Umich vs Yale...But for Family Medicine

[WaluigiWAH]

Hi All,

I am looking for advice as my spouse and I are moving to wherever they are going to med school- yay!

In terms of future career plans, my partner is set on doing Family Medicine. They are very, very keen on opening up a free or highly reduced-cost clinic in the future. Eventually, they plan to go into politics because this country's healthcare system sucks and it needs to change. Unfortunately, because of that, prestige of the institution probably does matter. (Update: From other people's comments below, it seems that this is not as important as we thought!)

I currently work at a University and like higher ed, so I plan on continuing to work at a University. Ideally, I would also really like to get my master's.

Some background on my partner: They are not too concerned about P/F, they are not a gunner/competitive type, but are a grinder, so they'll do whatever they need to do in school. However, I would prefer a place where they are not stressed all of the time. We'll make friends wherever we go, so not worried about student body or what the other students are like. Being close to family, however, would be big for us. Also, my partner can't drive...yet, so having some public transportation options would be wicked. With that being said, here are the schools we are in-between on.

UMich (Full Tuition Scholarship) (Full Tuition Scholarship + COA)
Pros

• Location seems really, well, cute. We really hate big cities, but also don't want somewhere extremely rural. This seems to be a great middle ground
• Actually has a Family Medicine Program
• Dean's scholarship recipient, which let's my partner get another degree in addition to MD. Could be helpful to get an MBA to help with opening a clinic
• Fairly low COL (After visiting this is absolutely not true, LOL)
• School will probably be able to cover full COA after we receive the need-based aid estimate (Update: school matched our other offers for COA scholarship!)

Cons

• Outside of medicine, not sure how much prestige is associated with the university
• Pretty far away from family
• Not P/F, so more stress/less free time?
• Seems like you absolutely need a car to get to other clinical sites, including for family medicine (This really stinks)
• Unusually high COL for Midwest

Yale (Full COA Need-Based Scholarship)
Pros

• Closer to family
• P/F system seems very chill
• Very well paying for jobs
• Full COA covered
• Pretty diverse patient population
• High prestige in medicine, big name outside of medicine (This doesn't seem to matter that much though)

Cons

• No Family Medicine Program!
• People may not "get" going into FM?
• New Haven is just alright, though we like that it's not a big city
• Need-based, so cost could change from year to year and will probably change for at least one year due to some external circumstances (Update: Talked to Financial Aid folks and this should not really be an issue)

We're really torn between UMich and Yale. Umich matching the COA offers makes it much more appealing, but traveling to and from family will be a much bigger pain. All advice/ideas/info is appreciated!

Thanks!

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[NotADoctor1]

Congrats to you and your partner! Your partner will have zero problems matching FM from any of those schools. UPenn and Yale would probably have the most prestige outside of medicine and might be the most helpful if they have political ambitions. From a vibes standpoint, I consistently hear about how happy students are at Yale. I think given the prestige, cost, and vibes, Yale seems like the best option

 

[Egg-Benedict]

Two things:

First, WashU is essentially entirely pass/fail.

Also, I don't know a lot about politics, but I question how much the prestige of the medical school matters. For example, there are MDs in Congress who went to LSU, Kansas, UC Irvine, UIC, Texas, and South Dakota, among others. I don't really see how going to UMich or WashU would limit you in that regard, particularly if you were living in the state where the school is.

Even so, I don't think there's an obvious choice here. (Though, if you think that the need-based aid would significantly decrease for a year at Yale and this would require you to take out a lot of loans, that would be something to consider.)

 

[MercifulCamper]

If your partner is truly dead set on FM, I would advise y'all not to go to WashU or Yale. They don't even have a FM department/residency and do not offer it I believe as a clerkship. Going to WashU/Yale for family medicine would be like going to a fancy steakhouse in the middle of Nebraska and ordering the fish. I think Michigan may better serve your partner for primary care but ultimately you may just want to go with whatever is cheapest for you guys to put your partner in the best ability to open his practice the way he wants it without any debt. In that case I would go to Yale to avoid debt (but as far as I remember from getting into Yale last year was that the least amount of debt you could graduate from Yale with was like 40-50k).

 

[deleted1065184]

UMich, and it's not even close. Neither WashU nor Yale even have an FM department. So ofc neither has an FM residency. Neither cares much about primary care, in all honestly. Penn is slightly better and has an FM department (and residency), but Michigan is leaps and bounds ahead of the other schools in terms of primary care.

Yale and WashU are both pass/fail all 4 years, but you don't have to perform spectacularly on clerkships to match into FM, so a tiered grading system will be okay for them. Considering the FM and location, your partner needs to go to Michigan.

