has to realize that the stance taken by the AOA would be an expected one, given that it is an organization that has historically maintained a "separate but equal" ideology. The overwhelming majority of the nation's states, however, see it as otherwise, based on the existence of singular state licensing boards for physicians with either degree.
 
Jamers said:
DOs choosing to enter allopathic post-doctoral training programs could still gain AOA approval of their first year by petitioning for approval under AOA policy (Resolution 42). The AOA’s Program & Trainee Review Committee would review the DO’s application to determine if training is comparable to that of those who trained in osteopathic programs.
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Not quite true. They expect you to have done a month of family medicine, which is a little silly since I'm in EM. I've called them about this and they informed me (about a year ago) that there was no flexibility in this requirement. Hopefully the other states will follow suit as this requirement is not only outdated but negatively impacting those states as people may be willing to work there (at least 3 of these 5 states are very short on doctors).



Wook
 
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wook said:
Not quite true. They expect you to have done a month of family medicine, which is a little silly since I'm in EM. I've called them about this and they informed me (about a year ago) that there was no flexibility in this requirement. Hopefully the other states will follow suit as this requirement is not only outdated but negatively impacting those states as people may be willing to work there (at least 3 of these 5 states are very short on doctors).



Wook
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Exactly! This is why the AOA's claim that 90% of those that apply for licensure under Resolution 42 is crap! I'll never bother applying. Like the above, I'm in EM and will never do a FM month. FM is USELESS unless you're an FM resident. Wake up AOA!!!

Oh...and you all better lock your doors and buy dead-bolts because the AOA watches these boards. They're out there...
 
wook said:
Not quite true. They expect you to have done a month of family medicine, which is a little silly since I'm in EM. I've called them about this and they informed me (about a year ago) that there was no flexibility in this requirement. Hopefully the other states will follow suit as this requirement is not only outdated but negatively impacting those states as people may be willing to work there (at least 3 of these 5 states are very short on doctors).



Wook
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You might want to tell them that then: that part of my post is from the President's letter, my comments begins below that.
 
Jamers said:
You might want to tell them that then: that part of my post is from the President's letter, my comments begins below that.
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He might want to tell who what? What do you mean? It's already been established that the AOA is NOT flexible when it comes to exemptions to resolution 42.
 
VALSALVA said:
He might want to tell who what? What do you mean? It's already been established that the AOA is NOT flexible when it comes to exemptions to resolution 42.
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He can tell them whatever he wants. I was just letting him know that wasn't my words or opinion. I was merely attacking the language used in the letter; you might want to read my post, we say the same thing.
 
Jamers said:
He can tell them whatever he wants. I was just letting him know that wasn't my words or opinion. I was merely attacking the language used in the letter; you might want to read my post, we say the same thing.
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You said, "You might want to tell them that then."

I just wanted to know who you were referring to...if it was some other entity other than the AOA. Your language wasn't clear. And why would he tell the AOA when they were the ones that laid the smack down on his request in the first place (and mine, incidentally)? That was it. I realize that you're on the right of this argument. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
 
VALSALVA said:
You said, "You might want to\tell them that then."

I just wanted to know who you were referring to...if it was some other entity other than the AOA. Your language wasn't clear. And why would he tell the AOA when they were the ones that laid the smack down on his request in the first place (and mine, incidentally)? That was it. I realize that you're on the right of this argument. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
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No, I understand and I am on your side. I am about to enter into rotations in a few months an listening to you guys about the process of residency afterwards has me scared. Coincidently, I am interested in EM, any tips for a loser like me?
 
Jamers said:
No, I understand and I am on your side. I am about to enter into rotations in a few months an listening to you guys about the process of residency afterwards has me scared. Coincidently, I am interested in EM, any tips for a loser like me?
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Well there's no reason to be scared. Just be well prepared. Do your homework if you're planning on entering the allopathic match. If geography is not a limiting factor, apply broadly - preferably, but not necessarily limited, to programs that have taken DO's in the past. Have you taken the USMLE? If not, you may want to call/e-mail around and find out if the COMLEX is sufficient. If your step I score isn't great, take step II early and do better.

