Lose the nose piercing?

[jeanneson]

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

[angietron3000]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

I lost my nose piercing for my first *real* job after college. Literally. I took it out for my interview and couldn't get it back in afterwards.. I was actually thinking of getting it repierced for med school

[ssdoc]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

No, I really don't think it should matter...a good friend of mine just finished her M2 year and she never had a problem. Also, a doctor that I work with has her nose pierced. I would be surprised if it was a problem, especially since its a small stud. Maybe a hoop would be a problem bc its so noticeable.

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by ssdoc

No, I really don't think it should matter...a good friend of mine just finished her M2 year and she never had a problem. Also, a doctor that I work with has her nose pierced. I would be surprised if it was a problem, especially since its a small stud. Maybe a hoop would be a problem bc its so noticeable.

Different schools have different policies, but most frown on visible piercings other than earrings for women once you get to the clinical years. It tends to be more of an issue when folks are dealing with older patients, who tend to be less happy with physicians with piercings or ink, and are more apt to complain. A lot of med school handbooks will be pretty specific as to what is and isn't acceptable in terms of piercings, hair color etc. I suggest moving the piercing to a part of your anatomy that is not visible when you are wearing clothes.

[ssdoc]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

Different schools have different policies, but most frown on visible piercings other than earrings for women once you get to the clinical years. It tends to be more of an issue when folks are dealing with older patients, who tend to be less happy with physicians with piercings or ink, and are more apt to complain. A lot of med school handbooks will be pretty specific as to what is and isn't acceptable in terms of piercings, hair color etc. I suggest moving the piercing to a part of your anatomy that is not visible when you are wearing clothes.

Yea, I guess then the best suggestion for the OP would be to talk to your Dean.

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

Uh, yea, lose the piercing.

[Agent Splat]

I know a few people finishing up their M1 year that have them, and don't seem to have had any problems.

Leave it until you personally feel it needs to go (or talk to your dean and stuff like the other people said). But I don't think you should have to remove it.

[fun8stuff]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

Nose piercings are not seen has being professional, along with wearing scrubby clothes, dying your hair a funky color, tatoos, long hair on a guy, etc. This will be the response you get from most people you talk to... I would still email the dean or maybe talk to the dean in person (so he/she can see it) and ask them what they think.

[Kanga]

I'm finishing up 3rd year, and have had a small nose stud since way before med school. I haven't gotten any negative comments at all. I've met a few other med students and docs with nose studs (lots of nurses, too.)

If you like it, keep it!

[DrMom]

I wore mine all through rotations and residency interviewing. I keep a small stud in...nothing obnoious. I had one rotation where I was asked not to wear it, so I didn't, but otherwise it hasn't been an issue at all.

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by DrMom

I wore mine all through rotations and residency interviewing. I keep a small stud in...nothing obnoious. I had one rotation where I was asked not to wear it, so I didn't, but otherwise it hasn't been an issue at all.

No offense, but this is generally seen as quite trashy. If one rotation asked you NOT to wear it, what do you think the others were thinking?

[JohnnyOU]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

No offense, but this is generally seen as quite trashy. If one rotation asked you NOT to wear it, what do you think the others were thinking?

True.

[DrMom]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

No offense, but this is generally seen as quite trashy. If one rotation asked you NOT to wear it, what do you think the others were thinking?

So I guess the fact that it wasn't an issue on my other 21 rotations doesn't figure in to this then?

Actually, on that rotation the resident who asked me to remove it was concerned that he'd get flack from attendings if I wore it. The next month I wore it at the same facility with the same attendings and nobody had a problem with it.

I'm sorry that some people are so short sighted to think that something like a piece of jewelry in-and-of-itself is trashy. I look like a nice, normal, average woman. I perform well in the clinical setting, and, fortunately, those I have worked with have decided how to treat me based on all of that rather than the very small nosering.

[Doctor Bagel]

Originally Posted by DrMom

I'm sorry that some people are so short sighted to think that something like a piece of jewelry in-and-of-itself is trashy. I look like a nice, normal, average woman. I perform well in the clinical setting, and, fortunately, those I have worked with have decided how to treat me based on all of that rather than the very small nosering.

As a former pierced nose person, I've got to agree.

[Ross434]

Think of it this way. Although the current patient community may be offended-- When the baby boomers and flower children take their turn as the geriatric population, will attitudes towards these things be a lot different?? Haha

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by DrMom

I perform well in the clinical setting, and, fortunately, those I have worked with have decided how to treat me based on all of that rather than the very small nosering.

