Harvard Medical School (full tuition + 20k stipend) vs UCLA DGSOM (Geffen Scholarship)

[hmsdgsom]

Harvard Medical School vs UCLA DGSOM

Hi, I am a first generation student who doesn’t really have anyone to ask for help. Please don’t roast me for my dumb questions, I am really trying to learn about this whole process as I go through it. I am tremendously grateful to be in this situation and never would have thought this would be a decision to consider. I am from Los Angeles, my family and my partner of 5 years will be staying in LA. I would like to match in a competitive specialty in LA.

UCLA (Geffen scholar- full tuition + 37k stipend)

Pros:
- very close to friends, family, and partner
- vibe at UCLA seems chill. People seem happy and go to the beach, surf, and play sports
- Weather is amazing
- I want to do residency in Los Angeles and CA residencies favor CA med school students
- similar to point above, i can make connections in LA for future residencies and future jobs
- new curriculum allows for one year to do research or masters within the 4 years which would help match in a competitive specialty
- also new curriculum would allow once a week rotation for a year in any specialty
- Geffen scholarship is a well known merit award
- will finally be able to save money for the first time ever and be comfortable financially (this will be the most money I’ve ever had)

Cons:
- family, friends, partner can also be distractions (may need to support my family more if I stay)
- does not seem to have the academic and career mentoring support that Harvard has (as a first gen this may be important as I discover the “hidden curriculum”)
- NEW curriculum. Literally will be the guinea pig with new one year preclinical
- new curriculum means there will be an overlap between old curriculum students and new student during rotations
- not world renown like Harvard (I’m not sure if this matters but dropped from #6 to #21 in rankings)
- graded clinical rotations

Harvard (full tuition + 20k stipend)

Pros:
- P/F preclinical AND clinical classes
- established curriculum with time built in for extra electives
- great academic support for residency apps
- best medical school in the world opens doors and undeniably will be useful on resume for future jobs (connections)
- will be easier to match into competitive specialties
- will finally feel ~safe~ about my future and family’s future

Cons:
- will be away from family and partner for 4 more years (did long distance in college)
- most students take a 5th year for research or dual degree (I want to start working to support my family ASAP)
- never been outside of CA so will be a hard adjustment
- weather will be an issue
- students seem more stressed
- put more weight on students to teach themselves
- may have a harder time matching specifically in Los Angeles than I would as a UCLA student (?)
- will have at least 50k in loans (which I am still very grateful for)

Thank you so much!

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[Orims]

Based on your comments I would lean towards UCLA. Having your support network and partner be there for you is huge, not to mention the Geffen money is amazing (even though I think ~50k in loans is not that much for HMS, some people got a lot worse financial aid there). Being 2,500 miles away from your support system will definitely be difficult, specially during intense rotations and winter. Also, since you want to match in CA, UCLA will help you be set to easily match in the state into any specialty you want. Sure, HMS might have the world prestige and contacts, but UCLA is a very well recognized institution within CA, which is where you ultimately want to match at.

Given your pros/cons, I feel that UCLA is more for you. Unless HMS was your dream and you would really want to experience 4 - 5 years in Boston and have the Harvard name, I think UCLA is the way to go!

My main gripe about LA is the traffic, but since you are an LA native you are probably used to it. I too am choosing between UCLA and HMS and I am a little afraid to be a "Guinea pig" for the new curriculum, it seems very intense.

 

[Banco]

Your future is "secure" at this point from both schools. Career wise in medicine you will be set. Both have incredible hospital systems and a huge amount of resources for anything you could want. HMS definitely does have a bit of a prestige advantage over UCLA, but the practical difference is negligible - you can match competitive specialties in competitive locations from both schools. Both will have plenty of residency resources, mentorship, research opportunities. One tangible difference is that you will have home-student advantage wherever you go - so it will be easier to go UCLA for residency if you are a UCLA student, and likewise for HMS and Harvard hospitals.


