How much do you save/invest every year?

[finalpsychyear]

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You won't even work PT (at least 2 times a week)?

2030 plan is to start PT. Lets see how the market goes.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

That is impressive. How are you able to achieve that given how expensive things are now. Is you salary > 1M per year?

Combination of things. Bought a house well within our means at around 3% early in attendinghood. Living minimalistic when my buy in loan was >$10k/mo. Despite the recent home improvement stuff, spouse is also pretty frugal (think I’ve mentioned getting a used Honda was considered lifestyle creep when the last car died). Still look for sales and use coupons.

But yeah, I’m >$1M these days and that’s obviously big.

 

[Splenda88]

It's been a disappointing year a little bit. The goal for 2025 was 150k but I am probably gonna end up being 5k short. Gotta tell my wife no more 1k/night hotel when we travel. I also spent ~30k replacing a roof in one of my investment properties.

I also make 71k less than I made last year (383k vs 454k).

 

[finalpsychyear]

It's been a disappointing year a little bit. The goal for 2025 was 150k but I am probably gonna end up being 5k short. Gotta tell my wife no more 1k/night hotel when we travel. I also spent ~30 replacing a roof in one of my investment properties.

I also make 71k less than I made last year (383k vs 454k).

145 vs 150 goal is great man.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

It's been a disappointing year a little bit. The goal for 2025 was 150k but I am probably gonna end up being 5k short. Gotta tell my wife no more 1k/night hotel when we travel. I also spent ~30k replacing a roof in one of my investment properties.

I also make 71k less than I made last year (383k vs 454k).

You nearly hit your goal despite making less and having an unforeseen capital expense.

That’s pretty goshdarn good, embrace it. You still put away nearly 40% of your income (unclear if pre or post tax). If that $383k was pretax, *whistle*

 

[eyeeye_captain]

I had a great financial literacy moment with some of my staff yesterday, very proud of them. Our 401k plan changed a little, and not only did they bother to read the changes and ask about them, they’re maxing out their matches. Young, asked about the more aggressive funds. Cool to see.

 

[Splenda88]

You nearly hit your goal despite making less and having an unforeseen capital expense.

That’s pretty goshdarn good, embrace it. You still put away nearly 40% of your income (unclear if pre or post tax). If that $383k was pretax, *whistle*

Pretax

 

[eyeeye_captain]

Pretax

In a state with a median income tax rate, you put away >50% of that, and it’s around 60% if not for the roof.

 

[Splenda88]

In a state with a median income tax rate, you put away >50% of that, and it’s around 60% if not for the roof.

it's ~49% since I paid ~88k in taxes overall.

 

[thumbz]

Literally @Splenda88 you still hit an incredible savings rate well done. Did you decide you wanted to cut back on the extra work a little or did your extra shifts dry up?

 

[dpmd]

It's been a disappointing year a little bit. The goal for 2025 was 150k but I am probably gonna end up being 5k short. Gotta tell my wife no more 1k/night hotel when we travel. I also spent ~30k replacing a roof in one of my investment properties.

I also make 71k less than I made last year (383k vs 454k).

Eh, will the 5k make that much difference that you really want to have that discussion (or make that edict if that is how your relationship works)?

 

[Nocturnist]

it's ~49% since I paid ~88k in taxes overall.

Curious how you pay so little in taxes?

Assuming you deduct 23.5k for retirement and you live in GA, you should be paying 90k just in federal taxes and close to 130k overall.

In your 150k saving rate I'm assuming you're including your retirement contributions? Are you including the portion of your mortgage that went to your home equity as well?

 

[Splenda88]

Literally @Splenda88 you still hit an incredible savings rate well done. Did you decide you wanted to cut back on the extra work a little or did your extra shifts dry up?

Unfortunately, shifts have dried up.

 

[Splenda88]

Curious how you pay so little in taxes?

Assuming you deduct 23.5k for retirement and you live in GA, you should be paying 90k just in federal taxes and close to 130k overall.

In your 150k saving rate I'm assuming you're including your retirement contributions? Are you including the portion of your mortgage that went to your home equity as well?

View attachment 413041

I have 2 dependents. IRS might ask me to return some $$$.

I do include retirement contributions (401k, roth 401k, HSA)

I do NOT include portion of my mortgage that went to home equity.