I personally don't find it "trashy", but still have to disagree with you. I think it has a lot less to do with the opinions of the folks you work with and a lot more to do with patient expectations. Older patients complain a lot about this kind of innocuous stuff. They don't care about how well you are performing, all they see is the nose ring, tattoos, purple hair etc. Doesn't matter if you are the best student doctor in the world, if you don't look the part they will be unhappy. And various hospitals and school administrations have a fairly low threshold for such complaints about their med students, particularly when most school handbooks tend to be pretty clear on the subject. So it depends on the school and their policies, but some have pretty strong views.
Bear in mind that medicine is not alone in having this kind of policy -- nose rings don't fly in many law or corporate environments either.

[ASDIC]

girls with nose studs are hot!!!

its just something not every girl has...and if u have one, consider urself to be lucky.

[DrMom]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

I personally don't find it "trashy", but still have to disagree with you. I think it has a lot less to do with the opinions of the folks you work with and a lot more to do with patient expectations. Older patients complain a lot about this kind of innocuous stuff. They don't care about how well you are performing, all they see is the nose ring, tattoos, purple hair etc. Doesn't matter if you are the best student doctor in the world, if you don't look the part they will be unhappy. And various hospitals and school administrations have a fairly low threshold for such complaints about their med students, particularly when most school handbooks tend to be pretty clear on the subject. So it depends on the school and their policies, but some have pretty strong views.
Bear in mind that medicine is not alone in having this kind of policy -- nose rings don't fly in many law or corporate environments either.

My school doesn't have a policy on this, but if they did I wouldn't wear it.

I haven't had any patient issues to date, but that doesn't mean that I won't at some point. Even in this conservative part of the country, I just haven't yet found it to be an issue. I'll reiterate that I look very normal otherwise, which I think helps. If I also had some funky hair or non-traditional clothes, the nose ring would be more obvious, in a sense.

I guess my point about all of this is that if the nose ring is an issue with the school or hospital, it isn't worth risking my education/job over. At the same time, if it isn't an issue, I'll go ahead & wear it.

[kenmc3]

Personal jewelry can harbor infectious diseases – so just don’t go sticking your nose in other peoples business.

[LADoc00]

On a related note I knew a guy who had a mexican mafia tattoo in med school. Fairly discrete, but someone saw it when he was changing once and went bonkers. They wanted to kick him out of med school for it. Crazy.

[tupac_don]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

I CAN'T speak from personal experience, but I would say, you should be okay, I saw a few students with it. I don't think it really matters too much. Although if you don't want anyone judging you, might be more cautios to get rid of it. Just cuz that kinda thing not everyone will be cool with that. Although most people are.

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

I personally don't find it "trashy", but still have to disagree with you. I think it has a lot less to do with the opinions of the folks you work with and a lot more to do with patient expectations. Older patients complain a lot about this kind of innocuous stuff. They don't care about how well you are performing, all they see is the nose ring, tattoos, purple hair etc. Doesn't matter if you are the best student doctor in the world, if you don't look the part they will be unhappy. And various hospitals and school administrations have a fairly low threshold for such complaints about their med students, particularly when most school handbooks tend to be pretty clear on the subject. So it depends on the school and their policies, but some have pretty strong views.
Bear in mind that medicine is not alone in having this kind of policy -- nose rings don't fly in many law or corporate environments either.

Yes, I was using the term "trashy" in terms of my opinion and also, much more importantly, the opinion that many/most patients will hold.

Dr.Mom, you say (continually) what a good clinical student you are and I have nothing to disprove your statements. That said, however, I find it troubling that you justify your wearing a ring by saying that you've never had a problem with a patient. I would contend -- OF COURSE NOT!!!

Do you think a patient is going to look at you and say, "That nosering is unbecoming on a future physician, would you please remove it in my presence."?

NO, they will go home and tell their sister Francis and cousin Earl and the three will collectively shake their heads and wonder what is becoming of the medical profession. Your attendings and residents are obviously more progressive/understanding of your choices than the average patient.

I think that we, as future/current physicians, have an obligation to dress in a professional manner and LOOK THE PART of a physician. This has been my contention all along.

[DrMom]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

Yes, I was using the term "trashy" in terms of my opinion and also, much more importantly, the opinion that many/most patients will hold.

