pre-match

[phillysdoc]

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What's the deal with the pre-match for DO's at ACGME programs? I've heard many vague references to it, but not too many specific details. Is it something that is really done any more, and if so how common? Are certain fields or programs more likely to offer them? Is it usually the programs or the students that initiate discussing them?

 

[DocEspana]

What's the deal with the pre-match for DO's at ACGME programs? I've heard many vague references to it, but not too many specific details. Is it something that is really done any more, and if so how common? Are certain fields or programs more likely to offer them? Is it usually the programs or the students that initiate discussing them?

Probably wont need to worry about it. It won't exist after September 2012, when the "all-in" policy comes into effect. So unless youre in the class of 2012 the last medical class getting pre-matces, you won't have to deal with them from ACGME/NRMP programs.

In theory the SF match programs could be able to pre-match, but now we're talking about a pretty tiny subgroup of all non-AOA residencies.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Probably wont need to worry about it. It won't exist after September 2012, when the "all-in" policy comes into effect. So unless youre in the class of 2012 the last medical class getting pre-matces, you won't have to deal with them from ACGME/NRMP programs.

In theory the SF match programs could be able to pre-match, but now we're talking about a pretty tiny subgroup of all non-AOA residencies.

Yeah, and take a look at the SF match. Most of those residencies would be tough for MDs to even match. 👍

 

[phillysdoc]

I actually am in the class of 2012. Any info you could offer would help. Thanks.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Depends on specialty and program really.

What's your interest?

 

[phillysdoc]

Emergency medicine in the PA/NY/NJ area. I am also torn between the AOA and ACGME route and have average stats. So I was wondering if this might be an option rather than deal with the drama of the ACGME match process.

 

[DocEspana]

EM is actually one of the strongest AOA fields in the states you listed. Crazy, this will work out well for you. The real standouts are Albert Einstein in Philly, St. Barnabus (both in Bronx and Newark branches of the residency), and Good Samaritan out in West Islip.

I dont know the stats on every field, but if I were to guess, this is probably the most well known residency field in this area in the AOA residencies. A lot of programs (11 if you discount the Erie ones) in the three states. Obviously you gotta make this decision on your own, but I would think AOA EM would be a nice way to go in your situation given the number of well known programs, and a number of "also there" programs in the area.

 

[DocEspana]

oh also.... St. Barnabus's Bronx residency has one of the most creative interview processes out there. Definitely not a "tell us why you want this hospital" type deal.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Emergency medicine in the PA/NY/NJ area. I am also torn between the AOA and ACGME route and have average stats. So I was wondering if this might be an option rather than deal with the drama of the ACGME match process.

Did you take USMLE?

Given how competitive MD EM has become, I doubt they do many pre-matches.

There's the DO options stated above. I'm not too familiar with them, but have heard great things about those hospitals mentioned.

 

[JimT30]

Probably wont need to worry about it. It won't exist after September 2012, when the "all-in" policy comes into effect. So unless youre in the class of 2012 the last medical class getting pre-matces, you won't have to deal with them from ACGME/NRMP programs.

In theory the SF match programs could be able to pre-match, but now we're talking about a pretty tiny subgroup of all non-AOA residencies.

There is no pre-match for the SF Match

 

[Kuba]

EM is actually one of the strongest AOA fields in the states you listed. Crazy, this will work out well for you. The real standouts are Albert Einstein in Philly, St. Barnabus (both in Bronx and Newark branches of the residency), and Good Samaritan out in West Islip.

I dont know the stats on every field, but if I were to guess, this is probably the most well known residency field in this area in the AOA residencies. A lot of programs (11 if you discount the Erie ones) in the three states. Obviously you gotta make this decision on your own, but I would think AOA EM would be a nice way to go in your situation given the number of well known programs, and a number of "also there" programs in the area.

Newark Beth Israel is no longer AOA. and St barnabas healthcare and st barnabas hospital arent the same thing.

 

[DocEspana]

Newark Beth Israel is no longer AOA. and St barnabas healthcare and st barnabas hospital arent the same thing.

Well I knew they weren't the same thing... sort of... hahaha. I assumed it was two different OPTI's. I was half way to the right conclusion.

Where did you hear its not AOA from? Opportunities says its AOA for 5 more years (updated as of 2 months ago. so maybe since then?)

 

[DocEspana]

There is no pre-match for the SF Match

Well that settles that. Then no need to worry about pre-matching anywhere .

