All you non-trads in OChem -- how are you surviving?

My professor is amazing, but the class is still really hard. Now granted, I got a solid B (An A, B+, B and B) on my four tests and a C on my final last semester, so I just ended up with a solid B, but the class is still hard as heck. I'm really really going to celebrate when I get out of Ochem 2. It really sucks. I'll probably get another B (hopefully) this semester. Just survive it best you can. That's my advice.

I'm doing pretty good so far with A in org1 and a 85 average in org2. The reactions suck! Have thought about posting some questions on this site, but not so sure if that would be a violation of rules since I'm taking org 2 by arrangement. The toughest thing is that both 1, and 2 seem to be different at every college. I know that some colleges align their cirriculum, but in organics they seem to be very different classes at different schools.

Orgo is a tough class that requires a lot of time to learn. Try to prepare in advance for your lectures. Read the material and do problems before going to the corresponding lecture. It is tough to get much out of lecture if it is the first time you are hearing it.

It sucks that the instructor isn't more helpful. I had a great teacher and TA's and that is how I got through the class. Does your school have any free tutoring available? If not, hire somebody to help you. I know I needed some additional help with the class.

Finally, my best advice is to do tons of problems. I literally did all the problems in my book and then some for some topics. You need to get good at figuring out how to predict how unfamiliar reactions work. Plus work out a lot of synthesis problems. Try to figure out how to turn any compound into any other compound (within reason).

Orgo is a very conceptual class. You absolutely cannot just memorize every reaction. It is absolutely essential that you understand the underlying mechanisms AND the stability of intermediates and end products. This will allow you to predict reactions. As far as spectroscopy goes, you don't really need to know the science behind them. Just need to understand how to read the data and figure out your compound. The way to learn all these mechanisms is to do practice problems and write out the mechanisms EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I am not a big fan of kaplan. As a matter of fact I think they rip people off. However, there is an exception to this. Their MCAT organic chem review (from their comphrensive review book) is phenomenal. You should take a look at it. It really helped me out in the class and on the MCAT.

Good Luck!

Spend your time now focusing on your class. You don't get a redo if you mess up your grades. After the semester is over you will have time for MCAT prep. Taking the exam as late as mid-July is no big deal if you have all your other application stuff done at the same time.

gman33 said:

Spend your time now focusing on your class. You don't get a redo if you mess up your grades. After the semester is over you will have time for MCAT prep. Taking the exam as late as mid-July is no big deal if you have all your other application stuff done at the same time.

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Agree.

OP, don't even think about the MCAT until your grades are in the bag.

I am kind of an organic freak (currently taking orgo II)... I am also one of the only undergrad orgo II tutors in my university, I can tell you a few big things and hopfully they will help you

Orgo II is slightly "more dense" than Orgo I, by that I mean, In orgo I you did alot of structure determination, little reactions..... However with Orgo II, its the other way around, you will do ALOT of reactions (when I say alot, I mean ALOT), but not too much structure determination

1) You need to underestand the simple but very helpfull basics .....things like What is a nucleophile? what is an electrophile? how do you determine an electrophile/nucleophile in your reaction, for example, the chapter on Ketons & aldehydes, MAJORITY of the reactions are of Nucleophilic addition type reaction (you need to underestand the different types of nucleophiles and how they each work)..... this is VERY fundemental and without this simple knowledge, you might as well give up on Orgo II

2) There are about 4-5 chapters that are VERY related to each other in organic II, and once you underestand the first chapter of these series, you will beging to underestand pretty much all of them.... For example, chapter 19 in my book (which is Ketones & aldehydes) is the starting material for everything from Ketones/aldehydes alllllllllll the way to thier acyl derivatives.... if you underestood this chapter, and underestood it REAL well, the next 2-3 chapters (on acyl derivatives) woun't be so challenging since the thinking process is sort of similar........ moral of the story, you need to get a strong grip on those ketones & aldehydes, without them, you woun't be able to grasp the material in the next following 2-3 chapters