 

[deleted1065184]

Sorry @MercifulCamper , didn't read your comment before I commented. I essentially said the exact same thing as you 💀

 

[MercifulCamper]

Sorry @MercifulCamper , didn't read your comment before I commented. I essentially said the exact same thing as you 💀

Lmao its chill we are on the same wavelength

 

[LunaOri]

If Yale is closer to your family/support system, it could work well for you, especially because your partner’s ultimate goal is policy-oriented. There are plenty of other colleges in the area where you could get a masters degree (of course, that is true for Philadelphia and St. Louis also).

 

[Hollow Knight]

edit: also, I'm shooting for FM, I'm involved with the AAFP (at the state level), and my school is supportive, so if I can help, feel free to DM.

I don't want to be rude, but your partner's life plan doesn't make a ton ton of financial sense. Or maybe we just don't have all the details.

Going to a super expensive ivy league school and then opening a free clinic is going to be very hard to pull off. How will they pay their loans off?

If doing NHSC, HPSP, or getting a huge scholarship, this makes more sense.

Also, the fact that Yale and WashU don't even have FM programs tells us everything we need to know about what they think of the specialty. Many of those fancier schools actively discourage their students from applying FM (behind closed doors of course because that's not PC anymore).

It sounds to me like UMich is a good option, but honestly, I'd just go to your cheapest in-state school. I'm involved in politics with my state's FM board, and honestly, school prestige doesn't matter at all for politics.

Now, if they want to be dean of Harvard, yeah, school prestige matters. But you can run for the AAFP leadership positions from any school, and many schools (including mine) would actually be better for this than Yale for example.

 

[WaluigiWAH]

Congrats to you and your partner! Your partner will have zero problems matching FM from any of those schools. UPenn and Yale would probably have the most prestige outside of medicine and might be the most helpful if they have political ambitions. From a vibes standpoint, I consistently hear about how happy students are at Yale. I think given the prestige, cost, and vibes, Yale seems like the best option

Thanks so much for the input! I do agree that it seems Yale has some of the most relaxed students and that would definitely be a plus. I think the biggest pro for Yale would be that it's completely covered for COA and nearer to family.

 

[WaluigiWAH]

Two things:

First, WashU is essentially entirely pass/fail.

Also, I don't know a lot about politics, but I question how much the prestige of the medical school matters. For example, there are MDs in Congress who went to LSU, Kansas, UC Irvine, UIC, Texas, and South Dakota, among others. I don't really see how going to UMich or WashU would limit you in that regard, particularly if you were living in the state where the school is.

Even so, I don't think there's an obvious choice here. (Though, if you think that the need-based aid would significantly decrease for a year at Yale and this would require you to take out a lot of loans, that would be something to consider.)

Yes, it's not definite that the needs-based aid would change significantly, but it is a possibility, so that's something we are factoring into the decision. My partner will need to do more research into the background of these politicians, but I think it's great to know that many come from a variety of different med schools and not just the most prestigious ones. Something that I am curious about is how wealthy these politicians were before they went to med school, because being rich obviously gives you a leg up in getting to positions of power.

 

[WaluigiWAH]

If your partner is truly dead set on FM, I would advise y'all not to go to WashU or Yale. They don't even have a FM department/residency and do not offer it I believe as a clerkship. Going to WashU/Yale for family medicine would be like going to a fancy steakhouse in the middle of Nebraska and ordering the fish. I think Michigan may better serve your partner for primary care but ultimately you may just want to go with whatever is cheapest for you guys to put your partner in the best ability to open his practice the way he wants it without any debt. In that case I would go to Yale to avoid debt (but as far as I remember from getting into Yale last year was that the least amount of debt you could graduate from Yale with was like 40-50k).

UMich, and it's not even close. Neither WashU nor Yale even have an FM department. So ofc neither has an FM residency. Neither cares much about primary care, in all honestly. Penn is slightly better and has an FM department (and residency), but Michigan is leaps and bounds ahead of the other schools in terms of primary care.

Yale and WashU are both pass/fail all 4 years, but you don't have to perform spectacularly on clerkships to match into FM, so a tiered grading system will be okay for them. Considering the FM and location, your partner needs to go to Michigan.

LOL, love the analogy. Yale (as of right now) would be the cheapest option, because we are so poor (lol) that we do not even have to pay the 10,000 per year in loans. The need-based scholarship would totally cover COA, so nothing would need to be repaid. My partner and I were very surprised about that when they received the email detailing their aid package, because it doesn't state anywhere on the website that one can have everything covered.

My partner hasn't yet received their financial aid package from Michigan, but if they can match a full COA scholarship, it will make Michigan much more appealing. (I think it's likely they will, but I won't bet on anything until I see it). UMich hands down seems to have better PCP options and that's really important, seeing that WashU and Yale are like two of ten schools that don't have a family medicine department. (And yes, my partner knew that when applying, but also knew the higher ranked schools tend to be very generous with aid/scholarships, which they need, especially wanting to go into FM).

