(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[DermViser]

I actually meant Derm and Internal Medicine as separate matches rather than combined programs. I'm personally not a fan of combined residency programs in any specialty in general (I think it dilutes the training and ultimately doesn't add too much to your career trajectory).

I feel like I've gotten various opinions about away rotations. Most of the other medical students at my institution advise against it as they feel its more an opportunity to look bad than good. Most of the residents I've talked to say they all did away rotations and felt they were beneficial.

I think away rotations are for those who don't have a dermatology program, for a "courtesy" interview, and in which you would really want to match there if given the opportunity. Since you go to a Top 5 school w/o AOA (it's pretty obvious which school this is) AND you've taken off time to do derm research you shouldn't have a problem.

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[Dral]

Always are good for a few things:

1. Don't have home program.
2. Try to impress a place where you might not have gotten an interview otherwise.
3. Break into a new geographic area.
4. Learn more Derm!

The 'chance to look bad more than good on an away rotation' argument just comes off as a lazy excuse to me. Think about it, if nothing else, do it for reason 2 above. If you go to med school in Florida, do an away in Chicago or something...or Oregon...wherever. If you look a little bad, no big loss...not as likely you would have gotten an interview at the place to begin with.

I did an away, got an interview there. I'm not a resident at that program, but without going into detail, I think it really helped me get my spot.

Anyway, getting OT.

 

[sustentaculum]

I don't know any candidates that apply to only one derm fellowship, unless they had some type of connection (previous research with the faculty member).

Sorry, what I meant was how many applicants do these fellowship spots get?

 

[DermViser]

Sorry, what I meant was how many applicants do these fellowship spots get?

I think it depends on how well known the clinical research fellowship is. It's iffy, as there will be many people who have no real chance of matching applying for fellowships, along with those who could match if they do well during their fellowship, along with those who were superstars who by a fluke didn't match. You'll never know unless you apply. They'll probably start collecting CVs, transcripts, LORs (essentially your ERAS application) now and then call you if they want to interview you.

 

[caltigers]

How much will it hurt my chances if I have little to no research?

 

[asmallchild]

How much will it hurt my chances if I have little to no research?

Step 1: 260's
Preclinical: All honors
Clinical: All honors so far
Several nice awards/volunteer experiences
Top 20 school
Advanced Degree
A little summer research experience in med school (not derm related), a few publications that aren't medically related (from grad school)

I'm going to try to get some derm research this summer, but I just don't know where to find the time and can't fathom how it could yield a publication in time for ERAS.

Should I be applying very broadly (60+? 80+?)? I don't really have any geographic restrictions, although I'm in the South right now.

I grew up/did my undergrad in California. Will it look bad if I do my only away there? I'm very interested in some of the programs there but wouldn't be heartbroken if I didn't match there. I just don't want to pigeonhole myself.

It's not optimal to have little to no research but you should be fine if you're aggressive about pursuing derm research in between your 3rd and 4th year (some places will even offer a research rotation as a 4th year)

No matter how great your application profile is, I always recommend applying to as many places as you can afford

 

[jmw38]

you can do research. there's time. case reports take like a weekend. better things take a little longer. i think everyone should apply broadly. i applied to every single program. research is really one of the only things that sets you apart on the interview trail, so i would really try to get it. your step will pass the cutoffs, there's always AOA cutoff too and how that works varies by school. as far as i'm concerned, you don't want to take any part of the process for granted. you definitely don't want to not match or do it again. get the research, you have time.

 

[lesterfreamon]

Does doing a research month on top of 3 derm months (1 home, 2 aways) look bad on an application?

Obviously if I could get some pubs in, that would look great, but could it hurt?

 

[asmallchild]

Does doing a research month on top of 3 derm months (1 home, 2 aways) look bad on an application?

Obviously if I could get some pubs in, that would look great, but could it hurt?

It would not hurt your chances

 

[exeunt]

.