In the shorter term, do your best on your core rotations. Nail down 4th year audition rotations EARLY!! Figure out where you want to rotate and start making contacts right away. Then get a great letter or two (or three) on those auditions rotation(s). Make sure at least one of them is a SLOR http://www.cordem.org/slor.htm

You're not a loser. You'll be fine of you stay organized, work hard, and work smartly.
 
I've asked this before and not received a satisfactory answer. What exactly is so "*****ic" and "outdated" about the rotating internship? It sounds like an excellent training opportunity. I've heard from more than one physician that it makes for a more well rounded doctor, and my father, an MD, thinks the AMA should not have discontinued the allopathic version of the internship.

Given that I'm a mere medical student, and all I have is anecdotal information, I'd be interested in knowing about studies evaluating the effectiveness of the internship.

I'm a generalist by nature, want to know about everything, and will probably go into family medicine, so maybe I'm strange and unusual, but if by ending the rotating internship we are sacrificing some breadth and experience in favor of more specialization time, it sounds like a bad idea. I would want every physician who treats me to have done time in the various major specialties, just so they will have better perspective and insight into what my conditions and treatment options might be.

If I were to guess, I would say the real problem is that some students in osteopathic programs really wanted to be MDs and are opposed to anything that distinguishes them from their allopathic colleagues. The students I know who, like myself, are into osteopathy are also enthusiastic about the rotating internship idea.
 
VALSALVA said:
Well there's no reason to be scared. Just be well prepared. Do your homework if you're planning on entering the allopathic match. If geography is not a limiting factor, apply broadly - preferably, but not necessarily limited, to programs that have taken DO's in the past. Have you taken the USMLE? If not, you may want to call/e-mail around and find out if the COMLEX is sufficient. If your step I score isn't great, take step II early and do better.

In the shorter term, do your best on your core rotations. Nail down 4th year audition rotations EARLY!! Figure out where you want to rotate and start making contacts right away. Then get a great letter or two (or three) on those auditions rotation(s). Make sure at least one of them is a SLOR http://www.cordem.org/slor.htm

You're not a loser. You'll be fine of you stay organized, work hard, and work smartly.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

I'm one of those people who was not too intent on taking the USMLE. Some will argue on this board that its helpful. I just couldn't justify paying more money to take another test.

DO make sure of the SLOR. No one told me about it until September or October and I almost missed the opportunity to get one.

Good luck and stay positive!


Wook
 
theraball said:
I've asked this before and not received a satisfactory answer. What exactly is so "*****ic" and "outdated" about the rotating internship? It sounds like an excellent training opportunity. I've heard from more than one physician that it makes for a more well rounded doctor, and my father, an MD, thinks the AMA should not have discontinued the allopathic version of the internship.

Given that I'm a mere medical student, and all I have is anecdotal information, I'd be interested in knowing about studies evaluating the effectiveness of the internship.

I'm a generalist by nature, want to know about everything, and will probably go into family medicine, so maybe I'm strange and unusual, but if by ending the rotating internship we are sacrificing some breadth and experience in favor of more specialization time, it sounds like a bad idea. I would want every physician who treats me to have done time in the various major specialties, just so they will have better perspective and insight into what my conditions and treatment options might be.

If I were to guess, I would say the real problem is that some students in osteopathic programs really wanted to be MDs and are opposed to anything that distinguishes them from their allopathic colleagues. The students I know who, like myself, are into osteopathy are also enthusiastic about the rotating internship idea.
Click to expand...

On paper this sounds like a great idea...however, we have limited time to train.

I'm in EM and I already do the general stuff in addition to my specialty. How would adding another month of doing the same thing in a family medicine rotation help in EM? I could use that month elsewhere developing my niche within EM (eg ultrasound, EMS, etc). Doing an additional year or internship year would definitely not be helpful since most of my off-service rotations are in the same thing an intern year would do. An extra year in my training comes at a significant cost (loans and lack of salary) and I'm planning on doing a fellowship which would be even harder to justify financially for the reasons just mentioned.

As for other specialties, I don't think it would add much because in 2-4 years, most of the knowledge acquired but not used will fall by the way side.

There are arguments for both sides, but I have yet to hear one that convinces me it would add anything to my training. I understand that you think having had a year of generalist training will help to make a better doctor. It may help for the 1st year, but after that the knowledge is lost as you focus solely on your specialty, unless you work as a primary doctor.