3) people tell you to "practice practice practice".... but I disagree, if you sit down and solve problems for 5 hrs straight, thats not exactly "teaching" you organic chemistry, instead, your just memorizing how to glue one molecule to another.... thats not good.....Instead.... I believe in "underestanding the mechanisms of reactions THEN solving problems here and there, but without overdoing it"........ When you solve problems, ALWAYS draw the intermediates, and underestand why the intermediate looks the way it does, if you don't, ask someone (TA, or come here to SDN, or look it up on google).... But I strongly believe a good way to learning Organic chemistry is to learn the intermediate steps in a reaction

4) my final advice to you is, don't over stress yourself, its just 1 class, finish it and get it over with, you'll never have to see organic chemistry again

good luck

gman33 said:

Spend your time now focusing on your class. You don't get a redo if you mess up your grades. After the semester is over you will have time for MCAT prep. Taking the exam as late as mid-July is no big deal if you have all your other application stuff done at the same time.

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I agree, focus on the class, worry about the MCAT later, making sure the rest of your application is finished and submitted so that all they have to do is upload your MCAT scores. (Verification can take a while).

During the HW, at every step ask yourself "Why" is the reaction happening this way? Sometimes you may understand a mechanism or reaction, but also ask yourself why doesn't this reaction proceed by a different mechanism? A lot of times there can be competing mechanisms or subtle differences, this is why there's often multiple products. Its not enough to just do the homework, you have to really consider each problem. Its unlikely a tutor will know the answer to all your questions, but perhaps there's another Ochem prof in the department willing to help with the ones the tutor doesn't know?

Also, it might be helpful to get a small white board to do problems on, with colored pens. Makes homework a little more fun, colorful, and quick.

Good luck.

These were the keys to my success in Orgo I and II. I hope you'll find some of them helpful:
1. Organic Chemistry as a Second Language by David Klein - great supplement to your textbook.
2. Read the chapter before class. - Even if I understood just half of what I read, at least I went to class familiar with the day's subject.
3. Solve lots of problems. - I did all my professor's assigned problems. I also downloaded sample exams from websites like this one - http://ochem.jsd.claremont.edu/hints.htm.
4. Use flashcards to memorize reactions. - Draw the reactants on one face, the products on the other, and use the cards to quiz yourself. Many people will say you don't have to memorize to ace Orgo, but I really think you do. In synthesis problems, for example, you have to decide quickly what reactant to use. Some people insist they can "imagine" the mechanism to figure it out. But if I had to "imagine" mechanisms all the time, how could I have finished my tests in an hour? Memorizing saves time in synthesis problems.
5. Understand mechanisms. - I made sure I can explain to myself why a mechanism proceeds the way it does. Because of this, I wasn't scared by mechanism questions on the test because I understood the underlying "story".
Best of luck!

there's a little book out somewhere called "pushing electrons" or something like that. I've heard RAVE reviews about folks literally failing ochem and that little book saving their butt.

If you're having problems with reactions, that book helps you figure out the WHY of the reaction.

OP, firstly, I am sorry for your recent loss. If this person was close to you, I can say first hand that grief will interfere with your ability to focus & understand & concentrate. Since you did okay last semester, and are starting to have more trouble this semester, think about how much grief can be a part of your trouble hearing & focusing in class. A loss in your family will not NOT affect you - so don't discount it.

The textbook we used in organic was by Solomons and it is excellent.
Also, the Examkrackers Organic Chemistry book is very helpful for it's overall approach (I'm not talking about the 1001 Questions book they do) because they get you to think of it in a helpful way. That is, "An alcohol will do X in this situation" - not memorizing each reaction, which is useless (I think).

Also, consider finding a good tutor on the side. Probably one outside of your school, which doesn't sound like they have a great dept.