Fed tax: 55.1k
Medicare: 5.3K
Med surtax: 1.5k
State tax: 16. 0
Social security: 11.0k

 

[Splenda88]

Eh, will the 5k make that much difference that you really want to have that discussion (or make that edict if that is how your relationship works)?

I was being tongue-in-cheek.

I will probably spend 25k next year going to world cup games.

 

[dpmd]

I was being tongue-in-cheek.

I will probably spend 25k next year going to world cup games.

Ah ok.

 

[thumbz]

I was being tongue-in-cheek.

I will probably spend 25k next year going to world cup games.

I have made the (un)fortunate decision to build a garage house next year so I anticipate my savings rapidly approaching zero for the forseeable future... but I too am planning to spend at least $15-$20k going to some F1 races. You only live once haha.

I'll update my totals/taxes in a week when I get my final paycheck, but rough numbers:

Gross: $450k
401k + employer: $55k
Savings: $80k

I made the delightful decision to drop $130k on a car however, which cut rather heavily into my savings rate.

 

[Splenda88]

I have made the (un)fortunate decision to build a garage house next year so I anticipate my savings rapidly approaching zero for the forseeable future... but I too am planning to spend at least $15-$20k going to some F1 races. You only live once haha.

I'll update my totals/taxes in a week when I get my final paycheck, but rough numbers:

Gross: $450k
401k + employer: $55k
Savings: $80k

I made the delightful decision to drop $130k on a car however, which cut rather heavily into my savings rate.

Why is garage stroke out?

How much that house will cost?

 

[thumbz]

Hah I'm building an 1800 sq ft garage attached to a 2600 sq ft house, so my realtor and builder joke that I'm building a garage that happens to have a house attached to it.

My budget is $1.2 mil, I'd like to try to keep it far south of that. With my current home equity, savings and projected 2026 earnings my plan is to not have more than a $750k mortgage. My bank is going to do a 15 yr at 5.5%

 

[Splenda88]

Hah I'm building an 1800 sq ft garage attached to a 2600 sq ft house, so my realtor and builder joke that I'm building a garage that happens to have a house attached to it.

My budget is $1.2 mil, I'd like to try to keep it far south of that. With my current home equity, savings and projected 2026 earnings my plan is to not have more than a $750k mortgage. My bank is going to do a 15 yr at 5.5%

WTH?

I know you are into cars. How many cars do you want to fit in that garage? What reselling will look like if you want to someday? My whole house (without the garage) is just a little bit bigger than that garage?

 

[dpmd]

WTH?

I know you are into cars. How many cars do you want to fit in that garage? What reselling will look like if you want to someday? My whole house (without the garage) is just a little bit bigger than that garage?

Maybe he wants workshop, storage, and flexible use space in there?

 

[thumbz]

It's gonna be a 6 car garage with a vehicle lift, epoxy floors, fully heated and cooled and a ton of space for any other hobbies I (or someone else) may take up some day. I'm up in the northwest part of the US and people up here love their shops thankfully haha

 

[Splenda88]

It's gonna be a 6 car garage with a vehicle lift, epoxy floors, fully heated and cooled and a ton of space for any other hobbies I (or someone else) may take up some day. I'm up in the northwest part of the US and people up here love their shops thankfully haha

Be careful. If I remember correctly, you had a divorce that was not too favorable to you.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

Anybody else’s withholding seem abnormally high this year? I got my last W2 check and was looking it over before my K1 comes in, and I’ll be darned if my gross hasn’t been withheld >1% over the highest bracket for the entire thing.

I’ve usually been more or less spot on in previous years, but I guess I’m getting a nice spring windfall.

 

[percyeye]

Combination of things. Bought a house well within our means at around 3% early in attendinghood. Living minimalistic when my buy in loan was >$10k/mo. Despite the recent home improvement stuff, spouse is also pretty frugal (think I’ve mentioned getting a used Honda was considered lifestyle creep when the last car died). Still look for sales and use coupons.

But yeah, I’m >$1M these days and that’s obviously big.

After you bought in and you had your business loan. I assume your yearly income went up, but did you aggressively pay off the business loan or use the extra income for savings/retirement?

