Advice on being out in medical school

orion1978 · Jul 12, 2003

I'd like to specifically address this message to those who are gay and out in medical school or are straight, open minded, and observant of other's anti-gay attitudes. Basically, I have a great boyfriend and would like to bring him to our back-to-school party (I'm an incoming M1 at a medical school in the Deep South). I have decided against it because I'd like to get to know the school better before I blindly out myself. However, I have wondered what to do in the future because he is a great person, and I have no desire to hide him from colleagues. At the same time, I don't want to expose myself to more discrimination from those in power than necessary. I am very much a person to keep his private life private--this would never surface in the work environment. Given this dilemma, I am wondering how anti-gay medicine can be.

If you are one of those who feels the need to be short-sighted and insist that my sexuality has no bearing in medical school, please think again and consider beginning your own thread. I am simply interested in hearing the experiences of other people with the same dilemma.

beanbean · Jul 12, 2003

I am also an incoming M1 and have worked in the medical field many years. Although there are some colleagues who will have a problem with your sexual orientation, I don't think this attitude is necessarily any more prevalent in medicine than it is in many other professional careers. How much of your personal life you disclose to others is a very personal choice and it sounds like your plan for the social activities associated with orientation is a good one. Giving yourself a chance to meet people and get a feel for the environment should give you some input on whether or not this will be an issue in the future. Does your school have an association for gay/bi/lesbian students?

I have friends who have chosen to be very open in their professional lives and others who have done the opposite. There are obviously positives and negatives to both choices. Speaking for myself (white, married straight woman in my mid-thirties), I am looking forward to meeting ALL of my classmates. I'm sure there will be some I like more than others, but this will not be based upon their age, color or sexual orintation, etc. I look forward to meeting a diverse group of people at my orientation who will each broaden and enrich my medical school experience.

Good luck to you and your partner.

Wednesday · Jul 12, 2003

orion,

This sounds very familiar to me, although luckily I am not at school in the South (did that during undergrad).

I am an older student and have been out personally and professionally since my partner and I got together. When I started school I was surprised at how conservative my classmates were. At first I thought I would never fit in with any of them. The tactic I took was the one I have always taken: never pushed outing myself, but I do talk freely about my partner and just let people deduce the truth. Slowly but surely, all of the other gay students came out of the woodwork. The funny thing is that I don't even hang out with them, all of the people I am good friends with in my class are straight!

So the problem of the other students hasn't turned out to be a problem at all. I have run across some interesting attitudes in some of my instructors, not toward me personally but in general comments some of them have made. But the fact is that doctors are taught to be professional and not let their personal feelings interfere with their work (not that all are successful at this). Additionally a gay med student is nothing compared to some things that doctors see all the time. If anything people might be surprised at first and then move on.

As for leaving your boyfriend home during the initial parties, I'm not sure I would do that. I have always felt that if I am myself from the beginning and don't try to hide anything then people understand that I am not ashamed of my sexuality and maybe they will get the idea that it isn't something to be ashamed about. It also makes things much less complicated. You won't always have to be explaining or remembering who knows the truth and who doesn't, worrying about being exposed, having girls fall in love with you, etc. 😉

Good luck to you. I guess my overall feeling about this issue is that you should try to uncomplicate your life as much as possible. Med school is challenging enough. One more thought: if you bring him and just introduce him by name, it is possible that no one will figure it out! (I can't even count how many times this has happened to me. Silly breeders. 😀 )

8744 · Jul 12, 2003

You should come out. You will see that nobody cares. I am about as conservative and heterosexual as they come and I wouldn't care.

Naturally people will talk about you but they gossip about everybody else as well.

This reminds me of a Gay Pride parade I was unfortunate enough to see in Burlington, Vermont this summer. leading the parade were a group of transvestites (or whatever they want to be called nowadays) chanting "we're here, we're queer, we're not going to live in fear." News flash. Nobody is going to persecute you. I don't know why everybody picks on the South, but we are notorious here for minding our own *****ing business.

