Ask me (almost) anything

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Originally Posted by ialwayslose

I think if lizzym were up for it, a thread along the lines of "ask a random ad com anything" would be extremely helpful to avoid thread hijacks in the threads where lizzym posts.

Good luck to all of you, I hope you get an interview after the holiday break.

Here you go.

However, I will not answer :

• "what are my chances?" (there's a separate place for that)
• "will you read my personal statement?"
• "where do you work?"

Keep in mind that there may be 100 different ways to do med school admissions and I'm familiar with only one and at a top tier private school so take what I say with a grain of salt.

What is the most outrageous non-medical related EC you have read before? Like something that totally blew you away?

does the question "how do you see me?" fall under the "what are my chances?" category?

Originally Posted by xXIDaShizIXx

What is the most outrageous non-medical related EC you have read before? Like something that totally blew you away?

Enlisted in the Marines, then attended & graduated from the Naval Academy.

Originally Posted by LizzyM

Enlisted in the Marines, then attended & graduated from the Naval Academy.

Wow. I feel like I should have a "insert marine intelligence related joke here" spot. lol

Originally Posted by tenndoc

does the question "how do you see me?" fall under the "what are my chances?" category?

Don't go there.

Can a school's non-academic reputation count against the student (ie a scandal)?

Originally Posted by LizzyM

Here you go.



However, I will not answer :

• "what are my chances?" (there's a separate place for that)
• "will you read my personal statement?"
• "where do you work?"

Keep in mind that there may be 100 different ways to do med school admissions and I'm familiar with only one and at a top tier private school so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Honestly, Lizzy I've wanted you to do this for so long now that you have I almost don't know what to ask you lol. However I will say I defintely appreciate you and Catalystik for all the advice you have given to thousands over the years.

On another note, is it really pretty much pointless to apply to a school thats top ten with stellar stats, ec's, and letters without much research? If so, how much is enough research? Because I support myself and it's hard to mix in a lot of research, work, and take 16+credits a semester (not to sound like im complaining). Not sure if I could get a publication by graduation

At what point do PSes and/or secondary essays actually get read? Can they really make up for a subpar academic performance (GPA or MCAT) in order to get an interview, or are the essays more used in post-interview decisions?

Were the majority of med students at top schools "cookie-cutter" but just really good at it (high GPA, high MCAT, meaningful extracurricular involvement--but fairly standard stuff) or were the majority of them off-the-wall-amazing at some exceptionally unique thing?

Originally Posted by RavishingB

Can a school's non-academic reputation count against the student (ie a scandal)?

No, but how you respond to an interviewers question or comment about it can make or break you.

what qualities do you look for in students when they are interviewing?

Originally Posted by FloridaMedicine

Honestly, Lizzy I've wanted you to do this for so long now that you have I almost don't know what to ask you lol. However I will say I defintely appreciate you and Catalystik for all the advice you have given to thousands over the years.

On another note, is it really pretty much pointless to apply to a school thats top ten with stellar stats, ec's, and letters without much research? If so, how much is enough research? Because I support myself and it's hard to mix in a lot of research, work, and take 16+credits a semester (not to sound like im complaining). Not sure if I could get a publication by graduation

Most, but not all, students at most top schools have done some research. Can you do research for credit so that it counts toward your degree and is research, too?

Having a publication is rare, even among the group we choose to interview (an elite subset of all applicants we see).

Try to get at least 10 weeks (summer) of f/t research or 15 weeks (semester) of part time.

Hey Lizzy. Would it be ok to use research on second language learners, and the pros and cons of student feedback in an SLA composition course on med school apps? I'm a non-traditional coming from a liberal arts background. Also, this research was presented as a poster at a conference.

1) If a student intends to defer matriculating at a medical school for two years to pursue another activity, is it advantageous to apply in the summer before senior year and defer once accepted?
2) Given the above, is it a good idea to take the MCAT in September 2012 and then hope adcoms honor my request to defer? Or would I be better off taking it in January 2013?
3) Should an individual's senior honors thesis be somewhat related to medicine, or is the topic a non-factor? Numerous posters have said questions about their thesis have come up in interviews and I'd rather not raise too many red flags with my Victorian lit topic, haha.
4) Is there a good way to say how one's competitive swing dancing experience might apply to the field of medicine? What about one's student government track record?
5) ~60 hours of shadowing and ~300 hospital hours is pretty standard by app time, right? Do I absolutely need to get a letter from any of my supervisors in these experiences?
6) How important is "making an impact" at the hospital you volunteer at whilst a premed? Would I be wasting my time if I were to coordinate a hospital/community-wide event? Or should I just focus on my 'real' ECs at school?
7) What if our research internship is only 8 weeks long?