 

[Kuba]

Well I knew they weren't the same thing... sort of... hahaha. I assumed it was two different OPTI's. I was half way to the right conclusion.

Where did you hear its not AOA from? Opportunities says its AOA for 5 more years (updated as of 2 months ago. so maybe since then?)

My friend is starting there this year. You couldn't do the AOA match with them this year and he was told that was permanent. Still very DO friendly, but no longer dual, just ACGME.

 

[wannabeOBGYN]

Depends on specialty and program really.

What's your interest?

What about ob/gyn? Do any big name programs prematch? I'm looking at places in Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston, mainly.

Also, is this something that can be brought up at a program? I've heard mixed responses about whether it's appropriate to inquire about pre-matching. If a place is your first choice and you want to be very clear you want to be there, but you are entering into both matches, wouldn't it be helpful to let them know?

Thanks.

 

[GQMO16]

have you guys ever heard of an avg do student (no USMLE) pre-match for IM or do they typically only pre-match the stellar ones and let the rest wait for match day?

 

[JHex90]

I got a 475 / 80 on the COMLEX I, anyone know just how behind the 8 ball I am for a shot at an ER residency?

 

[Kuba]

I got a 475 / 80 on the COMLEX I, anyone know just how behind the 8 ball I am for a shot at an ER residency?

Not if you waste your time posting the same question in multiple threads. Seriously, you're behind, but not out. Have to do better on Level II.

 

[FutureInternist]

Although I am not sure, I believe the new rules state that there is no more pre-match, even for FMGs & DOs. (The "all-in" option)

"Based on a recent rule change that has already been approved by the NRMP, the Class of 2012 will be the last class where “independent” applicants (DOs and FMGs) will be permitted to “pre-match.” (US trained MDs were never permitted to “pre-match.”)"

 

[CanAmPremed]

I'm in the 2012 class and am interested in an MD program for Family Practice at either the University at Buffalo (or any ACGME program there) or one in Detroit.

If there is one field that would prematch I think it might definitely be FP no? However my step 1 is 485/80 mid class rank and yet to take the step 2.

How do I go about requesting a pre-match? I have an elective rotation at the program at the university at buffalo.

Thanks

 

[the alchemist]

I'm in the 2012 class and am interested in an MD program for Family Practice at either the University at Buffalo (or any ACGME program there) or one in Detroit.

If there is one field that would prematch I think it might definitely be FP no? However my step 1 is 485/80 mid class rank and yet to take the step 2.

How do I go about requesting a pre-match? I have an elective rotation at the program at the university at buffalo.

Thanks

yes, this yr (2012) is the last yr that fmg/do can prematch (ie - sign a contract out of and before match day). nrmp's "all in" policy will go into effect for those applying to residencies to start in 2013. this policy became final in 5/2011 and nrmp pretty much controls the acgme/md match. md programs can choose to put all of their spots into nrmp match (ie - offer no contracts outside the match) or none (hence "all in" or more like "all or none") in which case they have to hope to get enough ppl to consider them as their #1 to apply through a non-nrmp process and choose them to fill ALL their spots...and most schools won't take that gamble esp if they have a large # of spots to fill. so nrmp is expecting that most programs will comply and put their spots all in.

that being said, we had >10% of the class of 2011 prematch at my do school and this is done in diff ways. some were offered at where they did a rotation/sub-i at the program b/c they were so awesome, some were offered after the interview by having programs call them b/c they loved them, and some discreetly nudged to feel out programs they interviewed at to see if they were willing to prematch and put it out there discreetly that they would go there as #1 and sign out of the match.

 

[wannabeOBGYN]

yes, this yr (2012) is the last yr that fmg/do can prematch (ie - sign a contract out of and before match day). nrmp's "all in" policy will go into effect for those applying to residencies to start in 2013. this policy became final in 5/2011 and nrmp pretty much controls the acgme/md match. md programs can choose to put all of their spots into nrmp match (ie - offer no contracts outside the match) or none (hence "all in" or more like "all or none") in which case they have to hope to get enough ppl to consider them as their #1 to apply through a non-nrmp process and choose them to fill ALL their spots...and most schools won't take that gamble esp if they have a large # of spots to fill. so nrmp is expecting that most programs will comply and put their spots all in.

that being said, we had >10% of the class of 2011 prematch at my do school and this is done in diff ways. some were offered at where they did a rotation/sub-i at the program b/c they were so awesome, some were offered after the interview by having programs call them b/c they loved them, and some discreetly nudged to feel out programs they interviewed at to see if they were willing to prematch and put it out there discreetly that they would go there as #1 and sign out of the match.