I also had a substantial buy in, but the interest rate was at 3.5%, and then saw a large increase in income. I mentally go back and fort between aggressively paying it down, but I've been doing a bit of 50/50 of paying it down vs investing. The returns have been so good the past 5 years that I have a heard time peeling off money from investing, even though it will be nice one day to have my business loan gone.

 

[dpmd]

After you bought in and you had your business loan. I assume your yearly income went up, but did you aggressively pay off the business loan or use the extra income for savings/retirement?

I also had a substantial buy in, but the interest rate was at 3.5%, and then saw a large increase in income. I mentally go back and fort between aggressively paying it down, but I've been doing a bit of 50/50 of paying it down vs investing. The returns have been so good the past 5 years that I have a heard time peeling off money from investing, even though it will be nice one day to have my business loan gone.

I wouldn't pay down a loan at 3.5%

 

[percyeye]

I wouldn't pay down a loan at 3.5%

I'm really not that bothered by debt, and I fully understand why not paying down a 3.5% note can be a good idea. But my monthly payments are ~$8000 a month, and having that freed up for cash flow would be nice. I also have a mortgage and some student loans at ~2.85% (Thanks Covid), and have no intention of paying those off quickly.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

After you bought in and you had your business loan. I assume your yearly income went up, but did you aggressively pay off the business loan or use the extra income for savings/retirement?

I also had a substantial buy in, but the interest rate was at 3.5%, and then saw a large increase in income. I mentally go back and fort between aggressively paying it down, but I've been doing a bit of 50/50 of paying it down vs investing. The returns have been so good the past 5 years that I have a heard time peeling off money from investing, even though it will be nice one day to have my business loan gone.

I paid aggressively, and I would again. The circumstances were different though.

Income doubled, which was cool. But this was in the COVID craziness where nobody knew what the market/economy would do even more so than usual, my rate was almost double yours, and the loan amount was 150% of my mortgage. Spouse was immediately going bankrupt if something happened to me. When I say the loan was >$10k a month, that’s not hyperbole - that was the minimum.

I’m already debt averse, so to me it was pretty straightforward at the time. In hindsight I could’ve made more money with how the markets have been, but that’s hindsight.

I still maxed out tax advantaged stuff like 401k and 529 at least.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

I'm really not that bothered by debt, and I fully understand why not paying down a 3.5% note can be a good idea. But my monthly payments are ~$8000 a month, and having that freed up for cash flow would be nice. I also have a mortgage and some student loans at ~2.85% (Thanks Covid), and have no intention of paying those off quickly.

My bro or sis in eyes, how on earth did you wind up with an $8k note?

You’ve said previously you’re rural so what could have been the valuation to do what would be like a >$1.5M 30 year mortgage payment? This seems crazy high for the business.

 

[dpmd]

I paid aggressively, and I would again. The circumstances were different though.

Income doubled, which was cool. But this was in the COVID craziness where nobody knew what the market/economy would do even more so than usual, my rate was almost double yours, and the loan amount was 150% of my mortgage. Spouse was immediately going bankrupt if something happened to me. When I say the loan was >$10k a month, that’s not hyperbole - that was the minimum.

I’m already debt averse, so to me it was pretty straightforward at the time. In hindsight I could’ve made more money with how the markets have been, but that’s hindsight.

I still maxed out tax advantaged stuff like 401k and 529 at least.

Could have protected your wife by adequate insurance instead

 

[percyeye]

My bro or sis in eyes, how on earth did you wind up with an $8k note?

You’ve said previously you’re rural so what could have been the valuation to do what would be like a >$1.5M 30 year mortgage payment? This seems crazy high for the business.

I'm an Optometrist in a rural location that bought a practice for a bit over $1 million and I'm trying to pay off the note in about 12 years. My income went from $160,000 to almost $600,000 a year working ~4 days a week now. We've been able to hire some associates.

With the extra income I've been able to build real estate >$1 million, and now I own part of a whole sale optical lab that throws off income.

I get a bigger thrill from saving/investing and buying businesses than paying down debt. Even though I'd love to have that payment gone. Also as you said I'm more rural, so cost of living here is quite low, which helps with savings.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

I'm an Optometrist in a rural location that bought a practice for a bit over $1 million and I'm trying to pay off the note in about 12 years. My income went from $160,000 to almost $600,000 a year working ~4 days a week now. We've been able to hire some associates.