If you bring your same-sex partner to a school function and comport yourself with an equal level of dignity and manners as your heterosexual classmates and their partners then you will do fine.

You shouldn't be ashamed of who you are, buddy, or afraid of the extremely rare bigot who just won't mind his own business.

TulaneKid24 · Jul 12, 2003

Just be yourself. You can never go wrong being yourself.

Yes, I am sure you will run into a very small fraction of people who will not like you because you are gay. Then again, people will sometimes just not like you for whatever reasons that have nothing to do with being gay.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised that the majority your classmates will not care that you are gay.

Good Luck with medical school.

orion1978 · Jul 13, 2003

Thanks for the replies. To be honest, I'm not really worried about what most ppl think. I've done this before in undergraduate when I was the first member of a fraternity to publicly come out at a meeting. What bothers me is the subtle discrimination that may or may not exist. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing. Who knows. I used to teach high school, and someone happened to find out--the results were not good. 🙂

yipeee · Jul 13, 2003

i have a question for you and maybe you can help me out. a group of us at school have been very good friends for a long time. one of our friends (a guy) is gay. he is very conservative about this even all of us have figured it out a long time ago. he goes as far as saying his boyfriend is his cousin and hidding things when we come over. to me this is not a big deal at all b/c i have a gay uncle. my family has always accepted this as well. in fact he is my favorite person of my close relatives (although we are not supposed to have favorites, hehehe).

it actually bothers us more that he goes to such lengths to hide it. how can we get the message through so that he feels it is okay that we know?

Doc Ivy · Jul 13, 2003

I think if you come out as gay the very first day it will be no big deal. It will be just part of who you are--- like the kid with braces back in highschool. Who doesn't know a homosexual these days anyway???
But if you stay closetted, and come out subsequently, more people will be shocked and dare I say "disappointed"--- you'll invite the very drama you were trying to avoid.

missMD · Jul 13, 2003

I am not gay but as a black woman I think that in some ways our situation will be similar. What will most likely happen is the following: No one will disrespect you to your face, however some people may say things when you are not around. You will make great friends here just like other students but don't be suprised if there are one or two who have a real problem with you (just ignore them). People may make comments that are offensive. They are not trying to be mean they just don't realize how some things can be interpreted from a gay person's perspective. One last thing, faculty members MAY also disapoint you. It is important to stay strong.
I'm sure the decision about whether or not to come out is not an easy one. But as a black and a female who can hide neither one of these characteristics I can say that strength, love, family and friends will pull you through. Remember that there have been a lot of gay people ahead of you who have done it and you can do it too!

labangel · Jul 13, 2003

I think what surprised me most about my classmates is how conservative they are. During a discussion about homosexuality, I was shocked to hear people that I had spent months with talk about how they believed it was against God's plan and all that. They then proceeded to say that they don't think that their attitudes would compromise their care of a gay patient. They just didn't seem to get the point that their attitude would manage to come across one way or another. And they also seemed oblivious to how hostile the discussion was becoming and if anyone in our group was gay, there is no way they would have felt comfortable coming out to these people. Anyway, the reason I bring this story up is for the posters who don't think these attitudes are prevalent when they still are...

pxz · Jul 14, 2003

Originally posted by labangel
I think what surprised me most about my classmates is how conservative they are. During a discussion about homosexuality, I was shocked to hear people that I had spent months with talk about how they believed it was against God's plan and all that. They then proceeded to say that they don't think that their attitudes would compromise their care of a gay patient. They just didn't seem to get the point that their attitude would manage to come across one way or another. And they also seemed oblivious to how hostile the discussion was becoming and if anyone in our group was gay, there is no way they would have felt comfortable coming out to these people. Anyway, the reason I bring this story up is for the posters who don't think these attitudes are prevalent when they still are...

Well, we do not have to like every patient and/or agree with every patient's lifestyle to be a good physician. All of us dislike certain kinds of people.