Originally Posted by LizzyM

Most, but not all, students at most top schools have done some research. Can you do research for credit so that it counts toward your degree and is research, too?

Having a publication is rare, even among the group we choose to interview (an elite subset of all applicants we see).

Try to get at least 10 weeks (summer) of f/t research or 15 weeks (semester) of part time.

Actually, I can do that next summer lol thanks Lizzy

Originally Posted by ReptarBar

what qualities do you look for in students when they are interviewing?

Personable & friendly. Natural (not a robot or actor)

Able to communicate clearly in English with good vocabulary and without extraneous filler (um, ya'know, like). Able to discuss complex information in an easily understood manner.

Interested in the world and particularly in people, interesting to talk with, interested in practicing medicine and can describe "why medicine" and answer questions about that choice and about experiences in clinical settings.

Positive, up-beat, enthusiastic about something.

Respectful of others and not condescending or haughty.

If you wanted to pinpoint something that most applicants just don't seem to "get," what would it be?

Do you ever encourage other adcom members to contribute to SDN a la Lizzy?

What range of opinions have you encountered from other adcom members about SDN?

Also, a million thanks for such an open thread and your past and continued time here. You and the other advisors here are truly godsends for a lot of people in this process.

Originally Posted by Socalpremedguy

Hey Lizzy. Would it be ok to use research on second language learners, and the pros and cons of student feedback in an SLA composition course on med school apps? I'm a non-traditional coming from a liberal arts background. Also, this research was presented as a poster at a conference.

That sounds interesting. Was it qualitative research or the more traditional "research" with a testable hypothesis? Either way, go for it.

How important is leadership experience in an application for a top tier school? Could a lack of leadership spoil an otherwise very competitive application?

Do med schools care alot about difficulty of course load? Is it ok if I take 12-13 units a quarter or will that be looked down upon? What about taking classes just for fun like Beer Brewing or Food Science?

How heavily weighted is a strong upward trend? I wonder because my cGPA for each year was 3.4, 3.5, 4.0, 4.0 and I ended with an overal cGPA of 3.7 (biochem major). I thought my trend would make me a more competitive applicant, but so far I've only received interview offers from the "lower tier" schools based on my LizzyM score. I'm already accepted somewhere this cycle, but I can't help but wonder if my lower GPA from my first 2 years severely hindered my interview chances.

What are some compelling situations for which you and your committee have granted deferrals? And are they, in general, hard to obtain? My situation is related to an entrepreneurial endeavor.

how do you handle misdemeanors if an applicant has them? and if they have gotten them expunged

Originally Posted by varsityblue

1) If a student intends to defer matriculating at a medical school for two years to pursue another activity, is it advantageous to apply in the summer before senior year and defer once accepted?

Never apply with the intention of deferring; it is dishonest to do so. Apply about 12-15 months before you wish to begin medical school.

Originally Posted by varsityblue

2) Given the above, is it a good idea to take the MCAT in September 2012 and then hope adcoms honor my request to defer? Or would I be better off taking it in January 2013?

Take the MCAT at least 2 mos before you plan to apply and not more than 2 years before you plan to apply.

Originally Posted by varsityblue

3) Should an individual's senior honors thesis be somewhat related to medicine, or is the topic a non-factor? Numerous posters have said questions about their thesis have come up in interviews and I'd rather not raise too many red flags with my Victorian lit topic, haha.

I've never even seen applicants' thesis topics. It would be a non-factor in my book.

Originally Posted by varsityblue

4) Is there a good way to say how one's competitive swing dancing experience might apply to the field of medicine? What about one's student government track record?

Why? Your experiences are what they are. Not everything must apply to the field of medicine. If you enjoy a hobby or activity, list it to show that you are multi-dimentional and not another med applicant bot.

Originally Posted by varsityblue

5) ~60 hours of shadowing and ~300 hospital hours is pretty standard by app time, right? Do I absolutely need to get a letter from any of my supervisors in these experiences?

My school is happy with a committee letter or two science letters & one non-science letter. Other schools may have different requirements.

There is no standard number of hours of shadowing and "hospital". Pretending that there is leads to being just another cookie on the assemby line. Be unique!

Originally Posted by varsityblue

6) How important is "making an impact" at the hospital you volunteer at whilst a premed? Would I be wasting my time if I were to coordinate a hospital/community-wide event? Or should I just focus on my 'real' ECs at school?