With the extra income I've been able to build real estate >$1 million, and now I own part of a whole sale optical lab that throws off income.

I get a bigger thrill from saving/investing and buying businesses than paying down debt. Even though I'd love to have that payment gone. Also as you said I'm more rural, so cost of living here is quite low, which helps with savings.

So the loan was also for real estate and inventory? That makes more sense, because that would be an insane amount if you were going on collections alone.

Nothing wrong with playing the game. I’ve had lowish risk tolerance previously but am aggressive with my investments now.

 

[percyeye]

So the loan was also for real estate and inventory? That makes more sense, because that would be an insane amount if you were going on collections alone.

Nothing wrong with playing the game. I’ve had lowish risk tolerance previously but am aggressive with my investments now.

No the loan was just for the practice. The real estate is a separate purchase. It is not uncommon for large practices to sell for over $1 million for just the practice. Private Equity is paying 3-4x that amount for these same practices. I'd expect this to be the same or similar for an Ophthalmology practice.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

No the loan was just for the practice. The real estate is a separate purchase. It is not uncommon for large practices to sell for over $1 million for just the practice. Private Equity is paying 3-4x that amount for these same practices. I'd expect this to be the same or similar for an Ophthalmology practice.

Yikes, I think you got taken for a ride.

Not really, if hard assets are off the table then it’s collections based. Most ophthalmology practices I’ve been around, you usually pay about what a year’s post-overhead gross would be when you own, so I think you paid around double what you should have. Clearly a profitable practice at least.

But yes, PE will pay a multiplier. Less typical when it’s a PP sale.

 

[percyeye]

Yikes, I think you got taken for a ride.

Not really, if hard assets are off the table then it’s collections based. Most ophthalmology practices I’ve been around, you usually pay about what a year’s post-overhead gross would be when you own, so I think you paid around double what you should have. Clearly a profitable practice at least.

But yes, PE will pay a multiplier. Less typical when it’s a PP sale.

It is pretty typical in the Optometry world to purchase a practice at 60-70% of gross collections for the practice. Most sales will be in that ballpark when you have private buyers, and that is the ballpark I bought it. And then PE will pay much more. So if a practice collects $1 million it would most likely sell for $600-$700K.

Based on regular small business sales it is actually a decent deal. Most small businesses with a SDE (owner take home) will have a multiple of 3-4x SDE.

Here are some Optometry listings and what they are priced out for: Optometry Practices For Sale - Visionary Practice Group

 

[Nocturnist]

Here's my 2025 state of the union.

Income was 475k this year- the first time I've ever made less than 500k. I've cut down significantly to around 11 scheduled shifts a month, and a few short evening admitting shifts. Spouse stayed at home all year, but will be going back to work this summer when all the kids are in day care with a 150k earning potential. Flip side is an additional 3k a month in daycare.

50k cash.
2.5M invested (1.4 in retirement, 1.1 in taxable).
1.7M in home equity (1.2 in primary home, 550k in vacation home. 400k @2.75% left on primary, 425k at 2.5% left on second)

Virtually nothing saved beyond the ~40k between maxing my 403b and employer contribution, and the roughly 110k out of the 160k yearly mortgage payments going towards my premium. We renovated the beach house master bath at 35k, and took 2 long family vacations at around 10k each; that came out the cash reserves.

Nw went up about 250k this year- Despite crypto down 25% and home values dipping around 5-7% (this usually happens in the northeast during the winter, but not to this degree).

Few observations at this NW:
-Saving becomes virtually meaningless at this point. For example, my 2.5M invested will grow to 16.8M @10% in 20 years if I dont save another penny. On the other hand it'll only grow to 19.2M if I put the 40k a year in retirement every year til then.
-Protecting the investment accounts is the only goal. I dont care so much what I make now a days rather than making sure I just make enough to cover my expenses so I can let my money grow. For the first time in my career, I feel comfortable turning down moonlighting and just relaxing at home with my family.
-6 figures daily movements in NW are extremely common and not for the faint of heart. It took going and holding through a couple big down turns to learn to tune out the noise.
-it's not worth my time looking at price tags or shopping around for 4 figures items or less. A few k here and there on the credit card statement won't move the needle. If the bill is high that month, I'll moonlight a little more aggressively.
-outsource absolutely everything I can. babysitting, landscaping, housekeeping, snowplowing, laundry. Nobody can parent or exercise for me, the rest I'll happily pay for.

