Case Western vs Hofstra

[MedicalStudent888]

Hi all! So today I got off the waitlist at Hofstra, and I have until Friday at 5pm to decide. In late april, I dwindled my current acceptances down to CWRU and stayed on some waitlists with Hofstra turning into an A today. Although I think I know where I should go, I am quite unsure about the decision between Hofstra vs Case and would appreciate any feedback! (thank you @Banco for already giving me some insight 🙂 )

Some info about me, I grew up in NYC and currently live here with my family and have all my close friends in the New York area. However, my mom grew up pretty close to Cleveland and I also have some cousins and extended family close to Cleveland. Fortunately, cost is not a factor for me. I also am not sure what specialty I will pick although surgery (especially orthopedics) is something I am considering. I also am interested in anesthesiology, neurology and EM but am currently very open to exploring most fields.

CWRU
Pros:
- absolutely love the HEC and the facilities at Case
- Cleveland Clinic access, would probably be able to do all my rotations here through a new clerkship program 3rd year
- research is very important to me and Case is a research powerhouse, would love to do some clinical research at Cleveland Clinic and Case's administration seems very good about connecting students to research opportunities throughout Cleveland Clinic and other hospitals
- Incredible match list and T25 prestige (especially with step 1 going P/F this is big concern for me)
- Seems like there is a good sense of community at Case from interview and second visit day, and student body seems very collaborative
- Case-based curriculum is appealing to me, I don't mind the mandatory classes and I loved small group style classes in undergrad
- Pathway programs could allow me to study global health and humanities, which are big interests of mine
- Larger class size which I prefer, more chances to meet friends

Cons:
- Cleveland. I really didn't like the city when I visited and the idea of moving here makes me very anxious especially because I really love living in NYC area now
- Worried about matching back to NYC (although from what I have read, it seems like majority of marches are more likely student preference)
- I dont have any friends in Cleveland right now and the family I do have lives in suburbs 40 mins away, so I am worried I might get lonely and depressed there

Hofstra/Northwell
Pros:
- Would be able to stay in NYC area and even do my clerkships in Manhattan or other NYC hospitals associated with Northwell, such as Lenox Hill in Manhattan
- Northwell is a huge hospital system so I feel like I could find clinical research opportunities through the system (but might be more difficult to get connected)
- I heard that Zucker students having a good chance at matching to Northwell hospitals or other hospitals in NYC area, most students seem to match around NYC area plus they had 100% students match this past year
- Also has case-based learning and EMT training in first block, which sounds really cool
- My close friends and immediate family (and dog) live in NYC so I could see them often
- EMT training as first block is pretty cool
- Seems like there are more global health opportunities available (although I could probably find global health research at either place so this isn't big deal)

Cons:
- Newer school with lower ranking and much less prestige as of right now, so I am worried about how competitive I would be for residency esp if I go into a more competitive specialty in the end
- I would be in Hempstead for first two years at least, which seems like a more suburban boring setting and not very close to NYC by public transit (although only 40 mins driving??)
- Students on interview day didn't seem as enthused about the school compared to Case, didn't get a large sense of community but I have never been to Hempstead or the campus so hard to say for sure
- Smaller class size and seems harder to meet people

Neutrals:
- need to buy car in either school
- mandatory classes at both, honestly fine with this

Overall, I have been trying really hard to get excited about Case and all the opportunities I would have there but I feel even more anxious now about the move to Cleveland. I really love Case’s immediate campus, the sense of community in the school, the curriculum and the access to Cleveland Clinic but beyond that, I am not sure how happy I would be in Cleveland. People keep telling me I wont have much of a life outside medical school and research anyway so I shouldn’t be too worried about the location, but I am very stressed. Any insights is appreciated!!

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[GravityAndAcorns]

Don't really have any advice but just came to say I'm also finding it hard to be excited about Cleveland. I feel like I'm giving up something by leaving the city I currently live in and really worried about matching back in the future. Case's opportunities are amazing, but something in my heart hurts about the possibility of going to Cleveland and potentially staying there longer if needed.

 

[P_Kloud]

I think this depends a lot on your priorities. If you really value being in NY and being close to your family, then I would lean towards Hofstra. I think if you really value prestige and having absolutely every single leg up for matching into competitive specialties or competitive locations, I would lean towards Case. You can still match into competitive residencies from Hofstra, you might just have to work harder than if you went to Case.

