Non-Science LOR?

[MrNeuro]

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I know that most schools require a non-science LOR I'm a bit confused as to what schools refer to as non-science LOR as after doing some digging here i found that some people use the physicians they shadow as a non-science LOR

i know the obvious non-science LOR (i.e. soup kitchen manager you worked for, humanities proferssor)

 

[QofQuimica]

I know that most schools require a non-science LOR I'm a bit confused as to what schools refer to as non-science LOR as after doing some digging here i found that some people use the physicians they shadow as a non-science LOR

i know the obvious non-science LOR (i.e. soup kitchen manager you worked for, humanities proferssor)

Usually what med schools are looking for is a LOR from a non-science professor. At most schools, you will have some distribution requirements (i.e., non-major courses), such that even if you're a science major, you should have taken some non-science classes (humanities, social sciences, business, etc.). I would start by asking one of those profs for a LOR. That should meet the requirement for all medical schools that are asking for a non-science letter.

Some people may have difficulties with meeting this requirement. Particularly if you are applying as a nontrad who has been out of college for a long time, as I was, it may not be possible to get a non-science letter from a prof. If you want to use a non-professor letter, it is best to get permission from the med schools first. In my case, I used an employer letter, and all of the schools I asked gave me permission to do this.

 

[MrNeuro]

Usually what med schools are looking for is a LOR from a non-science professor. At most schools, you will have some distribution requirements (i.e., non-major courses), such that even if you're a science major, you should have taken some non-science classes (humanities, social sciences, business, etc.). I would start by asking one of those profs for a LOR. That should meet the requirement for all medical schools that are asking for a non-science letter.

Some people may have difficulties with meeting this requirement. Particularly if you are applying as a nontrad who has been out of college for a long time, as I was, it may not be possible to get a non-science letter from a prof. If you want to use a non-professor letter, it is best to get permission from the med schools first. In my case, I used an employer letter, and all of the schools I asked gave me permission to do this.

thanks for the reply im not a non-trad unfortunately though all the non-science classes i took were 300+ classes and i only developed strong relationships with my TAs that i doubt even remember me even though i consistently attended and actively interacted during office hours.

The only two non-science classes i could potentially get decent letters of rec from are from an art history and chicano latino studies TA.....advice?

and i apologize if my grammars a bit off ive been up for >24 hrs

 

[SBR249]

thanks for the reply im not a non-trad unfortunately though all the non-science classes i took were 300+ classes and i only developed strong relationships with my TAs that i doubt even remember me even though i consistently attended and actively interacted during office hours.

The only two non-science classes i could potentially get decent letters of rec from are from an art history and chicano latino studies TA.....advice?

and i apologize if my grammars a bit off ive been up for >24 hrs

For MD/PhD program, I don't think non-science LORs are hugely important unless you are applying for a social science PhD or something like that. Even if it's a 300-person lecture, if you did well and talked with the professor even a few times, it may be OK to ask for a letter of recommendation. Also, if you are on good terms with the TA, ask your professor if he/she would be willing to co-sign a letter written by your TA. And if your TA is of the lazy type, sometimes they'll even ask you to write your own letter before they (and then the professor) corrects it and then sign it.

 

[staphkills]

(Sorry for bumping up an old post, I just have a similar question that I can't find the answer to)

I come from a large public university where some of our lower division humanities courses are taught by graduate students. Would it be ok for me to get a letter of rec from the instructor of such course?

 

[K31]

I come from a large public university where some of our lower division humanities courses are taught by graduate students. Would it be ok for me to get a letter of rec from the instructor of such course?

It would be better if it were from a faculty member rather than a graduate student teaching a course, although as is mentioned above non-science LORs really don't matter for MD/PhD admissions.

To be honest, science LORs really don't matter that much either if it isn't someone who can speak to your research qualifications.

 

[pfaction]

I'll add myself in here. I'm in a similar position, I'm in school and developed a decent relationship with a philo professor....three years ago, and he's gone! So now I'm at a loss. I have a ton of other LOR's though, including work and hospital, my PI, clinical pharmacists, my dean, etc.

Now, does this letter need to be SEPARATE or can it be attached with the committee letter?

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

How common is this requirement? A lot of schools I've seen seem to strongly prefer letters from research mentors and PIs with no mention given to non-science letters, although I have seen a couple that wanted non-science letters.

This puts me in a really bad spot if a lot of schools want such a letter. I have four research LORs I can definitely count on, but since I made it a priority to complete my GERs as quickly as possible the last time I took a non-science course was over four years ago (been out of college for a year, and will be two years by the time I apply). Obviously none of my professors are going to remember me; hell, I don't even remember them.

 

[StilgarMD]

Additional Question: are 2 LoRs from big name Philosophy professors good to get? so far i have 2 science professors, 1 PI, 2 Phil professors. i have a year to get more. let me know.

 

[K31]

Additional Question: are 2 LoRs from big name Philosophy professors good to get? so far i have 2 science professors, 1 PI, 2 Phil professors. i have a year to get more. let me know.