Home will be paid off in 5 years and kids will be in public school by then. Expenses will go down by 10k a month when both happen. Plan is to then reduce by one shift a month every year until 10 years from now I'm down to 5 nights a month- the minimum part time to keep my benefits. At that point, second home will be paid off too- reducing expenses by another 4k. Likely also stop contributing to 529 by then too.

Sorry for the long post. Hope you're all enjoying your holidays and happy new year!

 

[eyeeye_captain]

Got my K1s. I prefer to think of things from a post tax perspective. My withholding was wonky this year, so with a calculator I think after my refund my numbers will be:

W2/K1: $715k
401k: $45k

 

[thumbz]

Happy New Year all!

2025 was a good year for me all things considered. So I'm a regular old run of the mill hospitalist who works around a 1.3 FTE with my extra shifts.

W2: $454,000
Net: $259,000

Savings:
401k/Pension/HSA: $57,500
Taxable savings: $84,000

Savings rate of NET income: 55% (I find targeting your savings rate off of gross income to be silly - we all have vastly different tax situations)

Current overall savings:
Taxable: $375k
Retirement: $640k
Home Equity: $200k

This year I decided life isn't all about some retirement promised land so I decided to live a little more - this led to buying a $300k Lamborghini which I love. I've come to realize enjoying things when I'm 36 and healthy seems like a better idea that setting myself up to do the same at 55 with the health part being a big ole question mark.

Going into 2026 my plan is to build a house - my current place was a renovation/flip that I got to keep myself busy peri-divorce, and now that it's done I'm bored. So my next adventure is going to be trying my hand at building. My plan is to put however much down I need to end up with the house I want and a $750k mortgage (for tax reasons for you keen eyed folks). I'm looking at doing a 15 yr loan at 5-5.5% giving me a post tax effective interest rate around 3%.

2026 looks to be a great year income wise - we are changing how we do our quality bonuses but thanks to overlap from my shop changing their fiscal year accounting I'm anticipating making right around $500k this next year. Assuming it all works out that should allow me to have $200k extra for the new house down payment and then the equity I pull out of my current house. I have no care to ever be a landlord. Best case I keep my build costs reasonable (planning for $1.0 mil even) and can throw a bunch into my taxable investments.

 

[Monocles]

If the market doesn't crash wildly at tomorrow's opening then I'm calling 2025 an unexpectedly successful year financially.

I think my retirement went from 810k to 1.1m this year with 100k contributions, so basically 180k ish in market gains which is not bad considering tariffs and all the other macro uncertainties. If you had told me the sp500 would be around 6900 by EOY during Liberation Day I would not have believed it. But somehow the vibes feel less than euphoric...

 

[thumbz]

If the market doesn't crash wildly at tomorrow's opening then I'm calling 2025 an unexpectedly successful year financially.

I think my retirement went from 810k to 1.1m this year with 100k contributions, so basically 180k ish in market gains which is not bad considering tariffs and all the other macro uncertainties. If you had told me the sp500 would be around 6900 by EOY during Liberation Day I would not have believed it. But somehow the vibes feel less than euphoric...

I think the deep lack of euphoria is the worsening income gap and persistent inflation with salaries that didn't quite keep up. Take yourself - you made $180k in market gains - but I suspect it doesn't feel like "all that much" because quite frankly, it isn't. I don't think that for anyone outside of the true top 1% (networth $11 mil plus) the 16% SPY returns this year meant much. When you couple that with stagnant salaries and a garbage labor market for the average joe the economic uncertainty is weighing heavily.

I mentioned building a house - back in early 2020 I sat down with a builder and was quoted $200/sqft for high end finishes. The same builder just quoted me $350/sqft for "some high end finishes where they count, but not all over." Sadly my salary isn't 80% higher than it was 5 years ago despite my building costs being there.

In a macro sense - this pervasive societal unease with the economy is making it all feel like it's on the precipice of a collapse, even if it isn't (well, I hope not anyways.)