 

[armaragon]

With your Pros/cons, definitely Hostra.

 

[GravityAndAcorns]

I wouldn't worry too much about matching back to NY! Case provides a lot of opportunities to do well in med school in terms of research and general support system. The specialties you may be interested in (neurology, anesthesiology, etc.) can be quite competitive so Case is much better in terms of career goals in my opinion. Have you compared the match lists between the two schools?

In terms of friends, I think most people don't come into med school with many friends. The community at Case seems incredibly welcoming and I'm sure you'll make friends through the shared struggle that is med school. But, if you know yourself well and close friends and family are necessary for you to succeed, then I would choose Hosftra. Just don't rule out Case yet because no matter where you go, I'm sure you'll make lifelong friends in med school!

Also, just a side note, SDN has a lot of people on WLs for schools you may have an A at so take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[hopefulmd987]

LOL full disclosure that I'm on the Hofstra waitlist but I just have to say.. I think it's hilarious that the two posters telling you to "definitely/really" pick Hofstra are on the Case waitlists loool soooo much conflict of interest

Anyway, like the other response here, this decision does depend 100% on your priorities. The two have very different pros/cons, which you know best, so just think about what you prioritize more: lifestyle during med school (being in NYC, being close to family/friends) vs. prestige/being more competitive for residency. To add to one of your points, I personally wouldn't be worried about matching into a residency of your preferred location if you choose to go to Case, especially with the prestige of the med school becoming a more important factor with step1 going P/F.

That said, I'm sure you know this already, but just so you can be reminded again...! I don't think you should think of it as completely giving up on one aspect when you choose one school. You won't be cut off from your friends/family if you choose to go to Case and will be able to find a new community for support, and you also won't be giving up on successful career prospects or being competitive for residency if you choose to go to Hofstra. You will be able to balance both with either of your choices, although one aspect will become something you have to work harder for. Congrats on your acceptances, and good luck!

 

[hopefulmd987]

I wouldn't worry too much about matching back to NY! Case provides a lot of opportunities to do well in med school in terms of research and general support system. The specialties you may be interested in (neurology, anesthesiology, etc.) can be quite competitive so Case is much better in terms of career goals in my opinion. Have you compared the match lists between the two schools?

In terms of friends, I think most people don't come into med school with many friends. The community at Case seems incredibly welcoming and I'm sure you'll make friends through the shared struggle that is med school. But, if you know yourself well and close friends and family are necessary for you to succeed, then I would choose Hosftra. Just don't rule out Case yet because no matter where you go, I'm sure you'll make lifelong friends in med school!

Also, just a side note, SDN has a lot of people on WLs for schools you may have an A at so take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt.

HAHA that last comment! you posted just a few seconds before I posted

 

[GravityAndAcorns]

LOL full disclosure that I'm on the Hofstra waitlist but I just have to say.. I think it's hilarious that the two posters telling you to "definitely/really" pick Hofstra are on the Case waitlists loool soooo much conflict of interest

HAHA that last comment! you posted just a few seconds before I posted

LOL Dude honestly read my mind!!! I only came back to post because I recognized some of the usernames from school-specific threads.

Y'all on here are terrible for trying to push someone towards a different school for your own benefit. Even if you think the other school is better, at least disclose you're on the WL.

 

[hopefulmd987]

LOL Dude honestly read my mind!!! I only came back to post because I recognized some of the usernames from school-specific threads.

Y'all on here are terrible for trying to push someone towards a different school for your own benefit. Even if you think the other school is better, at least disclose you're on the WL.

OMG ONE OF THEM DELETED THEIR COMMENT

 

[MedicalStudent888]

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful replies and kind words, I really appreciate it!

I have been reflecting a lot and am going to think it over more the next few days until deadline, but I think my heart/head (as well as my advisors and parents lol) are leaning towards Case right now since I am considering more competitive specialties and I have adapted pretty well to other living environments throughout my life and been okay. Change is always scary but I am going to try to be more of an optimist, embrace the opportunities, and immerse myself as much as possible in Case's community.

 

[wallstreetbroke]

Thank you all so much for the thoughtful replies and kind words, I really appreciate it!