 

[asmallchild]

hey guys, i'm a rising ms4 wondering what my chances are for derm and what tier of program i should be aiming for..

step 1: 248
step 2: 265
top 15 CA med school, originally from CA, attended college on the east coast
grades: my school is total p/f w/o ranking, although we have a weird third year system for unofficial honors, which is the main weakness of my application imo. i consistently had good evals, but just could not figure out how to ace shelf to my own detriment. few clinical honors, unlikely to get aoa.
i have shadowed/done derm research since MS1, and i'm currently doing a year off on the east coast at a big program getting a MPH as well as doing clinical research.
pubs: 7 currently accepted (all derm, 1 basic science, the rest are clinical and mostly first author), hoping to get 8-9 more by the end of this year. most are in JAAD, possibly a big one in JCO. many abstracts, poster presentations, oral presentation at SID.
anticipating solid LORs.
i would love to stay in CA but am willing to go wherever necessary. any thoughts/input is appreciated!

You should be fine in terms of overall chances, I would not be so reckless as to aim for a "tier". Apply broadly, apply to any and all programs in which you can truly see yourself at for 3 years.

 

[LoveMed916]

I'm a rising 4th year and became interested in dermatology late in the game. I'm wondering if I should take a year off to do research between 3rd and 4th year or not.

Mid tier med school without a home derm program
PreClinical grades: all pass (H/P/F)
Not AOA
Step 1: 254
Clinical grades this far: Medicine: HP, Surgery HP, Primary Care H, Psychiatry H (H/HP/P/F)
Research: 3 experiences; 6 posters (3 non derm, 3 derm-2 I'm second author; working on a paper right now hopefully to be submitted soon)

I feel my weakest point is my preclinical grades but I know there is nothing I can do about it now. Is taking a year off really going to increase my chances? Or any other advice?

Thanks so much

 

[Dral]

I'm a rising 4th year and became interested in dermatology late in the game. I'm wondering if I should take a year off to do research between 3rd and 4th year or not.

Mid tier med school without a home derm program
PreClinical grades: all pass (H/P/F)
Not AOA
Step 1: 254
Clinical grades this far: Medicine: HP, Surgery HP, Primary Care H, Psychiatry H (H/HP/P/F)
Research: 3 experiences; 6 posters (3 non derm, 3 derm-2 I'm second author; working on a paper right now hopefully to be submitted soon)

I feel my weakest point is my preclinical grades but I know there is nothing I can do about it now. Is taking a year off really going to increase my chances? Or any other advice?

Thanks so much

Preclinical is not a problem. My school was P/F only, and I got over 15 invites. Lack of AOA is one thing, but not that big of a deal. I wish you would have honored med and surg. Those are the two important ones (other than Derm, of course).

I'd say +/- on taking a year. If you have an interesting opportunity that you think will be lucrative, go for it. However, if you do aways and can get strong letters, you probably have a fairly good shot without taking the gap year.

 

[DermViser]

Preclinical is not a problem. My school was P/F only, and I got over 15 invites. Lack of AOA is one thing, but not that big of a deal. I wish you would have honored med and surg. Those are the two important ones (other than Derm, of course).

I'd say +/- on taking a year. If you have an interesting opportunity that you think will be lucrative, go for it. However, if you do aways and can get strong letters, you probably have a fairly good shot without taking the gap year.

But in your first 2 years, with true P/F grading there is no contribution of those years to rank and AOA (and likely your school is high tier as most of those are P/F in the first 2 years). LoveMed916's first 2 years are graded H/P/F, in which it contributes to his rank and his school is mid-tier (which varies a lot) with no home derm program. Not arguing, just noting the stark differences in situation.

 

[Dral]

My school still recorded grades and ranked us. Which I find kinda funny. And we had to be in the top quartile to even be considered for AOA (I think I was in second quartile).

I missed the no home Derm program. That does complicate things. Doing an away rotation at a different program to create a surrogate home program may be something to consider.

 

[dermal]

Matched preliminary year and am planning on reapplying for dermatology. Would appreciate any advice.

 

[DermViser]

Hard to give you advice when we don't know your record. Give us a better idea.

I'll ask you the same questions, that I would ask if you were an MS-4 applying:

• Tier of your medical school?
• Preclinical grades?
• Clinical Grades?
• AOA?
• Rank in your medical school class?
• Step scores?
• Research? What type (basic science vs. clinical)? Where they posters, abstracts, or publications?
• LORs from academic dermatologists?

Hopefully, you're working to complete any derm research projects that you started with your school as I'm assuming you have a home dermatology program.