Dr.Mom, you say (continually) what a good clinical student you are and I have nothing to disprove your statements. That said, however, I find it troubling that you justify your wearing a ring by saying that you've never had a problem with a patient. I would contend -- OF COURSE NOT!!!

Do you think a patient is going to look at you and say, "That nosering is unbecoming on a future physician, would you please remove it in my presence."?

NO, they will go home and tell their sister Francis and cousin Earl and the three will collectively shake their heads and wonder what is becoming of the medical profession. Your attendings and residents are obviously more progressive/understanding of your choices than the average patient.

I think that we, as future/current physicians, have an obligation to dress in a professional manner and LOOK THE PART of a physician. This has been my contention all along.

Well, even with my nose ring I look way more professional than medical students that I have seen in skimpy clothes, wrinkled clothes, nasty dirty white coats, etc. Many of us have our lack-of-professionalism shortcomings, I guess. I'll just stick with mine.

And I only mentioned my clinical performance once. I believe you have some posts about your step 1 score, yourself.

Big picture: I was just adding my experience to this thread in response to the OP's post. You're sharing your view. Neither of us are going to convince the other.

[remedios]

I had one of my pedes attending wear one herself. I also knew a fellow student who caught flak for an earing (he was a guy) by an ortho attending.

I think a discrete nose ring should be okay with most people (it helps if it has some cultural significance ). In any case, there should be very little problems first 2 years when you have very little clinical time. Then you have to decide how important it is to you, and whether or not it's worth risk catching the flak for it.

p.s.: when i'm a resident/attending, i'm obviously not going to give people problems about it. but if your attending is bigfrank, i'd take it off.

[mjl1717]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

No offense, but this is generally seen as quite trashy. If one rotation asked you NOT to wear it, what do you think the others were thinking?

True- you've got to dress the part. medicine is still conservative. {although cultural significance may play a slight role}

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by remedios

p.s.: when i'm a resident/attending, i'm obviously not going to give people problems about it. but if your attending is bigfrank, i'd take it off.

Or if you want patients to, by and large, respect you -- either way.

[logic meme]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

Yes, I was using the term "trashy" in terms of my opinion and also, much more importantly, the opinion that many/most patients will hold.

Dr.Mom, you say (continually) what a good clinical student you are and I have nothing to disprove your statements. That said, however, I find it troubling that you justify your wearing a ring by saying that you've never had a problem with a patient. I would contend -- OF COURSE NOT!!!

Do you think a patient is going to look at you and say, "That nosering is unbecoming on a future physician, would you please remove it in my presence."?

NO, they will go home and tell their sister Francis and cousin Earl and the three will collectively shake their heads and wonder what is becoming of the medical profession. Your attendings and residents are obviously more progressive/understanding of your choices than the average patient.

I think that we, as future/current physicians, have an obligation to dress in a professional manner and LOOK THE PART of a physician. This has been my contention all along.

We don't have any obligation to dress or look anyway. Who do we have this supposed obligation to? Medicine is a job like any other, and any way you chose to dress is up to you. Now your choice of dress may lose you money, or respect, or admiration, or change views about your work performance and other things but it is still your choice. If you want to be a CEO or politician and dress like a bum then that is your right. The problem is only that said dress/behavior would lose you money and respect, and probably your job as well. In any case since when do you need to dress any way for patients? If they aren't paying to see you than you shouldn't care and if they are paying than they have a choice to see you or not. I challenge you to rationally argue whom you have an obligation to dress some certain way for...You can argue that as a CEO you have an obligation to your shareholders and as a politician to your constituents, but even so if you have always dressed/behaved in such a way than you have never led them to expect else of you, thus have fulfilled said obligation. I say who cares about your stupid piercing, if people have a problem with it than they can deal with it. If you find that you start to have a problem with it or it starts to affect your evaluations or work performance in a way that bothers you you can take it out. Life is too short to be worried about other peoples idiotic views about how you look or should act. It never matters in the long run...you are so much better off just being yourself.

[acrobat]

Ditch the ring. If you happen to have a conservative interview you might as well throw your app out. My republican father has never hired anyone with a facial piercing and refuses to do so.

Not saying it's fair but jsut be on the safe side. Or just take it out for the interview at least.

[Blade28]

I would take the piercing out.

I took our my earrings before my med school interviews.

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by Alexander Pink, M.D.

We don't have any obligation to dress or look anyway. Who do we have this supposed obligation to? Medicine is a job like any other, and any way you chose to dress is up to you.