I have been reflecting a lot and am going to think it over more the next few days until deadline, but I think my heart/head (as well as my advisors and parents lol) are leaning towards Case right now since I am considering more competitive specialties and I have adapted pretty well to other living environments throughout my life and been okay. Change is always scary but I am going to try to be more of an optimist, embrace the opportunities, and immerse myself as much as possible in Case's community.

In disagreeing with the other poster, Cleveland is a great environment and city btw. You get a national park, a big lake, and a huge mix of urban and suburban and even rural sections. Most people that hate on Cleveland have never been

 

[MedicalStudent888]

@KnightDoc any t

In disagreeing with the other poster, Cleveland is a great environment and city btw. You get a national park, a big lake, and a huge mix of urban and suburban and even rural sections. Most people that hate on Cleveland have never been

thanks for advice! I did visit Cleveland a few weeks ago and honestly didn't love it which is why I think it made me anxious about moving there. However if I do go there, I love the outdoors and would love to do more exploring to different areas and national parks once I get a car!

 

[KnightDoc]

In disagreeing with the other poster, Cleveland is a great environment and city btw. You get a national park, a big lake, and a huge mix of urban and suburban and even rural sections. Most people that hate on Cleveland have never been

THIS^^^^^^.

I'm not a huge Cleveland fan by any stretch, but pretty much most inner cities that have bad reps have them on account of urban decay in the 1970s. Most big cities have made huge comebacks since then, and really have a lot to offer, including Cleveland.

In any case (pun intended!), I understand how people from NY think it's the center of the universe, because in many ways it is. Even so, the comparison between Case, with its rep, ranking, the new HEC and the Cleveland Clinic next door, and Hofstra, a new suburban NY school, isn't even close, so there is no reason to discuss it.

If you are so in love with NY that the thought of being away for 4 years is unbearable, you have your decision. Otherwise, you know what you have to do! They are both US MD programs that can get you where you are going, but Case and Hofstra are not in the same tier, so, if money isn't a factor, there is just nothing to discuss if you are focused on where you will receive the best training.

 

[wondervisions]

Hofstra.

Disclosure: current Case student.

 

[wondervisions]

THIS^^^^^^.

I'm not a huge Cleveland fan by any stretch, but pretty much most inner cities that have bad reps have them on account of urban decay in the 1970s. Most big cities have made huge comebacks since then, and really have a lot to offer, including Cleveland.

In any case (pun intended!), I understand how people from NY think it's the center of the universe, because in many ways it is. Even so, the comparison between Case, with its rep, ranking, the new HEC and the Cleveland Clinic next door, and Hofstra, a new suburban NY school, isn't even close, so there is no reason to discuss it.

If you are so in love with NY that the thought of being away for 4 years is unbearable, you have your decision. Otherwise, you know what you have to do! They are both US MD programs that can get you where you are going, but Case and Hofstra are not in the same tier, so, if money isn't a factor, there is just nothing to discuss if you are focused on where you will receive the best training.

Case will not provide better training than Hofstra.

 

[wallstreetbroke]

Case will not provide better training than Hofstra.

OP, it is clear that you prefer Hofstra. Please make the right choice and go there.

Lmao you just fail an exam or something at case? Why the resentment towards your own school

 

[MedicalStudent888]

Case will not provide better training than Hofstra.

OP, it is clear that you prefer Hofstra. Please make the right choice and go there.

Have you had negative experiences at Case? I actually think I prefer Case as a school and think I'd fit much better there (which is why I am currently strongly leaning towards CWRU), I am more worried about location.

And is there a reason why you say Case and Hofstra would provide the same level of training?

Thanks for your input!

 

[GravityAndAcorns]

Case will not provide better training than Hofstra.

Can you please explain this part? I am also considering other schools and leaning very heavily towards Case. Happy to PM if that works better for you

 

[KnightDoc]

Can you please explain this part? I am also considering other schools and leaning very heavily towards Case. Happy to PM if that works better for you

If you take a look at the post history, it seems as though there is almost always a bias towards the lower ranked school, regardless of tier, location etc. UF over Emory, UNC over Michigan or Vandy, Dell over Baylor, Hopkins over Harvard, UCLA over Harvard, Wake Forest over Yale, UVA over Case, etc., etc., etc. Makes one wonder why he chose Case in the first place, since it's not the least expensive, lowest ranked school in the country!! 😎

I get that this person seems to think nothing is more important than money, so always just pick the least expensive option, but that just does not apply to everyone. There really are some things that are more important than money, especially for people entering training for a career that is going to set them up to be in the top 1% for the rest of their lives.