It seems like family is important to you, and you ultimately want to end up for residency near them. For that reason, I'd go with UCLA. That being said, HMS is HMS, and if you feel you want to explore a different location and are okay with the challenges that come with long-distance, then go for it - you won't have issues matching anywhere and can come back to California. Lastly, you will have to take 50k in loans at HMS - if you need money for yourself or family, then this can also be a big factor.


Again, career wise you are set and secure - now you have to make the personal decision.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

If you are sure about NO dual degree go with UCLA.

 

[proudofmykids]

Easy choice, UCLA.
SO is major reason, as well as wanting to be in so cal in the long run! Why pay to not have this?

 

[Lucca]

UCLA. Based on your personal preferences and great financial options at both schools, I agree with others to turn down HMS for the long-term happiness of being where u want to live long term and near ur support system.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Im gonna have to go against the grain here and say HMS. If I were in your position and had the opportunity to go to Harvard Medical School Id take it in a heartbeat. Attending HMS is probably one the biggest honors anyone in this life could possibly have the opportunity to do. Sure UCLA could give you options career wise but to have the option to attend the most elite medical school in the world is something I could never pass up. Its essentially a measley 3 years of your life as fourth year is essentially a vacation/all electives many of which you could easily do in CA if you wanted. As far as money goes youd have a degree from HMS and will easily match into any high paying competitive specialty where youll pay back your loans quickly regardless of the money each school gives you. Congrats on your accomplishments-I would kill to be in your position

 

[theendisnigh]

UCLA for the support system and the fact that you want to match in CA anyway. We only get one life. Why chase a medical school that is on the other side of the country from your family, friends, and lifestyle you want to live? Because the folks at USNWR tell you it's the best? Because it's a household name? So is Nicki Minaj. Take the friends, family, and location you want to live in for the next four years. You WILL be able to match well as a Geffen scholar at UCLA. And you have all the financial incentives to go to UCLA.

Congratulations to you on your choices and your scholarships.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

50k in loans is really nothing in the grand scheme of things.

it’s hard because you don’t know how difficult it would have been for you to be away from this support system since you got into UCLA. Its hard to imagine, but if you didn’t get into UCLA, how upset would you be? A student who was in a slightly similar situation (full COA at t10, rejected post interview at school with close social support system - HMS), explained they didn’t realize how important it was for them to be near this support system until they didn’t have the chance to. After learning they had to move away, they realize they would have paid whatever was necessary to stay near that support system. That helped clarify things for me, and might help clarify things for you as well.

 

[Banco]

UCLA for the support system and the fact that you want to match in CA anyway. We only get one life. Why chase a medical school that is on the other side of the country from your family, friends, and lifestyle you want to live? Because the folks at USNWR tell you it's the best? Because it's a household name? So is Nicki Minaj. Take the friends, family, and location you want to live in for the next four years. You WILL be able to match well as a Geffen scholar at UCLA. And you have all the financial incentives to go to UCLA.

Congratulations to you on your choices and your scholarships.

Waiting for the inevitable HMS vs. Hopkins vs. Nicki Minaj thread.

 

[orthopod123]

Great options and congrats on a super successful cycle! Reading your pros and cons, UCLA is the better short term AND long term choice. Choose UCLA.

 

[wagonwheel23]

You'll be able to match back to LA regardless of which school you attend. I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[wondervisions]

UCLA and it's not particularly close

 

[Lucca]

Im gonna have to go against the grain here and say HMS. If I were in your position and had the opportunity to go to Harvard Medical School Id take it in a heartbeat. Attending HMS is probably one the biggest honors anyone in this life could possibly have the opportunity to do. Sure UCLA could give you options career wise but to have the option to attend the most elite medical school in the world is something I could never pass up. Its essentially a measley 3 years of your life as fourth year is essentially a vacation/all electives many of which you could easily do in CA if you wanted. As far as money goes youd have a degree from HMS and will easily match into any high paying competitive specialty where youll pay back your loans quickly regardless of the money each school gives you. Congrats on your accomplishments-I would kill to be in your position

I can appreciate this perspective, but both HMS and UCLA are going to keep every door in medicine open to you. In fact, I’d probably only really advise to go to HMS if this was an MSTP student aspiring to be a PI one day because that’s a different ballgame in terms of what matters and what institutions can offer you, and on top of that it would still be close because of family / partner.