Actually no. Medicine is not "a job like any other" -- it is a profession, and as such has various professional standards, self policing, ethics and the like. Very few careers require you to take an oath before starting. (Medicine, law, nursing, the President of the US). There are only a handful of professions out there, and they impose duties on their members significantly different than just any job.

[remedios]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

Or if you want patients to, by and large, respect you -- either way.

some patients are not going to respect you either way. the patients who has piercing/tattoos might respect you more...

you are not going to deal with patients yourself, anyway (aren't you going into rads?)

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by remedios

some patients are not going to respect you either way. the patients who has piercing/tattoos might respect you more...

you are not going to deal with patients yourself, anyway (aren't you going into rads?)

I won't even get into the grammatical and logical nightmare of the first part of your above post.

Your view of radiology is both ignorant and foolish.

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

Actually no. Medicine is not "a job like any other" -- it is a profession, and as such has various professional standards, self policing, ethics and the like. Very few careers require you to take an oath before starting. (Medicine, law, nursing, the President of the US). There are only a handful of professions out there, and they impose duties on their members significantly different than just any job.

Exactly. This (inexplicably) escapes some.

[osar92]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

No offense, but this is generally seen as quite trashy. If one rotation asked you NOT to wear it, what do you think the others were thinking?

are you serious??

nose piercings are important in some cultures and ethnicities. Yeah, a hoop is kinda trashy. But a small diamond stud can actually look quite elegant.

get over yourself.

[Doctor Bagel]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

Actually no. Medicine is not "a job like any other" -- it is a profession, and as such has various professional standards, self policing, ethics and the like. Very few careers require you to take an oath before starting. (Medicine, law, nursing, the President of the US). There are only a handful of professions out there, and they impose duties on their members significantly different than just any job.

Maybe, but I don't think a piercing, odd hair style, tattooes, etc. violate the main professional standards inherent in medicine. How you behave is much more significant than how you look, imo.

[remedios]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

I won't even get into the grammatical and logical nightmare of the first part of your above post.

Your view of radiology is both ignorant and foolish.

I mix up my plural and singulars when i type fast, because there is no distinction in Chinese. But still, unless you are doing IR, you won't have much patient interaction at all in radiology.

It's your irrelevant jabs at people who disagree with you that makes you seem sophmoric and insecure

[teninepit]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

Yes, I was using the term "trashy" in terms of my opinion and also, much more importantly, the opinion that many/most patients will hold.

Dr.Mom, you say (continually) what a good clinical student you are and I have nothing to disprove your statements. That said, however, I find it troubling that you justify your wearing a ring by saying that you've never had a problem with a patient. I would contend -- OF COURSE NOT!!!

Do you think a patient is going to look at you and say, "That nosering is unbecoming on a future physician, would you please remove it in my presence."?

NO, they will go home and tell their sister Francis and cousin Earl and the three will collectively shake their heads and wonder what is becoming of the medical profession. Your attendings and residents are obviously more progressive/understanding of your choices than the average patient.

I think that we, as future/current physicians, have an obligation to dress in a professional manner and LOOK THE PART of a physician. This has been my contention all along.

So what does a professional physician look like? I take your comment to imply that men must wear Armani, and women wear the latest spring fashion. MANY docs wear scrubs, so because they wear scrubs, do they look professional in your opinion? MANY docs do things to express their individuality, such as piercings and STILL look professional and like a physician.

Dude, wake up and smell the 21st century. Many docs new and old, male and female have various piercings, nose, ears. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a nose piercing as the OP asked.

I think it is cool as long as someone looks nice (scrubs/slacks/dress/whatever suits you) and not a huge ring or something hanging off their face--it is fine to express some individuality. I am sure that if a doc/student with a nose piercing provide excellent care and helped solve the patient's problem, said patient would not give a crap what the person looked like.

If you're that hung up on a nose piercing then you really need to find something to help better medicine than complaining about attire.

[jeanneson]

Hey guys, thanks for all the comments, both positive and negative. One poster mentioned the cultural significance and that´s part of my concern. I think perhaps it´s more accepted on women of South Asian descent? Being white I don´t know... I guess I´ll just wait until I get there and talk to the Dean.

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by exlawgrrl

Maybe, but I don't think a piercing, odd hair style, tattooes, etc. violate the main professional standards inherent in medicine. How you behave is much more significant than how you look, imo.

