Need Advice/Info Concerning Conduct Charge/Suspicion

dyphus · Apr 29, 2006

Ive been placed in a situation, currently in review by my department, in which I have to defend a certain set of actions as carried out in a test that "looked" suspiciously like cheating. I swear to my innocence, as is the situation is, as I see it, a "Bad place, at a bad time". It is difficult to say what will happen, but should the worse come true, what primarily worries me is a possible background check a school might do. The infraction would be listed as academic misconduct, but If convicted I will receive a 0 on the exam and nothing more, aside from a report to the Dean of Students, it is this report that worries me, and not knowing if another school can in fact have access to such information. I have already been informed by the Dean of Students, that such acts are not listed on trascripts only kept on file in the office. If convicted, I will appeal and in a strong belief that I am innocent, will check "no" to any question on any application regarding any possible academic misconduct; and should I do this, do schools run academic background check anyhow? Ive also been assured by the Deans Office that academic misconduct records etc... are kept separate from regular academic records as per the state I live in. They are only looked into when applying for a federal job, in which I am not interested, Id just like to be a rural doctor and walk away from this even as I apply for school. My gpa is Fine, I have my LORs (all from MDs) I am just waiting to graduate and take the MCAT next spring. What should I do? And as asked before, do schools run academic checks anyway. I have no criminal record; I havent even had a traffic violation so i a not worried about those "checks". Id appreciate any and all advice and info I can get on this subject matter so I can relax a bit. I still dont even know if my prof. is going to deem this academic misconduct, but I hate worrying about what this might do to my app, if convicted. Thanks guys.

riceman04 · Apr 30, 2006

dyphus said:
Ive been placed in a situation, currently in review by my department, in which I have to defend a certain set of actions as carried out in a test that "looked" suspiciously like cheating. I swear to my innocence, as is the situation is, as I see it, a "Bad place, at a bad time". It is difficult to say what will happen, but should the worse come true, what primarily worries me is a possible background check a school might do. The infraction would be listed as academic misconduct, but If convicted I will receive a 0 on the exam and nothing more, aside from a report to the Dean of Students, it is this report that worries me, and not knowing if another school can in fact have access to such information. I have already been informed by the Dean of Students, that such acts are not listed on trascripts only kept on file in the office. If convicted, I will appeal and in a strong belief that I am innocent, will check "no" to any question on any application regarding any possible academic misconduct; and should I do this, do schools run academic background check anyhow? Ive also been assured by the Deans Office that academic misconduct records etc... are kept separate from regular academic records as per the state I live in. They are only looked into when applying for a federal job, in which I am not interested, Id just like to be a rural doctor and walk away from this even as I apply for school. My gpa is Fine, I have my LORs (all from MDs) I am just waiting to graduate and take the MCAT next spring. What should I do? And as asked before, do schools run academic checks anyway. I have no criminal record; I havent even had a traffic violation so i a not worried about those "checks". Id appreciate any and all advice and info I can get on this subject matter so I can relax a bit. I still dont even know if my prof. is going to deem this academic misconduct, but I hate worrying about what this might do to my app, if convicted. Thanks guys.

If the department does find you at fault for some academic conduct, regardless if you are innocent, you are required to check the "yes" box. If you dont, and med schools later find out after you are accepted and matriculate, they reserve the right to kick you out. I hope that whatever it is you are worried about does not come to fruition. But if it does, dont get "gangsta" and think that by not checking that box you will slide under the radar.

People get in to medical school with a mark like that on their transcript, especially if you present a valid explanation for what may or may not have really occurred.

bueno suerte (good luck)

CardiacIntensivist · Apr 30, 2006

Definately talk to your pre-health advisor. You are probably not the first person to find yourself in this sort of situation. If they find you guilty of your charge you will definately need to come up with a good explanation.

rajad10 · Apr 30, 2006

MAC12383 · Apr 30, 2006

what exactly are they accusing you of doing during the test and what were you actually doing since you're innocent?