Wook
 
theraball said:
I've asked this before and not received a satisfactory answer. What exactly is so "*****ic" and "outdated" about the rotating internship? It sounds like an excellent training opportunity. I've heard from more than one physician that it makes for a more well rounded doctor, and my father, an MD, thinks the AMA should not have discontinued the allopathic version of the internship.

Given that I'm a mere medical student, and all I have is anecdotal information, I'd be interested in knowing about studies evaluating the effectiveness of the internship.

I'm a generalist by nature, want to know about everything, and will probably go into family medicine, so maybe I'm strange and unusual, but if by ending the rotating internship we are sacrificing some breadth and experience in favor of more specialization time, it sounds like a bad idea. I would want every physician who treats me to have done time in the various major specialties, just so they will have better perspective and insight into what my conditions and treatment options might be.

If I were to guess, I would say the real problem is that some students in osteopathic programs really wanted to be MDs and are opposed to anything that distinguishes them from their allopathic colleagues. The students I know who, like myself, are into osteopathy are also enthusiastic about the rotating internship idea.
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The AOA has pretty much done away with the traditional rotating internship for most specialties and the year is integrated into the first year of residency.
For many specialties, the DO intern year is pretty similar the the internyear of a MD residency except a month or two which, in the DO intern years, are usually a waste of time. I'm hoping to do a psychiatry residency. MSU has both a DO and an MD psychiatry residency. The intern year for MD residents consists of 4 months of IM, 2 months of neuro, 4 months of psychiatry and 2 months of electives. The intern year for DO residents is the same as the MD residency except that the two months of electives are replaced by one month of ob/gyn and one month of surgery. I fail to see how a month of ob/gyn and a month of surgery will make anyone a better psychiatrist. Would you seriously choose a psychiatrist who had done a month of surgery during their intern year over one who hadn't?
Because I want to stay in Michigan for my residency, I have little choice but to do a DO psych residency. But for others, they are planning to do residencies in other states specifically because they want to make better use of the two months.
There are far fewer DO residencies in most specialties than in MD specialties. Requiring us to do an extra DO intern year in these 5(hopefully soon to be zero) states, means , for some people, that they will have to let the interest on their loans build for an extra year, and lose a year of earning a decent salary for the hours they work.
 
theraball said:
I've asked this before and not received a satisfactory answer. What exactly is so "*****ic" and "outdated" about the rotating internship? It sounds like an excellent training opportunity. I've heard from more than one physician that it makes for a more well rounded doctor, and my father, an MD, thinks the AMA should not have discontinued the allopathic version of the internship.
Click to expand...

The edge of experience brought by an extra year in internship training diminishes as residents proceed into the later years of their training. Individuals who first do an internship and then go into a residency program as a PGY-1 outshine their first year colleagues who did not do an internship. By the final year in the residency program, the difference in physician skill and knowledge base pertinent to the field is minimal, as the internship-less residents practically "catch up". I remember reading this in a study. Abstracts of studies should be available on pubmed.
 
SomeDoc said:
Abstracts of studies should be available on pubmed.
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Haven't looked, but I'm sure there are plenty. One immediately came to mind because JAOA printed it early last year:

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/107/1/26

They surveyed EM residents and directors. Most of the residents who did internships did so because of osteopathic licensing issues. Both residents and directors felt it helped them in doing H&Ps and procedures in the first year, and that's all. I would be really surprised if the results of other studies were not similar.
 
George Thomas (former pres) came to PCOM in 2005 and told us that the requirement for DOs to complete an internship is determined by individual state boards, of which the AOA has no control. He neglected to mention that although the AOA does not have control, it sure does have a lot of influence.
:thumbdown: AOA :mad:
 
In addition to the above points I'd like to add that despite the AOA's claim that the osteopathic internship is crucial in molding a recent graduate into a distinctly different DO, many internship programs have no OMM component and don't even pretend to have one. I've been in "flagship" osteopathic training hospitals and the presence of any sort of uniqueness or use of OMM were totally absent.
 
If you want to be pro-active about this situation, please take the time and write a professional email (or even better, regular mail) showing your support for the bill in the WV Senate. Let the senators know that there is support for their bill.

If you are against the bill, you too can voice your opinion.