 

[WaluigiWAH]

edit: also, I'm shooting for FM, I'm involved with the AAFP (at the state level), and my school is supportive, so if I can help, feel free to DM.

I don't want to be rude, but your partner's life plan doesn't make a ton ton of financial sense. Or maybe we just don't have all the details.

Going to a super expensive ivy league school and then opening a free clinic is going to be very hard to pull off. How will they pay their loans off?

If doing NHSC, HPSP, or getting a huge scholarship, this makes more sense.

Also, the fact that Yale and WashU don't even have FM programs tells us everything we need to know about what they think of the specialty. Many of those fancier schools actively discourage their students from applying FM (behind closed doors of course because that's not PC anymore).

It sounds to me like UMich is a good option, but honestly, I'd just go to your cheapest in-state school. I'm involved in politics with my state's FM board, and honestly, school prestige doesn't matter at all for politics.

Now, if they want to be dean of Harvard, yeah, school prestige matters. But you can run for the AAFP leadership positions from any school, and many schools (including mine) would actually be better for this than Yale for example.

LOL, it's always a good start when people say "I don't want to be rude". In all seriousness, I genuinely appreciate the candid response. We need real advice/insight, so this is super helpful. Going to an expensive ivy (or any school for that matter) would make it nearly impossible to open up a clinic without going into a higher paying specialty. They wouldn't be able to do that, had the schools they applied to been less generous. Fortunately, all of these schools (sans UPenn, hence why it's not really a consideration here) have given them full-tuition scholarships/need-based aid, making FM a possibility. Yale has confirmed that it will pay my partner's full COA and WashU has hinted to them that it is very likely they will also pay for their full COA due to our need. UMich hasn't yet done this, but based on some posts from last year, it seems likely that they will also receive full COA scholarships due to need (though we are ofc waiting to actually receive the fin aid package).

Based on your response and some others here, it appears that school prestige matters far less for going into politics than we originally thought, which is honestly such a relief. That's one less thing we have to weigh when making this decision, which is great. I will definitely DM you, since you seem to have a lot of insight into FM.

If any other folks want to weigh in or DM, please do- Thank you all!!

 

[WaluigiWAH]

If Yale is closer to your family/support system, it could work well for you, especially because your partner’s ultimate goal is policy-oriented. There are plenty of other colleges in the area where you could get a masters degree (of course, that is true for Philadelphia and St. Louis also).

Yes, the location of Yale being closer to family is huge and we've actually traveled a ton to New England, so I know that I generally like it up there! You're right about the other colleges as well- I just know, anecdotally, that Yale pays and treats its employees particularly well

 

[WaluigiWAH]

Hey All! Circling back to this, because UMich just matched our COA offers from other schools! We need to decide in the next few days and we are super torn. The Financial Aid office at Yale told us that our aid shouldn't change much even with the external circumstances, so that is a big relief. Therefore, both should ideally be the same "cost".

One question I have is that my family is from the East Coast, but my partner's family is from the West Coast. We would like to settle down on the East Coast, but would we have a problem matching back to the East Coast if we went to Michigan, since it's my immediate family and not theirs? Just want to make sure of this as well.

 

[Dr. Sahab]

First off, full COA amazing! UMich is by far the best fit as many others have highlighted above. Umich is a top institution and matches extremely well. If you look at match lists from the past year(s), they match all across the US. There would still be strong reasoning for them to match back to the East coast, so really matching shouldn't be a concern. The cost was the biggest factor remaining, and since thats been covered, going to Umich is a no brainer.

Congratulations!

 

[liketb12]

Full tuition + COA at UMich all the way! Also note, New Haven is definitely more expensive than Michigan lmfao - nearly NYC pricing for no reason beyond the fact everyone is mostly a rich white NYC escapee.

Agree with everyone up here and also the emphasis on having home training programs where you can get a great letter from the PD to go wherever you want in the FM world, & their matching outcomes are at the best institutions in the US. And this is not just for the literal ability of being able to do a solid rotation in FM, but also do research and projects with FM ppl. You will have no problem ending up wherever you want to go, east or west coast - there's a reason UMich grads are highly sought after.

Going somewhere where you wouldn't have that GIANT ADVANTAGE (arguably the point of your med school education) at WashU or Yale would be a HUGE disservice to yourself and future career.

 

[Egg-Benedict]

Hey All! Circling back to this, because UMich just matched our COA offers from other schools! We need to decide in the next few days and we are super torn. The Financial Aid office at Yale told us that our aid shouldn't change much even with the external circumstances, so that is a big relief. Therefore, both should ideally be the same "cost".

