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Why even bother training physicians anymore?
https://blog.amedd.army.mil/tsg/index.cfm?Page=PostViewSingle&PostId=369
https://blog.amedd.army.mil/tsg/index.cfm?Page=PostViewSingle&PostId=369
Why even bother training physicians anymore?
There's got to be more behind your post than those two lines. Care to expand??
I completely agree. This is utterly embarrassing. She didn't exactly do a good job leading the Nurse Corps - so why not give her more responsibility. This is utterly atrocious I also count my days - The military has been good to me but bad times are coming. I think all of us can expect extremely lean and toxic times ahead, in terms of funding and leadership... Hopefully I'm wrong.I simply can't believe this.
-Earmuffs for those who are easily offended-
"MG" Horoho is a slick sleeve nurse who if I recall correctly was awarded a Soldier's Medal (usually a big deal) for actions during the crash at Pope in 1994. Apparently she "organized triage activities" during this deal.
I cannot comprehend how the powers that be could nominate a NURSE to be SURGEON GENERAL. Especially one who has never deployed (not that nurses are combat multipliers anyway) This whole thing is so bass-ackwards I want to puke. Oh yeah, somehow she skipped rank from COL to "Major General" too. Real Generals like MG Terry Allen (Big Red One commander during WWII) must be rolling in their graves.
Granted, the Army I think treats its Docs better than the Navy or AF but to nominate a nurse to be Surgeon General is disgraceful.
Embarrassing. Indicative. Time to punch out.
I completely agree. This is utterly embarrassing. She didn't exactly do a good job leading the Nurse Corps - so why not give her more responsibility. This is utterly atrocious I also count my days - The military has been good to me but bad times are coming. I think all of us can expect extremely lean and toxic times ahead, in terms of funding and leadership... Hopefully I'm wrong.
I'd like to think the Navy wouldn't do this, but they put a NC admiral in charge of Bethesda a while back, with predictable results.
I don't generally object to non-physicians being placed in positions of administrative authority. God knows I'd rather put a gun in my mouth than my name on a door over on the admin wing, and I know I'm not alone on the physician side in feeling this way. Someone's got to do those jobs.
My current dept head is a CRNA, the DSS is a nurse, the hospital XO is a nurse, the hospital CO is a physician who hasn't practiced in forever. Sound like hell? It's not - it all works just fine because they're reasonable people and good administrators who (generally) don't try to micromanage medical care or get in the way of physicians delivering care.
They aren't the ones inflicting online training on me. They aren't the ones who decided I need to spend 4 hours getting mandatory diversity training at the base theater next Monday. The non-physicians in the chain above me are good people. I don't always 100% agree with them, but I'm not deluded enough to think I would if only they were doctors.
All that said, the Surgeon General of the Army should be a doctor.
The story is missing from the Surgeon General's Blog for me. Is it coming up for you guys?
The whole thing is just such an incredible, embarrassing travesty. I don't have the answers but am counting the days until I am out of this place, where the lunatics are running the asylum.
Really haven't heard a thing more about this. Any news??
leading the medical corps but having never deployed to OIF or OEF to me is problematic. it's one thing for a hospital commander to be a slick sleeve (please tell me haiti didn't count as a "deployment"),
I sent off a few letters today including to the American Medical Association. I have the utmost respect for nurses and believe in a multidisciplinary team approach but the Surgeon General is a physician!!
Here is a crazy question: Why SG be filled by a nurse? I really did not feel that Army medicine was all that great under the leadership by SG who was a physician during last few years. For example Nurses running the clinic and the hospital. Why can't nurse now be a SG? They stay long enough in admin position to groom for the job whereas docs get out at soonest opportunity. At my level I do no think a nurse or a physican working as SG makes any difference. I guess I will find out...
I understand the concern some physicians might have seeing that a non-physician is at the top of their corps structure. But the reality is that the SG job is mostly as a mouthpiece for the line leadership and the defense secretariat, and the fact that the person is a doctor or nurse is probably not all that relevant; advocacy for the medical corps has never been much a part of their brief. Most have followed a train of administrative assignments, most with a mid-career masters in some area of organizational management, MBA or MHA or the like. They are ribbon cutters and budget cutters.
