African American residents,how well do you fit In with the Team?

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kg062007

kg062007

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I am looking for someone WHOM IS LIKE ME, that will answer a couple of questions. I am a black male from a low income family, first generation, basically any disadvantage you can think of, that's me. I don't know how to say this, but it is extremely hard for me to fit in, The type of people I grew up around, I cannot talk to about matters such as applying to medical school, or my research, or current governmental issues so I am basically intellectually Isolated. I have no desire to discuss lil wayne or the flavor of love with them.

Those people who I can discuss educational or intellectual matters with, we have nothing in common "culturally", for example in my honors classes there are mostly, spoiled, arrogant, entitled brats who have parents as doctors. I dont think I would be comfortable hanging out with them at their parents country club. I know medical school will be filled with these types of people. This situation leaves me in a tough position, how does a poor black kid from an uneducated family, fit in with these people? Are the falculty understanding of my situation? For example most students in medical school will have family support, I will have none of that since in my family's eyes im just going to school and adding more debt. I know I am rare but I just want to know that I will have some help and support, and some friends who understand my situation. Also how well do you get along with your superiors? Have you experienced much racism from patients?
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I think you should respect and get along with your family first... you owe them more than you can think of... :)
 
I am looking for someone WHOM IS LIKE ME, that will answer a couple of questions. I am a black male from a low income family, first generation, basically any disadvantage you can think of, that's me. I don't know how to say this, but it is extremely hard for me to fit in, The type of people I grew up around, I cannot talk to about matters such as applying to medical school, or my research, or current governmental issues so I am basically intellectually Isolated. I have no desire to discuss lil wayne or the flavor of love with them.

Those people who I can discuss educational or intellectual matters with, we have nothing in common "culturally", for example in my honors classes there are mostly, spoiled, arrogant, entitled brats who have parents as doctors. I dont think I would be comfortable hanging out with them at their parents country club. I know medical school will be filled with these types of people. This situation leaves me in a tough position, how does a poor black kid from an uneducated family, fit in with these people? Are the falculty understanding of my situation? For example most students in medical school will have family support, I will have none of that since in my family's eyes im just going to school and adding more debt. I know I am rare but I just want to know that I will have some help and support, and some friends who understand my situation. Also do you how well do you fit in with the medical team, when doing your rotations?
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I know you wanted responses from people "like you," but I wanted to add two cents.

You describe yourself as a poor black kid from an uneducated family, and you are wondering how you will fit in with spoiled, arrogant, entitled, educated people from other cultural backgrounds. I know this sounds really general and cliche, but you have to appreciate people for their finer attributes, whichever they might possess. You can appreciate an arrogant person for their intelligence, and an uneducated person for their empathy and kindness. Also, don't make generalizations based on these groupings you've described. As you're a poor black kid from an uneducated family, I'm a poor white kid from an uneducated family. I hope you wouldn't look at me and assume I'm arrogant and have a trust fund. Forming these generalizations will lead to prejudging your peers, even if you aren't aware of it or don't intend to do it. Just because someone may be white and educated doesn't mean they grew up privileged or ended up snotty and arrogant. Give people a chance and stop thinking you're SO different. Plenty of people have had to struggle to get into medical school and have done so without family support.

In general, I don't think you should get bent out of shape about your differences from anyone. I don't buy the "celebrate differences" crap. You're going to be surrounded by people who are also working very hard for the same goal as you -- that should be plenty to bond over. Overemphasizing differences = separation, segregation, prejudice, etc.
 
First of all, you will be fine but you have to have a better attitude about your situation. Trust me, I understand your reality and where you are coming from, but you've got to have an open mind. It seems that you are shutting out everyone. Like someone above said, you can find good in a lot of people. For me, the majority of my friends are black, but I have met some amazing white friends who hold it down for me just as my black friends do. These wealthy people you speak of did not have a choice in being rich; just like you didn't have a choice in being poor. Neither of you should hold that against one another. Obviously as a black male, a lot of these people will never understand where you come from, but you can relate to them on a human level. Just give it a chance. The best thing you can do, in becoming friends with these rich kids is to educate them on YOUR reality as a black man in this country who came from humble beginnings. Not only does it create better race relations (for those who actually listen and take to heart what you say) with minorities, but it also improves the medical profession as a whole because these rich kids who you feel just don't understand you now have a different perspective and can thus empathize more with minority patients. Also, don't forget about the people from your past who listen to lil wayne and watch flavor of love. You should be proud of where you come from and what you've been through because if you are anything like me, it has made you a stronger person. Yeah I may be heading to medical school this fall, but that doesn't mean I can't kick it with my boys while listening to lil wayne and speaking in ebonics. I can be myself in that environment and also speak proper English when around people of other races. Do not alienate yourself from your heritage and don't look down upon those who surrounded you growing up because they, for example, like hip hop. By doing this, you can't be a role model to them. Do you realize how important it is to have black male physicians come back to their communities and inspire young black kids to achieve too? The way you are going now, your black colleagues are going to stay away from you because you feel that elements of black culture are stupid and you won't give other people a chance because of your assumption that they are spoiled brats who could never relate to you. You don't want to be alone throughout this process, so you've got to analyze your attitude toward this topic and change it.
 
mdbound1987 said:
First of all, you will be fine but you have to have a better attitude about your situation. Trust me, I understand your reality and where you are coming from, but you've got to have an open mind. It seems that you are shutting out everyone. Like someone above said, you can find good in a lot of people. For me, the majority of my friends are black, but I have met some amazing white friends who hold it down for me just as my black friends do. These wealthy people you speak of did not have a choice in being rich; just like you didn't have a choice in being poor. Neither of you should hold that against one another. Obviously as a black male, a lot of these people will never understand where you come from, but you can relate to them on a human level. Just give it a chance. The best thing you can do, in becoming friends with these rich kids is to educate them on YOUR reality as a black man in this country who came from humble beginnings. Not only does it create better race relations (for those who actually listen and take to heart what you say) with minorities, but it also improves the medical profession as a whole because these rich kids who you feel just don't understand you now have a different perspective and can thus empathize more with minority patients. Also, don't forget about the people from your past who listen to lil wayne and watch flavor of love. You should be proud of where you come from and what you've been through because if you are anything like me, it has made you a stronger person. Yeah I may be heading to medical school this fall, but that doesn't mean I can't kick it with my boys while listening to lil wayne and speaking in ebonics. I can be myself in that environment and also speak proper English when around people of other races. Do not alienate yourself from your heritage and don't look down upon those who surrounded you growing up because they, for example, like hip hop. By doing this, you can't be a role model to them. Do you realize how important it is to have black male physicians come back to their communities and inspire young black kids to achieve too? The way you are going now, your black colleagues are going to stay away from you because you feel that elements of black culture are stupid and you won't give other people a chance because of your assumption that they are spoiled brats who could never relate to you. You don't want to be alone throughout this process, so you've got to analyze your attitude toward this topic and change it.
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Those communities you speak of, that's where I grew up. God I wish there were more young, visible, black people like you there. From the bottom of my heart, I wish so many kids had people like you to look up to instead of 50 Cent.
 
kg062007 said:
I am looking for someone WHOM IS LIKE ME, that will answer a couple of questions. I am a black male from a low income family, first generation, basically any disadvantage you can think of, that's me. I don't know how to say this, but it is extremely hard for me to fit in, The type of people I grew up around, I cannot talk to about matters such as applying to medical school, or my research, or current governmental issues so I am basically intellectually Isolated. I have no desire to discuss lil wayne or the flavor of love with them.