Hey folks. I'm a nontrad in the sense that I only recently started my quest towards MD. I did do a bachelor's in chemistry, however. I never liked orgo, always was a subject I blew off. I was the kind of guy that did minimal possible to pass. to be frank, i skipped more than shale on still water and studied last minute for exams. I took classes specialized more towards physical chem and analytical chem, figured at the time they were more usseful in finding a career. i took alot of things for granted in those days...

I never took bio (except for an intro biochem) before last summer. My orgo grades in the past were wretched. To get ready for the MCAT I focused on my weaknesses. I thought physics would be my best section, but i remember running into a couple of snags on that section on test day. I took several practice tests online through Princeton review, and the physics sections paled in comparison to the one on the real test day. TO BE EXPECTED.

when it comes to studying orgo, you need to memorize key structures and patterns in the reactions. don't go memorizing the reactions as pictoral representations, but consider what the stuctures themselves represent and why the reaction proceeds as it does. most of teh studying in orgo is visualization for me. I look at the big picture. I did make flashcards for orgo but they did not just contain the drawn reaction, they contained a detailed explanation of the reasons behind the reaction and mechanisms. (yes, you should know many of the basic mechanisms for the MCAT).

for example: a dehydrogenation involves not just the loss of hydrogen, it's also an oxidation. you're typically going from a less stable bond to a stronger, more stable bond. in substitutions and eliminations, there are set patters that you need to recognize: relitive strength of nucleophiles and electrophiles, the reaction media that drive the reaction (and why they do), and the resulting stereochemistry of the products is often a big clue. advanced orgo was easeir once the basics were learned. condensations and organic acid chemistry is mostly a bunch of substitutions and eliminations, sometimes they used in combinations in more complicated reactions. The more advanced the orgo, the less you need to know about it for the MCAT. Questions about diels-alder reactions are typically easy because they only ask about the sterochemisty of the products (a consideration of the mechanism of these reactions is beyond the scope of the MCAT, but the variety of sterochemistry that these reactions produce is fair game).

but before you can do any of this you need to have the basics down cold, really. stereochemistry is an MCAT favorite and you can't do advanced orgo without it. nomenclature will make identifying products and intermediates much easier. and knowing the relative stabilities of analogous structures is a must. i took three orgo courses. actually my orgo 3 grade was the worst of the trio, but i aced the 6 hr/week senior lab. go figure. i hope this helps anyone who is confused about organic chemistry. yes, most organic professors seem dry, but i think that has more to do with the material you're learning and your enthusiasm for it.

some profs don't seems to give a damn, sometimes they're just not fit for lecturing. often their main finction is research, and they become so absorbed in their own work, putting little time into lectures. who can blame them? it is often the school itself, or the faculty, that mandates a prefessor to teach a lecture (especially if his/her reasearch isn't producing many papers). sometimes the bad lecturers have tenure and insist on teaching anyway.

find the smart kid in class and ask to copy his/her notes. often a good notetaker may present the material in a way that strikes you.

that's all i got for now. i'll try to be more poignant and professional in future postings. enjoy the quote, from Richard III.

thought i saved the signature...

Good texbook - L.G. Wade, Jr. Organic Chemistry

I second the recommendation for Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. I read and do all the problems in that. And I skim my textbook (Solomon) and do all the problems there. I don't go to lecture. The OChem as a 2nd Language book and my revised studying plan has taken me from a 72 on the first exam to a 90 and 100 on the next two.

A second C+ on my latest...this means I'm going to have to work extra harder on the last two exams so that one of these C+'s can be my drop. Good advice posted here...will be using it for sure!

glad to know I'm not struggling in org. ii alone... I have a pretty decent A, but we are three weeks into the trimester and I'm working my tail off for it.

I second the "party after organic ends" from an above poster!

I'm good with all the other prereqs but when it comes to organic, its like a whole different world. I dont know what Orgo has to do with the content in med school or in clinical practice but I'm just going to do all I can to make a good grade. I'm right now around a high B in Orgo I. Cant wait to get that and Orgo II over with!

nev said:

I'm good with all the other prereqs but when it comes to organic, its like a whole different world. I dont know what Orgo has to do with the content in med school or in clinical practice but I'm just going to do all I can to make a good grade. I'm right now around a high B in Orgo I. Cant wait to get that and Orgo II over with!