Here is a crazy question: Why SG be filled by a nurse? I really did not feel that Army medicine was all that great under the leadership by SG who was a physician during last few years. For example Nurses running the clinic and the hospital. Why can't nurse now be a SG? They stay long enough in admin position to groom for the job whereas docs get out at soonest opportunity. At my level I do no think a nurse or a physican working as SG makes any difference. I guess I will find out...
The DoD and Army must know the decision is controversial. The DoD must be extremely dissatisfied with military medicine to support an appointment like that.
The job description is right there in the title: a surgeon is a title that in the current day and age is universally associated with a physician. A general is a leader. A Surgeon General is therefore a physician-leader.
Here is a crazy question: Why SG be filled by a nurse? I really did not feel that Army medicine was all that great under the leadership by SG who was a physician during last few years. For example Nurses running the clinic and the hospital. Why can't nurse now be a SG? They stay long enough in admin position to groom for the job whereas docs get out at soonest opportunity. At my level I do no think a nurse or a physican working as SG makes any difference. I guess I will find out...
Does the Surgeon General really contribute or add any value to the medical system, GME or patient care?
Does the Surgeon General really contribute or add any value to the medical system, GME or patient care? Seems like on the operational side the higher ranking generals are involved but maybe it is opposite in the medical system.
Why are people apalled by this?
The answer is simple, "politics"
We all know that the Army has a "good 'ol boy" system and if you are regarded as a "golden boy" (or in this case golden girl) then you can do no wrong and get awarded positions such as this.
I am sure that each and every one of us here can state countless examples of where he have seen some like this happen. Thus, this news should not surprise anybody.
Sure does. Several years ago Peach Taylor (AF SG at the time) unilaterally decided that any medical student who did not match into a specialty would be forced directly into flight medicine without a shot at applying for advanced GME during internship. He made that decision to fill holes in flight surgery billets and therefore, has a lot of influence over GME and patient care.
Oh, you asked "add any value." In that case, no.
Probably subtracted value. That fiasco embittered a whole class of young docs, most of whom are now separating to go on to finally do their residency. The SG got to put "solved flight surgeon manning crisis!" on his OPR, but now the manning crisis is worse than ever PLUS the AF is losing an increased number of physicians, many of whom are negative advocates for the AF after the experience.
Well, sure, but that's just aproblemopportunity for the next SG.
To be fair though, we exist to support the line. The line needed flight surgeons. They had to come from someplace. If the AF had taken board eligible/certified docs from their clinics they'd be angry that the pool of PGY-1 grads wasn't tapped. It was a bad situation with no perfect solution.
The negligence and guilt for the FS shortage and its GME impact doesn't belong only with that SG; it was 100 bad decisions made by as many people over the previous decade (or longer).
I would say that the perfect solution would be to push for Flight surgery to be converted primarily to a midlevel billet, with regimantal level physician supervision. The midlevel get the increased responsibility and deployments that they crave while practicing the basic level of primary care they're actually qualified for, while the docs can focus their attention on first training and then providing physician level care to patients who are actually sick like they're trained for.
I would say that the perfect solution would be to push for Flight surgery to be converted primarily to a midlevel billet, with regimantal level physician supervision. The midlevel get the increased responsibility and deployments that they crave while practicing the basic level of primary care they're actually qualified for, while the docs can focus their attention on first training and then providing physician level care to patients who are actually sick like they're trained for.
I've long been in favor of the same thing for the Marine GMO community. PAs and IDCs at the battalion level, board eligible/certified physicians at the regimental level.
Agree with your marine comment. But that would only work if BC FP/IM/EM docs are put at regiment and you have 2-3 PAs and "some" 8425 IDCs at Battalion. I think putting a GMO physician (I realize you didn't propose this) at regiment would be too overwhelming. just my $0.02