I also get that OP loves NY, and Cleveland is certainly not NY. OP is either going to get past that and realize that this is professional training, not a 4 year vacation, and that Cleveland is not Afghanistan, or OP will stick with the tried and true and go to Hofstra, which will also not be the end of the world.

 

[wallstreetbroke]

Can you please explain this part? I am also considering other schools and leaning very heavily towards Case. Happy to PM if that works better for you

Clinicals at #2 hospital in the country = garbage is the explanation 🤪

 

[wondervisions]

Lmao you just fail an exam or something at case? Why the resentment towards your own school

No resentment here. I am perfectly happy with my time at Case. I just think it's a tragedy that students will so often choose a school that is a worse fit for them simply because of the USNWR ranking.

Can you please explain this part? I am also considering other schools and leaning very heavily towards Case. Happy to PM if that works better for you

I don't know what else to say other than there is no evidence that any particular school will provide a better medical education than any other school. USNWR rankings do not take into account the quality of the medical education. The name brand or prestige of a school essentially has zero bearing on the quality of education you will receive.

Let me flip the question around: what evidence do others have that Case will provide a better medical education than Hofstra? In my opinion, the quality of your medical education will come down to your personal work ethic and luck of the draw when it comes to attendings and residents you are matched with in 3rd and 4th year.

I went to a top-20 undergrad and the professors who had the biggest name recognition were more often than not absolutely trash at teaching.

I always think that students should go to the school where they will be happiest and makes financial sense. Unless you are interested in neurosurgery/ortho/derm and nothing else, there's not a compelling reason to choose Case here.

 

[wondervisions]

If you take a look at the post history, it seems as though there is almost always a bias towards the lower ranked school, regardless of tier, location etc. UF over Emory, UNC over Michigan or Vandy, Dell over Baylor, Hopkins over Harvard, UCLA over Harvard, Wake Forest over Yale, UVA over Case, etc., etc., etc. Makes one wonder why he chose Case in the first place, since it's not the least expensive, lowest ranked school in the country!! 😎

I get that this person seems to think nothing is more important than money, so always just pick the least expensive option, but that just does not apply to everyone. There really are some things that are more important than money, especially for people entering training for a career that is going to set them up to be in the top 1% for the rest of their lives.

I also get that OP loves NY, and Cleveland is certainly not NY. OP is either going to get past that and realize that this is professional training, not a 4 year vacation, and that Cleveland is not Afghanistan, or OP will stick with the tried and true and go to Hofstra, which will also not be the end of the world.

I am happy to be the one to balance out the discussion and make students consider the bigger picture other than just rankings and prestige. It's important that you are happy and well supported in order to succeed in medical school. Massive amounts of debt also terrifies me- I think there is a lot of risk when it comes to hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that kids in their 20's have a hard time grasping.

 

[KnightDoc]

No resentment here. I am perfectly happy with my time at Case. I just think it's a tragedy that students will so often choose a school that is a worse fit for them simply because of the USNWR ranking.



I don't know what else to say other than there is no evidence that any particular school will provide a better medical education than any other school. USNWR rankings do not take into account the quality of the medical education. The name brand or prestige of a school essentially has zero bearing on the quality of education you will receive.

Let me flip the question around: what evidence do others have that Case will provide a better medical education than Hofstra? In my opinion, the quality of your medical education will come down to your personal work ethic and luck of the draw when it comes to attendings and residents you are matched with in 3rd and 4th year.

I went to a top-20 undergrad and the professors who had the biggest name recognition were more often than not absolutely trash at teaching.

I always think that students should go to the school where they will be happiest and makes financial sense. Unless you are interested in neurosurgery/ortho/derm and nothing else, there's not a compelling reason to choose Case here.

All of this makes a lot of sense. So, maybe it will seem stupid of me to ask, but, what compelled you to choose a T20 UG, and after your experience with trash name brand professors, why did you learn nothing from that and again choose a T20ish med school when there are so many lower ranked, less expensive alternatives?