Make sure in all correspondance(s) that the language is civil and professional. State that you are writing in reference to Senate Bill 554 (introduced by Senators Foster and Unger), and the reasons why you support (or are against) the bill. If you can, state reasons why it will benefit West Virginia. I would recommend you do not use disparaging words about the AOA as it is most certainly uncivil. If you reference the AOA, just politely state that you disagree with the position that the President of the AOA have taken.


Contact info: (obtained from the WV state legislature website)

Sen. Dan Foster - [email protected]
Room 223W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305

Sen. John Unger II - [email protected]
Room 216W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305



CHAIR - Committee on Health and Human Resources
Sen. Roman Prezioso - [email protected]
Room 439M, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305


CHAIR - Committee on Government Organization
Sen. Edwin Bowman - [email protected]
Room 214W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305
 
group_theory said:
If you want to be pro-active about this situation, please take the time and write a professional email (or even better, regular mail) showing your support for the bill in the WV Senate. Let the senators know that there is support for their bill.

If you are against the bill, you too can voice your opinion.

Make sure in all correspondance(s) that the language is civil and professional. State that you are writing in reference to Senate Bill 554 (introduced by Senators Foster and Unger), and the reasons why you support (or are against) the bill. If you can, state reasons why it will benefit West Virginia. I would recommend you do not use disparaging words about the AOA as it is most certainly uncivil. If you reference the AOA, just politely state that you disagree with the position that the President of the AOA have taken.


Contact info: (obtained from the WV state legislature website)

Sen. Dan Foster - [email protected]
Room 223W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305

Sen. John Unger II - [email protected]
Room 216W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305



CHAIR - Committee on Health and Human Resources
Sen. Roman Prezioso - [email protected]
Room 439M, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305


CHAIR - Committee on Government Organization
Sen. Edwin Bowman - [email protected]
Room 214W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305
Click to expand...

:thumbup: Well stated!



Wook
 
group_theory said:
If you want to be pro-active about this situation, please take the time and write a professional email (or even better, regular mail) showing your support for the bill in the WV Senate. Let the senators know that there is support for their bill.

If you are against the bill, you too can voice your opinion.

Make sure in all correspondance(s) that the language is civil and professional. State that you are writing in reference to Senate Bill 554 (introduced by Senators Foster and Unger), and the reasons why you support (or are against) the bill. If you can, state reasons why it will benefit West Virginia. I would recommend you do not use disparaging words about the AOA as it is most certainly uncivil. If you reference the AOA, just politely state that you disagree with the position that the President of the AOA have taken.


Contact info: (obtained from the WV state legislature website)

Sen. Dan Foster - [email protected]
Room 223W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305

Sen. John Unger II - [email protected]
Room 216W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305



CHAIR - Committee on Health and Human Resources
Sen. Roman Prezioso - [email protected]
Room 439M, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305


CHAIR - Committee on Government Organization
Sen. Edwin Bowman - [email protected]
Room 214W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305
Click to expand...

I'm guessing it would only be worthwhile to send an email if you live in West Virginia, correct or no? I'd be happy to send one, but living in Michigan, I don't know that state senators in WV would really care what I thought about it.
Anyone know who to contact to get similar bills introduced in the other 4 states?
 
Great idea. I sent an e-mail to Senator Unger 4-5 days ago. I was up front and told him I wasn't a resident of West Virginia. However, when I'm looking for a job in 1-2 years, it would be nice to be able to consider WV. I haven't heard anything back, but I didn't expect to.
 
i dont care. im just becoming a doctor so I can pick up chicks. hahahahaha, just kidding*indian accent
 
I have to say as a WV resident, who would prefer to practice in WV, this is very exciting. Something interesting to note is that one of the state legislators is Dr Marshall Long D.O. I wonder what is his stance on the bill?
 
Good for West Virginia. This is a change that will happen eventually, either through the work of the various state boards, the state legislatures, or a POed DO who is tired of the AOA limiting his/her career prospects and decides to get a lawyer. There are a lot of examples where the AOA shows just how out of touch it is, this is merely one.
 
BTW, here's the text of my letter...



Dear Sir,

I am writing to applaud your efforts on Senate Bill 554. As an osteopathic medical student who is interested in both evidenced based medicine and rural medicine, I had not considered West Virginia as a site in which to pursue residency or a career because of its adherence to archaic AOA rules.

