Cost of Attendance - WOW

[MuscleHead]

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So I just got my financial aid award letter. With room and board and all other expenses factored in...my cost of attendance is $51,800 for the year.

i know there are several threads related to this, but the school im attending is/was a medium priced school. the apta site reported tuition at 27k...which i thought was about normal. i'm living at home for the first year at least, so i can scratch the room and board.

but still....if i were to go by this, it would cost me $150k to go to pt school.

is it worth this much money?

 

[ItemN9ne]

I have heard that they award medical students a lot more than they "need" to keep them from having to work, but WOW... That is a tough pill to swallow! Good luck with future endeavors what ever you decide!

 

[ksiem]

Can you give us a break down of those costs? I know that room and board in a University are way over priced compared to living on your own but I wonder if they also figure in transportation, car insurance, health insurance, etc. into that figure. Seems crazy expensive, about as expensive as med school I would imagine. Better hope PTs salaries sky rocket with the new barriers to entry 🙂

 

[Future PT 12]

what school is this for?

that is a lot of money, but it is a good thing that you will be staying home to save some money.

Is it worth it? In my opinion it is. PT's generally start out around 50k depending on your state. Within 3-5 years you should be able to pay off those student loans.


you could look into a MPT program... they are 2 years and could be cheaper. The problem with that is, is everything is going towards the DPT direction by 2020

 

[MuscleHead]

Thomas Jefferson University:

Cost of Attendance Component Amount
Books & Supplies $1,740.00
Major Medical Insurance $3,563.00
Loan Fees (est) $103.00
Miscellaneous Expenses $1,125.00
Room & Board $13,248.00
Tuition & Fees $30,399.00
Transportation $1,629.00
Total: $51,807.00

 

[MuscleHead]

what school is this for?

that is a lot of money, but it is a good thing that you will be staying home to save some money.

Is it worth it? In my opinion it is. PT's generally start out around 50k depending on your state. Within 3-5 years you should be able to pay off those student loans.


you could look into a MPT program... they are 2 years and could be cheaper. The problem with that is, is everything is going towards the DPT direction by 2020

making 50k/year....you think its possible to pay off $150,000 in 3 years? by that math you will spend every cent you make on your loan repayments. impossible. even at 10 years, you would spend roughly $15k a year, which is over $1,000 per month. i would have basically no money left over to do anything.

sounds like this would just make the rest of my life a living hell...which is the exact opposite reason im going back to school....im trying to improve my quality of life. this is extremely discouraging and now im having huge doubts.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

I've come to peace with it...Northwestern says COA is $63,000 per year, or maybe it's $65,000...I got the full award in financial aid, but I'm not about to use it all.

Tuition alone is $34,063...I'm taking out just enough for that and then about $3000 extra just in case.

I would suggest you break down the numbers they allot for everything...when I did that they had rent as $1300/month....the place I'm getting is going to be about $650 after utilities/internet, so I'm saving half of what they said right there. They also factor in $500 or so per trimester for books, but I talked to first years and they said there are some books you really don't need - plus I'm living with a second year next year so I'll have access to a lot of free books. They also factored in student health insurance which is $200/month...as long as I can get health insurance outside of the school (which I keep getting denied - lame), it'll only be $50/month. They also factored in for a $3000 new computer (not necessary), like $75/week of "misc. expenses", $100-200/week for food, $50/week for transportation (which is weird because we have a city pass already factored into our tuition, so unless we're driving or taking cabs everywhere we shouldn't need any money on transportation)..


My point is...break down the non-tuition expenses into monthly/weekly/daily expenses, and then see what you actually need to take out. I decided that I don't want to be paying interest on things like rent/food etc...I don't want my rent that's $7,800 per year to be charged an extra 7.9% per year. I'm using money I've been saving to pay for things like that. If you're in a situation where you don't have to take out everything in loans, then I wouldn't suggest taking out the full amount. And if you are relying 100% on loans, see if you can reduce it by cutting expenses from places. They do overestimate it like others have said so you won't need to work.

And musclehead is right...there's no way you're paying off those loans in 3 years...not with the way interest capitalizes and compounds.

 

[lee9786]

I hear you bro. Why it costs 30k/year to train a PT is beyond me. It's clear that someone is there collecting big money off of the students. My guestimate is I will be in the 150k range as well if I don't get into the in-state school. I rationalize it will all be worth it if I travel for a couple of years and just focus on paying it down asap. To do the math though..