How do you word that discreetly? From what I've been told, you should NEVER bring up pre-matching because it looks arrogant, like you think you deserve it. I was told to be clear that a place is #1 but don't ask anybody - residents or otherwise - if pre-matching is an option. Has anyone else heard something different?

 

[the alchemist]

How do you word that discreetly? From what I've been told, you should NEVER bring up pre-matching because it looks arrogant, like you think you deserve it. I was told to be clear that a place is #1 but don't ask anybody - residents or otherwise - if pre-matching is an option. Has anyone else heard something different?

i just know someone who prematched w/ a "discreet" hint tho i didn't ask the details since i wasn't planning to try to do this. students can let programs know that they're their #1 but programs r technically not allowed to ask u how u would rank them. that's a match violation tho i'm sure on the DL, things happen. i do know a program where they did prematch someone the day after the interview b/c they loved the candidate from what i heard from residents. my friends who prematched this year were contacted by their programs and offered a contract, most b4 dec if i remember.

 

[ShyRem]

We had a student come in for an interview and flat out said "I want a pre-match." Her attitude the rest of the day was abysmal. Like she would be doing us a favor if we pre-matched her. Because of her attitude, she wasn't even ranked.

Pre-match offers are not very common. And should never be expected or demanded. You are welcome to tell a program of your interest, your desire to be at their program, that they are your #1 choice, but don't ever go to a program and demand a pre-match.

 

[the alchemist]

We had a student come in for an interview and flat out said "I want a pre-match." Her attitude the rest of the day was abysmal. Like she would be doing us a favor if we pre-matched her. Because of her attitude, she wasn't even ranked.

Pre-match offers are not very common. And should never be expected or demanded. You are welcome to tell a program of your interest, your desire to be at their program, that they are your #1 choice, but don't ever go to a program and demand a pre-match.

wow *eyes popping out of my face* - i can't believe someone would do that honestly...the person who i know who hinted discreetly wasn't someone with good #s and she didn't prematch to a good program in the specialty (actually one that is on probation tho i didn't tell her that b/c why be mean to someone i don't know well, if she was my close friend, i would've told her b4 she took a prematch there). i think she just felt out the PD and put it out there that she'd go if she got in early (as a do that she can prematch)...

i think ur obvious is sound...ppl should just pretend as if this isn't the last yr of prematching and be the best they can on their interviews...lol...

 

[DocEspana]

I will now exhume a slightly old thread just to rant a bit.

Was just reading the minutes of the COSGP HoD back in July. There was a motion to support the NRMP move to eliminate pre-matches. It was shown that pre-matches primarily benefit offshore schools and is utilized by a small minority of DO students... and.... the COSGP rejected the motion to support the existent policy because it will "strengthen DO residencies to have NRMP prematches". I kid you not. Ugh. I don't usually say this, but definitely a vote on the wrong side of progress and the future and without (to my sensibilities) a good evidence-based reasoning.

Do our school leaders honestly believe this? Maybe the minutes greatly sell the argument short? IDK. I'm just disappointed that they honestly opposed something that isn't theirs to oppose, is already decided, *benefits* DO students by overwhelmingly impacting IMGs, and has only a small direct usage by DO students. Protecting the right to be different and separate, even when eliminating that difference brings us closer to USMD and farther from IMG.

/rant and whine.

 

[thepoopologist]

I will now exhume a slightly old thread just to rant a bit.

Was just reading the minutes of the COSGP HoD back in July. There was a motion to support the NRMP move to eliminate pre-matches. It was shown that pre-matches primarily benefit offshore schools and is utilized by a small minority of DO students... and.... the COSGP rejected the motion to support the existent policy because it will "strengthen DO residencies to have NRMP prematches". I kid you not. Ugh. I don't usually say this, but definitely a vote on the wrong side of progress and the future and without (to my sensibilities) a good evidence-based reasoning.

Do our school leaders honestly believe this? Maybe the minutes greatly sell the argument short? IDK. I'm just disappointed that they honestly opposed something that isn't theirs to oppose, is already decided, *benefits* DO students by overwhelmingly impacting IMGs, and has only a small direct usage by DO students. Protecting the right to be different and separate, even when eliminating that difference brings us closer to USMD and farther from IMG.

/rant and whine.

lulz