Where are you doing your internship (community vs. academic)? Is it a prelim or transitional? Does the institution have an associated dermatology residency program?

 

[dermal]

Hard to give you advice when we don't know your record. Give us a better idea.

I'll ask you the same questions, that I would ask if you were an MS-4 applying:

• Tier of your medical school?
• Preclinical grades?
• Clinical Grades?
• AOA?
• Rank in your medical school class?
• Step scores?
• Research? What type (basic science vs. clinical)? Where they posters, abstracts, or publications?
• LORs from academic dermatologists?

Hopefully, you're working to complete any derm research projects that you started with your school as I'm assuming you have a home dermatology program.

Where are you doing your internship (community vs. academic)? Is it a prelim or transitional? Does the institution have an associated dermatology residency program?

Mid tier school
Preclinical is pass/fail systems
Honors on Derm Electives and Externship.
Honors on Medicine Core and two electives
Not AOA
School does not rank
218 and 248
Clinical Research Preceptorship and two Clinical Derm Research Projects, Honored Derm Research Elective
5 case reports of which 4 are Derm all first author, One Derm literature Review second author
6 posters all derm
4 LORs from academic dermatologists
PY at academic, does have derm program

 

[DermViser]

Mid tier school
Preclinical is pass/fail systems
Honors on Derm Electives and Externship.
Honors on Medicine Core and two electives
Not AOA
School does not rank
218 and 248
Clinical Research Preceptorship and two Clinical Derm Research Projects, Honored Derm Research Elective
5 case reports of which 4 are Derm all first author, One Derm literature Review second author
6 posters all derm
4 LORs from academic dermatologists
PY at academic, does have derm program

All schools rank. They tell where you are in your class with: exact rank, the segment of the class you fall in (quartiles for example), or specific "code word" adjective that tells where in the class you fall. Based on your low Step 1 (which serves as an initial filter), Honors in only 1 core rotation, I would try to schedule a derm rotation early in your intern year and aim to do a research fellowship after completing your intern year and then reapply. IMHO, I wouldn't reapply during your intern year.

 

[asmallchild]

Mid tier school
Preclinical is pass/fail systems
Honors on Derm Electives and Externship.
Honors on Medicine Core and two electives
Not AOA
School does not rank
218 and 248
Clinical Research Preceptorship and two Clinical Derm Research Projects, Honored Derm Research Elective
5 case reports of which 4 are Derm all first author, One Derm literature Review second author
6 posters all derm
4 LORs from academic dermatologists
PY at academic, does have derm program

I agree with DermViser, I think there are enough holes in your application package to warrant taking another year off to do research after your PGY-1 year. Reapplying as an intern and without really adding anything to a profile that lacks AOA status and has a below average Step 1 isn't likely to be fruitful.

 

[kwyjibo]

Another reapplicant

-top 25 med school
-preclinical: all honors
-clinical:
-honors: peds, fam, ob, psych,
-high pass: med, surg
-pass: neuro
-1st quartile, not AOA (in retrospect, AOA is very important in getting invites, I think without a PhD or a research fellowship the only way to make up for not having AOA is to do a ton of away rotations, which I unfortunately did not do)
-steps 260+ on both
-have LoRs from academic dermatologists (3 from junior faculty), chair's letter this time around (didn't have one last time) and hopefully one from the away rotation below.
-1 third author study, 2 first author case reports, 2 textbook chapters (1st and 2nd author), 1 2nd author poster
-some volunteer work
-prelim medicine at a community hospital without a derm program.
-have an away rotation setup with plans to do another away during intern year

My department recommended applying during pgy1 but to also look at research fellowships, which I'll need for the gap year anyway. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[asmallchild]

Another reapplicant

-top 25 med school
-preclinical: all honors
-clinical:
-honors: peds, fam, ob, psych,
-high pass: med, surg
-pass: neuro
-1st quartile, not AOA (in retrospect, AOA is very important in getting invites, I think without a PhD or a research fellowship the only way to make up for not having AOA is to do a ton of away rotations, which I unfortunately did not do)
-steps 260+ on both
-have LoRs from academic dermatologists (3 from junior faculty), chair's letter this time around (didn't have one last time) and hopefully one from the away rotation below.
-1 third author study, 2 first author case reports, 2 textbook chapters (1st and 2nd author), 1 2nd author poster
-some volunteer work
-prelim medicine at a community hospital without a derm program.
-have an away rotation setup with plans to do another away during intern year