Say a PT works six days a week for some travel agency. One should be able to make 80k/year which is a rough guess and probably a conservative estimate.

Now consider taxes which is currently taking 25 percent of what you earn. http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

So it is 60k net income. Monthly net income is 5k/month. Now if half of this went to student loans, it would take 60 months or five years to pay off the loan not calculating in interest. Granted $2500/month is what there is to play with after taxes and student loans which depending on where you live can be okay or very poor.

Now consider that most likely in the future the middle class is going to see tax increases. So most likely the 25 percent figure is going to go up. Also figure in inflation, which I think is inevitable and probably the biggest issue of all. It might be good for existing loan balances, but the assumption would be reimbursement rates would be able keep up with it. If not the 75 dollar evaluation is worth a whole lot less than what it is now as costs of the essential items around us rise.

Who knows. I think there's good reason to be concerned. I guess the other option would be to trust the government to forgive the loans 20 years down the road and just pay the minimum amount determined by the IBR. The only problem with this philosophy is that the government just might not live up to its promise. I don't like the idea of depending on big government to take from my fellow citizens to pay off my debt so this isn't an option for me.

 

[ericdopt]

Wow! As I've said a lot on these threads...the cost of a PT education is nuts! You should not have to go into that kind of debt in order to work in this country. The vast majority of grads will not open their own clinics. It is crazy. I feel very sad for the future of the profession when people decide it is economic suicide to get a PT degree.

Also, for those who think they can pay off a 6 figure debt in 3-5 years. You are delusional. As has been pointed out, you have to take into account interest on those loans which starts to acrue as soon as you accept it. Also, don't forget TAXES!!! They will take a HUGE chunk out of your paycheck.

Also, PT salaries will not go up significantly. In fact, with the new healthcare reform, medicare going broke, more people out of work and less reimbursement from medicare/medicaid...healthcare salaries will go down.

Sorry to bum you out, but these are things your "advisors" won't point out.

 

[MuscleHead]

Wow! As I've said a lot on these threads...the cost of a PT education is nuts! You should not have to go into that kind of debt in order to work in this country. The vast majority of grads will not open their own clinics. It is crazy. I feel very sad for the future of the profession when people decide it is economic suicide to get a PT degree.

Also, for those who think they can pay off a 6 figure debt in 3-5 years. You are delusional. As has been pointed out, you have to take into account interest on those loans which starts to acrue as soon as you accept it. Also, don't forget TAXES!!! They will take a HUGE chunk out of your paycheck.

Also, PT salaries will not go up significantly. In fact, with the new healthcare reform, medicare going broke, more people out of work and less reimbursement from medicare/medicaid...healthcare salaries will go down.

Sorry to bum you out, but these are things your "advisors" won't point out.

i appreciate your honesty. are you a current pt? how long have you been practicing? what degree do you have (dpt/mpt/bspt)? do you own your own clinic and what field are you in?

 

[ericdopt]

i appreciate your honesty. are you a current pt? how long have you been practicing? what degree do you have (dpt/mpt/bspt)? do you own your own clinic and what field are you in?

Hey MuscleHead,

Yes, I am currently practicing, albeit part-time. I don't own my own clinic. I've been doing this 20 years and have a BS degree. I went to one of the top 3 PT schools in the nation and had little debt in the '80's. It's a very long story, but after realizing getting an MS in PT or even getting a tDPT was not worth it economically, I decided on medical school (hence, the DO). I still love the profession and would consider teaching in the future. I'd probably be blackballed though because I'm against mandatory DPT and all of the debt that is associated with getting a graduate degree. My solution...everybody should get an MPT ( I see the need for that at least), then from there people can choose to do a 1-2 year "residency" in sports medicine, rehab, acute care, geriatrics, peds or a combination of them. Then you are specialized. Kind of like medicine with how residencies are run. When you graduate medical school, you are considered a doctor, but I wouldn't send a dead cat to someone who hasn't done a residency...that's where you learn to be a real doctor. I feel the same way with PT. You know the "theory" of PT, but not the real world of how to treat, juggle multiple patients, paperwork, etc. I see a huge flaw in the DPT education. They are making you take classes you don't need (radiology? you can't legally read them anyway and to think you can is dangerous...that's why a radiology residency is 5 years long!)