Doc Ivy · Jul 14, 2003

The challenge as physicians is to learn dispassionate advocacy. That being said, you have a lot more to overcome if you passionately dislike someone and or his/her lifestyle to begin with.

I bet ER docs get really good at this, given all the drug addicts and violent offenders with GSWs they have to treat.

Zack90 · Jul 14, 2003

As a gay M2, my advice is to bring your boyfriend. Yes, I believe someone, somewhere at your school will do something to piss you off because you're gay, but that's life. I very much agree with other posters, be yourself and have fun and don't sweat this one.... I bring my partner to school events and talk about him just like anyone else would talk about his/her bf/gf....

Panda Bear - I enjoyed your post - thanks for sharing your opinion.....

orion1978 · Jul 14, 2003

Hi gang,
Thanks for the replies. As I've said earlier, I'm more worried about future plans--i.e. residency/fellowship than the reactions of my classmates. Discrimination is often very subtle--"I'd be more comfortable working with this guy than him--no matter what their qualifications are." I don't think discrimination is all that blatant--as a rule, ppl do not often push themselves to explore unfamiliar territory. Straight men often must get past the "ick" factor...

As far as pxz and labangel's post, they were excellent. It brings a point that challenges us all--keeping our personal feelings from affecting the manner of care that we offer our patients. My favorite physician appears to be a rotund good old boy, but he has been the best doctor that I've had as far as listening with a nonjudgmental ear (his staff was another story).

Anyhow, thanks for the posts.

sperry · Jul 15, 2003

It's nice to see a thread like this w/thoughful posts instead of flaming rants!! Anyway orion, as everyone else has said - bring the bf and start out your time at med school fully out. As far as I've been able to tell (but I'm only an entering MS1...) - it shouldn't affect your later training/career any more than it would in another profession. Sexuality will/should rarely come up during residency interviews. And if it does - well, you take your chances. I'd bet that most programs are looking for the best qualified candidates that will pump up their rep and numbers, regardless of their sexuality. And, it seems like it's becoming more common for positive recruitment to be seen as a plus for a program/hospital.

ack...blah, blah, blah - I'm not expressing myself well. Just be who you are. It's the sanest and least complicated way to live your life. Deal with the consequences as they come - don't over-anticipate the negative. Sounds like you've already had to deal with the consequences before - and life hasn't ended. It may be tought to deal with, but new opportunities always arise.

I, myself, am planning on having my gf w/me at the receptions and such during orientation and she'll be the one to give me my white coat during the ceremony. I couldn't deny her or myself that honor. Whatever you decide Good Luck!!!

BlackPuma · Jul 19, 2003

Originally posted by Panda Bear
You should come out. You will see that nobody cares. I am about as conservative and heterosexual as they come and I wouldn't care.

Naturally people will talk about you but they gossip about everybody else as well.

This reminds me of a Gay Pride parade I was unfortunate enough to see in Burlington, Vermont this summer. leading the parade were a group of transvestites (or whatever they want to be called nowadays) chanting "we're here, we're queer, we're not going to live in fear." News flash. Nobody is going to persecute you. I don't know why everybody picks on the South, but we are notorious here for minding our own *****ing business.

If you bring your same-sex partner to a school function and comport yourself with an equal level of dignity and manners as your heterosexual classmates and their partners then you will do fine.

You shouldn't be ashamed of who you are, buddy, or afraid of the extremely rare bigot who just won't mind his own business.

am I the only one on this website who isn't stunned by panda's response?

has somebody else been loggin in as panda? this coming from teh same person who said gay are deviants of society who are trying to corrupt christian minds and are simply equivalents of pedophilia wrecking havoc on the marriage sanctity?

THIS from the same person, is telling a gay guy to come out? 😱

when did you get the epiphany that gays aren't on a mission to destroy american values?

I'm really stunned and speechless...

to the original poster...