If there’s anything this past year has taught us is that you should BE HAPPY NOW as much as you possibly can. I love medicine, but medicine ain’t gonna love you back.

 

[deleted1080380]

Im gonna have to go against the grain here and say HMS. If I were in your position and had the opportunity to go to Harvard Medical School Id take it in a heartbeat. Attending HMS is probably one the biggest honors anyone in this life could possibly have the opportunity to do. Sure UCLA could give you options career wise but to have the option to attend the most elite medical school in the world is something I could never pass up. Its essentially a measley 3 years of your life as fourth year is essentially a vacation/all electives many of which you could easily do in CA if you wanted. As far as money goes youd have a degree from HMS and will easily match into any high paying competitive specialty where youll pay back your loans quickly regardless of the money each school gives you. Congrats on your accomplishments-I would kill to be in your position

The marginal difference in post-MD school outcomes or "salary" is not comparable to the well-being and happiness that OP would get from UCLA (seemingly). Maintaining a relationship and having a support system and friends around you is way more important than the 5-second dopamine rush you'll get from telling Jimmy from Target that you went to HMS.

 

[hmsdgsom]

Thank you all so much for your help! I really appreciate every one of you and take all your advice to heart. You have all made me feel more comfortable about leaning towards UCLA. However, now when I speak to people (family, friends, and random doctors/strangers I have reached out to) about how I am favoring UCLA, they think I am crazy or an idiot. They make me feel foolish missing out on a once-in-a-generation opportunity and that I am too immature not sacrificing a few years for the foreverness of HMS on my CV. I have to admit it is really strange seeing the disparity between sdn and outside world advice. It has made me feel even more confused.

 

[lacrossegirl420]

My vote goes to UCLA, though it's definitely close

 

[7summers]

Thank you all so much for your help! I really appreciate every one of you and take all your advice to heart. You have all made me feel more comfortable about leaning towards UCLA. However, now when I speak to people (family, friends, and random doctors/strangers I have reached out to) about how I am favoring UCLA, they think I am crazy or an idiot. They make me feel foolish missing out on a once-in-a-generation opportunity and that I am too immature not sacrificing a few years for the foreverness of HMS on my CV. I have to admit it is really strange seeing the disparity between sdn and outside world advice. It has made me feel even more confused.

Went to a 2nd look weekend where the Dean said something like "Don't let other people outside the world of medicine try to sway you with thoughts/opinions of prestige, they don't understand the system" which makes total sense. They didn't understand the hoops we had to jump through to get here how can we expect them to understand the internal system of "prestige". At the end of the day UCLA and Harvard will get your career to where you want it to be. You are in an extremely fortunate situation to receive not only full tuition but also a stipend to go to HMS (considering how many X v Y threads where admitted students are fraught over the amount of debt for HMS). But that said, UCLA just sounds like the place where your heart lies, take it, run and don't look back.

 

[Banco]

Thank you all so much for your help! I really appreciate every one of you and take all your advice to heart. You have all made me feel more comfortable about leaning towards UCLA. However, now when I speak to people (family, friends, and random doctors/strangers I have reached out to) about how I am favoring UCLA, they think I am crazy or an idiot. They make me feel foolish missing out on a once-in-a-generation opportunity and that I am too immature not sacrificing a few years for the foreverness of HMS on my CV. I have to admit it is really strange seeing the disparity between sdn and outside world advice. It has made me feel even more confused.

Don't let layman's prestige influence your decision making. It's obvious Harvard has more of a "wow" factor just by virtue of its name. You need evaluate the things you value and come to a decision you're happy with.

I really don't think you can go wrong here.

 

[fdgjfg]

One thing I've started to realize as a I'm coming to the end of medical school, is that a lot of these school choices have a hidden metaphysical component. We define ourselves by our academic success, and we define our academic success by our school's name and its barrier-to-entry. You spend so many hours striving and sacrificing that you miss out on life experiences, and what do we have to show for it? So, of course prestige-for-prestige's-sake is involved in anyone's calculation - it provides a tangible artifact that promises to cinch closed the frayed edges of our ontological super-structure. It's like helium in a balloon, in that it fills you up and lets you know who you are. Without it, you might face the horrifying realization that you don't truly know who you are, or what you want, what you've done with your life, or your place in society - a deflated balloon.