Those people who I can discuss educational or intellectual matters with, we have nothing in common "culturally", for example in my honors classes there are mostly, spoiled, arrogant, entitled brats who have parents as doctors. I dont think I would be comfortable hanging out with them at their parents country club. I know medical school will be filled with these types of people. This situation leaves me in a tough position, how does a poor black kid from an uneducated family, fit in with these people? Are the falculty understanding of my situation? For example most students in medical school will have family support, I will have none of that since in my family's eyes im just going to school and adding more debt. I know I am rare but I just want to know that I will have some help and support, and some friends who understand my situation. Also how well do you get along with your superiors? Have you experienced much racism from patients?
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I am not male but I was the only person of color -Jamaican/British (and the youngest) in most of my university honors courses (started university at age 15). I found that I had more in common than not with the folks who were studying the things that I was studying. I also found plenty of people, while they didn't look like me, were willing to mentor an excellent scholar - my goal in all of my studies. In short, find a good mentor- of any color and background and get what you need to excel. I can also suggest that you take a trip to any HBCU where you will find any number of black male Ph.Ds/MDs who have come from your background and achieved who will "mentor" you if this is the most important thing for you. (In reality, you will find that a good mentor is a good mentor and color doesn't come into the picture). It's a huge myth that your mentor has to be from the same background or ethnicity for you to get good information and assistance.

Debt is debt and education is an expensive long-term goal. When you come to grips with the fact that unless you have scholarships, you are going to have educational debt. You plan your career and debt management so that you are not overwhelmed. In today's world of good information access, you can find research things for yourself and make some good decisions about your debt management. You also do not have to justify pursuit of educational goals with anyone except yourself. If your education is important to you, you will find a way to either earn scholarships or pay for what you need by borrowing.

Opportunities are out there for anyone who has the education and "balls" to do what they want to do. Excellence in scholarship knows no color or ethnicity. It isn't where you come from but where you are headed that counts. When one thing doesn't work, you solve the problem and find something else but ultimately, it won't be your race that achieves success for you but your own individual efforts. If you doubt this, read anything by Ben Carson, MD - chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Hopkins.

In short, not coming from the same background as the folks in your classes is meaningless in the long-term scheme of things. When I operate at my hospital, I like to play "funk" music. (Yes, I like Lil Wayne and I am female so you can write me off too.) Most of the people on my team (country music enthusiasts) had never heard my music but everyone enjoys working with me and the vibe. In short, people will take you as they find you if you give back the same respect.

And yes, I was one of those "spoiled" "entitled" "arrogant" "brats" who had a doctor for a father (aunt, uncle and cousins who are physicians too). The interesting thing is that none of that mattered when it came to my achievements. I could also fit in quite well at the "country club" because I played varsity tennis at my university and still play basketball any chance I get. I still had to do the studying, put in the hours and master the material to get what I needed to become a good scientist and later a good physician. My guess is that you are going to have to do the same thing with your background too.
 
njbmd said:
I am not male but I was the only person of color -Jamaican/British (and the youngest) in most of my university honors courses (started university at age 15). I found that I had more in common than not with the folks who were studying the things that I was studying. I also found plenty of people, while they didn't look like me, were willing to mentor an excellent scholar - my goal in all of my studies. In short, find a good mentor- of any color and background and get what you need to excel. I can also suggest that you take a trip to any HBCU where you will find any number of black male Ph.Ds/MDs who have come from your background and achieved who will "mentor" you if this is the most important thing for you. (In reality, you will find that a good mentor is a good mentor and color doesn't come into the picture). It's a huge myth that your mentor has to be from the same background or ethnicity for you to get good information and assistance.

Debt is debt and education is an expensive long-term goal. When you come to grips with the fact that unless you have scholarships, you are going to have educational debt. You plan your career and debt management so that you are not overwhelmed. In today's world of good information access, you can find research things for yourself and make some good decisions about your debt management. You also do not have to justify pursuit of educational goals with anyone except yourself. If your education is important to you, you will find a way to either earn scholarships or pay for what you need by borrowing.

Opportunities are out there for anyone who has the education and "balls" to do what they want to do. Excellence in scholarship knows no color or ethnicity. It isn't where you come from but where you are headed that counts. When one thing doesn't work, you solve the problem and find something else but ultimately, it won't be your race that achieves success for you but your own individual efforts. If you doubt this, read anything by Ben Carson, MD - chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Hopkins.

In short, not coming from the same background as the folks in your classes is meaningless in the long-term scheme of things. When I operate at my hospital, I like to play "funk" music. (Yes, I like Lil Wayne and I am female so you can write me off too.) Most of the people on my team (country music enthusiasts) had never heard my music but everyone enjoys working with me and the vibe. In short, people will take you as they find you if you give back the same respect.

And yes, I was one of those "spoiled" "entitled" "arrogant" "brats" who had a doctor for a father (aunt, uncle and cousins who are physicians too). The interesting thing is that none of that mattered when it came to my achievements. I could also fit in quite well at the "country club" because I played varsity tennis at my university and still play basketball any chance I get. I still had to do the studying, put in the hours and master the material to get what I needed to become a good scientist and later a good physician. My guess is that you are going to have to do the same thing with your background too.
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Thanks illegallysmooth. I agree with njbmd in that finding a mentor at an HBCU is a great idea. I attended Morehouse College for undergrad so I can assure you that these schools have excellent black mentors, many of which came from backgrounds like yours. Even the black people who came from wealthy backgrounds (more students than professors) can relate to you as well because they know the struggles black people go through. These people are all highly intelligent, but like I said in my previous post...do not approach people like this thinking they have the same mentality as yourself because they don't. They embrace black culture and are also very intellectual as well. They are all about keeping connections with the hood in order to make a difference, even if they aren't from the hood themselves.
 
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njbmd said:
And yes, I was one of those "spoiled" "entitled" "arrogant" "brats" who had a doctor for a father (aunt, uncle and cousins who are physicians too). The interesting thing is that none of that mattered when it came to my achievements. I could also fit in quite well at the "country club" because I played varsity tennis at my university and still play basketball any chance I get. I still had to do the studying, put in the hours and master the material to get what I needed to become a good scientist and later a good physician. My guess is that you are going to have to do the same thing with your background too.
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njbmd, I know you are like the "god of all wisdom" on SDN but do you really think coming from an educated family of physicians didn't play a role in your achievements? Chances are you grew up in an enviornment that promoted and valued education, and you always had a support systems as you went through all of your studies. I live in Mississippi, and here if you are a black male and cannot shoot a ball, you are basically seen as worthless,... pople here dont get the value of education so i have no support system for this long hard road. I told my mom i wanted to be a doctor and she replied "Why? Your uncle makes 60,000 a year driving trucks, you can do that." Id imagine your parents reacted differently.
 
kg062007 said:
njbmd, I know you are like the "god of all wisdom" on SDN but do you really think coming from an educated family of physicians didn't play a role in your achievements? Chances are you grew up in an enviornment that promoted and valued education, and you always had a support systems as you went through all of your studies. I live in Mississippi, and here if you are a black male and cannot shoot a ball, you are basically seen as worthless,... pople here dont get the value of education so i have no support system for this long hard road. I told my mom i wanted to be a doctor and she replied "Why? Your uncle makes 60,000 a year driving trucks, you can do that." Id imagine your parents reacted differently.
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I will let njbmd answer your question, but I wanted to know...why can't you be one of those people who go back to their communities and show these kids that there is more to life than trying to go to the nba or become a rapper? You will be a in-the-flesh testimony to what hard work can do. Many of them are probably under the impression that because of their socio-economic situation, all they can do is try to be a pro athlete or entertainer. Use your success story as a testimony to those who you can inspire. If you have no support system, you won't find one if you are not open to the support that some of your med school classmates will be able to provide you with, no matter what background they come from.
 