My department recommended applying during pgy1 but to also look at research fellowships, which I'll need for the gap year anyway. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

I would agree with your department. Short of any glaring personality flaws, your application package looks pretty strong (I agree AOA is a very important, if somewhat overrated, factor) and you may just be one of those unfortunate applicants who slipped through the cracks

I think you would have a reasonable shot of applying as a PGY1 and to use the research fellowship as a backup plan. There are probably better ways to use the gap year but if it's a paid research fellowship, that wouldn't hurt either.

 

[kwyjibo]

I would agree with your department. Short of any glaring personality flaws, your application package looks pretty strong (I agree AOA is a very important, if somewhat overrated, factor) and you may just be one of those unfortunate applicants who slipped through the cracks

I think you would have a reasonable shot of applying as a PGY1 and to use the research fellowship as a backup plan. There are probably better ways to use the gap year but if it's a paid research fellowship, that wouldn't hurt either.

Thanks for the reply! In the meantime, aside from away rotations and looking into fellowships, what else should I be doing between now and applying? Work on more pubs?

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the reply! In the meantime, aside from away rotations and looking into fellowships, what else should I be doing between now and applying? Work on more pubs?

More publications never hurt. It may be worthwhile to ask around and see why you didn't match the first time around (I know this is never a fun thing to hear)

Was it simply bad luck? Something you could improve during interviews?

 

[jinac1224]

deleted

 

[nwonie]

Hi, I'm currently at the end of taking a research year after MS3, and I'm planning to apply this fall when I go back to school. Here are my stats:

• Top 5 med school
• Preclinical grades (Pass/Fail only)- all pass
• Clinical Grades- Honors in medicine and derm, HP in all other core clerkships except for ob/gyn (pass)
• our school doesn't do AOA
• Rank in your medical school class? - I honestly have no clue.. maybe top 50%? Probably somewhere in the middle
• Step1: 250, didn't take step 2 yet (plan to take in December)
• Research- 2 pubs so far with some others in process: 1 basic science non-derm from college (5th author), 1 first-author original research pub in JAAD (accepted). Currently in process: 1st author on derm-related case report (in review), 3rd author on a paper submitted to JAAD (in review), a research letter to JAAD (2nd author- currently writing it), abstract/poster presentation at SID
• LOR: 1 from my research mentor who is pretty well-known in field (probably will be strong), 2 from derm attendings (one from the institution I did research at, one from my home institution) whom I worked with clinically, 1 from medicine (medicine chair of home institution)

I'm not sure if I should have a medicine back-up or not esp since I wanna move back to NY for residency (family there), what do you think?

 

[DermViser]

Hi, I'm currently at the end of taking a research year after MS3, and I'm planning to apply this fall when I go back to school. Here are my stats:

• Top 5 med school
• Preclinical grades (Pass/Fail only)- all pass
• Clinical Grades- Honors in medicine and derm, HP in all other core clerkships except for ob/gyn (pass)
• our school doesn't do AOA
• Rank in your medical school class? - I honestly have no clue.. maybe top 50%? Probably somewhere in the middle
• Step1: 250, didn't take step 2 yet (plan to take in December)
• Research- 2 pubs so far with some others in process: 1 basic science non-derm from college (5th author), 1 first-author original research pub in JAAD (accepted). Currently in process: 1st author on derm-related case report (in review), 3rd author on a paper submitted to JAAD (in review), a research letter to JAAD (2nd author- currently writing it), abstract/poster presentation at SID
• LOR: 1 from my research mentor who is pretty well-known in field (probably will be strong), 2 from derm attendings (one from the institution I did research at, one from my home institution) whom I worked with clinically, 1 from medicine (medicine chair of home institution)

I'm not sure if I should have a medicine back-up or not esp since I wanna move back to NY for residency (family there), what do you think?

I think you're pretty set, honestly.