 

[wondervisions]

All of this makes a lot of sense. So, maybe it will seem stupid of me to ask, but, what compelled you to choose a T20 UG, and after your experience with trash name brand professors, why did you learn nothing from that and again choose a T20ish med school when there are so many lower ranked, less expensive alternatives?

Answered via PM.

In general, I am not saying that one should never choose Case or any T-20 school. I am simply encouraging students to consider the bigger picture of fit, location, money, etc.

 

[KnightDoc]

Answered via PM.

In general, I am not saying that one should never choose Case or any T-20 school. I am simply encouraging students to consider the bigger picture of fit, location, money, etc.

You're right!! If OP will be homesick in Cleveland, Hofstra is the right choice. Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would choose a newish school in the NY suburbs over a T20ish nationally renowned school connected to the Cleveland Clinic.

 

[MedicalStudent888]

thank you all for input, I really appreciate it.

@KnightDoc I agree choosing a newer school with less prestige / resources would be a foolish choice for my career esp since Case has so much to offer with regards to research and Cleveland Clinic connection. I also think that overtime I would be able to find things I love about Cleveland once I break out of my comfort zone and make new friends / mentors. I am just more nervous about my mental health moving away from NYC and my support system especially with the difficulties of med school. However, I also realize Hofstra is more of a suburban campus so I wouldn't be very close to the city anyway which is a big reason why I am leaning very heavily towards Case

@wondervisions thanks for offering another perspective esp as a current student! I actually am strongly considering orthopedics which is why I am also leaning towards Case. I also really like the HEC facilities and the vibe at Case from the students / administration vs. Hofstra. Do you mind if I PM you with some questions about your experiences at Case?

 

[wondervisions]

thank you all for input, I really appreciate it.

@KnightDoc I agree choosing a newer school with less prestige / resources would be a foolish choice for my career esp since Case has so much to offer with regards to research and Cleveland Clinic connection. I also think that overtime I would be able to find things I love about Cleveland once I break out of my comfort zone and make new friends / mentors. I am just more nervous about my mental health moving away from NYC and my support system especially with the difficulties of med school. However, I also realize Hofstra is more of a suburban campus so I wouldn't be very close to the city anyway which is a big reason why I am leaning very heavily towards Case

@wondervisions thanks for offering another perspective esp as a current student! I actually am strongly considering orthopedics which is why I am also leaning towards Case. I also really like the HEC facilities and the vibe at Case from the students / administration vs. Hofstra. Do you mind if I PM you with some questions about your experiences at Case?

Please do PM me!

 

[MedicalStudent888]

Hi all,

After long reflections this week, I will be picking Case Western! Thank you all for the input, I am feeling good about this decision in the end and am going to try to embrace all the opportunities ahead of me 🙂

 

[Caligirlzz]

Hi all,

After long reflections this week, I will be picking Case Western! Thank you all for the input, I am feeling good about this decision in the end and am going to try to embrace all the opportunities ahead of me 🙂

Last thing...if you’re looking to match a particular surg sub-specialty, Case just lost their accreditation and the whole program is being disbanded. 13 residents need to find new homes, most in different cities. Please look closely at this. Good luck!

 

[wallstreetbroke]

Last thing...if you’re looking to match a particular surg sub-specialty, Case just lost their accreditation and the whole program is being disbanded. 13 residents need to find new homes, most in different cities. Please look closely at this. Good luck!

Not seeing any news of this upon looking it up

 

[GravityAndAcorns]

Last thing...if you’re looking to match a particular surg sub-specialty, Case just lost their accreditation and the whole program is being disbanded. 13 residents need to find new homes, most in different cities. Please look closely at this. Good luck!

Do you mind sharing where you found this information?

 

[wallstreetbroke]

Do you mind sharing where you found this information?

ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

change status to withdrawn when searching for case western. I’m honestly surprised. CCF’s program is still intact I think and actually expanded their numbers

 

[Caligirlzz]

Can a residency regain the accreditation after losing it?

A neurosurgery program in Puerto Rico just lost its accreditation after being on probation for years. What's next for the residents in that program? I am just curious Do they still be able to graduate and be board certified?

forums.studentdoctor.net

not saying Case is a bad school at all, I'm sure it's great.....just that the plastics division led students on