DrBowtie · Apr 30, 2006

dyphus said:
Ive been placed in a situation, currently in review by my department, in which I have to defend a certain set of actions as carried out in a test that "looked" suspiciously like cheating. I swear to my innocence, as is the situation is, as I see it, a "Bad place, at a bad time". It is difficult to say what will happen, but should the worse come true, what primarily worries me is a possible background check a school might do. The infraction would be listed as academic misconduct, but If convicted I will receive a 0 on the exam and nothing more, aside from a report to the Dean of Students, it is this report that worries me, and not knowing if another school can in fact have access to such information. I have already been informed by the Dean of Students, that such acts are not listed on trascripts only kept on file in the office. If convicted, I will appeal and in a strong belief that I am innocent, will check "no" to any question on any application regarding any possible academic misconduct; and should I do this, do schools run academic background check anyhow? Ive also been assured by the Deans Office that academic misconduct records etc... are kept separate from regular academic records as per the state I live in. They are only looked into when applying for a federal job, in which I am not interested, Id just like to be a rural doctor and walk away from this even as I apply for school. My gpa is Fine, I have my LORs (all from MDs) I am just waiting to graduate and take the MCAT next spring. What should I do? And as asked before, do schools run academic checks anyway. I have no criminal record; I havent even had a traffic violation so i a not worried about those "checks". Id appreciate any and all advice and info I can get on this subject matter so I can relax a bit. I still dont even know if my prof. is going to deem this academic misconduct, but I hate worrying about what this might do to my app, if convicted. Thanks guys.

Here is one thing to think about: Do you have a committee letter from a pre-health advisor? If not, you need 3 academic letters (usually 2 science, 1 non-science) which probably would not be included in your already gathered letter from "All MDs".

njbmd · Apr 30, 2006

dyphus said:
If convicted, I will appeal and in a strong belief that I am innocent, will check "no" to any question on any application regarding any possible academic misconduct; and should I do this, do schools run academic background check anyhow? Ive also been assured by the Deans Office that academic misconduct records etc... are kept separate from regular academic records as per the state I live in. They are only looked into when applying for a federal job, in which I am not interested, Id just like to be a rural doctor and walk away from this even as I apply for school. My gpa is Fine, I have my LORs (all from MDs) I am just waiting to graduate and take the MCAT next spring. What should I do? And as asked before, do schools run academic checks anyway. I have no criminal record; I havent even had a traffic violation so i a not worried about those "checks". Id appreciate any and all advice and info I can get on this subject matter so I can relax a bit. I still dont even know if my prof. is going to deem this academic misconduct, but I hate worrying about what this might do to my app, if convicted. Thanks guys.

Hi there,
I would NOT lie about this on your application. Check the "yes" box and provide an explanation in the space provided should the worse happen to you. The key thing is to tell the truth always. Believe me, as a member of an admissions committee, we have been able to find out about academic dishonesty and have dismissed people for such. Tell the truth.

Also, most medical schools are going to ask for a letter of recommendation from a science professor or your undergraduate pre-medical committee. Should the "worse" happen, it will likely be in one of these letters.

The important thing is to find a way of proving your innocence. Being accused of academic dishonestly is not as being found guilty of academic dishonesty and getting a zero on your test. Calmly and professionally prove that you did not cheat and that you were as you say above "in the wrong place at the wrong time". Clear your name and get on with your career.

If you lie, then you might as well have been guilty of this infraction. Yes, medical schools will do a background check on you and you cannot run away from this. While not listed on your academic transcript, academic dishonesty infractions can be reported in a background check. Our background checks are more sophisticated and easily obtained. We keep a person in the admissions office to obtain these background checks and they are reported to use before an offer of matriculation is made.

Tell the truth and explain this situation if the worse happens. If everything else is competitive, you can get beyond this. If you lie, the best case scenario is that you are constantly looking over your shoulder and the worse case is that even after you graduate from medical school, your degree can be invalidated because of lying on your application.