We have enough external pressures and roadblocks as it is; you don't need to be further burdened by additional self-imposed baggage. The fact of the matter is that no matter what medical school or residency you enter, there will be no one with a story like your story. But carrying around a "your blues ain't like mine" chip on your shoulder is going to alienate you. You will not be the only person who had to overcome a buttload of obstacles, you will not be the only person with no family support -however you chose to define "support," and you will not be the only person from the sticks, the ghetto, the barrio, the trailer park, etc. What you don't want to be is one of the people still focusing on that while every one else is studying anatomy.

Your classmates are more than a bunch of spoiled, entitled, arrogant folks. To think that is not only unfair to them, but also unfair to you and unfair to all of our people who put up with real limitations and obstacles so we could even dream of wearing a white coat.
 
I mean this in the nicest of ways: I think you're a little bitter (understandably so), and this is clouding your view of the people around you. There are a few of those "arrogant spoiled brats" at every school, but from my experience most of them don't make it past gen chem 2. You have to open yourself up, and ignore backgrounds; you need to see the person and judge them for who they are, not there background. By doing the latter you're being as close-minded, and arrogant as you think the people around you are. I think I can safely say that all of my friends had an easier time than me (financially) growing up, but it doesn't matter to them or me because we have similar interests, goals, and sense of humor, so background really isn't an issue.
 
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mdbound1987 said:
I will let njbmd answer your question, but I wanted to know...why can't you be one of those people who go back to their communities and show these kids that there is more to life than trying to go to the nba or become a rapper? You will be a in-the-flesh testimony to what hard work can do. Many of them are probably under the impression that because of their socio-economic situation, all they can do is try to be a pro athlete or entertainer. Use your success story as a testimony to those who you can inspire. If you have no support system, you won't find one if you are not open to the support that some of your med school classmates will be able to provide you with, no matter what background they come from.
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That is exactly what i want to do.... and i dont think most of you understand, that i realize im not going to be the only one from a bad situation, but for me the psychological aspects of geting through this training is going to be hell...

Do you ever wonder why there are so few professional black men, and so many black male prisoners compared to other groups? From childhood, negative images of our sel are embedded into our subconscious by teachers, role models, the media and society in general..

for example- you are good for sports nothing else
you cant succeed in academics, so why should we teach you
if you are smart you are a nerd, outcast, or weak

No other group deals with such academic prejudices!
 
kg062007 said:
That is exactly what i want to do.... and i dont think most of you understand, that i realize im not going to be the only one from a bad situation, but for me the psychological aspects of geting through this training is going to be hell...

Do you ever wonder why there are so few professional black men, and so many black male prisoners compared to other groups? From childhood, negative images of our sel are embedded into our subconscious by teachers, role models, the media and society in general..

for example- you are good for sports nothing else
you cant succeed in academics, so why should we teach you
if you are smart you are a nerd, outcast, or weak

No other group deals with such academic prejudices!
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Every member of a minority goes through some kind of prejudice (academic or otherwise). You need only look at that Arizona law to understand what Latinos will have to go and do go through. I won't even get started on the negative images that abound with Native Americans. Certainly not all Muslims are terrorists either but in some areas, Muslim children are beaten at school and called names.

Asians are stereotyped as being quiet, studious and smart. What if you are Asian and you are anything but the above? My Asian buddies are no smarter or quieter than myself. In short, African American men do not have a "lock" on being the butt of the stereotypes by those in a majority culture. If you allow others to define you, they will and to their standards. Don't think for a second that the accomplishments of my family negates the stereotypical prejudices that I get because my skin is black.

At a VA hospital, a medicine intern who was white walked by me several times before "bitching" to the nursing staff in front of me that no surgical resident had come to see her patient when I was sitting there with the chart completing the consult (I was the chief). The nursing staff just let her rant. She couldn't imagine that the chief surgery resident was a black woman even though I was sitting there in a lab coat with Chief Resident and my name on it dressed in scrubs and wearing a surgeon's cap.

On another occasion, I was rounding in the Emergency Department of an outside hospital when the attending introduced all of the other residents (who were white or Asian) as Dr. So and So but introduced me by my Christian name. It didn't make any difference that I was the senior resident of the group, in his mind, I didn't deserve to be called Dr.

My cousin who is chief of pediatric neurosurgery at an urban hospital was constantly handed bedpans by patients when she came to round even though she was dressed in a Chanel suit and lab coat with her name and MD/Ph.D on the pocket.


So dude, get a grip. No amount of money, or education will erase your color or prejudice that it engenders in some people. Prejudice is is in American culture and it's here to stay. It will come from immigrants and it will come from majority Americans. You either wallow in your "my background won't allow me to fit in" or you grab whatever you need, do excellent work and keep moving forward. "The biggest lies that are told are the ones that we tell ourselves."

If you decide before you even get into medicine, that your background won't let you succeed (or even "fit in"), then you have failed yourself. If you don't succeed, it's on you (and your head-trip) and not your ethnic group because we (as black folk) can and do succeed every day.

Just read some of the posts by Doctajay or Black Surgeon or BlackMD2B any number of brothas here who are just quietly getting the job done and not making any excuses. If you use the search function (it's at the top of the page) you can find their thread in PreAllo. You erase stupidity by not buying into it.

BTW, in case you are wondering how I fit in with the team??? I run the team now so they fit in with me.
 
njbmd said:
BTW, in case you are wondering how I fit in with the team??? I run the team now so they fit in with me.
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:bow: "you just got served" :D
 
kg062007 said:
Do you ever wonder why there are so few professional black men, and so many black male prisoners compared to other groups? From childhood, negative images of our sel are embedded into our subconscious by teachers, role models, the media and society in general..
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You sound like you've had too many late night dorm conversations about our plight and why we still haven't received our 40 acres. Black men in gangs, jail, on probation, on drugs or whatever don't have anything to do with you. Every black doctor I know has ugly stories about racism; some of my worst were actually caused by black patients. When it happens, yeah, it sucks. But we keep moving. Now as an attending, I'm in a position to tear a new one in anyone who even remotely disrespects me. How did I get here? I dusted myself off and kept moving.

You sound like you're in need of a gutcheck. Okay, here goes. Every time you feel like every d-bag in town is blocking your path, you need to watch the Eyes On the Prize segment about the Littlerock 9. Look at those brothers and sisters walking to school. Look at what they had to deal with before they even stepped into the intellectual battleground.
1432841313_8dd091671d.jpg


Ask yourself, "Is my situation worse than that?" If not, then you need to keep moving.

kg062007 said:
No other group deals with such academic prejudices!
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And no other group looks this good doin' it.

Stay up.
 
kg062007 said:
That is exactly what i want to do.... and i dont think most of you understand, that i realize im not going to be the only one from a bad situation, but for me the psychological aspects of geting through this training is going to be hell...

Do you ever wonder why there are so few professional black men, and so many black male prisoners compared to other groups? From childhood, negative images of our sel are embedded into our subconscious by teachers, role models, the media and society in general..

for example- you are good for sports nothing else
you cant succeed in academics, so why should we teach you
if you are smart you are a nerd, outcast, or weak

No other group deals with such academic prejudices!
Click to expand...

This is true and it's great that you understand that, but the fact is...it is a reality and something black people have to deal with. However, you can be an agent of change by showing what you have accomplished. It is a shame that black kids have to go through what they do, but if more people like you and I go back and try to make a difference, things can change. Once again, when you become friends with people of the majority, you can enlighten them about this sad reality for black people. They honestly have no idea and you cannot expect them to. If you gain their respect as a friend, they will at least hear you out and hopefully gain insight into what we have to go through.
 