You go to a top 5 med school without AOA (That leaves only 2 possibilities - both that have excellent derm programs), you've done pretty well in clinicals (I don't think anyone in Derm really cares what OB-Gyn thinks). The only thing you could have done during medical school, to mitigate your clinical grades and being in the middle of your class (although at a great school) is take a year off to do research, which you did, and it looks like you were quite productive.

The only thing I would say is to not be geographically restrictive, esp. NY, but that's for anyone applying to Derm. With as much of a crapshoot the process can be sometimes, with respect to netting interviews, you just can't be location selective in this.

If you're going to apply to IM, you won't be able to use your Derm letters. It's ok to ask your IM person to write for both Derm and IM, but asking a Derm person to write for Derm and IM is a big no-no. It makes you look fickle and not dedicated, unfortunately.

 

[nwonie]

Thanks for your advice, DermViser! You're totally right-- I think I'll probably apply broadly regardless of location, because it's more important for me to be a dermatologist.

 

[dermatology123]

Hi all- deciding between dermatology and internal medicine. I know there are some weaknesses to my application for derm so I'd like to know early if it would be better to just apply into medicine. will apply research track and regular:

-top 25 MSTP
-preclinical: P/F, all pass
-clinical: high pass in all cores (shelf exams were hard coming back from research phase), honors in medicine AI and some electives
- probably middle of the pack in terms of ranking, probably not AOA
-step1: 231 step2: will take later this year
- LoRs from 1) big name PhD mentor 2) home program dermatology chairman, 3) academic dermatologist, 4) home medicine dept chairman, 5) former research mentor
- PhD: and other research (my strong suit): 13 publications, most 1st, 2nd, or 3rd author in high-impact basic science journals; more on the way. research in area highly relevant to dermatology, but not dermatology per se; numerous other abstracts and posters
-Other: bunch of research awards, NIH grant, several leadership ECs, URM.
- Goal is to have a research lab and see patients

 

[asmallchild]

Hi all- deciding between dermatology and internal medicine. I know there are some weaknesses to my application for derm so I'd like to know early if it would be better to just apply into medicine. will apply research track and regular:

-top 25 MSTP
-preclinical: P/F, all pass
-clinical: high pass in all cores (shelf exams were hard coming back from research phase), honors in medicine AI and some electives
- probably middle of the pack in terms of ranking, probably not AOA
-step1: 231 step2: will take later this year
- LoRs from 1) big name PhD mentor 2) home program dermatology chairman, 3) academic dermatologist, 4) home medicine dept chairman, 5) former research mentor
- PhD: and other research (my strong suit): 13 publications, most 1st, 2nd, or 3rd author in high-impact basic science journals; more on the way. research in area highly relevant to dermatology, but not dermatology per se; numerous other abstracts and posters
-Other: bunch of research awards, NIH grant, several leadership ECs, URM.
- Goal is to have a research lab and see patients

Looks like you should be fine, having the PhD always helps

If you are concerned, you can always apply to medicine as a backup. Not sure what kinds of medicine programs you are looking at but when I was applying, I was OK with a community program as a backup plan. Most of the prelims I applied to were community programs and seemed more than happy to have me stay on (if space available) should I have failed to match in dermatology.

 

[Bruinsfinalfour]

Hi everyone,

Rising MS3 at upper/mid-tier school in the east with recent interest in dermatology

-preclinical: all honors
-Step 1: 255
-Research: 12 publications (9 first author), 13 abstracts (7 first author), 5 presentations....None in dermatology.

My question: I know its very early for me and 3rd year grades and AOA are very crucial..but I wanted to ask if my non-derm research will help me or simply not play a role in matching. I spent a lot of time during my preclinical years doing research in two fields where I could see myself pursuing (ortho and radiology) but have recently taken a liking to dermatology (specially dermatopathology). From anyone who was/is in a similar boat..do I still need to get a few pubs in derm to have a reasonable shot at matching? Also, will my extensive research in other fields be a red flag in the eyes of PD as seeing a non-commitment to derm?

Thank you!

 

[Dral]

Hi everyone,

Rising MS3 at upper/mid-tier school in the east with recent interest in dermatology

-preclinical: all honors
-Step 1: 255
-Research: 12 publications (9 first author), 13 abstracts (7 first author), 5 presentations....None in dermatology.