Good luck and clear your name even if it takes outside legal assistance.

njbmd 🙂

anon-y-mouse · Apr 30, 2006

njbmd said:
Hi there,
Believe me, as a member of an admissions committee, we have been able to find out about academic dishonesty and have dismissed people for such.

Yes, medical schools will do a background check on you and you cannot run away from this. While not listed on your academic transcript, academic dishonesty infractions can be reported in a background check. Our background checks are more sophisticated and easily obtained. We keep a person in the admissions office to obtain these background checks and they are reported to use before an offer of matriculation is made.

i.e. BEFORE you extend an offer of admission? or after that fact? Does the person just call up the undergraduate school and inquire?

To add to this, some schools will require a "Dean's Certification" thing, like WashU, which you have to give to your Dean who basically notes anything in your academic file like this.

medcrunch · Apr 30, 2006

Ok everyone. This type of question seems to come up periodically, yet nobody has ever properly addressed it. I will start off by saying that i am currently an MSII at a US allopathic medical school and I sit on the admissions committee at my school. My freshman year of college i did something very stupid and was placed on both housing and disciplinary probation at my university. I was very worried about this during the application cycle, but i consulted a friend who was already in med school and he advised me that it would be okay. So, i did not check the box on AMCAS indicating institutional action, did not mention it in any of my interviews and was subsequently accepted to four medical schools, including my top choice.

Here is the real information that i am hoping to offer you. When i was applying, i was only going off of the advice of a friend, but now that i am on the inside, i know how it actually works. All disciplinary action taken against a student is private and is protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. The school can release absolutely no information about you without your consent. This includes absolutely no disciplinary or academic information. As a student admissions officer, i have seen that a very small number of schools will include academic violations on their copy of the official transcript. These schools will ask you to sign a release before the transcript is submitted. To verify that your school is not one of these, request a copy of your official transcript and verify that nothing is on it. The only other way that i have seen people get caught is in their pre-med committee letter. Some schools ask a student for letters of rec and then the premed committee reviews the letters, interviews the student and then reviews the students disciplinary file. If there is anything in your disciplinary file, the premed committee will ask you to sign a release and they will mention it in your letter. Find out if your school does this. If they do, use interfolio as a letter collection service instead. My school does not care whether your letters come from the premed committee or from a letter collection service. So in summary, there are only three ways that you can be caught, on your transcript, on your LORs or in your interview. Keep your mouth shut and you will be fine. You already screwed up once to put yourself into this predicament, don't screw up again.

I have heard many people wonder if schools run "background checks" on applicants/admitted students. My university does not. As far as i know, there are no universities that do. However, there is a criminal background check at my university before we take step 1. Unlike law schools which request a copy of the university disciplinary record, medical schools do not ask for a confirmation. The only people who they ask for a confirmation from is people who checked the institutional action box and they want to verify their story.

Now, getting to the checking of the institutional action box. Absolutely, under no circumstances check this box. At my school all checked applications are put in a separate pile for special review by an admissions officer. Of the 100+ checked applications this year, 1 has been admitted so far. This person was only admitted because they had checked the box for a write-up concerning over-occupancy in her dorm room freshman year. Checking the box is a huge red flag and will almost guarantee you a rejection.

In summary, the reporting of institutional action is something that will keep you out of medical school. Do i feel bad about not checking the box? Absolutely not. I know that what happened almost 6 years ago does not reflect on me as a person and that i have grown as an individual thanks to that experience. Am i worried about being caught in the future? Absolutely not. All undergrad schools have a policy whereby they destroy student disciplinary/housing records the day the student graduates. So, I know that as long as i keep my mouth shut, that nothing will come of it and i will go on to be a great doctor and help many people.

I hope that this post has helped some people who are now in the same position that i was once in. Good luck with your applications.

medcrunch · Apr 30, 2006

njbmd said:
Hi there,
I would NOT lie about this on your application. Check the "yes" box and provide an explanation in the space provided should the worse happen to you. The key thing is to tell the truth always. Believe me, as a member of an admissions committee, we have been able to find out about academic dishonesty and have dismissed people for such. Tell the truth.