That story about the little rock 9 was really inspirational, thanks for the vid. And thanks to everyone you gave serious answers that actually helped, I didnt have many trolls (lyss), I know that racism is everywhere, but growing up in mississippi, racism is on another level, trust me. I have been fighting against it all my life, and before college i had absolutly no interaction with people of other races, the mississippi delta is basically still segregated. The college i attend is about 60/40, and I have made great friends of all races..... I guess what i was nervous about was the fact that medical school will be really draining and i wouldn't have anyone to connect with about this but my classmates will be going through it too, and hopefully some of them will make good friends. And finally, one bad trait that I picked up from my family I will try to eliminate, meaning I will try not to prejudge others, and coming from a mississippi boy it will take a lil practice
 
kg062007 said:
I am looking for someone WHOM IS LIKE ME, that will answer a couple of questions. I am a black male from a low income family, first generation, basically any disadvantage you can think of, that's me. I don't know how to say this, but it is extremely hard for me to fit in, The type of people I grew up around, I cannot talk to about matters such as applying to medical school, or my research, or current governmental issues so I am basically intellectually Isolated. I have no desire to discuss lil wayne or the flavor of love with them.

Those people who I can discuss educational or intellectual matters with, we have nothing in common "culturally", for example in my honors classes there are mostly, spoiled, arrogant, entitled brats who have parents as doctors. I dont think I would be comfortable hanging out with them at their parents country club. I know medical school will be filled with these types of people. This situation leaves me in a tough position, how does a poor black kid from an uneducated family, fit in with these people? Are the falculty understanding of my situation? For example most students in medical school will have family support, I will have none of that since in my family's eyes im just going to school and adding more debt. I know I am rare but I just want to know that I will have some help and support, and some friends who understand my situation. Also how well do you get along with your superiors? Have you experienced much racism from patients?
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How do you "know" that med school will be filled with these types of people?

I went through undergrad and med school with a combination of scholarships and loans. I worked at a part time job while in undergrad to make extra money. My parents, as immigrants, just didn't have the financial resources to pay for school, and I wasn't about to make them.

Sure, there are spoiled rich kids in every med school. But they're hardly in the majority, and some of them still manage to be decent human beings despite their wealthy backgrounds. ;)

In the meantime, you might be interested in the Disadvantaged Before Medicine sub-forum? Maybe you can learn something from Neuronix's story.
 
I can only speak out for the non-HBCU because that's where I went. I did find a mentor at my university and she was african american. You will be amazed about situations that professors have gone through.. Similiiar situation to yours and probably worse than yours, although I don't know your total situation. She definitely came out the trenches and into the light. How sometimes they feel as though they themselves don't fit in.
It sucks believe me I know, sometimes you gotta leave family alone until you get there. Realize that this is your life and when their gone, you'll still have to live with yourself. Make decisions that long term you will be happy about. It took me a while to learn that!
This is all undergrad though, but I think it's the same. It's hard to say but you have to make yourself fit in, you can't think of the situation as "them" and "us". Trust me I have had some run ins with racist situations and people. Not just white but black. It's a crazy world, you just gotta know what your contributing and know that you are just as good and you deserve a piece of the pie just as much as they do. At the end of the day the great equalizer is education, obviously both parties are getting the same one. You CAN fit in when they invite you to the frat parties, country clubs, beach houses. The cool thing is the grass is greener on the other side. You may not think that your life is that great, but some people are curious. People continually want to know what is it like on the other side. I know my family didn't have that much, we were lower-middle class, two kids, single parent household. I have no shame or no regrets of the way I grew up. My mom did go to school and she went back to college the same time I did and she is now a nurse. I have had plenty of white/black friends different social status say they love my family and appreciate my uniqueness.
I was lucky in that I did grow up with a diverse population but nothing prepared me for the real thing, and no not everything is going to be peachy..There are some dosh bags that will throw what they have in your face, but every dosh bag there is an equally cool people. Professors can't do anything to you so long as you know what your doing, and you back your stuff up. IF your on point, they can't say nothing about you..At the end of the day they may be racist but as you get higher in education I find most people tend to stick with the guns.. Remember they have a profession they are trying to protect. There is a system of checks and balances.. So get out there and do your thang!
 
Great conversation here guys. I basically went to all black schools from Kindergarten to College. When I started medical school there were 11 black people out of 195 medstudents in my class, and I was only 1 of 3 black males. So that was definitely a different environment that what I was raised in. I remember wondering whether it would be hard to make white and asian friends, or whether I was even smart enough to compete with my white and asian classmates, because of all I had "heard". But all that I had "heard" was just that, ramblings from people too ignorant to know the truth. My black friend who got a 24 on his MCAT, was in the top 5 in our entire class. My white friend who got a 24 on his MCAT honored almost every class during our first 2 years and killed step 1. Some of my white and asian classmates who got a 30+ on their MCAT had to repeat first year or second year. Any concept of how a certain race or socioeconomic background was supposed to perform in school was completely turned around when I arrived to school.

First I realized that even though I was one black guy out of a sea of white and asian classmates, that my classmates were quite diverse. Some of them were kids of missionaries in Africa or South America, so they grew up with minorities and spoke their language until they came back to America when they were 15. Some where the first in their family to do medicine. Some were the 5th generation to go to medical school and their parents and grandparents started different departments in the hospital. Some of the white and asian folks really set out to be my friend, some wanted nothing to do with me. All of this was so different from what I had expected, and I think you will find that same thing when you start medical school. Give people the benefit of proving to you what type of person they will be, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
 
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DoctaJay said:
Great conversation here guys. I basically went to all back schools from Kindergarten to College. When I started medical school there were 11 black people out of 195 medstudents in my class, and I was only 1 of 3 black males. So that was definitely a different environment that what I was raised in. I remember wondering whether it would be hard to make friends, or whether I was even smart enough to compete with my white and asian classmates, because of all I had "heard". But all that I had "heard" was just that, ramblings from people to ignorant to know the truth. My black friend who got a 24 on his MCAT, was in the top 5 in our entire class. My white friend who got a 24 on his MCAT honored almost every class during our first 2 years and killed step 1. Some of my white and asian classmates who got a 30+ on their MCAT had to repeat first year or second year. Any concept of how a certain race or socioeconomic background was supposed to perform in school was completely turned around when I arrived to school.

First I realized that even though I was one black guy out of a sea of white and asian classmates, that my classmates were quite diverse. Some of them were kids of missionaries in Africa or South America, so they grew up with minorities and spoke their language until they came back to America when they were 15. Some where the first in their family to do medicine. Some were the 5th generation to go to medical school and their parents and grandparents started different departments in the hospital. Some of the white and asian folks really set out to be my friend, some wanted nothing to do with me. All of this was so different from what I had expected, and I think you will find that same thing when you start medical school. Give people the benefit of proving to you what type of person they will be, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
kg062007 said:
That is exactly what i want to do.... and i dont think most of you understand, that i realize im not going to be the only one from a bad situation, but for me the psychological aspects of geting through this training is going to be hell...