Anyway, good luck.

 

[lee9786]

Eric do my numbers look realistic?

 

[sierra54]

I would guess that taxes would be close to 30% for FICA, SS and other gov't deductions combined. Also, don't forget about deductions for health insurance and retirement contributions. Plan to pay yourself first. The gov't and everyone else can get in line.

 

[ericdopt]

Eric do my numbers look realistic?

$80K out of school is high from what I am hearing. I could be wrong, but I know of no PT making this in my large metro area. Granted ,home health and/or traveling PT's may make this, but new grads aren't from what I can tell.

Can anyone give me some research and hard numbers on this?

As far as taxes...it may not be worth it to work 6 days or even have an additional source of income. If you are single, are not a home owner and have no deductions...then get your checkbook out. You are going to get killed. I wasn't even close to 6 figures, I am the only source of income in my family and I still owed $2000 this year! So much for soaking "the rich"...all politics aside of course.

Home health is good, if you enjoy being in your car...a lot, aren't concerned about going to questionably safe areas, don't mind working around your patients schedule...which could mean you won't start seeing patients until they wake up after 10am. You may be working til 8 at night and weekends. You will also get a lot of cancellations. That "6 figure" salary homehealth adds tout are true if you are killing yourself. In reality, don't believe it.

Traveling gigs are cool from what I hear, although I never did one. The one negative I hear frequently is you are placed in places where there is a lot of office politics and you will be looked upon as "that therapist" who is making "tons of money". I never experienced this, but it is what I've heard a lot.

 

[honker23]

I think the DPT cost/benefit ratio is out of line. But I think the members of the profession are looking to the future and hoping this will increase reimbursement, pay, and increase access to PTs, which would lower overall health care costs. It is not designed to make us radiologist or pharmacists, however, I feel eventually there will be a push to allow us to order imaging to rule out non-PT diagnoses in direct access settings. Every 40 yr old with shoulder impingement should not have to spend 350 dollars in physician office visits prior to seeing a PT. That is all we are trying to accomplish.

 

[mtm34]

Amen Honker! I agree completely. CNN money has PT ranked as the 7th best profession in America, I understand its scary to all of those entering school and cold feet is part of any commitment but this is a great field and a great time to enter it. Chiropractic is dying out and more and more people are being referred to PT- the dynamics of the profession may have to change with the times but that happens in every profession. With the introduction of the DPT there are more qualified and capable people entering the field than ever before, combo that with the depth of medical knowledge covered in PT school the sky is the limit for the future. I believe over time through direct access people with musculoskeletal pain will head directly to a PT instead of going through the rigorous and time consuming continuum of care. It is up to the new generation of practitioners to push the profession forward.

 

[MuscleHead]

Amen Honker! I agree completely. CNN money has PT ranked as the 7th best profession in America, I understand its scary to all of those entering school and cold feet is part of any commitment but this is a great field and a great time to enter it. Chiropractic is dying out and more and more people are being referred to PT- the dynamics of the profession may have to change with the times but that happens in every profession. With the introduction of the DPT there are more qualified and capable people entering the field than ever before, combo that with the depth of medical knowledge covered in PT school the sky is the limit for the future. I believe over time through direct access people with musculoskeletal pain will head directly to a PT instead of going through the rigorous and time consuming continuum of care. It is up to the new generation of practitioners to push the profession forward.

well said!

 

[MJHUSKERS]

Thomas Jefferson University:

Cost of Attendance Component Amount
Books & Supplies $1,740.00
Major Medical Insurance $3,563.00
Loan Fees (est) $103.00
Miscellaneous Expenses $1,125.00
Room & Board $13,248.00
Tuition & Fees $30,399.00
Transportation $1,629.00
Total: $51,807.00

Here's a look at what my school is going to cost me this next year...

Books and Supplies$1,270.00
Fees$210.00
Personal Expenses$1,930.00
Room and Board$8,310.00
Tuition and Fees$22,245.00
Transportation$370.00
Total:$34,335.00

 

[Kyra4dpt]

Is it worth it? In my opinion it is. PT's generally start out around 50k depending on your state. Within 3-5 years you should be able to pay off those student loans.