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While organic chemistry might not be used at all in medical school or dental school, for example, professional schools require it because it is among the few pre-med courses that is rich in information and its application, and the ability to APPLY such a large volume of information along with analysis, is a skill that medical schools look at. Organic chemistry requires analysis, synthesis of information, and a lot of conceptual knowledge, and it reveals to medical schools if you have the above skills to survive in medical school. Most other pre-med courses come down to memorization (such a biology), plug and chug math and getting the right equation (general chemistry), and probably even physics as well though I can't say for sure since I have not taken it. So, organic is considered the master and involves critical thinking. But if you're doing well in organic 1, as it is, chances are you will find the second semester easier like many people. I sure did.

I'm taking both courses this semester - eight weeks each, which sounds crazy but is almost twice what you'd have over the summer. Got a 71 on the first exam, got quite behind, and almost dropped. Went Rocky 4 and went out to my rural grandmother's house for three days and did every problem in the textbook and in the great Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. Got an 89 on the second exam and then a 100 on the third one. I needed a 99 or above on the fourth and final exam yesterday to break a 90 average (my school doesn't have + or -s, so it was A or B), but I only scored a 93. Somehow the professor rounded my 89.3 up and the transcript now says A for Orgo I. Life is good.

for me to learn the material, it had to click, which didn't hppen initially. Especially the 2nd semester. So what I started doing was rewrite all of the reactions, the way they were in the notes. Then I would substitute a similar cmpd and work that problem too. I realized that if the "pickture" looked different that what I was used to studying even if I know it's name, etc, I would get distracted/nervous and second guess myself. Once I knew that I had seen it before and was more comfortable with it, seeing different starting compounds made things easier for me.

My class was at night so office hours were right after class. Kinda hard for her to senak away then. But if your prof isn't adhereing to office hours I would send an email (to document this) to the prof stating that you have arrives on several occassions for office hours and having been able to get in touch with him/her and you're concerned about your grade/how your studying and really need to find a time to meet that week. Depending on the prof, you may have to spell it out each week to make sure you have access to them. If you try and nothing works, forward the emails to the cair and find out if there's another section of the class with a different prof who might be willing to sit doen with you or someone else in the department. I'm sure there's a good reason why they miss office hours (I currently have a prof who has hd to amke a lot of adjustments to class because his daughter is sick), but you can't be passive in this situation. I hope this helps! G'luck!

Engineer2MD said:

So I'm now in my second semester of Organic Chemistry. It's not going well. I eeked a B out of first semester. Now, I sit in leacture and literally hear the teacher from Charlie Brown "wha wha wha wha wha."

I have tried everything. I've tried going to class. I've tried not going to class. I've read the book. I've worked problems in the book. I've made flashcards from lectre notes..... nothing works!!!

I have a couple of logistical problems, mainly the fact that I live an hour from campus and commute. I don't really have study partners either. I have a hard time making study sessions anyway because of my other committments.

Also - I'm beginning to think the instructor is not that great. There are 600 students in the class, and he always has an excuse for not showing up to office hours. He will not return e-mails or talk to you outside of office hours. When he is there, there's a line of about 20 - 30 people waiting to talk to him, but when time is up, it's up and he'll literally send you home without help.

Earlier this month was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I had a death in my family and could not be there for the test. I called the instructor, e-mailed him, and got no response. Finally I e-mailed the undergrad TA and literally said "I wo'nt be there Thursday night!" Finally, after the drama, they let me take the test late. (Took forever to get it set up though). After that, the instructor LOST my test!!! I still haven't gotten it back - even though I've been asking about it for 2 weeks! I have no idea how I even did! He doesn't know where it is!!! On Tuesday of this week I went in to see him again. He said it might be in his mailbox, so we walked down to the office together. Then, he stood there in front of me and opened and READ his mail instead of finding my test!