My question: I know its very early for me and 3rd year grades and AOA are very crucial..but I wanted to ask if my non-derm research will help me or simply not play a role in matching. I spent a lot of time during my preclinical years doing research in two fields where I could see myself pursuing (ortho and radiology) but have recently taken a liking to dermatology (specially dermatopathology). From anyone who was/is in a similar boat..do I still need to get a few pubs in derm to have a reasonable shot at matching? Also, will my extensive research in other fields be a red flag in the eyes of PD as seeing a non-commitment to derm?

Thank you!

I was in a similar boat to you. I had an interest in Ortho and a few other things. Found Derm at the end of 3rd year. I had a bunch (like 10) pubs in basic science/eye stuff. I started liking dermpath as well. I did a case report or two and started a dermpath project ASAP.

You will be asked about your research. Just be able to explain your path. You'll need some Derm projects for that path to make sense in the context of Derm/dermpath.

 

[melanie78217]

Hi guys. I am asking this because I have applied to a bunch of away rotations and had a few rejections which has made me nervous. Hoping these rejections are not reflections on my competitiveness for residency. SO here goes..

I'm applying for derm. Long story short, I loved all my rotations third year and when it came time to do ERAS at the beginning of fourth year, I didn't feel ready to make the decision without exploring some specialties I was interested in but had never had the chance to explore. So I didn't apply and spent my last semester of fourth year doing pathology, radiology, dermatology, etc. Fell in love with derm and so now I'm applying in the fall. So I extended my fourth year (will graduate in dec 2014) in order to keep student status so I can do aways in derm. I could have graduated on time, all requirements were met, but I chose to extend (just to be clear because whenever I tell people I'm graduating late, their first instinct is to assume I screwed up somehow! which is totally understandable but for the purpose of my question, I want that to be clear). So here are my stats:

attended average allopathic med school
GPA 3.9
Step 1 = 250
Step 2 = 248
junior AOA
1 internal med case presentation at my schools research day ( not published), 1 derm case presentation published in state medical journal
fair amount of of comm service
great lettters emphasizing that my 3rd year faculty think my decision to extend was "brave" and "showed incredible insight" (very kind mentors I have. one is a dermatologist, one is a family med doctor I worked with for two months third year, one is a neurologist I worked with for one month during third year)

I'm weak in research obviously! And I'm worried schools may look at my extension and see it as a red flag. Just need a little reassurance that I'm not totally crazy to go for derm with those two things on the radar. Thank you and please be kind!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi guys. I am asking this because I have applied to a bunch of away rotations and had a few rejections which has made me nervous. Hoping these rejections are not reflections on my competitiveness for residency. SO here goes..

I'm applying for derm. Long story short, I loved all my rotations third year and when it came time to do ERAS at the beginning of fourth year, I didn't feel ready to make the decision without exploring some specialties I was interested in but had never had the chance to explore. So I didn't apply and spent my last semester of fourth year doing pathology, radiology, dermatology, etc. Fell in love with derm and so now I'm applying in the fall. So I extended my fourth year (will graduate in dec 2014) in order to keep student status so I can do aways in derm. I could have graduated on time, all requirements were met, but I chose to extend (just to be clear because whenever I tell people I'm graduating late, their first instinct is to assume I screwed up somehow! which is totally understandable but for the purpose of my question, I want that to be clear). So here are my stats:

attended average allopathic med school
GPA 3.9
Step 1 = 250
Step 2 = 248
junior AOA
1 internal med case presentation at my schools research day ( not published), 1 derm case presentation published in state medical journal
fair amount of of comm service
great lettters emphasizing that my 3rd year faculty think my decision to extend was "brave" and "showed incredible insight" (very kind mentors I have. one is a dermatologist, one is a family med doctor I worked with for two months third year, one is a neurologist I worked with for one month during third year)

I'm weak in research obviously! And I'm worried schools may look at my extension and see it as a red flag. Just need a little reassurance that I'm not totally crazy to go for derm with those two things on the radar. Thank you and please be kind!

You'll be fine, your stats look great. I would be sure to buff up the research in the interim and have a good answer as to why you chose to extend your fourth year

 

[Dral]

Also have a solid plan in place for Dec until start of intern year.