Also, most medical schools are going to ask for a letter of recommendation from a science professor or your undergraduate pre-medical committee. Should the "worse" happen, it will likely be in one of these letters.

The important thing is to find a way of proving your innocence. Being accused of academic dishonestly is not as being found guilty of academic dishonesty and getting a zero on your test. Calmly and professionally prove that you did not cheat and that you were as you say above "in the wrong place at the wrong time". Clear your name and get on with your career.

If you lie, then you might as well have been guilty of this infraction. Yes, medical schools will do a background check on you and you cannot run away from this. While not listed on your academic transcript, academic dishonesty infractions can be reported in a background check. Our background checks are more sophisticated and easily obtained. We keep a person in the admissions office to obtain these background checks and they are reported to use before an offer of matriculation is made.

Tell the truth and explain this situation if the worse happens. If everything else is competitive, you can get beyond this. If you lie, the best case scenario is that you are constantly looking over your shoulder and the worse case is that even after you graduate from medical school, your degree can be invalidated because of lying on your application.

Good luck and clear your name even if it takes outside legal assistance.

njbmd 🙂

njbmd- You are misleading people to think that medical school admissions officers can just call up an undergrad school and ask about academic or disciplinary records. All of this information is extremely confidential and nobody can be given access to it without written consent from the student. Any university which violated FERPA could be subject to very large federal fines and a significant lawsuit. Also, someone mentioned that on secondary applications there is a release for undergraduate academic/disciplinary records. This is not true at my medical school or at any of the 14 medical schools which i applied to. Also, schools do not conduct criminal background checks during the admissions process. I do not know where you got this idea from. Yes, CRIMINAL background checks are given before step 1 and also before graduation (I think), but there exists no "undergraduate university background check". Even if something like that existed, it would be a moot point, since most universities destroy/permanently seal their undergraduate records upon graduation.

njbmd · Apr 30, 2006

medcrunch said:
njbmd- You are misleading people to think that medical school admissions officers can just call up an undergrad school and ask about academic or disciplinary records. All of this information is extremely confidential and nobody can be given access to it without written consent from the student. Any university which violated FERPA could be subject to very large federal fines and a significant lawsuit. Also, someone mentioned that on secondary applications there is a release for undergraduate academic/disciplinary records. This is not true at my medical school or at any of the 14 medical schools which i applied to. Also, schools do not conduct criminal background checks during the admissions process. I do not know where you got this idea from. Yes, CRIMINAL background checks are given before step 1 and also before graduation (I think), but there exists no "undergraduate university background check". Even if something like that existed, it would be a moot point, since most universities destroy/permanently seal their undergraduate records upon graduation.

Hi there,
Our checks on applicants goes far beyond just "calling". We are under no obligation to ask for student permission in the checks that we perform. Criminal background checks are done in a different manner from our checks.

We DO subject our applicants to background checks and these results are reported to the admissions committee before offer of matriculation. The bottom line is DO NOT LIE on your application.

njbmd 🙂

medcrunch · Apr 30, 2006

njbmd said:
Hi there,
Our checks on applicants goes far beyond just "calling". We are under no obligation to ask for student permission in the checks that we perform. Criminal background checks are done in a different manner from our checks.

We DO subject our applicants to background checks and these results are reported to the admissions committee before offer of matriculation. The bottom line is DO NOT LIE on your application.

njbmd 🙂

njbmd- Although your school might perform checks of student records, you are sorely mistaken in the way that these records are obtained. You might want to check out this link http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
for some more information about FERPA. To clarify, the only times that a school can release any information from a student's education record without written permission are:

School officials with legitimate educational interest;
Other schools to which a student is transferring;
Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;
Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;
Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;
Accrediting organizations;
To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;
Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and
State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law.