Do you ever wonder why there are so few professional black men, and so many black male prisoners compared to other groups? From childhood, negative images of our sel are embedded into our subconscious by teachers, role models, the media and society in general..

for example- you are good for sports nothing else
you cant succeed in academics, so why should we teach you
if you are smart you are a nerd, outcast, or weak

No other group deals with such academic prejudices!
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This is absolutely true. I am black male at a majority white school, and people just do not expect you to excel. Friends and family alike. When you come from a place where academics is cherished it gives you a boost and some support. As black male you not only have the academic stigma against you but also the prejudices for being black. Which njbmd illustrated in some of her andeoctal examples.

njbmd said:
Every member of a minority goes through some kind of prejudice (academic or otherwise). You need only look at that Arizona law to understand what Latinos will have to go and do go through. I won't even get started on the negative images that abound with Native Americans. Certainly not all Muslims are terrorists either but in some areas, Muslim children are beaten at school and called names.
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This is true, but I think academic prejudice is more detrimental in this case than any other. To be honest I do not believe you can fully relate. You are from a family where academics is praised and supported. If you are from a family where it is not, it can be very difficult to keep moving further. I can only imagine calling my mother about a bad grade and asking for advice and hearing "I told you that you should just be a truck driver." That is psychological blow, compounded by the fact that during the most rigorous academic time in your life you are surrounded by people who (in instances) expect you to fail or not perform up to par.


njbmd said:
Asians are stereotyped as being quiet, studious and smart. What if you are Asian and you are anything but the above? My Asian buddies are no smarter or quieter than myself. In short, African American men do not have a "lock" on being the butt of the stereotypes by those in a majority culture. If you allow others to define you, they will and to their standards. Don't think for a second that the accomplishments of my family negates the stereotypical prejudices that I get because my skin is black.
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Again, would'nt an acadmeic prejudice be more detrimental in academic enviroment. If your asian friend wanted a chance to do stand-up yes that assmued sterotype of an Asian being quite, studious and smart (not saying comedians are not intelligent) is going to be a harmful. In the academic setting.. not so much, in may infact be to your friend's benifit. Stereotypes have a strong affect, more so than we want to believe. After reading some research on the sterotype threat, I came to that conclusion.


kg062007 said:
That story about the little rock 9 was really inspirational, thanks for the vid. And thanks to everyone you gave serious answers that actually helped, I didnt have many trolls (lyss), I know that racism is everywhere, but growing up in mississippi, racism is on another level, trust me. I have been fighting against it all my life, and before college i had absolutly no interaction with people of other races, the mississippi delta is basically still segregated. The college i attend is about 60/40, and I have made great friends of all races..... I guess what i was nervous about was the fact that medical school will be really draining and i wouldn't have anyone to connect with about this but my classmates will be going through it too, and hopefully some of them will make good friends. And finally, one bad trait that I picked up from my family I will try to eliminate, meaning I will try not to prejudge others, and coming from a mississippi boy it will take a lil practice
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Man, I feel your pain. Trying to make it with soo many obstacles is hard. In addition, it is hard not to be bitter. You look around and see that some people have been given every opportunity to succeed, and seems like you have been given every opportunity to fail. The fact is the odds are against you, that is just how to the cookie crumples. I know people are hard on you for making excuses for succeeding or fitting in. But, the fact of the matter is your excuses and concerns are valid. It is the reason why a lot of black males do not make it. It is not because we don't want to, or we are too lazy. It is the fact that some obstacles defeat us. Ben Carson story is such a hit not because it well written (although it is) but because it illustrates a story that is truly extraordinary. A black male from the inner city rises to pinnacle of academia and medicine. This rarely happens...In order to succeed given your circumstances you are going to have to be extraordinary, something really amazing. That will not be easy, like I said odds are against you. But if are you like me and like a good challenge and will rise to the occasion. Good luck looking at the statistics, we are going to need it.
 
I don't blame you at all for feeling this way, you live in Mississippi, and not to make biases against the state, it still has some major racial/discrimination issues that it needs to contend with, in comparison to other states. I think the best thing for you to do is to get out of that negative and pessimistic enviornment that you've been exposed to all your life, and become exposed to ones that will make you more positive and optimistic in order to get a better attitude as a result. People have mentioned seeking mentors, but I think you need to move somewhere different/change environments to make that happen. It seems like there has always been this sense of dichotomy that has existed in various aspects of your life, and rarely any gray areas. Go out and seek those gray areas, so you can embrace the fact that there is diversity in everyone. Stepping out of that box (literally & figuratively) that you've been kept in will allow you to do so and you may be surprised and enlightened by what you find. Discrimination and racism whether subtle or not is everywhere, and the anecdotes that's been posted on this thread has proven that. Everyone's experience will be different, and I'm emphasizing that you should go and see for yourself what life in the medical field will offer you, in order to answer your questions.
 
Techmed07 said:
This is true, but I think academic prejudice is more detrimental in this case than any other. To be honest I do not believe you can fully relate. You are from a family where academics is praised and supported. If you are from a family where it is not, it can be very difficult to keep moving further. I can only imagine calling my mother about a bad grade and asking for advice and hearing "I told you that you should just be a truck driver." That is psychological blow, compounded by the fact that during the most rigorous academic time in your life you are surrounded by people who (in instances) expect you to fail or not perform up to par.
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Exactly! There are so many things in academics that hold black males back, its like a 5'2 asian guy trying to make it to the NBA, just kidding
icon10.gif


but seriously, black females double the number of black males in college, and even professional school. Has anyone ever stopped to think why this is? Black women usually get more support to excel academically, kids from educated families get more suppot to excel academically. Njbmd, sure yove faced prejudice for being black, but how much of that was from your own friends and family? I can't count the number of times people said maybe you should just play ball... like he said, you cannot fully relate
 
Kg and TecMed I can definitely relate and feel where you guys are coming from. And it really has nothing to with being "bitter", "having an attitude", or "shutting people out". Some people will never truly understand what we're going through. I have many of the same worries. It may seem a bit weird but I feel somewhat relieved to know that there are individuals out there like myself that are going through somewhat of the same struggle. And not to totally discredit the earlier post about HBCUs, but I also attended the school mentioned and well, when I was there, there weren't many of those mirror image "mentors" (but that's a completely different topic). All I can say guys is stay encouraged, if it is meant to be we shall prevail. And I intend to return to my community and inspire others like myself to hopefully curb this nasty cycle.
 
Techmed07 said:
This is true, but I think academic prejudice is more detrimental in this case than any other. To be honest I do not believe you can fully relate. You are from a family where academics is praised and supported. If you are from a family where it is not, it can be very difficult to keep moving further. I can only imagine calling my mother about a bad grade and asking for advice and hearing "I told you that you should just be a truck driver." That is psychological blow, compounded by the fact that during the most rigorous academic time in your life you are surrounded by people who (in instances) expect you to fail or not perform up to par.
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I think it's interesting that there's the insistence that if you're not EXACTLY in the OP's shoes (i.e. black, male, disadvantaged community, uneducated family) that you have NO idea what he's going through.

I did grow up in a family where academics was praised and supported, but if I ever called my mother about a bad grade and (even worse) asked for advice, all I would have gotten is an earful of abuse. "You're clearly too stupid to be a doctor, so give up now." "Why are you even bothering, since you're not going to be good enough to make it?"

And besides that, WTF is my mother going to know about grades? She never finished college and barely spoke English. No, whenever I had a discouraging moment (and trust me, there were MANY over the past decade or so) I had to support and motivate myself. Who else is going to force you to get up and get moving at 4 AM each day? Certainly not your parents and your friends.

No matter what your background, almost all of your motivation and "support" has to come from yourself. Being disadvantaged makes it harder, but it doesn't mean that your peers will "never" be able to relate.
 