If Senate Bill 554 becomes law, West Virginia will join the other 45 states who adhere to a nationally accepted standard of licensing and attract a not insignificant number of DOs who, though they trained as their MD counterparts, were blocked by the AOA's misguided policies from practicing in the state.

As for the AOA's opposition to this bill, they certainly do not speak for me.

Once again, thank you.

Sincerely,
 
group_theory said:
If you want to be pro-active about this situation, please take the time and write a professional email (or even better, regular mail) showing your support for the bill in the WV Senate. Let the senators know that there is support for their bill.

If you are against the bill, you too can voice your opinion.

Make sure in all correspondance(s) that the language is civil and professional. State that you are writing in reference to Senate Bill 554 (introduced by Senators Foster and Unger), and the reasons why you support (or are against) the bill. If you can, state reasons why it will benefit West Virginia. I would recommend you do not use disparaging words about the AOA as it is most certainly uncivil. If you reference the AOA, just politely state that you disagree with the position that the President of the AOA have taken.


Contact info: (obtained from the WV state legislature website)

Sen. Dan Foster - [email protected]
Room 223W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305

Sen. John Unger II - [email protected]
Room 216W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305



CHAIR - Committee on Health and Human Resources
Sen. Roman Prezioso - [email protected]
Room 439M, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305


CHAIR - Committee on Government Organization
Sen. Edwin Bowman - [email protected]
Room 214W, Building 1
State Capitol Complex
Charleston, WV 25305
Click to expand...

FYI,
Sen. Dan Foster is an MD...
 
Anyone know how this bill is being received? Where is it at in the legislative process?
 
According to the AOA daily reports blog, Executive Director John Crosby says that the WVSOM and state osteopathic boards are supporting the AOA's stance. Anyone fron WVSOM out there who can maybe refute this info? I'm not sure WVSOM and their students are resoundingly in support of the AOA's policy statement. At times, I feel like the AOA is outright lying; they make sweeping statements and never provide documentation to back it up (i.e. we're really working on graduate medical education at these meetings we hold - so where are the minutes of these meetings?)
 
Boner said:
According to the AOA daily reports blog, Executive Director John Crosby says that the WVSOM and state osteopathic boards are supporting the AOA's stance. Anyone fron WVSOM out there who can maybe refute this info? I'm not sure WVSOM and their students are resoundingly in support of the AOA's policy statement. At times, I feel like the AOA is outright lying; they make sweeping statements and never provide documentation to back it up (i.e. we're really working on graduate medical education at these meetings we hold - so where are the minutes of these meetings?)
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I would guess WVSOM is concerned about their current TRI programs and also concerned that more students will do allopathic residencies, making it harder for them to fill their spots, if the change goes through. I'm guessing that's the AOA's concern, too. I agree that it's pretty irritating, though, and certainly not student/physician friendly.

And I'll note that I'm at an allopathic school in large part because of the TRI requirement in the 5 states.
 
Dear Sirs,

I am writing in reference to Senate Bill 554 introduced by Senators Foster and Unger. I must preface this letter by stating that I have no ties to WV, nor have any current plans to practice in your state. I do however, keep up with current issues facing medicine and specifically Osteopathic Medicine, as I am a soon to be graduate. I write you because I think you have an opportunity to lead the way in changing Osteopathic Medicine, and the training in which our graduates receive. I am aware of the American Osteopathic Association's published position on Bill 554 in a letter written by our president, but as a member I do not agree, and feel that his words do not reflect the majority of the AOA's membership.

America is currently facing a shortfall of physicians one in which your state as certainly felt, and one that is only worsening. Osteopathic Medicine has required this additional training for sometime, and this policy has led to much grief to graduates of osteopathic medical schools. As an upcoming graduate I too have felt the pressure exerted on me by the AOA while trying to determine my place of residency training. While I have entertained several areas of the county, I have specifically avoided those training programs in those states requiring an AOA internship for licensure. This requirement imposed two issues on those of us burdened with massive amounts of debt and aging bodies.

That one year, is spent making a barely adequate wage as compared to debt load, forcing forbearance leading to higher loan debt upon completing residency. Secondly, I'll be thirty years old upon graduation; surely you can understand the wish for me and my family to move past training and begin to live life.

While I understand the need for this internship in the past, I feel it no longer has anything but historical significance. Osteopathic Medicine must strive to improve it's qualify of graduate medical education and rely less on quantity.