I seriously recommend against coming out from day one. There are a lot of people who are still intolerant of such views, and chanes are most of the administrators are old kewl. listen, it seems as if for gays, for them to live, or just be themselves is "offensive" to right winged wackos..

my advice is, test the waters, and invite your bf to parties were you know people are more tolerant..

ur bound to get a good mix of tolerant, and religous fanatics in any med school class, and yes medicine is still conservative..

why burn bridges from day one? its so funny on how day to day basis, straight pple introduce their gfs and it isnt no big issue...

but for gay pple, introducing ur bf is making a political statement 🙄

I wish you and your bf the best of luck though...

congrats on med school too 🙂

OrthoFixation · Jul 19, 2003

I think you will meet resistance from staff due to their age and thoughts. I know many older people who are great but extremely racist. What I call "old school." I would suggest caution, but if your orientation will come out...does it really matter when?

I am straight, do not believe in a gay lifestyle FOR ME, but really don't give a rip what others do with their lives as long as they're not hurting anyone.

Good luck.

pocwana · Jul 22, 2003

Subject: [lgbtpm] Women in Medicine Medical Student Mentoring Program (sorry guys, just for the gals)

Dear Students,

My name's Liz Tillman. I'm a third year resident at Brown University's Rhode Island
Hospital Internal Medicine Program as well as a Board Member of Women in Medicine
(WIM), a national lesbian/bisexual/MTF physicians organization. If anyone would like
more information about either of these programs, please feel free to contact me.

Also, I'm coordinating a mentoring program through WIM for any interested students.
This program runs year-round, not just during our annual conferences; so if anyone
would like to be connected with a mentor, again, please let me know. Over 45
attendings have offered their support and expertise -- Don't miss this chance to connect
with women who've been through what you're going through and will be experiencing!

Wishing everyone a wonderful summer --

Sincerely,

Liz

Elizabeth Tillman, MD, Board Member
Women in Medicine
[email protected]

P.S. Please pass this message on to others who may not be connected with the AMSA
Listserv.

BlackPuma · Jul 22, 2003

Originally posted by pocwana
Subject: [lgbtpm] Women in Medicine Medical Student Mentoring Program (sorry guys, just for the gals)

Dear Students,

My name's Liz Tillman. I'm a third year resident at Brown University's Rhode Island
Hospital Internal Medicine Program as well as a Board Member of Women in Medicine
(WIM), a national lesbian/bisexual/MTF physicians organization. If anyone would like
more information about either of these programs, please feel free to contact me.

Also, I'm coordinating a mentoring program through WIM for any interested students.
This program runs year-round, not just during our annual conferences; so if anyone
would like to be connected with a mentor, again, please let me know. Over 45
attendings have offered their support and expertise -- Don't miss this chance to connect
with women who've been through what you're going through and will be experiencing!

Wishing everyone a wonderful summer --

Sincerely,

Liz

Elizabeth Tillman, MD, Board Member
Women in Medicine
[email protected]

P.S. Please pass this message on to others who may not be connected with the AMSA
Listserv.

ur a third year medical student? really at brown? wow impressive

pocwana · Jul 22, 2003

Originally posted by WatchaMaCallit
ur a third year medical student? really at brown? wow impressive

'twould be impressive were i a 3rd year at brown but alas, i was just forwarding the info for others' benefit

BlackPuma · Jul 23, 2003

Originally posted by pocwana
'twould be impressive were i a 3rd year at brown but alas, i was just forwarding the info for others' benefit

yah cuz last time I recalled u were a premed...I was like from premed to 3rd year what a leap...very impressive 😀

Jalby · Jul 23, 2003

Is there any chance I could get a bisexual female mentor????

But I think you should come with the boyfriend. Screw the intolerant people, you wouldn't want to know them anyways.

Pickle Salt · Jul 23, 2003

yeah i agree with jalby. bring your boyfriend. who gives a f*ck what others think? you dont want to be friends with close-minded cretins anyway.