However, what I've also realized is that the self-defining power of these admissions checkpoints starts to wane towards the end of medical school. Up until this point, your academic cohort has always operated on the same fundamental logic of desirability. But now, people start to make choices for individualized reasons (e.g. they want to go home; they want to go away; they want to be with a significant other, they want to buy a house). The paths of your peers fracture into a maddeningly granular number of permutations as they select specialties, each with it's own prestige totem poles and hoops to jump through. Consider ophtho, where the most elite programs are .... Miami and Jefferson? And you become so busy making a name and setting off on your own that most of the voices congratulating or doubting you slowly fade away as you see them less, and all that remains are your closest family members/significant other. From this point on, and really continuing down the progression of your career, you're pretty much on your own. Hardly any haters, hardly any congratulators, as you regress into a nondescript sea of static. Whether you like it or not, you'll have to face the question of self-definition without the support of a shiny new acceptance.

All of that's just a pretentious way of saying, it's understandable why you're second guessing, but (1) you need to fundamentally evaluate an ontological question: who am I, what do I want, and how do I get what it is that I do want?; and (2) prestige only has value insofar as it has practical utility - you can't eat prestige. You might want all sorts of things (the excitement of something new; the comfort of something familiar; the thrill of being pushed by the most elite peers; closeness with family; a career in science, and the ideal incubator to support it; west coast connections and career setup). The next step is to practically evaluate the tangible ability of each choice to further YOUR goal. Does the HMS name help you match at a top destination? Yes - likely to a higher degree than DGSOM. But, does HMS help you match back to an LA residency, MORE than DGSOM? No, absolutely not - while the name of the school is valuable, personal relationships between your letter writers/mentors and residency program directors is extremely valuable. The reason that HMS places so well is that its home hospitals are elite programs, and it's intimately associated with other elite programs on the east coast, where those personal recommendations and vouched-for support are huge. The best way to match UCLA, is to go to DGSOM.

To sum up, either one could be the right choice, depending on what it is that you (and you alone) want. In this thread it sounds like your true want is to end up in the place that you love with the people that you love, and not much more than that. It's a simple goal, and it's a good goal - why wait to start your life and pursue the thing you want? While it might feel like it flies in the face of how you've understood yourself in the past, ultimately, soon you'll be answering only to yourself, and your own process of self-definition will have to suffice.

 

[deleted1102289]

Thank you all so much for your help! I really appreciate every one of you and take all your advice to heart. You have all made me feel more comfortable about leaning towards UCLA. However, now when I speak to people (family, friends, and random doctors/strangers I have reached out to) about how I am favoring UCLA, they think I am crazy or an idiot. They make me feel foolish missing out on a once-in-a-generation opportunity and that I am too immature not sacrificing a few years for the foreverness of HMS on my CV. I have to admit it is really strange seeing the disparity between sdn and outside world advice. It has made me feel even more confused.

Please don't worry about the "foreverness of HMS" on your CV. Nothing is forever, and the difference between UCLA and HMS on your CV is negligible. Choose UCLA, it is where YOU want to go and what will make YOU happy. Care about your short term and long term happiness, not the foreverness of HMS on a CV.

 

[Sea Otter]

I’m a final year resident applying for jobs. Have multiple job offers in private practice and academics. None of them cared where I did my medical school. UCLA is a great school and in order to get that prestigious award, you must be a hard worker and you will likely continue to excel in medical school. If your heart says UCLA, that’s your answer.

 

[doktoralya]

None of the people who care about prestige are actually going to be going to medical school -it will be you who attends lectures, crams for exams, enjoys whichever city the med school is at. Don't listen to any of that crap and go where you will thrive as a human. When you are happy, you are going to do the most amazing things regardless of the school name. Listen to your gut -those bacteria really know what's going on