Please support Senators Foster and Unger in their quest.

Regards,
 
Boner said:
According to the AOA daily reports blog, Executive Director John Crosby says that the WVSOM and state osteopathic boards are supporting the AOA's stance. Anyone fron WVSOM out there who can maybe refute this info? I'm not sure WVSOM and their students are resoundingly in support of the AOA's policy statement. At times, I feel like the AOA is outright lying; they make sweeping statements and never provide documentation to back it up (i.e. we're really working on graduate medical education at these meetings we hold - so where are the minutes of these meetings?)
Click to expand...

The WV State Osteopathic boards are currently being run by the AOA out of Chicago. Of course they support the AOA's stance. The DOs I know in the state of WV are very much in support of the bill and the change. One way or another it will pass.
 
WVPanther said:
The DOs I know in the state of WV are very much in support of the bill and the change. One way or another it will pass.
Click to expand...


I hope so.

The extra year is one of the main reasons I did not rank an ostepathic program for my residency. Hopefully, the AOA will start to listen.


Wook
 
Hi guys,

The West Virginia Senate has passed SB55, and now it is in the House. The AOA is trying to prevent the bill from passing.

If you are in Michigan, West Virginia, Pennslyvannia, Florida, and Oklahoma - passing this bill will mean a great deal. For example, it takes a DO 4 years post grad to become an emergency doctor - but in these five states, it takes MD only 3 years. In West Virginia, this internship obligation dates back to the late 1920s - and the AOA has been campaigning to keep the internship year. If the bill passes, there's a lot better chance all five states will follow suit.

Suppose you want to do an AGCME program in one of those 5 states? What if you can't find an osteopathic residency program in orthopedics? You will have to do an AGCME program. Well currently you must do 1 year of an internship - and then apply to that program. This puts you at a disadvantage since THAT residency program is going to eat the cost of your PGY4 year since the federal government will only pay for 3 years. This means you have less chance of getting into the program you really want to get into since that hospital is financally going to eat the cost in order to take you into their program.

Further more, for those of us with $250,000+ in debt, I think it is in the best interest that this bill gets passed. Since it will allow us to get out 1 year earlier and not do some internship year - and let that school debt accrue in interest. Some people say an internship year will make you a more well "rounded" physician - well if this bill passes, those of you who want to do your osteopathic internship year can still do it - for those of us with hundreds of thousand of dollars in debt (like all of us) then you can do 3 years instead of the 1 + 3PGY it currently is now in the 5 states.

Of those 5 states, 3 of them are in need of rural physicans of all specialties - and passing this bill - and if other states follow suit - means those of us who have to go into AGCME programs will have more time to pay off debt. Politically, by passing this bill - there is much more incentive for grads to practice in those state.

The AOA President Strosnieder came to our school and told us it was up to the state to decide and that the AOA was indifferent to the internship year. Now the AOA president, Aljuni has turned around and now they are campaigning against this bill.

WVSOM has been very quiet about this, and there has been a large round of exams. I didn't even know this was happening until just today! The following is an email chain with a lot of House delegates on it. Whether you support or are against this bill, it's going to be intersting to see what happens.

Hello All!
First, thank you ... for bringing this topic up for discussion. SB 554 passed the Senate and is now in the House of Delegate's Government Organization Committee. There was a "public" hearing yesterday. Seven people spoke, and ALL seven were AGAINST the bill. Due to the testimonies from these seven individuals, the bill will most likely NEVER leave the committee, which makes the bill dead unless it is picked up AFTER the session ends (this Saturday). For those of us who opposed the bill, our work is done. For those of us who support this bill, we have work to do.
I have spoken with the G.O. committee attorney, and she has stated the committee is willing to revisit the bill, IF proper support is received from the public. If you support this bill, you need to call Delegate Morgan (Government Organization chairman) literally RIGHT NOW or tomorrow at 304-340-3192 (or [email protected]) and share your opinion. There is still a chance for this bill to move. Delegate Morgan WANTS to hear from the osteopathic students since we are the future of medicine in West Virginia. I am meeting with him tomorrow. Please e-mail me your thoughts… even if it says yes I support SB 554 or no I do not. I will send copies of the ALL emails I receive. Or, even easier, email him yourself! If you do not get me an email by tomorrow, don't worry. Please, please take the time to write me a short email in the next week or so and I can get these to him. The more opinions he receives the more educated decision he can make.