CatchingUp said:
Kg and TecMed I can definitely relate and feel where you guys are coming from. And it really has nothing to with being "bitter", "having an attitude", or "shutting people out". Some people will never truly understand what we're going through. I have many of the same worries. It may seem a bit weird but I feel somewhat relieved to know that there are individuals out there like myself that are going through somewhat of the same struggle. And not to totally discredit the earlier post about HBCUs, but I also attended the school mentioned and well, when I was there, there weren't many of those mirror image "mentors" (but that's a completely different topic). All I can say guys is stay encouraged, if it is meant to be we shall prevail. And I intend to return to my community and inspire others like myself to hopefully curb this nasty cycle.
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Not to sound too aggressive, but if you went to Morehouse and couldn't find a black mentor...not one professor, administrator, alumnus...then it shows that you are not as open as you may think. I can easily name 10+ mentors whose cell numbers I can call and ask for anything and it would be done. Like I said in an earlier post, I understand/relate to kg's reality. I am from detroit, michigan. Although there is not as much blatant racism as in mississippi (I know because my family is from there and I see what my cousins go through), there is def more of the mentality, in the black community, that life is about getting money and respect...education means nothing. And in detroit, the sad reality is, if you don't get respect, you take respect (kill someone who disrespects you). The worst public school system ever resides in detroit too. So to say I don't understand this reality is bs. I've lived it, yet I am still open to various types of people. You are wrong...Kg is bitter/shutting people out, but he has a valid reason to feel this way. He has been shaped by personal experiences like we all have and it is not his fault. However, that does not mean that he should still continue to have this attitude moving forward in the future. Where he is coming from is understandable due to his experiences in life; he just needs to change to move forward and will miss out on a lot of good people otherwise.
 
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smq123 said:
I think it's interesting that there's the insistence that if you're not EXACTLY in the OP's shoes (i.e. black, male, disadvantaged community, uneducated family) that you have NO idea what he's going through.

I did grow up in a family where academics was praised and supported, but if I ever called my mother about a bad grade and (even worse) asked for advice, all I would have gotten is an earful of abuse. "You're clearly too stupid to be a doctor, so give up now." "Why are you even bothering, since you're not going to be good enough to make it?"

And besides that, WTF is my mother going to know about grades? She never finished college and barely spoke English. No, whenever I had a discouraging moment (and trust me, there were MANY over the past decade or so) I had to support and motivate myself. Who else is going to force you to get up and get moving at 4 AM each day? Certainly not your parents and your friends.

No matter what your background, almost all of your motivation and "support" has to come from yourself. Being disadvantaged makes it harder, but it doesn't mean that your peers will "never" be able to relate.
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I understand what you are saying and you may understand what it means to go through certain aspects of his existence; however, you will NEVER know what it means to be a black male in this country. There are so many negative aspects of life that black males deal with that you just cannot relate to. It's not your fault and I would never hold that against you, but you can't relate unless you are a black male. I do agree wholeheartedly with your statement about being your own motivation though.
 
smq123 said:
I think it's interesting that there's the insistence that if you're not EXACTLY in the OP's shoes (i.e. black, male, disadvantaged community, uneducated family) that you have NO idea what he's going through..
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I never said that. I just said that some individuals cannot fully relate.

smq123 said:
I did grow up in a family where academics was praised and supported, but if I ever called my mother about a bad grade and (even worse) asked for advice, all I would have gotten is an earful of abuse. "You're clearly too stupid to be a doctor, so give up now." "Why are you even bothering, since you're not going to be good enough to make it?"
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I am sorry that your mother was actually discouraging and not supportive. This kind of goes counter to the statement you said earlier.

smq123 said:
And besides that, WTF is my mother going to know about grades? She never finished college and barely spoke English. No, whenever I had a discouraging moment (and trust me, there were MANY over the past decade or so) I had to support and motivate myself. Who else is going to force you to get up and get moving at 4 AM each day? Certainly not your parents and your friends.

No matter what your background, almost all of your motivation and "support" has to come from yourself. Being disadvantaged makes it harder, but it doesn't mean that your peers will "never" be able to relate.
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I think you underestimate how much a supportive enviroment can help you achieve. Ill try to get some papers that illustrates my point.
 
Techmed07 said:
I am sorry that your mother was actually discouraging and not supportive. This kind of goes counter to the statement you said earlier.
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It's complicated, in that they wanted their children to succeed...on THEIR terms. That's not very supportive, it's just being restrictive.

Techmed07 said:
I think you underestimate how much a supportive enviroment can help you achieve. Ill try to get some papers that illustrates my point.
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Papers are fine, but you can't necessarily correlate someone's experience (i.e. mine) with what studies "say."

I'm not saying that a supportive environment isn't useful - of course it is. But I also wouldn't say that it's essential, or claim that the lack of a supportive environment is why you can't succeed. Lots of med students (and lawyers, and MBAs, etc.) go through life with little to no support. And, like I said, the moments that are most discouraging happen when you won't have access to support.

Finally, assuming that you won't be able to make supportive friends and colleagues during your undergrad and med school career is, frankly, a little short-sighted. That's like saying that you can never marry someone from a different ethnic background, or even from a different culture, because you won't have anything in common. Lots of people do, and do so successfully. What makes you so different that you can't?
 
kg062007 said:
Exactly! There are so many things in academics that hold black males back, its like a 5'2 asian guy trying to make it to the NBA, just kidding
icon10.gif


but seriously, black females double the number of black males in college, and even professional school. Has anyone ever stopped to think why this is? Black women usually get more support to excel academically, kids from educated families get more suppot to excel academically. Njbmd, sure yove faced prejudice for being black, but how much of that was from your own friends and family? I can't count the number of times people said maybe you should just play ball... like he said, you cannot fully relate
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I don't have have the "experience" of jumping out of a third story window to know that it's going to hurt when I hit the ground. Experience isn't the best teacher, wisdom is the best teacher. It's a myth that you have to "experience" similar experiences as another in order to "relate" to them. It's that "can't- relate" attitude that will keep many talented people out of positions. You can decide tomorrow that you want to "relate" to success and get the job done. Anything less is a whiny excuse but you just keep looking for them don't you?
 
Let me just start off by saying, i have been a member of SDN for a few years and have noticed that there were people who consistantly gave great advice, Docta Jay and NJMBD being a couple. Dr j, i respect your advice and think it is the best i got so far, But i never expected NJBMD to call me a whiner because i said she couldn't fully relate to my situation.... that's like me telling a woman who is in labor to "stop your bitching, i know it hurts but it can't be that bad".... Also i can't believe a surgeon said experience is not the best teacher wisdom is???? I don't know if there is a concrete definition for wisdom, but i got this one from merriam-webster-

1 a : accumulated philosophic or scientific learning : knowledge b : ability to discern inner qualities and relationships : insight c : good sense : judgment d : generally accepted belief

I pretty sure a person can aquire all of th philosophic and scientific knowledge they want to about performing a liver transplant, but if you put a scapel in their hand would they be able to do it? No

I think what has happned in this thread is a couple of moderators (smq123,NJBMD) have recieved a couple of bruises to thier egos and god-complexes, Saying that somebody cannot fully relate to you situation is not an insult, its a fact

and as far as relating to success goes, i have done that, and will continue to do that despite whatever situation i am put in,
 
mdbound1987 said:
Not to sound too aggressive, but if you went to Morehouse and couldn't find a black mentor...not one professor, administrator, alumnus...then it shows that you are not as open as you may think. I can easily name 10+ mentors whose cell numbers I can call and ask for anything and it would be done. Like I said in an earlier post, I understand/relate to kg's reality. I am from detroit, michigan. Although there is not as much blatant racism as in mississippi (I know because my family is from there and I see what my cousins go through), there is def more of the mentality, in the black community, that life is about getting money and respect...education means nothing. And in detroit, the sad reality is, if you don't get respect, you take respect (kill someone who disrespects you). The worst public school system ever resides in detroit too. So to say I don't understand this reality is bs. I've lived it, yet I am still open to various types of people. You are wrong...Kg is bitter/shutting people out, but he has a valid reason to feel this way. He has been shaped by personal experiences like we all have and it is not his fault. However, that does not mean that he should still continue to have this attitude moving forward in the future. Where he is coming from is understandable due to his experiences in life; he just needs to change to move forward and will miss out on a lot of good people otherwise.
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I'm not sure when you went to Morehouse but like I said WHEN I was there the pickings were slim to none. Most of my professors were NOT black males from an underprivileged background. Heck, most of my professors were not even BLACK!!! So, it had nothing to do with me not being open to finding a mentor. But thank you for your input. Again, I can empathize with where the OP is coming from. That is all.
 
kg062007 said:
I think what has happned in this thread is a couple of moderators (smq123,NJBMD) have recieved a couple of bruises to thier egos and god-complexes, Saying that somebody cannot fully relate to you situation is not an insult, its a fact
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So, wait.