 

[Nocturnist]

I think the deep lack of euphoria is the worsening income gap and persistent inflation with salaries that didn't quite keep up. Take yourself - you made $180k in market gains - but I suspect it doesn't feel like "all that much" because quite frankly, it isn't. I don't think that for anyone outside of the true top 1% (networth $11 mil plus) the 16% SPY returns this year meant much. When you couple that with stagnant salaries and a garbage labor market for the average joe the economic uncertainty is weighing heavily.

I mentioned building a house - back in early 2020 I sat down with a builder and was quoted $200/sqft for high end finishes. The same builder just quoted me $350/sqft for "some high end finishes where they count, but not all over." Sadly my salary isn't 80% higher than it was 5 years ago despite my building costs being there.

In a macro sense - this pervasive societal unease with the economy is making it all feel like it's on the precipice of a collapse, even if it isn't (well, I hope not anyways.)

I'm old enough to remember when a shoe salesman could afford a nice house...

 

[Splenda88]

View attachment 413366
I'm old enough to remember when a shoe salesman could afford a nice house...

The system is rigged.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

Since I talked about my staff’s financial literacy, how about a couple of my partners in practice for 20+ years. We had our yearly 401k discussion, and I’m kinda disappointed.

One never maxes out much less does catchup. Doesn’t even get to the full match. At a 7% return I’ll have more than double than they have now when I’m their age, more than triple if it’s 10%.

The other insisted on keeping a low yield money market on the plan because that’s all they’ve ever used. Literally all and ever. There’s low risk tolerance and there’s almost zero risk tolerance I guess.

My high school educated staff seems to be leaning more into retirement than some of the doctors.

 

[thumbz]

How many of you do a 457?

 

[Nocturnist]

How many of you do a 457?

I maxed mine for about 5 years, I stopped all together a couple years ago and I don't recommend it to anyone.

This might have been obvious to you already, but for some reason I had in mind that money grows faster if it's taxed after it grows than before. Then I did the math and realized it doesn't. You end up with exactly the same amount after 30 years at the same tax rate.

So the only benefit of a 457 is the hope you'll be taxed at a lower tax bracket in retirement, which may not be the case. Not only is there no match, you don't even own the money until withdrawing it. Your employer owns it. And if your hospital goes under, that money is fair game for creditors. When one by one several hospital systems surrounding mine started bankrupting, I stopped contributing immediately.

Not only that, but in the much more likely scenario you'll separate from your employer- you may not be able to roll the 457 over and may be forced to withdraw those funds under terms that are unfavorable to you. Every 457 is different, and the odds of it lining up nicely with your next employer's 457 is slim (if next one even offers it).

 

[Nocturnist]

Since I talked about my staff’s financial literacy, how about a couple of my partners in practice for 20+ years. We had our yearly 401k discussion, and I’m kinda disappointed.

One never maxes out much less does catchup. Doesn’t even get to the full match. At a 7% return I’ll have more than double than they have now when I’m their age, more than triple if it’s 10%.

The other insisted on keeping a low yield money market on the plan because that’s all they’ve ever used. Literally all and ever. There’s low risk tolerance and there’s almost zero risk tolerance I guess.

My high school educated staff seems to be leaning more into retirement than some of the doctors.

The number of colleagues of mine in their 30s and 40s I've spoken to who don't contribute to nor even knew the login to their retirement accounts is unbelievable. They just never set it up or check it. I've literally gone numb trying to explain to colleagues how owning stocks works...as in, had to break it down to them that during a market downturn they still own the same number of stocks and they didn't actually lose any money until they sell anything.

I just saw an article on msnbc that the rate of stock ownership is nearing an all time high around 60% of americans and that's primarily driven by Gen Z realizing the only way to ever win the game is to be at the table. Maybe something productive has come to fruition out of their collective anxiety for a change.

 

[thumbz]

I maxed mine for about 5 years, I stopped all together a couple years ago and I don't recommend it to anyone.

This might have been obvious to you already, but for some reason I had in mind that money grows faster if it's taxed after it grows than before. Then I did the math and realized it doesn't. You end up with exactly the same amount after 30 years at the same tax rate.

So the only benefit of a 457 is the hope you'll be taxed at a lower tax bracket in retirement, which may not be the case. Not only is there no match, you don't even own the money until withdrawing it. Your employer owns it. And if your hospital goes under, that money is fair game for creditors. When one by one several hospital systems surrounding mine started bankrupting, I stopped contributing immediately.