Nobody will care, "big name" or not (the chance of someone interviewing you for MD/PhD recognizing a philosophy professor by name is exceedingly slim). They are just two more non-PI letters to scroll past in your packet.

Concentrate on getting another research letter, even if it is just a summer experience.

 

[StilgarMD]

x_x damn... seriously? erg... how do i get another PI when im still building up research in my current lab and i only have a year left? do i have to postpone applying further?

 

[K31]

I don't know that I would postpone applying; just be aware that a single PI letter is fewer than most applicants have.

 

[StilgarMD]

i just don't get how people are expected to have multiple letters with in depth experience with different PIs. how are traditional students suppose to compete if they didn't start research during freshmen year... blah.

 

[szetok]

I agree. Do you guys think a letter from a research coordinator would suffice? I worked with her for roughly 1.5 years and I think she knows me pretty well. Would she count as a Non-Science letter?

 

[pfaction]

I have four PI letters and some schools have a max of 4 letters. ???

 

[StilgarMD]

Jesus Christ P, are you a traditional student? How did you get into so many labs?

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

I have four PI letters and some schools have a max of 4 letters. ???

Yeah, I was wondering why you had so many LORs when few schools allow more than 6 LOR submissions. It's been my understanding though that whenever you list a research experience MD/PhD programs want to see a LOR from the PI for that experience, so in that case you don't really have any choice but to use up all your LOR slots for research LORs. You could always contact the schools though to explain your situation and see if they want you to submit more.

That said, although I'm not very well informed of what MD/PhD programs want, if they're anything like PhD programs they really only care about your research. Letters from professors whose classes you took are nice, but I doubt they're nearly as impressive, relevant, or informative to MD/PhD adcoms as PI LORs.

 

[staphkills]

So today I made a couple of phone calls to some MSTP programs and apparently my question about the non-science LOR warranted forwarding the calls to the director of admissions.

Anyways, for the schools that do care about the non-science LOR, they don't mind if the instructor is a graduate student as long as he/she is the instructor for the course.

However, some schools which does not mention anything about a non-science LOR on their website say that the non-science letter wouldn't even matter: they care more about the LORs from PIs

 

[pfaction]

Yeah, I was wondering why you had so many LORs when few schools allow more than 6 LOR submissions. It's been my understanding though that whenever you list a research experience MD/PhD programs want to see a LOR from the PI for that experience, so in that case you don't really have any choice but to use up all your LOR slots for research LORs. You could always contact the schools though to explain your situation and see if they want you to submit more.

That said, although I'm not very well informed of what MD/PhD programs want, if they're anything like PhD programs they really only care about your research. Letters from professors whose classes you took are nice, but I doubt they're nearly as impressive, relevant, or informative to MD/PhD adcoms as PI LORs.

I got my Dean's LOR (moderately strong to strong), and whatever others I listed. Most schools have a limit of 4-5 individual letters: packets are separate. So between committee (4 in itself) and 4 individual PI, I'm set! Verified with two schools and assumed the rest were the same.

Jesus Christ P, are you a traditional student? How did you get into so many labs?

No, I am a Pharmacy student. I got into "so many" labs and have "so many" LOR's because I have a strong work ethic and learned to balance my time out. Also helps that one of my labs is extremely time based: one week we would do nothing, second week it was like tornado preparations, then sometimes a month of nothing, and then BAM.

It also helps that I actually "got into" 7 labs, but due to one professor passing away and now my rotations, I couldn't do the med chem, pharm or list the onco lab.

 

[BananaPancake12]

So today I made a couple of phone calls to some MSTP programs and apparently my question about the non-science LOR warranted forwarding the calls to the director of admissions.

Anyways, for the schools that do care about the non-science LOR, they don't mind if the instructor is a graduate student as long as he/she is the instructor for the course.

However, some schools which does not mention anything about a non-science LOR on their website say that the non-science letter wouldn't even matter: they care more about the LORs from PIs

I've been reading sdn for a while now and haven't posted very much, but now i'm going through the application process and had the exact same question. Would you mind telling which MSTP schools you found that 'cared' about the non-science letter?

 

[staphkills]

I've been reading sdn for a while now and haven't posted very much, but now i'm going through the application process and had the exact same question. Would you mind telling which MSTP schools you found that 'cared' about the non-science letter?

Sure, I called a bunch of program offices and the only MSTP program that cared about the non-science LOR is Harvard. Basically, it seems like if the MSTP program's website does not mention anything about an non-science LOR, they simply don't care.

Every program I called emphasized that they only care about the research letters, so just make sure you get those.

 

[BananaPancake12]

Sure, I called a bunch of program offices and the only MSTP program that cared about the non-science LOR is Harvard. Basically, it seems like if the MSTP program's website does not mention anything about an non-science LOR, they simply don't care.

Every program I called emphasized that they only care about the research letters, so just make sure you get those.

Appreciate the info!

I'll have my other lors from all my PIs as well as the 2 science profs, I'm just a little nervous about my non-science prof submitting his on time -- apparently he's doing field research abroad starting at the end of june (cutting it close) and just wanted to make sure lol Thanks!