Here the phone numbers and emails of all the G.O. committee members. Call and/or write as many as you can, because every delegate counts!
Jim Morgan (304) 340-3192 [email protected]
Jim Morgan (304) 340-3192 [email protected]
Dale Martin (304) 340-3130 [email protected]
Patti Eagloski Schoen (304) 340-3141 [email protected]
Ray Canterbury (304) 340-3131 [email protected]
Sam J. Argento (304) 340-3143 [email protected]
Robert D. Beach (304) 340-3153 [email protected]
Samuel J. Cann Sr. [email protected]
Mike Caputo (304) 340-3249 [email protected]
Joe DeLong (304) 340-3220 [email protected]
Jeff Eldridge (304) 340-3174 [email protected]
William G. Hartman (304) 340-317[email protected]
Barbara Hatfield (304) 340-3140 [email protected]
Dave Higgins (304) 340-3152 [email protected]
Tal Hutchins (304) 340-3270 [email protected]
Harold Michael (304) 340-3340 [email protected]
Corey L. Palumbo (304) 340-3119 [email protected]
Daniel Poling (304) 340-3137 [email protected]
Margaret Anne Staggers (304) 340-3197 [email protected]
Randy Swartzmiller (304) 340-3138 [email protected]
Joe Talbott (304) 340-3116 [email protected]
Troy Andes (304) 340-3121 [email protected]
Daryl Cowles (304) 340-3177 [email protected]
Carol Miller (304) 340-3176 [email protected]
Thomas Mike Porter (304) 340-3172 [email protected]
Ruth Rowan (304) 340-3157 [email protected]

I am not supporting or opposing the bill. I am just giving you the options. If you do not understand the SB 554, or what it means to you or your friends, email me and I can fill you in. THIS BILL WILL EFFECT YOUR FUTURE PRACTICE.

Thanks,
....
OMS-IV, WVSOM


-----Original Message-----
From: "..."
Sent 3/3/2008 10:55:18 AM
To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: SB 554

As .... made our class aware of SB 554, I thought it important to send it along to the remainder of the classes as well. I hate mass emails as much as the next person, but this is an important issue that could be influenced by your voice. West Virginia is one of five states that still requires the one year rotating internship, and if this bill passes, the other states are likely to follow suit. This required internship is largely responsible for students seeking allopathic residencies and residencies outside West Virginia. If this bill passes, it does not, by my understanding, deny you the right to complete the rotating internship year if you would choose to do so. I urge you to contact the representative in your area and voice your opinion on this matter. This is a link to an interactive map that gives contact information of the representatives in your district:

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Districts/hd/hd.cfm

Also, Marshall Long, a WVSOM graduate and representative for Mercer County (District 25), is, as far as I can tell, the only osteopathic physician in the House of Delegates and his opinion is no doubt regarded highly in the House on this issue. His email is [email protected].

Thanks for your time,

....
MSIII

-----Original Message-----
From: "..." <[email protected]>
Sent 3/3/2008 12:20:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: SB 554

There is currently a bill in the WV state legislature that would eliminate the requirement of an AOA internship to practice in WV. The bill has already passed the WV senate, and is currently in the house. The AOA is presently campaigning against the bill. Here is the link for SB 554.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_Text_HTML/2008_SESSIONS/RS/BILLS/sb554%20intr.htm

The passage of this bill would probably affect post graduate plans for some of us. If you care for or against, it would probably be useful to contact members of the WV house.

Thanks,

....
Click to expand...
 
I sent an email to Delegate Morgan and I hope it helps to get this bill passed in WV and then in the other 4 states too.
 
The AOA acts to benefit the AOA, not necessarily to benefit osteopathic medicine. Unfortunately, this issue demonstrates this reality perfectly.
 
wanna_be_do said:
The AOA acts to benefit the AOA, not necessarily to benefit osteopathic medicine. Unfortunately, this issue demonstrates this reality perfectly.
Click to expand...

Preachin' the the choir brother. I love it.
 
Truer words have rarely been spoken, wanna. Thus the reason for the decline in AOA membership. Darn near worse than dealing with the government.
 
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