 

[doctor85]

I get the idea that board scores, AOA and clinical grades help you get through the screening process. Research and connections help rise to the top of the heap. Aways and working at the home institution get your face known. What are your thoughts about the role the actual interview experience plays (if you get one)? With derm being so competitive, do you think there is more or less weight on the actual interview? How much does it "make or break" things? I'd be interested to hear from folks on the other side who have interviewed/ranked applicants or know more about the process? Some people say that once you get to the interview then everyone's on equal playing field. Curious...

 

[PercutaneousKnowledge]

.

 

[asmallchild]

I get the idea that board scores, AOA and clinical grades help you get through the screening process. Research and connections help rise to the top of the heap. Aways and working at the home institution get your face known. What are your thoughts about the role the actual interview experience plays (if you get one)? With derm being so competitive, do you think there is more or less weight on the actual interview? How much does it "make or break" things? I'd be interested to hear from folks on the other side who have interviewed/ranked applicants or know more about the process? Some people say that once you get to the interview then everyone's on equal playing field. Curious...

This will vary from person to person. Our chair was famous for ranking based on Step 1 score. Now if you bomb your interview with her, the highest Step 1 score in the world won't save you but assuming solid interviews among two applicants, the one with the higher Step 1 score would usually win on her rank list. We have some younger attendings who placed more emphasis on how friendly and how easy it was to get along with an applicant during the interviews. Obviously they weighted the interview higher than stats once everyone passed the initial filter.

 

[asmallchild]

Does anyone have insight on osteopathic dermatology programs? Currently at an osteopathic institution with little to no research opportunities for derm in the city limits (and for many miles beyond) - have 10 abstracts (presenting author) and 2 publications (fourth author), but all are related to ortho. Other than great board scores and clinical grades, what else can I do with limited resources? Planning to write some case reports for an institution in South Korea while I observe cosmetic dermatology for 1.5 months after boards, but out of ideas after that. Thank you!

While I am not as familiar with osteopathic programs, the same rules apply for all derm programs. Great board scores, great clinical grades, and great connections. I would probably recommend against the trip to South Korea and instead urge you to focus on making connections in this country. Is there a research project you can latch onto at the closest derm program? Observing cosmetic dermatology is also unlikely to impress academic dermatologists.

 

[doctor85]

I read DermMatch's guide to derm residency and wanted to know others' opinions on how many programs (both derm and prelim) someone should apply to. Some folks say you should apply to as many as you can afford and "select all." Any other thoughts?

Maybe this isn't the best thread for this question, but I figured it related to chances of matching and another application cycle is fast approaching.

 

[username456789]

I read DermMatch's guide to derm residency and wanted to know others' opinions on how many programs (both derm and prelim) someone should apply to. Some folks say you should apply to as many as you can afford and "select all." Any other thoughts?

Maybe this isn't the best thread for this question, but I figured it related to chances of matching and another application cycle is fast approaching.

My take is that you've already spent (presumably) a ton of money on medical education and busted your ass for years to get to this point. Now is NOT the time to be skimping or penny-pinching when it comes to applying. I see no reason not to apply as widely as possible, with the exception perhaps of avoiding any individual programs you could absolutely not see yourself being a part of.

 

[asmallchild]

I read DermMatch's guide to derm residency and wanted to know others' opinions on how many programs (both derm and prelim) someone should apply to. Some folks say you should apply to as many as you can afford and "select all." Any other thoughts?

Maybe this isn't the best thread for this question, but I figured it related to chances of matching and another application cycle is fast approaching.

I agree, I would apply to as many programs as you could possibly see yourself at. Now is a poor time to pinch pennies. Unless things have changed, I believe the application fee covers up to 10 programs so in terms of prelims, that should be more than enough.

 

[doctor85]

I agree, I would apply to as many programs as you could possibly see yourself at. Now is a poor time to pinch pennies. Unless things have changed, I believe the application fee covers up to 10 programs so in terms of prelims, that should be more than enough.

Thanks for the advice. It makes sense to apply to as many derm programs as I would be willing to go to (which is probably all of them since that sounds better than going unmatched!).

You say 10 prelims is enough to apply to. Do others agree with that number and do you have any strategy on selecting those programs? Also, prelim or transitional?