Despite what you say, there is NO WAY that a student's undergraduate records from one university can be obtained by another university!!!
Stop trying to scare people.

masterMood · Apr 30, 2006

hmmm don't med. schools fall under some of that criteria?

anon-y-mouse · Apr 30, 2006

medcrunch said:
Ok everyone. This type of question seems to come up periodically, yet nobody has ever properly addressed it. I will start off by saying that i am currently an MSII at a US allopathic medical school and I sit on the admissions committee at my school. My freshman year of college i did something very stupid and was placed on both housing and disciplinary probation at my university. I was very worried about this during the application cycle, but i consulted a friend who was already in med school and he advised me that it would be okay. So, i did not check the box on AMCAS indicating institutional action, did not mention it in any of my interviews and was subsequently accepted to four medical schools, including my top choice.

Here is the real information that i am hoping to offer you. When i was applying, i was only going off of the advice of a friend, but now that i am on the inside, i know how it actually works. All disciplinary action taken against a student is private and is protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. The school can release absolutely no information about you without your consent. This includes absolutely no disciplinary or academic information. As a student admissions officer, i have seen that a very small number of schools will include academic violations on their copy of the official transcript. These schools will ask you to sign a release before the transcript is submitted. To verify that your school is not one of these, request a copy of your official transcript and verify that nothing is on it. The only other way that i have seen people get caught is in their pre-med committee letter. Some schools ask a student for letters of rec and then the premed committee reviews the letters, interviews the student and then reviews the students disciplinary file. If there is anything in your disciplinary file, the premed committee will ask you to sign a release and they will mention it in your letter. Find out if your school does this. If they do, use interfolio as a letter collection service instead. My school does not care whether your letters come from the premed committee or from a letter collection service. So in summary, there are only three ways that you can be caught, on your transcript, on your LORs or in your interview. Keep your mouth shut and you will be fine. You already screwed up once to put yourself into this predicament, don't screw up again.

I have heard many people wonder if schools run "background checks" on applicants/admitted students. My university does not. As far as i know, there are no universities that do. However, there is a criminal background check at my university before we take step 1. Unlike law schools which request a copy of the university disciplinary record, medical schools do not ask for a confirmation. The only people who they ask for a confirmation from is people who checked the institutional action box and they want to verify their story.

Now, getting to the checking of the institutional action box. Absolutely, under no circumstances check this box. At my school all checked applications are put in a separate pile for special review by an admissions officer. Of the 100+ checked applications this year, 1 has been admitted so far. This person was only admitted because they had checked the box for a write-up concerning over-occupancy in her dorm room freshman year. Checking the box is a huge red flag and will almost guarantee you a rejection.

In summary, the reporting of institutional action is something that will keep you out of medical school. Do i feel bad about not checking the box? Absolutely not. I know that what happened almost 6 years ago does not reflect on me as a person and that i have grown as an individual thanks to that experience. Am i worried about being caught in the future? Absolutely not. All undergrad schools have a policy whereby they destroy student disciplinary/housing records the day the student graduates. So, I know that as long as i keep my mouth shut, that nothing will come of it and i will go on to be a great doctor and help many people.

I hope that this post has helped some people who are now in the same position that i was once in. Good luck with your applications.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. This would really fit in with the whole AMCAS "not declaring this is a serious offense" thing they have pop up over and over again. I think the only exception is schools which require the dean's certification (WashU is all I know of).

medcrunch · Apr 30, 2006

masterMood said:
hmmm don't med. schools fall under some of that criteria?

according to our dean of admissions, "School officials with legitimate educational interest" only refers to officials at your own undergraduate institution. Also, graduate school admission committees do not fall under "Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes".

MAC12383 · Apr 30, 2006

medcrunch said:
according to our dean of admissions, "School officials with legitimate educational interest" only refers to officials at your own undergraduate institution. Also, graduate school admission committees do not fall under "Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes".