While I don't disagree with your personal views, one person's views really don't carry much weight -- part of being a professional is abiding by the standards and mores of the profession. I'm sure you are aware of this from law as well -- you will surely have come across plenty of places (lawfirms, many courtrooms, client meetings) where a nose ring would be deemed inappropriate and frowned upon. Medicine is really no different -- different oath, but both are self policing professional service industries. You can be a great doctor, but still be deemed "unprofessional".

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by teninepit

Dude, wake up and smell the 21st century.

The one thing you overlook is that the vast majority of all patients you will be "smelling" over the course of our practices will be folks from the 20th century. They are not as progressive, and not shy about complaining.

[Zargos]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a more practical example!

Do you really want some crazy person pulling your nosering out of your face during a psyche or ER rotation

[fun8stuff]

Originally Posted by exlawgrrl

Maybe, but I don't think a piercing, odd hair style, tattooes, etc. violate the main professional standards inherent in medicine. How you behave is much more significant than how you look, imo.

The problem is that you don't decide what violates the "main professional standards". Your patients and peers do. As of now, the majority of these people will make negative stereotypical judgements based on these superficial attributes. Not that I think this right, but it is the way it is.

[QofQuimica]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

I vote for taking it out any time that you have clinical contact. Even if people don't think that noserings are unprofessional (which I don't if they're small and discreet), people may think they're unhygenic or just plain gross (which I do; how do you get them in and out without having to stick your fingers up your nose???) It may be ok for an attending to wear a nosering, but one thing that no one has really seemed to mention is that we are not yet attendings, and we don't get to act like we are. One very good piece of advice I was given before I started applying to medical school is that it's great to be a maverick, but wait until you're an insider before you let it all hang out. While you're a student or applicant is not the best time to express your individuality, at least on the outside, because other people still have a say in whether you even get to become a physician. When you become an attending, and you are the one running the show so to speak, then you can make a "nosering allowed" or even a "nosering encouraged" policy. And then some future student can come on SDN and ask whether it's ok to not wear noserings if the attendings all do.

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by QofQuimica

When you become an attending, and you are the one running the show so to speak, then you can make a "nosering allowed" or even a "nosering encouraged" policy.

Attendings are not even close to the top of the hierarchy. Perhaps when you make it to chairman, dean, etc. you can put it to a vote to the board.

[QofQuimica]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

Attendings are not even close to the top of the hierarchy. Perhaps when you make it to chairman, dean, etc. you can put it to a vote to the board.

I was thinking more of someone in private practice.

[TheProwler]

Originally Posted by bigfrank

I won't even get into the grammatical and logical nightmare of the first part of your above post.

Your view of radiology is both ignorant and foolish.

Hey, the grammar police are busy patrolling the allo forum too!

[jetproppilot]

Originally Posted by jeanneson

So I´m starting med school this August and I´m wondering, should I lose the nose piercing before having contact with patients? It´s small, discreet (I think) diamond stud and I quite like it. However, I´ll lose it if it´s necessary to look professional. What´s the thinking on this sort of thing nowadays? Anyone been in a similar situation?

I think its totally dependent on where you are matriculating.

I went to U of Miami for the MD...an eclectic place where, at least then (1988-1992) had some pretty freaky looking attendings... one in particular I recall was a pediatric attending (male) with a long pony-tail and dangly earrings in both ears...many long haired male attendings...

so if you were matriculating at UM i don't hink you'd get a second look.

On the other hand other schools are more stuffy-image-oriented where the piercing would be taboo.

As an aside, a small nose piercing is pretty common in the Indian (female) culture.

[bigfrank]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

The one thing you overlook is that the vast majority of all patients you will be "smelling" over the course of our practices will be folks from the 20th century. They are not as progressive, and not shy about complaining.

Exactly. Those in favor of a more radical appearance (and justify it though stating that their attendings "didn't mind" or patients "didn't complain") are negating a huge factor of medicine -- THE PATIENTS, who really don't care to have their physicians or student physicians look "hip and progressive in the 21st century."

This isn't a difficult concept but it does escape many.

[Dimoak]

Originally Posted by Zargos

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a more practical example!

Do you really want some crazy person pulling your nosering out of your face during a psyche or ER rotation

Heh, think of it this way. If a PT manages to snatch a small stud out of your nose during an eval, atleast you can give them a nice high score for motor and sensory in the Glasgow.

[GoodMonkey]

yikes my computer is going nuts