I'm at wit's end. Does anyone have any coping strategies that don't involve large quantities of alcohol and/or ripping my hair out?

I'm not dumb I have a master's degree in engineering.
I should be able to figure this out, right?

Tracia

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Ok, first step, breathe.....breathe....breathe.....

Now that that's out of the way....speaking as a former engineer also, I found a book, "Pushing Electrons" most helpful. You've got to get over your engineering bred desire to understand everything down to the nth degree. Trust me, you will kill yourself in med. school if you continue that behavior....

I made A's in orgo chem and here's what I did...YMMV...

1) Read the book...slowly...until I had all the concepts to where they made sense.

2) The prof gave us practice problems and I worked every one of them and made sure I understood WHY the wrong answers were wrong also.

3) Lots of prayer...I'm not kidding.

and then just muscled my way through it. I too had the hour drive to class, was working two jobs at the time, plus being Dad & Husband...how bad do you want it? And realize this, it's not going to get any easier until the word 'Attending' is associated with 'Physician' and they're talking about you...and even then, the pressure is worse.....

Heyas E2D,

As another engineer, I know what you are going through.

Organic is SOOO different than anything else and you've gotten some good advice so far, so I'm not going to repeat most of it.

The MOST critical part of organic is the basics. Election pushing, relative stablity, nucleophilies, ect. If you don't have this foundation, Orgo II will eat your lunch AND your lunch money.

Also, you HAVE to know your compounds/reactions. A certain amount of memorization is required, but not like Biochem . The basics HELP the memorization by letting you concentrate on the "BIG" picture, and your "basics" fill in the gaps between steps.

The OChem as a 2nd Language book...buy both (I and II). DO EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM IN THE BOOKS! Wash, rinse, repeat. The guy who wrote them understands that the basics are critical.

I got a 73 on my first Orgo test. I got with the "basics" program and wound up with an A (highest score on the final), and I knocked Orgo 2 out of the park with a super grade on the ACS Orgo final. It CAN be done!

Good luck to you!

Oldie

i just have to say that i hate the smith ochem book. i prefer mcmurray + klein 2nd language combo.

I swear... It seems so simple, but repetition, repetition, repetition. I have said this periodically in class when someone asks the professor, "how do people make good grades?"

His response, "That's exactly right, it's the repetition".

I never had to study to get A's. That's a serious detriment to Organic Chemistry students who expect to just cram and get the A. I have to study, study, and study again. Perhaps some people can just cram and get the A. I cannot because cramming only temporarily gets the material in my brain and of course organic chemistry is cumulative so you can't just dump what you learn for one test when you begin studying for the next test.

Seriously, if you are not making an A, do you REALLY spend enough time doing problems and redoing problems and redoing problems? I carried a dry-erase markerboard everywhere I went during the semester of Org 1 so I could constantly do problems, erase, repeat.

I started out with a 70 on my first Org 1 test and improved with each following test and got my A. Org 2 is going well, and it's much easier since I actually learned Org 1 and didn't just cram for it. If you didn't REALLY learn Org 1 it's going to make Org 2 all the more difficult.

Good luck with your studies. Consider the dry-erase board. Blaming the instructor is a cop-out. If the instructor really is that bad, you should be able to learn from the book and not even go to class.

There was a great quote over in PA that read "organic chemicals fix organic chemicals with organic chemicals" that signified the importance of ochem for me

It was... insightful.

IMO, a good o-chem instructor can make or break your learning experience. I had the hardest prof at UT for o-chem 1, but he was also a great teacher. I had to work my *** off, but I learned the subject inside and out, and after that, the second semester was a breeze.