Several mods, including DoctaJay AND njbmd, have told you that your background will not prevent you from accomplishing what you want, that you WILL make friends, and that you will not go through medical training feeling incredibly isolated. There is another mod who is more, if not equally, disadvantaged to you, and he is being extremely successful, but it does not seem like you read his story or got anything from it. Rather than take the inspirational part from those messages, you choose to be insulting instead?

Never mind. You're right. No one will ever be able to relate, you will be lonely, you will not make friends in med school or residency (should you decide to pursue this path all the way), and you'll be miserable.

I don't think njbmd is being insulting, and I certainly wasn't trying to be, but I don't think you realize how your posts are coming across as.
 
kg062007 said:
I think what has happned in this thread is a couple of moderators (smq123,NJBMD) have recieved a couple of bruises to thier egos and god-complexes, Saying that somebody cannot fully relate to you situation is not an insult, its a fact
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I'm telling you, in no uncertain terms, as a black man who has been through undergrad, medical school, residency, fellowship, and is faculty at a teaching hospital, the more you focus on your differences, the more you will alienate yourself. Loners do not survive this process. I cannot state this more clearly.

kg062007 said:
that's like me telling a woman who is in labor to "stop your bitching, i know it hurts but it can't be that bad
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And for the record, we sometimes do have to tell a woman in labor to stop complaining and push.
 
ringhal said:
I'm telling you, in no uncertain terms, as a black man who has been through undergrad, medical school, residency, fellowship, and is faculty at a teaching hospital, the more you focus on your differences, the more you will alienate yourself. Loners do not survive this process. I cannot state this more clearly.
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I agree, I don't suggest any person focus on their differences. I think that is a recipe for failure. However, I think it is very important to understand the odds against you. I cannot see how one can surmount an obstacle by ignoring it or worst believing it will not be a challenge to overcome. As black males (or any person for that matter) I think in order to succeed you have to understand why those before you did not (or did), and learn from their mistakes (or successes). These lessons are not going to be learned (in this case) by affluent black/white from a generation of physicians and/or doctoral scholars. There are different pressures involved. I am not saying that you let these challenges defeat you. I am saying you acknowledge them. Being ignorant of them is just not going get you anywhere. I remember I was at a seminar, with this African American motivational speaker. I asked him, "How did you being a scientific person look at the statistics and not sometimes worry about your chances?". He went on tell me that statistics do not affect him. He told me "The statistics say the economy is really bad.. But I have not made more money in my life." Little did he know, that my mom was/is unemployed and the statistics concerning the economy did apply to me and couldn’t be ignored. His idea that one should ignore the statistics was to me, not merited. I think it is actually more detrimental if anything.

Knowing your chances should not discourage but should push you to work harder and smarter.



ringhal said:
And for the record, we sometimes do have to tell a woman in labor to stop complaining and push.
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To the OP, it will be hard, but it is not impossible. Beat the odds, be the outlier and don't fault others for not being in your shoes.
 
To the OP:

The fact that you are even considering going to medical school, and are enrolled in undergrad has already set you apart from your upbringing and the general population white/black/asian etc. Up until this point in your life, you are being accepted more than you are being rejected, you are being judged positively more than you are being judged negatively. Your have had more opportunities than you have had obstacles. If this was not true you would be the stereotypical black youth with a criminal record.

You may not have the amount of family support that you need but you should also know that having a family that values education has its own stresses (i.e my family equates failure to not being at the very top).

You should not think of yourself as black,underprivileged medical student. You should think of yourself as a medical student, period. Everybody in your program would have put in the same time and effort to get where they are.
You might meet someone like me, who is doctor's kid now, but my parents are immigrants and started from sub-ZERO as in they were sending money back to Africa from their scholarships to help out family while they had their own damn kids to feed on nothing. You don't know everybody's story and nobody know yours. You will fit in and relate to your peers ONLY if you want.

Think about it this way...to somebody in your community, YOU are the "rich spoiled" kid who is going to medical school and if all goes well, YOUR own children will be rich spoiled doctor's kids:rolleyes:
 
kg062007 said:
I think what has happned in this thread is a couple of moderators (smq123,NJBMD) have recieved a couple of bruises to thier egos and god-complexes, Saying that somebody cannot fully relate to you situation is not an insult, its a fact
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Don't insult me because you don't "get it". If someone doesn't agree with you and say "atta boy" then they have a "god complex". Good luck in your future work and I hope you make it but if you don't, you are to blame and not your background.
 
kg062007 said:
Have you experienced much racism from patients?
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Almost everyone will experience racism from patients, regardless of their ethnicity.

And OP, your bitterness and this chip on your shoulder that no one can possibly understand your struggle will do you no favors in the future. A lot of people struggle/come from disadvantaged backgrounds, and those "spoiled rich brats" are most certainly NOT the majority in medical school or even undergrad. A classmate who has a physician parent doesn't automatically make them a brat - your assumptions are equally as prejudiced and unfair as someone who you may claim "expects you to fail" due to the color of your skin. You don't know them just as much as someone doesn't know you to be making said assumptions.
 
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I think the OP is going through a very difficult period in his life. In time, he will realize the wisdom of NJBMD and the other premeds, medical students, residents, and attendings who are trying to give him advice based on what actually works. I think he is lashing out because he hasn't yet realized that there is a better way. (sorry for the third person...)

If you read "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," which I recommend, you will come upon the concept of the "paradigm shift." The advice being given to you is a great opportunity for you to make that shift. Yes, the pill they are offering you is a bitter pill to swallow; after all, it is asking you to change, while the rest of the world stays the same.

You cannot get ahead by distancing yourself from others -- you must try to find a common bond, no matter how thin. No matter how different someone is from you, there is always at least one thing you will have in common, just try to find that one thing, and build off of that.

Good luck!
 
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OP, you MUST learn to let it ride off your shoulder. We as African-Americans in ANY form of health care are few, far and between. If you wish to go into this field, you have to be willing to put your differences aside and learn to get along with those who are different from you. I would imagine that medical school and residency would be much more brutal if one didn't have like minded friends who could truly understand what he or she is going through. I reside in a predominantly white neighborhood and I can tell you from experience that at times, these spoiled brats you speak of can be quite intrigued by African-Americans and the "flavor" we bring to all that we do. Admittedly, it IS relatively easy for me to adapt to other cultures, so I can not to relate to you on that level. BUT, that most certainly does not mean I can't give you advice. Just be yourself and don't worry about what everybody around you is thinking, doing, or where they come from. Even if you are the "odd one out" SO WHAT. I personally am looking forward to meeting individuals that I could never in a million years see myself being friends with. I am also looking forward to bringing a certain amount of uniqueness and diversity to whatever program takes a chance on me. I wear my race like a badge of honor and never hesitate to show what blacks can bring to the table, whether it be to spoiled snobs, or "hustlas on the block slangin yayo" :laugh:. In short, don't anticipate discrimination, but don't be naive and assume that you won't experience it. It sounds like you need to just relax and stop worrying about whether you will "fit in". Just chill out and let things fall into place. I work in health care and I would be lying if I said I didn't get "the look" whenever I first walk into a patients room. However, after I open my mouth and speak, their expression quickly changes and they generally warm up to me relatively quickly. A couple even come back and request "that black guy with the earrings that smiles a lot". This is most certainly not always the case and you will have those of all races who will prefer a provider of the same race. That's just the name of the game my friend.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a Physician nor do I intend to present myself as such. I am only a tech in a hospital and my experience with patients is very minimal. Take my words with a grain of salt.
 