What?! Uh...NO! The total debt is $150K if you have to take out the full amount for all three years. If you start out making 50K a year...immediately take out 1/3 of this pay for taxes. 😀 Then you have $500-1000+ per month for rent (depending upon where you live), transportation costs (gas, car insurance, public transport), electric bill, phone bill, then you have to eat! I assume you might want TV and internet too? Credit card debt? Oh, an those 150K in loans are going to skyrocket! When you are in school, the bulk of your loans are acruing about 8.6% interest!!! 😱 By the time you are done paying off those loans, expect to be paying around $250K.

So...paying it off in 3-5 years? Not unless you win the lottery. Expect it to take over 10 years, possibly 20 or longer if you plan on family, house, kids...

 

[Kyra4dpt]

sounds like this would just make the rest of my life a living hell...which is the exact opposite reason im going back to school....im trying to improve my quality of life. this is extremely discouraging and now im having huge doubts.

In a similar boat, MuscleHead. I have my freak out moments too about the COA. I wasn't lucky enough to get into an inexpensive school, alas... I guess someone has to go to the mid-range and upper-range schools... The COA is a bit of a shocker when I first saw it: it put a different reality to it than just looking at the tuition alone... I went into this thinking I could at least work part-time like I did during my first grad degree, only to be told not to my first year. My suggestion, live at home as long as you can to keep your costs down. As awful as it may sound to move back home, lol, it WILL be worth it in the end when you graduate with less debt! Live frugally.

But as others stated clearly...it is a wonderful field and it will be rewarding. You are young and there are options for paying back your federal loans based on your income. You'll just need to work your butt off after school, apply for all the scholarships you can while in school and live frugally for a while... At least that is my mantra... If you're willing to rough it for a while, then by all means, go for it if this is what you want! 🙂 Good luck! Do you start this summer or fall?

 

[ericdopt]

In a similar boat, MuscleHead. I have my freak out moments too about the COA. I wasn't lucky enough to get into an inexpensive school, alas... I guess someone has to go to the mid-range and upper-range schools... The COA is a bit of a shocker when I first saw it: it put a different reality to it than just looking at the tuition alone... I went into this thinking I could at least work part-time like I did during my first grad degree, only to be told not to my first year. My suggestion, live at home as long as you can to keep your costs down. As awful as it may sound to move back home, lol, it WILL be worth it in the end when you graduate with less debt! Live frugally.

But as others stated clearly...it is a wonderful field and it will be rewarding. You are young and there are options for paying back your federal loans based on your income. You'll just need to work your butt off after school, apply for all the scholarships you can while in school and live frugally for a while... At least that is my mantra... If you're willing to rough it for a while, then by all means, go for it if this is what you want! 🙂 Good luck! Do you start this summer or fall?

Good post and insight Kyra. Also, is the $150K people quote just include the cost of PT school, or does it also include undergrad as well? If not, then yowsers! That is some debt.

 

[ericdopt]

Amen Honker! I agree completely. CNN money has PT ranked as the 7th best profession in America, I understand its scary to all of those entering school and cold feet is part of any commitment but this is a great field and a great time to enter it. Chiropractic is dying out and more and more people are being referred to PT- the dynamics of the profession may have to change with the times but that happens in every profession. With the introduction of the DPT there are more qualified and capable people entering the field than ever before, combo that with the depth of medical knowledge covered in PT school the sky is the limit for the future. I believe over time through direct access people with musculoskeletal pain will head directly to a PT instead of going through the rigorous and time consuming continuum of care. It is up to the new generation of practitioners to push the profession forward.

The "7th best profession" according to what standard? Is that like the US News and world reports top schools list? Those lists are subjective at best. PT has always been a "top profession". Yes, you will always have a job and make decent money too, just not the kind of money you think you will. Also, there are already way too many imaging modalities ordered. Don't get me started on that. What about differential diagnosis? You cannot learn differential in 1 semester or even 1 year. Docs learn this from doing a residency which is hands on learning. How do you know it is musculoskeletal? Give me a differential for a 32 yo woman who lifted a TV yesterday, is mildly tender to the touch in her low back. Think it is MSK related? There are things you don't want to miss. If you miss the big things, you are liable. The main reason for lawsuits is delay in treatment.

 

[mtm34]

Not the money I think I will? Eric how much money do I think I will make- I'd like to know... Way to take a crap on a completely harmless optimistic post. I hope that made you feel better about yourself.

 

[ericdopt]

Not the money I think I will? Eric how much money do I think I will make- I'd like to know... Way to take a crap on a completely harmless optimistic post. I hope that made you feel better about yourself.