That class also set the tone for the rest of my post-bac coursework. I learned some study skills that I didn't have before. It was a big turning-point for me.

there's this great passage in the klein second language book that gives a good analogy to studying for ochem. i'll paraphrasing:

if you are asked to memorize a script for a 2-hour long movie in 10 hours, it's easier to watch the movie 5 times without trying to memorize than to bang your head for 10 hours memorizing lines with brute force.

the take-home message was this: go over each reaction and mechanism and try to understand what's going on. the memorization comes along with it. if you just try to memorize each mechanism and reaction without understanding, you're going to have a much harder time.

I got an A first quarter and found myself struggling a great deal second quarter when we came to synthesis problems. My trouble was that I didn't have *all* the mechanisms/reagents memorized well enough, so I would struggle about how to get from one step to the next. People like to say that "you just have to understand the mechanisms and then you will be fine if you do problems." Not true in my class. First, we use the Wade book, which in many cases doesn't even explain the mechanism - especially in some of the later chapters, Wade just shovels reactions at you. Also, in my class, the quizzes & tests were essentially 'do this giant multistep synthesis in 15 minutes.' It didn't matter at all how well I understood each mechanism if I could't call them to mind instantly.

SO here is what I did. First, I got the Klein book. Especially helpful was the advice to make problem sets - he gives you sheets with arrows on them, and you have to draw a starting material and a product, then photocopy them and quiz yourself on the reagents. This was intensely helpful.

Then, I made myself flashcards with things like "Alkene to alcohol" or "carbon-carbon bond forming reactions" on them - I flash the card at myself then write down all the reactions/reagents/mechanisms to get from one point to the other, with the relevant stereo/regiochemistry. I've found it's helpful to group them in this way, by functional group. This way, when I sit down to a big-@ss synthesis, I can say... Hmmm, it's a benzene ring with a nitrile and a carboxylic acid... I know x number of ways to make those things. Then I can run them down in my mind or on paper to see which one is appropriate. It keeps me from freezing up on the exams and it has made me much faster.

Also, as many people have stated, I did all the problems in the book until I understood them. That is of course essential. I got an A on the midterm this quarter after bombing several quizzes in a row by picking up my studying this way.

Hope that helps. Orgo sucks and I can't wait for it to end.

really glad I found this thread, I got an A in ochem1, and now struggling really badly in ochem2, had a C- on my first test (a 57) and just had our second test last wednesday and studied my *** off for it, and still did poorly I think, haven't found out my grade yet but I know I blew it big time. Really dissappointing because I dont think ive ever studied that hard before. My professor makes the test 2 pages of reactions/product questions, 2 pages of synthesis problems, and one page of mechanisms. I am going to get this Klein book and add it to my reading, and do as much as i can between now and the next test. I am freaking out because a C would be terrible right now, so far into the post-bac program. I think I will postpone my MCAT to June or July so I can focus on this more. My professor is a crazy russian guy who has no care for his students what so ever, the class average was a 50 on the first test, someone even got a 4 on the test. Reading this thread motivates me and I thank you all for the great tips!

seven weeks. 49 hours total (4 course hours, three lab hrs) a week. make that 47.75 hrs.

but I'm not counting

seriously, this thread makes me happy. misery loves company you know. is anyone else sitting in ochem right now?

st3ady said:

really glad I found this thread, I got an A in ochem1, and now struggling really badly in ochem2, had a C- on my first test (a 57) and just had our second test last wednesday and studied my *** off for it, and still did poorly I think, haven't found out my grade yet but I know I blew it big time. Really dissappointing because I dont think ive ever studied that hard before. My professor makes the test 2 pages of reactions/product questions, 2 pages of synthesis problems, and one page of mechanisms. I am going to get this Klein book and add it to my reading, and do as much as i can between now and the next test. I am freaking out because a C would be terrible right now, so far into the post-bac program. I think I will postpone my MCAT to June or July so I can focus on this more. My professor is a crazy russian guy who has no care for his students what so ever, the class average was a 50 on the first test, someone even got a 4 on the test. Reading this thread motivates me and I thank you all for the great tips!