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the advice. It makes sense to apply to as many derm programs as I would be willing to go to (which is probably all of them since that sounds better than going unmatched!).

You say 10 prelims is enough to apply to. Do others agree with that number and do you have any strategy on selecting those programs? Also, prelim or transitional?

10 prelims is more than enough. Transitionals are different so you will have to pay another application fee and that will net you 10 transitional year programs. You can certainly apply to 20 but I would be very selective where you choose to interview (you'll burn out before derm interview season if you go on 20 internship interviews). I did a prelim year myself which is usually tougher than a transitional year. You can go hardcore and pick the toughest one possible. You can go relaxed and pick one of the internship years with nearly 50% elective time. I just tell people to pick the one that makes you happiest (usually some combo of cushy and close to friends/family or in a location you would never think to spend one year living in)

 

[melanie78217]

You'll be fine, your stats look great. I would be sure to buff up the research in the interim and have a good answer as to why you chose to extend your fourth year

Thanks for the response. I ended up getting four away rotations so I feel a little more confident and I will have two more derm publications come time to apply. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[thegiraffe23]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post to ask for opinions from those of you who've gone through the match process or have interviewed applicants. The "what are my chances" thread looked like it hadn't gotten much attention lately...

I'm an mdphd student, 244 step 1 at a top 10 school in NYC. I received honors in most of clerkships including medicine, and have had a moderate phd career thus far (2-3 first author basic sci).

I have good connections at my home program, but am trying to match in a California program to be with my family and boyfriend. I am also looking to match at a program that emphasizes research with good NIH funding, such as UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, and Stanford, as I'm hoping to run a lab one day and go into academia, where pedigree matters. However, from what I've read, my step score and stats are considered fairly low for these programs, and I may even be screened out.

I know many factors are involved in being successful, and realize that at the end of the day, I should just apply and see. Maybe I'm looking for reassurance to calm my type AAA personality... I'm just wondering how much a 244 would be an issue at these competitive CA programs with their sea of 250s and 260s.

 

[Dermione Granger]

Your stats look great! I think you have a good chance if you are not picky about the exact program to go, especially if you are able to fit in an away rotation to the institution you would like to go. I think Stanford and UCSF are what many people consider some of the hardest programs to get into.

I know of at least one other person with your similar background (MD-PhD in basic science, top NYC school, unknown scores) who matched a UC program without any away rotation, and she's not from Cali. I also have a friend of mine from Cali, who went to a lower-tier midwest school and matched at a Cali program she did an away. She has good stats, not PhD, and did not take a year off. But she is a genuinely nice and friendly person and I'm sure she did well at the away rotation.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post to ask for opinions from those of you who've gone through the match process or have interviewed applicants. The "what are my chances" thread looked like it hadn't gotten much attention lately...

I'm an mdphd student, 244 step 1 at a top 10 school in NYC. I received honors in most of clerkships including medicine, and have had a moderate phd career thus far (2-3 first author basic sci).

I have good connections at my home program, but am trying to match in a California program to be with my family and boyfriend. I am also looking to match at a program that emphasizes research with good NIH funding, such as UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, and Stanford, as I'm hoping to run a lab one day and go into academia, where pedigree matters. However, from what I've read, my step score and stats are considered fairly low for these programs, and I may even be screened out.

I know many factors are involved in being successful, and realize that at the end of the day, I should just apply and see. Maybe I'm looking for reassurance to calm my type AAA personality... I'm just wondering how much a 244 would be an issue at these competitive CA programs with their sea of 250s and 260s.

Please keep WAMC posts in the WAMC thread.

Given your MD/PhD status, your above average Step 1, and your school pedigree, you should be fine. I know of plenty of programs that use 240 as a cutoff. I am not aware of those with a hard 250/260 cutoff but even so, if that's where you want to be, you just have to apply and see where it goes. While I understand the desire to be close to your family and boyfriend, the most important item is to match. You can always relocate after residency if necessary.

 

[leflyingolive]

edited to remove information...thanks all

 

[Dral]

Hard to say about California. You'll likely get invites. It will likely depend on LoRs and your interview performance.

Don't focus on limiting yourself geographically unless you 100% have to.