kg062007 said:
njbmd, I know you are like the "god of all wisdom" on SDN but do you really think coming from an educated family of physicians didn't play a role in your achievements? Chances are you grew up in an enviornment that promoted and valued education, and you always had a support systems as you went through all of your studies. I live in Mississippi, and here if you are a black male and cannot shoot a ball, you are basically seen as worthless,... pople here dont get the value of education so i have no support system for this long hard road. I told my mom i wanted to be a doctor and she replied "Why? Your uncle makes 60,000 a year driving trucks, you can do that." Id imagine your parents reacted differently.
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Honestly, the answer is simple: if you don't fit in and you want to, then "fit in", i.e. assimilate. If you don't fit in, and don't care to assimilate then accept the fact that you're not "that kind of guy" and just make the best of the limited interactions you do have with people. If you don't like either of those options, then hope you can find a support group on the internet. lol

Life is what YOU make of it. And, color only matters if you think it matters. Many people really don't care, unless you make a big deal out of it.

Oh, and although I'm not "minority" in color, I do come from an uneducated, poor background where my parents would have been stoked to see me make $50k/yr selling cell phones, or owning my own hot-dog stand. So I can appreciate what you're saying to some degree.
 
ChemEngMD said:
Still pisses me off that llello got Americanized to yayo haha
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Llello is indeed the "correct" spelling for "yayo"(atleast in the urban dictionary;)). Most folks just don't recognize the former so it is much easier to use the latter.
 
njbmd said:
Every member of a minority goes through some kind of prejudice (academic or otherwise). You need only look at that Arizona law to understand what Latinos will have to go and do go through. I won't even get started on the negative images that abound with Native Americans. Certainly not all Muslims are terrorists either but in some areas, Muslim children are beaten at school and called names.

Asians are stereotyped as being quiet, studious and smart. What if you are Asian and you are anything but the above? My Asian buddies are no smarter or quieter than myself. In short, African American men do not have a "lock" on being the butt of the stereotypes by those in a majority culture. If you allow others to define you, they will and to their standards. Don't think for a second that the accomplishments of my family negates the stereotypical prejudices that I get because my skin is black.

At a VA hospital, a medicine intern who was white walked by me several times before "bitching" to the nursing staff in front of me that no surgical resident had come to see her patient when I was sitting there with the chart completing the consult (I was the chief). The nursing staff just let her rant. She couldn't imagine that the chief surgery resident was a black woman even though I was sitting there in a lab coat with Chief Resident and my name on it dressed in scrubs and wearing a surgeon's cap.

On another occasion, I was rounding in the Emergency Department of an outside hospital when the attending introduced all of the other residents (who were white or Asian) as Dr. So and So but introduced me by my Christian name. It didn't make any difference that I was the senior resident of the group, in his mind, I didn't deserve to be called Dr.

My cousin who is chief of pediatric neurosurgery at an urban hospital was constantly handed bedpans by patients when she came to round even though she was dressed in a Chanel suit and lab coat with her name and MD/Ph.D on the pocket.


So dude, get a grip. No amount of money, or education will erase your color or prejudice that it engenders in some people. Prejudice is is in American culture and it's here to stay. It will come from immigrants and it will come from majority Americans. You either wallow in your "my background won't allow me to fit in" or you grab whatever you need, do excellent work and keep moving forward. "The biggest lies that are told are the ones that we tell ourselves."

If you decide before you even get into medicine, that your background won't let you succeed (or even "fit in"), then you have failed yourself. If you don't succeed, it's on you (and your head-trip) and not your ethnic group because we (as black folk) can and do succeed every day.

Just read some of the posts by Doctajay or Black Surgeon or BlackMD2B any number of brothas here who are just quietly getting the job done and not making any excuses. If you use the search function (it's at the top of the page) you can find their thread in PreAllo. You erase stupidity by not buying into it.

BTW, in case you are wondering how I fit in with the team??? I run the team now so they fit in with me.
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That is the most powerful statement I ever heard, I run the team now so they fit in with me :thumbup:

Well I am an African-American female
 
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futuredoctor328 said:
That is the most powerful statement I ever heard, I run the team now so they fit in with me :thumbup:

Well I am an African-American female from Brooklyn, NY and I am the only one out of my neighborhood besides my sister who goes to college. Everyone goes through something, for me, I know I have a goal so no race, color nor creed is going to stop me :D. And it shouldn't neither, don't worry about anyone else because truth in the matter you already accomplished alot thus far. There are support groups in medical such as SNMA and such minority groups. I love being immersed within different cultures because I can learn something from somebody whether is studying habits or network purposes.

Don't get me wrong because I am a URM I have to be on my A game at every point and be the best that I can be. I am extremely competitive because I want to inspire the youth in my comunity who thinks that becoming a doctor is out of their league. I WILL BE the first doctor in my family. I mean we have PAs, teachers and so forth and my sister wants to become a Nurse Practioner but trust and believe YOU CAN DO IT!!!

I go to a HBCU, Spelman College, and there are some things that I learn not only about myself but how to be able to handle situations like these. And Plus you really can't stop people from hating on you it's part of life and like Katt Williams said "He loves when ppl hate it's his motivation and he try to get another hater every single day", lol And haters come in every color so don't think you're the only one going through this. I even have friends who are AA who are jealous and mad because I think I am better than them because I want to become a doctor Mind you I am not even a doctor yet :scared: talk about the support from your friends who came from similiar background than you but I love them the same and I don't let NO ONE Deter me from my Future Goal as a PHYSICIAN. That is a hard feat in itself and like Kayne West says "You Can't Tell Me Nothing"

Cheer up son!! You will be fine :D
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I'm surprised this thread took off again. I read this post and had to say that this is a great perspective and I agree 100%...and not because I went to Morehouse (class of 2009) and you're my Spelman sister. lol. Seriously though, there will always be haters till the day we die and using them as motivation is the key if you are serious about your goals in life.
 
Man, its been a while since i looked at this thread, thank everyone for your opinions. When i first started this thread, i think i was more worried about how different i would be from most of my classmates "culturally" i didnt mean for it to come across as self pitty, or prejudging others i shouldnt have referred to my future classmates as spoiled, arrogant, entitled, brats. Its just that from my personal experience, its hard to make "very close friends" with people of extremly different cultures, there is no problem socializing with these people. Lets face it most of my class mates will be middle- upperclass and white, I can't relate to some of their jokes, or mannerisms.... and topics that you really connect with people on such as your childhood, and memories, they will not be able to relate to me , nor i to them. Most probably wouldn't know what WIC cheese is, Ive never been to band camp or went to a highschool that has a glee club, debate team, or AP classes.... hell we barely had qualified teachers. Before everyone says it, I know all my classmates will not be upperclass or white, Im just illustrating a point, I just wonder how do i relate to them when wanting to make convo and getting to know them on that deeper level, Maybe i should read stuff white people like?;)JK

Anyway, if anyone knows how you get to know people of different cultures on that deeper level i would like your advice. Doctor j had good advice, and so did the person who said appreciate someone for their finer attributes.


Oh, and as far as using my situation to motivate me , That is exactly how i have gotten this far, and it will continue to be a catalyst for me in the future:). So that is not a problem
 
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