Not only that, but in the much more likely scenario you'll separate from your employer- you may not be able to roll the 457 over and may be forced to withdraw those funds under terms that are unfavorable to you. Every 457 is different, and the odds of it lining up nicely with your next employer's 457 is slim (if next one even offers it).

This is my exact thought on it too, I was talking to my colleague about his this morning and figured I would see what the collectives opinion is on them. I don't like the idea of not "owning" the money

 

[eyeeye_captain]

The number of colleagues of mine in their 30s and 40s I've spoken to who don't contribute to nor even knew the login to their retirement accounts is unbelievable. They just never set it up or check it. I've literally gone numb trying to explain to colleagues how owning stocks works...as in, had to break it down to them that during a market downturn they still own the same number of stocks and they didn't actually lose any money until they sell anything.

Instead of some of the other fluff that we get in med school, maybe in M4 it should be a national requirement to have some kind of basic financials curriculum. It’s absurd to have a large percentage of intelligent, high functioning individuals be blind to even the simple things.

My neighbor is somehow an honest-to-deity family and consumer sciences teacher. She’s told me things like budgeting, taxes, and retirement stuff are on the agenda. If high schoolers can do it, surely med students can.

 

[Monocles]

I think the deep lack of euphoria is the worsening income gap and persistent inflation with salaries that didn't quite keep up. Take yourself - you made $180k in market gains - but I suspect it doesn't feel like "all that much" because quite frankly, it isn't. I don't think that for anyone outside of the true top 1% (networth $11 mil plus) the 16% SPY returns this year meant much. When you couple that with stagnant salaries and a garbage labor market for the average joe the economic uncertainty is weighing heavily.

I mentioned building a house - back in early 2020 I sat down with a builder and was quoted $200/sqft for high end finishes. The same builder just quoted me $350/sqft for "some high end finishes where they count, but not all over." Sadly my salary isn't 80% higher than it was 5 years ago despite my building costs being there.

In a macro sense - this pervasive societal unease with the economy is making it all feel like it's on the precipice of a collapse, even if it isn't (well, I hope not anyways.)

This makes sense. Everything feels more poorly made or smaller in quantity while being significantly more expensive.

I would almost use the word "dystopian" to describe this year's mood - not in a sudden catastrophic collapse way, but rather slow ensh*ttification over time of goods and services that we had previously taken for granted.

 

[emergentmd]

Early 50's here, and I think all docs should have a mandatory finance class before they get out of med school. I am essentially self taught and still learning. Made many mistakes early on in my attending career and time is one thing you can not get back. Time can be more important than how much you earn.

Currently in the 1% NW in the US and likely will be in the 0.1% before 60. A few things to think about when you are a high earner, and high NW.

1. Plan early, look into estate planning, trusts - Protect your legacy, protect your kids from whoever they marry, protect your estate from the IRS. Once you hit $5M NW, 10-20K to create an estate plan will be the best money spent.
2. If you have kids, don't forget the 38K gift exemption if you have a spouse. I put 38K/yr in each of my kids taxable brokerage accounts starting around 15, I wish I did this when they were 1. When they hit 25 yrs, their accounts should be pushing close to $1M, when they hit 35 should be $3+M. See above with estate planning. If you are going to give them an inheritance anyhow, do it when they need the $$$ and helps with estate planning.
3. If you have a business that creates an income, start an LLC/S Corp. There are many ways to reduce your taxes. Employ your kids. Kids do not have to pay/file taxes on the 1st 15K income. We have 3 kids and thus 45K off our income. They can fund a Roth too. Employ your spouse. You and you spouse can each do $23.5K IRAs, 7.5K catch up IRA, and 21K PSP. So can defer taxes on a total of 104K of income. Create a Cash Balance Plan for both and defer up to another 400K+ depending on your age. My wife & I defer 500K+ yearly into our retirement.
4. Find a competent and aggressive CPA. Too many deductions to count but see #3. Your family are employees of your company. Family dinners/trips = Business dinners/Trips. August rule. I write off 300K+/yr in business expenses. If large corps can have business events in Hawaii and Vegas, then why not you?
5. If you have some interest/time, invest in Real estate. You don't have to manage it, get a property manager. Let the property appreciate, and this can be your tax free piggy bank in the future. Build equity, and live off the tax free refi.