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First, my sympathies for the non-sympathetic instructor. Try to find someone else in the department (maybe a biochem instructor, or gen chem) who can explain things for you. Be gracious when describing why you're not asking the course instructor. He can't fail half the class, can he

Second, I studied more for orgo than I did for MCAT. By far. So relax a little.
Don't delay your MCAT till July unless you are planning to wait another year to apply. Applying late is, I think, just about the worst thing you can do to your application.

My orgo strategy: I read the chapter, then did problems until I was getting them right. Then I went back and read again. I think whether/how much you do problems depends on your text and your exam format. We used Solomons, and I used organic chem as a second language, but only for the first term. For me, I didn't really process the information while reading it, it was only by doing the problems that I understood what the text was explaining to me.

Also, for spectra, I relied heavily on process of elimination (oh, that doesn't have an -OH, etc), which allowed me to squeak by, and was MORE than sufficient for MCAT.

another day in orgo hell... 6 weeks to go after today. ahhh!

I took an intro to organic and biochem class at my community college the semester before I started organic chem at my university. I realize that won't help you now, but I've found community colleges tend to go at a slower pace and people aren't as afraid to ask for extra explanations in class, so it was very helpful.

I double-majored in English and Psychology, and didn't decide on the pre-med track until my senior year. Absolutely no science classes during my undergrad career except for geology. So I was starting from scratch. And I got an A in both organic chem classes.

Osteomania said:

Good texbook - L.G. Wade, Jr. Organic Chemistry

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2nd this. If you don't have this text, get it. It doesn't get much better than this. Basically I just read the chapter word for word, do the in-chapter problems that come up during the reading (right away as they come up, not later after reading the whole chapter). This way, when I'm done reading the chapter, I basically feel like I know the material pretty well. So when I go to do the end of the chapter problems, they seem pretty easy. It does take a while to go through a chapter this way. I think I probably spend 4-5 hrs per chapter- reading, highlighting, writing side notes, doing problems that come up.

Then probably 1 or 2 more hours working on practice problems at the end of the chapter.

So, yeah, that seems like a lot of work, but I almost never re-read anything and I'm doing pretty well. There's no secret here... the book really does teach you everything you need to know. Just read it! I go to the tutor room sometimes and see people there asking these questions that are easily answerable if they had just read the book. "What does more substituted mean ?" errr..

I have heard nightmares about these classes, but I am wondering what skills do you think are essential in doing well in Organic Chem? I guess I am trying to predict my success rate! I tend to grasp conceptual ideas very well (I was a 4.0 English major). I always did well in philosophy, critical thinking, and literature classes. Does that mode of thinking correlate whatsoever to organic chemistry? I have a high A in general chem right now, but I hear that they are completely different. Any help would be appreciated!

I was an English major too with a lot of hardcore critical theory classes and such. Those types of skills will help, sure, but what you really need is enough time to put in to learn the stuff. I am sure you are capable of it, but don't overbook yourself with other things. Stay organized, and don't fall behind. Practice practice practice and you'll be ok. The main things you need are

1) a certain level of native intelligence
2) good study skills and habits
3) time

Anything I'm leaving out?

One More Rep said:

I have heard nightmares about these classes, but I am wondering what skills do you think are essential in doing well in Organic Chem? I guess I am trying to predict my success rate! I tend to grasp conceptual ideas very well (I was a 4.0 English major). I always did well in philosophy, critical thinking, and literature classes. Does that mode of thinking correlate whatsoever to organic chemistry? I have a high A in general chem right now, but I hear that they are completely different. Any help would be appreciated!

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O-chem is very skewed toward conceptual thinking, imo. Much more so than gen chem (which I hated). O-chem.. I adore.

Actually, if anything, o-chem seems a lot like a foreign language. Your prof might even compare it to one (several of mine have made the analogy in the past): basically, you need to first learn the basic vocab (naming molecules, drawing Lewis structures, electron pushing etc.), the basic grammar (periodic trends, esp electronegativities, idea that more stable molecules are weaker nucleophiles/bases, etc.). And, after that, it's just a matter of practice. But you can't skimp out on firmly learning the basic "grammar" and expect to memorize your way through all the rest of the course.