Sorry, I chose the wrong words. I didn't mean it like that. Have a good weekend.

 

[rcheeley]

I posted this in another forum:

I graduated December 2007 from USA, started working February 2008 at $59k as well as Loan Reimbursement. I worked my ass off, and by December 2008 was promoted to Clinic Director of one of the clinics for the company. I also work 1-3 days/month at a local hospital doing PRN work making $47/hr and that gets me about an extra 8-12k per year. I then negotiated a raise based on getting my MTC. So last year I earned just under $100k in just my 2nd full year as a PT, and I plan on making over $100k this year.

I have approximately $110k in loans from PT school, and then another $20k from my undergraduate work. I pay approximately $1k/month in student loans, as well as a $1500/month mortgage, and $500/month car payment. I also put in about $500/month towards my 401(k). I do all this while my wife makes about $12-15k/year (grocery bill, gas, etc), and I live comfortably.

I feel as if I do well for myself, but I have worked hard to get where I'm at. I understand that I do have a lot of debt, but I'm so satisfied w/ my profession choice, I love working (doesn't feel like work) and don't mind working 50 hours/week to make sure I have the income I want.

If you're worried about what you're going to make, then maybe you don't understand a couple of things: 1) how satisfying this profession is, and 2) you can make as much as you really want to make as the need for PTs is very large.

A traveling PT (yes you can stay in a particular area, if there is need) can make $90k+ right out of school. Do this for a few years and you should be able to really make a dent in your student loans.

Please feel free to message me if you have specific questions.

Ryan, DPT, MTC

 

[MinnDasota]

I posted this in another forum:

I graduated December 2007 from USA, started working February 2008 at $59k as well as Loan Reimbursement. I worked my ass off, and by December 2008 was promoted to Clinic Director of one of the clinics for the company. I also work 1-3 days/month at a local hospital doing PRN work making $47/hr and that gets me about an extra 8-12k per year. I then negotiated a raise based on getting my MTC. So last year I earned just under $100k in just my 2nd full year as a PT, and I plan on making over $100k this year.

I have approximately $110k in loans from PT school, and then another $20k from my undergraduate work. I pay approximately $1k/month in student loans, as well as a $1500/month mortgage, and $500/month car payment. I also put in about $500/month towards my 401(k). I do all this while my wife makes about $12-15k/year (grocery bill, gas, etc), and I live comfortably.

I feel as if I do well for myself, but I have worked hard to get where I'm at. I understand that I do have a lot of debt, but I'm so satisfied w/ my profession choice, I love working (doesn't feel like work) and don't mind working 50 hours/week to make sure I have the income I want.

If you're worried about what you're going to make, then maybe you don't understand a couple of things: 1) how satisfying this profession is, and 2) you can make as much as you really want to make as the need for PTs is very large.

A traveling PT (yes you can stay in a particular area, if there is need) can make $90k+ right out of school. Do this for a few years and you should be able to really make a dent in your student loans.

Please feel free to message me if you have specific questions.

Ryan, DPT, MTC

Thanks for your post Ryan. I've been trying to say this on this forum since I joined. If I would've kept my per diem job with a hospital, I would've made up to 85-90K last year. Unfortunately I wanted to focus on my main job so I quit the hospital. A few of my friends are making over 100K while doing Home Health PT on the side and putting in overtime. (One of them is even taking a 4 month break and traveling the world...while watching 13 matches at the World Cup)!! The opportunity is there. In the end, you make what you're willing to put in. Of course, not everyone can work 2+ jobs.

 

[Kyra4dpt]

Good post and insight Kyra. Also, is the $150K people quote just include the cost of PT school, or does it also include undergrad as well? If not, then yowsers! That is some debt.

Hey Eric. the $150K-ish figure is just for the DPT (at least I'm quite sure that's what most of us mean on this post)...it's the full cost of attendance for three years (tuition, room & board, texts, etc)... 😱

 

[MSU09]

Im a 1st year (almost 2nd year now) DPT student at Missouri State University and I expect to come out with only about $60k in debt when I graduate. The cost of tution for the 3 yrs is around $35k, but I have to take out more for rent and other bills.

Basically I just wanted to point out that not all DPT programs COA are $150k...and I feel like I have gotten a great education (so far) at a lower priced, maybe lesser known program.