LetGo of TheEgo · Jul 23, 2003

Originally posted by Panda Bear

If you bring your same-sex partner to a school function and comport yourself with an equal level of dignity and manners as your heterosexual classmates and their partners then you will do fine.

This is an interesting comment. Do you expect homosexuals to act differently than heterosexuals?

edit: To avoid a prolonged and highly polarized debate, I will not reply to your response.

HouseHead · Jul 24, 2003

Hey pocwana- do you know if this is just a state/regional thing, or country-wide?

Originally posted by pocwana
Subject: [lgbtpm] Women in Medicine Medical Student Mentoring Program (sorry guys, just for the gals)

Dear Students,

My name's Liz Tillman. I'm a third year resident at Brown University's Rhode Island
Hospital Internal Medicine Program as well as a Board Member of Women in Medicine
(WIM),

pocwana · Jul 24, 2003

Originally posted by HouseHead
Hey pocwana- do you know if this is just a state/regional thing, or country-wide?

I don't know. I got the e-mail through an AMSA list-serve, which is a national organization. I would presume they would make efforts to find someone where you're at. Just send an e-mail to find out and let us know 🙂

sfjohn · Jul 25, 2003

hey orion - i pm'd you.

Asher · Aug 14, 2003

Orion, I PMed you as well.

citygirl · Aug 14, 2003

I think the attitude of the students and faculty will vary greatly with where you are. Most universities have a gay/lesbian student organization of some kind. It might be a good idea to get in touch with the group at your particular institution and see what the general climate is like. I'm from San Francisco and will be attending UCSF where the attitude is very open. I'm not naive enough to believe that the rest of the world (or even the rest of California) is like that and I certainly understand your concern. It's easy to tell you to just be yourself and screw what everyone else thinks, but your future is still partly in the hands of other students who can be supportive or destructive and faculty who will be writing you letters of rec for residency. Sorry, that was a lot of blah, blah, blah. In short, see what you can find on the school's website regarding student organizations.

VienneseWaltz · Aug 14, 2003

How does your bf feel about it? I won't presume to know about the dynamics of your particular relationship, but if I were your bf I might resent being "hidden." I agree with most of the posters here--bring your bf. People who are going to discriminate against you once they realize you're gay are not going to be swayed by getting to know you first. I do understand your concern over subtle discrimination, though. As someone who has published opinion pieces, I know what it's like to make enemies you don't even realize you have. I still say be who you are from the beginning. 🙂

Blanch · Aug 14, 2003

I am an entering MS1 and have been debating this same issue. I have come to the decision that I will wait awhile before letting my classmates know my sexual orientation, maybe one or two quarters. It's important to me to allow my classmates to get to know me first before I am open with them about my sexuality. I agree with other posters that most people wouldn't care, even at a medical school in the South. But there are some people who, consciously or subconsciously, would have a hard time getting to know me if they knew I was gay. In undergrad, I came out very quickly... during orientation I think. As my freshman year unfolded, I came to realize that there was a subset of my dormmates who I couldn't seem to get to know very well for whatever reason. Also, I overheard many very pejorative comments about other LGBT students in my dorm, and realized that these individuals were likely also making comments about myself. Perhaps if I had given it some time and allowed all of my dorm to get to know me for my many other qualities, my sexuality may not have been an issue for some later on.
Medical students are generally more mature than college freshman. Nevertheless, I plan on being very conservative and scoping things out gradually before I am totally open about my sexuality. This is a personal decision and I can also see the argument for coming out early. Allowing your partner to feel comfortable with your classmates is certainly a good reason to bring him to the party and introduce him as your partner, but you have to judge your own comfort level with being out right away.

citygirl · Aug 16, 2003

The LGBT Student Group at my school just posted an e-mail notice that they are conducting a seminar on this very subject! I'm a long way from your school in the Deep South, but I would encourage you again to see if your school has any such organization.

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