I think some people try to memorize their way through the gazillion reactions without having taken the time to understand the basic principles that run through all the reactions... and the result is much like a tourist who has memorized stock phrases like "Where is the restroom?" and "Hello, nice to meet you"... that doesn't mean they really know how to communicate by actually forming new sentences. O-chem syntheses ("make this molecule") is much like learning to compose sentences in a foreign language. There are grammatically correct ways to go about it, ways that are totally wrong, and ways that kinda work ("get your point across") but are nevertheless not ideal. The lack of rote-memorization (as compared to biochem, etc.) is what makes it fun, I think.

www.chemicalforums.com can be one of your best friends. these guys will help you out on any questions you have. if it weren't for CF, I probably wouldn't have an a in ochem ii

OP, I can certainly relate to you! My mother passed away last month, and I am also trying to finish orgo II while dealing with my grief. I've also become sick (shingles) as a result of the stress. I'm so sorry for your loss and for the difficult time you've been having. Here are some of my suggestions:

1) Know where the electrons are and where they're going. Most of the time, if you can predict where the electrons are most likely to want to go, then you can understand and reproduce the mechanism/reaction.

2) Make index cards, but only for reactions and major mechanisms (otherwise it just becomes too much). Also, on the index card, write the purpose of the reaction ("Removes Oxygen from aldehydes/ketones", for example). If you can understand where this reaction fits in the grand scheme of things or how it's different from all the others, then it will be easier to remember.

3) Work every homework problem, and check your answer with a solutions manual. Don't check the manual first...slog through the homework problem absolutely as far as you can before you give in to checking the answer. Even if it takes you thirty minutes to solve that one horrible problem at the end of the chapter, do it anyway.

4) Begin to look for patterns. After time, you'll notice that many of the reactions/mechanisms share trends. Once you have those trends down (and know where those pesky electrons are!), you're home-free.

Best of luck to you!

So... I keep hearing from people that the third term of organic (obviously at a trimester school) is not necessary and that taking biochem is a suitable replacement. Is this true? I had a 4.0 until the second term of Organic in which I received a big fat B. Can one apply with only two terms of organic with the plan of taking biochem in the fall of our application year? Taking the MCAT in may and that kind of time would be really useful between now and then.

Thought I aced the test, and I got a low B. I'm going to get a second B hopefully in Ochem (in 2), and I'm totally ok with that. Grateful, actually. Some classes are just a b&*^ch and this one is one of them. I've worked harder than I could have, and there is nothing I would change - I literally studied nonstop, and if a B is the best I can do - I have to live with that. It's terrible though, and it makes me upset. I can't wait to be done with this.

Not a premed, but I am an organic chem tutor. The class is really all about concepts. You DO need to memorize the reagents and what they do (makes synthesis problems much faster and easier) but if you are presented with a similar-but-not-identical reagent, you will need to know HOW and WHY things happen in order to predict a product in a new situation.

I highly recommend Klein's books to the students that I tutor. Klein taught my organic chem I class, and my organic II professor taught Klein when Klein was an undergrad. Both are excellent professors and Klein's book is the best organic chemistry text that I have found. It is clear, informative, and has practice problems with solutions.

See I not only knew every reagent, but I was speedy and creative with synthesis before the test on the practice problems. I'll get it back this week, but still to this second - I have no idea what I could have done wrong. Even the people I studied with remarked how prepared I was ...I'm so depressed. I've never worked harder for a single class in my life. A low B is just not good enough. I'm barely going to eek it again as the poster put it, and it simply isn't evident of my knowledge of the concepts. Even with my practice MCAT stuff - it shows I know it better.

I have an OChem II midterm tomorrow.



I know the mechanisms, my prof just loves to ask things in such muddy ways that you never know if you're actually answering his question or not.