What about "other schools to which a student is transferring?"

masterMood · Apr 30, 2006

Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes (could this be considered?)
Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student (could the medical school use this then?)
Accrediting organizations (i'm not sure if the AMA or medical school is an accrediting organization but could this be used?)

those are the other ones i was unsure on (not that i have a bad record or anything, but its good knowledge to know heh heh)

medcrunch · Apr 30, 2006

although i understand the concern about the exact wording, the truth is that my medical school does not request verification of the disciplinary record. Can you imagine what that would be like for some of these schools that accept 400+ students. It would be an insane amount of work.

dyphus · Apr 30, 2006

I really appreciate the responses from all of you, thank you. As for the several posts that medcrunch has made, I especially thank you. I did look up the stipulations from FERPA and I agree- it seems unlikely that school could run a background check and obtain the information without consent, and for that matter, I doubt most schools would run a check lest there be a "red flag" on the application. What is of concern though, in regard to FERPA is what has been discussed in the last few posts on my topic. I came accross this article in regard to the Act: (but as such seems to be a tailored version made by Cornell U. for this exact wording does not exist on the original text)

(h) Disciplinary records; disclosure
Nothing in this section shall prohibit an educational agency or institution from
(1) including appropriate information in the education record of any student concerning disciplinary action taken against such student for conduct that posed a significant risk to the safety or well-being of that student, other students, or other members of the school community; or
(2) disclosing such information to teachers and school officials, including teachers and school officials in other schools, who have legitimate educational interests in the behavior of the student.

Section 2 of this statement, as seen above, makes me wonder as to wether the "school officials in other schools, who have legitimate educational interests etc.." constitutes perhaps an Adcomm from a prospective school, having such an interest. I know that FERPA does pertain to individuals associated with the current school, and them having access to the info, but I am not sure how far this goes beyond that. Because what worries me most is say down the road does the AMA check this sort of thing out as a "auditing" party? And say I were to leave the states for medical school, but re-enter as an FMG; will the state in which I am to apply for licensure check this sort of thing? I ask this because it does make me wonder if such a thing were to be found out, then would it jeopardize my education having received my MD degree, say 5 years from now? I mean, can they actually take away your degree having not appropriated the right remark on your initial app to the school years down the road? Seems almost a stretch to me, but I dont know.

Flopotomist · Apr 30, 2006

I didn't read the fine print - but didn't we sign something releasing transcripts to AMCAS? If an F appeared on a transcript (a zero on an exam would lead to an F, no?) wouldn't that be a red flag that SOMETHING happened? I don't have any institutional actions against me, so don't know, but don't these appear on a transcript? If so - would this "FERPA" thing be an issue if we sign a consent releasing the transcript? Curious.

NapeSpikes · Apr 30, 2006

rajad10 said:
while not as serious as an academic violation, I received a disordely conduct violation in the dorms during my freshman year for horseplay. I've been worried about this...

Horseplay? :laugh:

I'm all for honesty and everything, but I highly doubt this is what is meant by conduct violation. How many of us got written up as a freshman in the dorms? I know I did, and it didn't even cross my mind to check the box. I don't even think they keep records of that stuff at my undergrad. Of course, I'm talking about minor, silly stuff--you know, where the police or ambulance, etc. wasn't involved.

(I don't know anything about academic violation, sorry.)

MAC12383 · Apr 30, 2006

what about having beer in your dorm room? my friends and I got caught with that freshman year, adn we got written up. had to pay a $25 fine and take this little alcohol quiz thing after doing some alcohol software they gave us. i'm pretty sure it was a "disciplinary warning" or something, not probation or anything. and I think i remember them saying it should not be on my permanent record as long as i don't do anything else. Anyway, I've already been accepted to schools but I never checked that box because I didn't think it applied....i didn't even remember at the time. Now I'm worried. Is that considered institutional action that med schools would want to know about? Should I tell them now? It definitely didn't involve the police or anything.

rajad10 · Apr 30, 2006

MAC12383 said:
what about having beer in your dorm room? my friends and I got caught with that freshman year, adn we got written up. had to pay a $25 fine and take this little alcohol quiz thing after doing some alcohol software they gave us. i'm pretty sure it was a "disciplinary warning" or something, not probation or anything. and I think i remember them saying it should not be on my permanent record as long as i don't do anything else. Anyway, I've already been accepted to schools but I never checked that box because I didn't think it applied....i didn't even remember at the time. Now I'm worried. Is that considered institutional action that med schools would want to know about? Should I tell them now? It definitely didn't involve the police or anything.