One question I have is that my family is from the East Coast, but my partner's family is from the West Coast. We would like to settle down on the East Coast, but would we have a problem matching back to the East Coast if we went to Michigan, since it's my immediate family and not theirs? Just want to make sure of this as well.

UMich is the clear best choice, then. Their graduates have no trouble matching to the East Coast.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

I think there is some value in going to a school on the east coast if that is your target for residency. Making connections/easier move etc.

I would recommend your partner try to get connected to students pursuing FM at both schools and have them chat about opportunities.

I believe people in this thread are making FM out to be a very siloed field - while Yale doesn't have an FM program, we match FM regularly (again, not a competitive field) and we have very good programs that are essential components to FM (OBGYN, Addiction Med, Internal Medicine, arguably EM as well). You're not going to be doing yourself a disservice coming from Yale. You can do research in any of these areas or with local free clinics/FM physicians.

I am not a FM person (God bless those who are) but I am just providing this POV in case Yale in other circumstances feels like the better fit. I also do not want to undermine your partner's noble aspirations, but many many MANY people change their minds when they get into med school (I did effectively a 180 midway through my clinical year).

You also really want P/F clerkships even if you don't want something competitive - the stress-free environment is so nice. Happy to answer any further questions

 

[Hollow Knight]

I know we talked but probably UMich just because Yale doesn't really believe in Family Medicine.

If your partner isn't set on FM though, Yale might be better to match the super competitive stuff.

You can't make a wrong decision here honestly

 

[WaluigiWAH]

First off, full COA amazing! UMich is by far the best fit as many others have highlighted above. Umich is a top institution and matches extremely well. If you look at match lists from the past year(s), they match all across the US. There would still be strong reasoning for them to match back to the East coast, so really matching shouldn't be a concern. The cost was the biggest factor remaining, and since thats been covered, going to Umich is a no brainer.

Congratulations!

Thank you and thanks so much for your response! UMich is awesome and we're relieved to know that we can match back to the East Coast easily

 

[WaluigiWAH]

Full tuition + COA at UMich all the way! Also note, New Haven is definitely more expensive than Michigan lmfao - nearly NYC pricing for no reason beyond the fact everyone is mostly a rich white NYC escapee.

Agree with everyone up here and also the emphasis on having home training programs where you can get a great letter from the PD to go wherever you want in the FM world, & their matching outcomes are at the best institutions in the US. And this is not just for the literal ability of being able to do a solid rotation in FM, but also do research and projects with FM ppl. You will have no problem ending up wherever you want to go, east or west coast - there's a reason UMich grads are highly sought after.

Going somewhere where you wouldn't have that GIANT ADVANTAGE (arguably the point of your med school education) at WashU or Yale would be a HUGE disservice to yourself and future career.

UMich is the clear best choice, then. Their graduates have no trouble matching to the East Coast.

Yeah, I hear you on the price! It is definitely expensive for no reason. I was just surprised to see that Ann Arbor was also super expensive, considering it's a small city in the Midwest. Of course, since it's mostly students living there, the landlords appear to just jack up the price of housing. For what we are looking for, however, expenses would actually be about the same for both cities! A little hard to believe honestly.

All the UMich students we met were awesome and we vibed really well with them. They seemed super down to earth, which we appreciated! I can absolutely see why they are so sought after.

Thank you both so much for your comments!

 

[WaluigiWAH]

I think there is some value in going to a school on the east coast if that is your target for residency. Making connections/easier move etc.

I would recommend your partner try to get connected to students pursuing FM at both schools and have them chat about opportunities.

I believe people in this thread are making FM out to be a very siloed field - while Yale doesn't have an FM program, we match FM regularly (again, not a competitive field) and we have very good programs that are essential components to FM (OBGYN, Addiction Med, Internal Medicine, arguably EM as well). You're not going to be doing yourself a disservice coming from Yale. You can do research in any of these areas or with local free clinics/FM physicians.

I am not a FM person (God bless those who are) but I am just providing this POV in case Yale in other circumstances feels like the better fit. I also do not want to undermine your partner's noble aspirations, but many many MANY people change their minds when they get into med school (I did effectively a 180 midway through my clinical year).

You also really want P/F clerkships even if you don't want something competitive - the stress-free environment is so nice. Happy to answer any further questions

Thank you so much for this perspective! I think you're absolutely right about connecting with FM people from both schools to hear more about their individual experiences.

The P/F clerkships are definitely sweet though! Although my partner can grind for hours upon hours, it seems that grading is very subjective for the clinical parts of Med School.

 

[WaluigiWAH]

I know we talked but probably UMich just because Yale doesn't really believe in Family Medicine.

If your partner isn't set on FM though, Yale might be better to match the super competitive stuff.

You can't make a wrong decision here honestly

Thanks for your input both here and in the DMs! I agree, both choices are fantastic and we can't really go wrong with either school