Making an impact is fine as long as it isn't while skydiving. Do what stirs your heart. Be sure to do at least one activity that puts you face-to-face with sick or injured people (patients).

Originally Posted by varsityblue

7) What if our research internship is only 8 weeks long?

Epic fail. /jk

Eight weeks full time is fine.

Originally Posted by sliceofbread136

How important is leadership experience in an application for a top tier school? Could a lack of leadership spoil an otherwise very competitive application?

Nice to have but not essential.

LizzyM....if one does well at his/her state med school....does name reputation affect his chances at residency...i know this has been asked multiple times but i want to hear an answer from the source.

Originally Posted by Lifeman

Do med schools care alot about difficulty of course load? Is it ok if I take 12-13 units a quarter or will that be looked down upon? What about taking classes just for fun like Beer Brewing or Food Science?

It isn't easy for us to spot a light term but I do look at load per year with the expectation that a student will be taking something equivalent to 30-32 credits per year.

Some fun classes are ok but don't stack them all up together.

Originally Posted by underdog427

LizzyM....if one does well at his/her state med school....does name reputation affect his chances at residency...i know this has been asked multiple times but i want to hear an answer from the source.

oops! This is pre-allo. Your question belongs in allo!

Originally Posted by jaygatsby

How heavily weighted is a strong upward trend? I wonder because my cGPA for each year was 3.4, 3.5, 4.0, 4.0 and I ended with an overal cGPA of 3.7 (biochem major). I thought my trend would make me a more competitive applicant, but so far I've only received interview offers from the "lower tier" schools based on my LizzyM score. I'm already accepted somewhere this cycle, but I can't help but wonder if my lower GPA from my first 2 years severely hindered my interview chances.

More likely your performance in the pre-reqs that you took in the first two years bit you in the butt.

Originally Posted by tenndoc

how do you handle misdemeanors if an applicant has them? and if they have gotten them expunged

I don't. There's a subcommittee for that...

From what I can tell:

Sex (crimes), Dealing Drugs, Violence, Theft....

Speeding, wreckless driving (pun intended), jaywalking, political protests... maybe not so bad.

Originally Posted by LizzyM

That sounds interesting. Was it qualitative research or the more traditional "research" with a testable hypothesis? Either way, go for it.

The research was more along the lines of a qualitative research, where we explored issues with SL learners in the composition classroom when utilizing student feedback. It was a great experience sitting in SL composition classrooms, collecting data, and presenting findings to my grad class. The research project was also presented at a conference on a poster board.

I don't have any science research, so I was thinking about leaving the research portion on apps blank, but a premed in my ochem class told me that I could list any type of research in the app. Coming from you, I'm relieved that I can put something in the research section, as I first believed that it is only meant for lab work in the sciences and math.

You are at a highly ranked medical school. I go to a small, fairly unique in its mission, liberal arts undergraduate that does not make the USNews national rankings. How much will this hurt me?

With you and your adcom, is there any way to mention "taboo" topics in one's PS -- being a victim of rape, being mentally ill, growing up with mentally ill parents, maybe growing up poor, etc -- and have it be a case of "I want to meet this person" (versus a red flag or something negative) or will it always count against the person?

Age: How does it factor in? Are there ages in which you regard an applicant with added scrutiny (too young, too old -- particularly, though. focus on too young), a point where it does not matter, etc. Will it hinder them getting interview or just if they show immaturity or (maybe?) on the other side non-commitment at the interview? For some context, I am thinking age 16, 17, 18 at the time of application (17, 18, 19 at the time of matriculation).

Originally Posted by trypanosomiasis

At what point do PSes and/or secondary essays actually get read?

before or after the interview depending on the school.

Can they really make up for a subpar academic performance (GPA or MCAT) in order to get an interview,

Maybe, maybe not.

or are the essays more used in post-interview decisions?

At my school, the interview comments drive the post-interview decisions but every school is different.

Originally Posted by vapor90

What are some compelling situations for which you and your committee have granted deferrals? And are they, in general, hard to obtain? My situation is related to an entrepreneurial endeavor.

I have no idea. Those decisions rest with the Dean alone at my school.

is performance in pre-reqs a big factor for admission? i got a 3.9+ in my pre-reqs, but my gpa went down after taking upper division courses.

Having not done well in half my prereqs (Cs, C+'s), would you recommend post-bacc at a state school to redo those C's (as my university will not allow redos unless D+ or lower) or post-bacc at state school and do solely upper div work to impress?