.

AmcasAnxiety · Aug 5, 2006

if you guys are monitoring this thread =)

ANCAdoc · Aug 5, 2006

MEDCRUNCH - I seriously question your advice. As a current med student myself, I can tell you there is something morally wrong if a form asks you about academic misconduct and you say everything is OK (when it isn't). This is a flat out lie, and if you are willing to lie about this situation, it makes one wonder what other things you would be willing to lie about. It's a serious matter.

I don't want to sound too harsh here, but it is indeed wrong.

stephanieg · Jan 17, 2007

Thank you =)

foofish · Jan 17, 2007

dyphus said:
They are only looked into when applying for a federal job, in which I am not interested, Id just like to be a rural doctor and walk away from this even as I apply for school. My gpa is Fine, I have my LORs (all from MDs) I am just waiting to graduate and take the MCAT next spring.

I agree with the other posters that lying on your application isn't really a great idea, and if your school writes committee letters and you don't get cleared, you might want to check to see if the academic probation/dishonesty thing disqualifies you from getting a letter. Two other points:

1. If you want to be a rural doctor, there's a chance you would be interested in the federal service programs where they pay off a portion of your loans in return for working in a rural/underserved region....in which case you'd really want to get yourself cleared now.

2. As someone else pointed out, your LORs need to be from your professors, not just MDs you know...if they're MDs you volunteered for, or did research for, those can be included, but if they're just general recs from doctors, most med schools actively discourage such letters. The main LORs you need are from science and non-science professors of classes you've taken.

Best of luck, and hope it all gets cleared up.

pennybridge · Jan 17, 2007

maybe you shouldn't have cheated.

foofish · Jan 17, 2007

medcrunch said:
So, i did not check the box on AMCAS indicating institutional action, did not mention it in any of my interviews and was subsequently accepted to four medical schools, including my top choice.

I'm just wondering what the reaction from the rest of the admissions committee would be if you told them you lied about having institutional action but got in anyway...

And I think at most schools, being found "guilty" of cheating is often considered to be a more serious offense than "horseplay"...hell, at my undergrad, it would get you expelled.

LizzyM · Jan 17, 2007

FERPA does protect your privacy. However, how many of you waived your rights under FERPA when requesting a LOR? I bet almost everyone has and you don't even know it. Some schools do state specifically in the committee letter that the applicant doesn't have a disciplinary record.

Lying on the AMCAS is tricky business and I would never recommend it. If you are dishonest in this situation, how can you be trusted in situations when it would be easier or better for you to lie to patients, families and the health care team?

It is true that applications with "Instititutional Action" get an extra layer of scrutiny but for violations of dorm rules and alcohol infractions it is mostly an opportunity for the adcom to chuckle or sigh and move the application through for the usual review. The only applicants who I've seen get denied admission due to an Institutional Action have had issues related to academic dishonesty, theft, or vehicular manslaughter.

The OP should work to clear his name. Sometimes you can "plea bargain" such that you avoid "institutional action" on your record in exchange for taking an F for the exam or the course without any recourse to an appeal panel. This is less aggravation for the school as the official pipeline for adjudicating dishonesty is often cumbersome.

MinnyGophers · Jan 17, 2007

I find it disturbing that someone who is a med student and serves in a adcom would reveal tricks and encourage cheating the admission process.

notdeadyet · Jan 17, 2007

Anyone else find it a little ironic that the OP's solution to being wrongly accused of cheating is to lie about it?

OP- if you cheated, take your lumps. Own up to it and move on. If you didn't, fight the charges tooth and nail, but be honest on your application. If you get caught not reporting an academic infraction, your response of "I didn't do it" will carry absolutely no weight.

Need Advice/Info Concerning Conduct Charge/Suspicion

dyphus

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dyphus

I love the Chicago USPS

Believe, hon.

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the evil queen of numbers

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Still in California

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