Thank you beforehand!

Originally Posted by Starlightembers

You are at a highly ranked medical school. I go to a small, fairly unique in its mission, liberal arts undergraduate that does not make the USNews national rankings. How much will this hurt me?

Depending on how well known the school is, or how much effort someone wants to make to find out about the school, it could hurt or it could be neutral.

With you and your adcom, is there any way to mention "taboo" topics in one's PS -- being a victim of rape, being mentally ill, growing up with mentally ill parents, maybe growing up poor, etc -- and have it be a case of "I want to meet this person" (versus a red flag or something negative) or will it always count against the person?

Some people manage to do it and do it well. It is like good writing, it is enjoyable on the surface but a good writer will look at how another good writer achieves that success. I've not made a study of how they acheive a good effect but I have seen it done.

Age: How does it factor in? Are there ages in which you regard an applicant with added scrutiny (too young, too old -- particularly, though. focus on too young), a point where it does not matter, etc. Will it hinder them getting interview or just if they show immaturity or (maybe?) on the other side non-commitment at the interview? For some context, I am thinking age 16, 17, 18 at the time of application (17, 18, 19 at the time of matriculation).

Age doesn't matter but it correlates with experience and maturity which does matter. At the other end of the spectrum, one thinks about flexibilty and energy.

Hi Lizzy,how do adcoms view an unfinished graduate degree in a discipline totally unrelated to medicine?

Originally Posted by ReptarBar

is performance in pre-reqs a big factor for admission? i got a 3.9+ in my pre-reqs, but my gpa went down after taking upper division courses.

Yes, the pre-reqs matter but so does an ability to do well in upper level courses.

Originally Posted by r1d1

Hi Lizzy,how do adcoms view an unfinished graduate degree in a discipline totally unrelated to medicine?

If you've dropped out, ok*. If you haven't dropped out, you'll be expected to finish before you matricuate so drop out before you apply.



_____
*On the other hand, you may undergo added scrutiny to be sure you aren't making another flying leap into a program you don't intend to complete.

Originally Posted by LizzyM

That sounds interesting. Was it qualitative research or the more traditional "research" with a testable hypothesis? Either way, go for it.

Is programming for a non-medical research project considered research?

Originally Posted by PikaPikaPika

Having not done well in half my prereqs (Cs, C+'s), would you recommend post-bacc at a state school to redo those C's (as my university will not allow redos unless D+ or lower) or post-bacc at state school and do solely upper div work to impress?

Thank you beforehand!

I have no opinion as my experience with records such as yours is extremely limited.

Originally Posted by r1d1

Is programming for a non-medical research project considered research?

It is research like mixing reagents in the lab and washing dishes is research. It is low level but gives you a taste and you might be disposed to going further than someone who has never done anything at all.

Programming skills are always nice.

Lizzy I think when we posted at the same moment up there mine got stuck behind yours and it slipped by you. Or you're just thinking.

Sort of a follow up question to another poster, but what about completing a SMP if you've already been accepted? I notified schools about it on my secondary but I did not list it or any of the courses on my AMCAS primary application. Thanks!

Originally Posted by LizzyM

More likely your performance in the pre-reqs that you took in the first two years bit you in the butt.

So when people say that good performance in upper-div science classes can help to override lower pre-req grades, we should take that with a grain of salt?

Thanks for doing this AMA, by the way. You seem to be on FIRE right now.

If you've offered someone with a low gpa and average stats an interview, what compelled you to do so? How did the interview go?

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

If you wanted to pinpoint something that most applicants just don't seem to "get," what would it be?

Be well prepared but be yourself. Do your thing, not the thing that everyone else is doing, at the place everyone is doing it at, for the length of time everyone is doing it. Be true to yourself and your sensibilities. Be enthusiastic about your activities or find activities you can be enthusiastic about. Be curious about people and the world around you.

Do you ever encourage other adcom members to contribute to SDN a la Lizzy?

No, I keep my work here a deep secret... I'm like Bruce Wayne.

What range of opinions have you encountered from other adcom members about SDN?

Some are chagrined that information about interview questions is so widely available and sad/angry that it leads to robotic, rehearsed answers. Some get upset by rumors or misinformation or mean, inaccurate comments on the school specific threads.

Originally Posted by robertch8

Sort of a follow up question to another poster, but what about completing a SMP if you've already been accepted? I notified schools about it on my secondary but I did not list it or any of the courses on my AMCAS primary application. Thanks!

Ask the school if your admission is contingent on finishing the program in which you are enrolled.