How to convince my crazy mom that DO is better than the carribeans

Started by calisurfdoc
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calisurfdoc

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Now i seriously need some help to fight this uphill battle. I've done my homework and done the research about DOs vs MDs vs Carribean MDs etc. I have made my own personal decision to attend Western/COMP next year. Now i'm coming across my "image worried" mom who only cares about the MD behind my name. Yes, it's a bit redicoulous, but she always believes she is correct. Anyone have good suggestions/ammo so i could counteract her arguments? She tried the tantrum approach and I've already not let that phase me. Once again this is my mom that i have to deal with.
 
calisurfdoc said:
Now i seriously need some help to fight this uphill battle. I've done my homework and done the research about DOs vs MDs vs Carribean MDs etc. I have made my own personal decision to attend Western/COMP next year. Now i'm coming across my "image worried" mom who only cares about the MD behind my name. Yes, it's a bit redicoulous, but she always believes she is correct. Anyone have good suggestions/ammo so i could counteract her arguments? She tried the tantrum approach and I've already not let that phase me. Once again this is my mom that i have to deal with.
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THREE WORDS -- "PELVIC DIAPHRAGM RELEASE." If after this technique she still is not a believer than you must go Caribbean.
 
Have her go live in Dominica for 2 years. When she comes back see if she still feels the same way



calisurfdoc said:
Now i seriously need some help to fight this uphill battle. I've done my homework and done the research about DOs vs MDs vs Carribean MDs etc. I have made my own personal decision to attend Western/COMP next year. Now i'm coming across my "image worried" mom who only cares about the MD behind my name. Yes, it's a bit redicoulous, but she always believes she is correct. Anyone have good suggestions/ammo so i could counteract her arguments? She tried the tantrum approach and I've already not let that phase me. Once again this is my mom that i have to deal with.
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You don't need to convince your mother. And if you feel you do, then 2-3 years down the line, I can guarantee you will be calling her up, very frustrated, and wishing you had never listened to her. Don't determine your future by what your mother wants; determine it by what you want; but regardless, make an informed decision! Obviously, your mother does not know all the facts, but is rather only concerned about the initials behind your name; of course, she'll be able to call you an "MD" in front of her friends, yet when they ask where are you doing your medical education, what will she tell them? Your mother is not looking at all the consequences of each option. Either way though, you must make this decision yourself, or otherwise you'll end up blaming her for any problems that went wrong afterwards.
 
When you think about it though, wouldn't you rather be close to family and friends? Believe me I have been to Europe, and I have friends who have gone to medical school in Europe and in the Carribean. There are far fewer resources available, and when its emergency time to evacuate because of a tropical storm, your at a loss for time and money. DOs overall have a higher passing rate on the USMLE than their IMG allopathic counterparts (http://www.usmle.org/scores/scores.htm), and can at times, have a higher or equal passing rate comparable to all allopathic physicians (USA/IMG combined). You would be better off in the United States, than you would in the Carribean. And if you do choose to go to DO school, you would also be privileged to take the COMLEX, in which case you would find yourself having more clerkship and residency opportunities.
 
why dont you tell her that the caribbean schools are usually in third world countries with minimal infrastructure.

just spending a few weeks there myself, i would never go to med school there!

tell her any US trained doctor stands a better chance for residencies

tell her its more selective to get into DO schools than caribbean schools

tell her to get up to speed with the year 2005

tell her you will be happy as a DO
 
calisurfdoc said:
Now i seriously need some help to fight this uphill battle. I've done my homework and done the research about DOs vs MDs vs Carribean MDs etc. I have made my own personal decision to attend Western/COMP next year. Now i'm coming across my "image worried" mom who only cares about the MD behind my name. Yes, it's a bit redicoulous, but she always believes she is correct. Anyone have good suggestions/ammo so i could counteract her arguments? She tried the tantrum approach and I've already not let that phase me. Once again this is my mom that i have to deal with.
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sounds like her arguments are based from a lack of knowledge. i had a similar experience with my parents. after i told them i'd decided to go DO only they simply told me that whatever decision i make they would support but be sure that is what you want. next day, my parents went online by themselves and researched DO's and told me that they were proud of me for choosing to pursue osteopathic medicine. print some info for your mom regarding osteopathy. she is just looking out for your best interest and wants to insure that you are ultimately happy.
 
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theOC said:
sounds like her arguments are based from a lack of knowledge. i had a similar experience with my parents. after i told them i'd decided to go DO only they simply told me that whatever decision i make they would support but be sure that is what you want. next day, my parents went online by themselves and researched DO's and told me that they were proud of me for choosing to pursue osteopathic medicine. print some info for your mom regarding osteopathy. she is just looking out for your best interest and wants to insure that you are ultimately happy.
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Seriously, that's the exact same thing that happened with my mom. She told me she would support me in whatever I do, and she believed from me what I had said to her about osteopathy, but instead she also decided to do her own research - even started talking to her friends about D.O.'s and if they had any encounters with them, etc. My mom, and my entire family, are all for it.

Interestingly enough, I got to shadow a D.O. through a residency director (MD) at one of the well known clinics in LA. He really was nothing but praise about admitting them, saying he's seen many bright, top-notch students, some of whom he knew elsewhere that got into very competitive residencies and fellowships. Basically warned me to stay far away from the IMG route since some residency programs will automatically toss your app if you go offshore.
 
medicine1 said:
Also, DOs have a higher passing rate for the USMLE Step 1, than Both USA and IMG allopathic students (FIRST AID for the USMLE Step 1, A Student 2004 Student Guide, Bhushan, et al. Page 13)
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Stop pumping bull**** into this forum.

osteopathic students most certainly DO NOT do not have higher passing rates then allopathic students on the USMLE.
 
medicine1 said:
Also, DOs have a higher passing rate for the USMLE Step 1, than Both USA and IMG allopathic students (FIRST AID for the USMLE Step 1, A Student 2004 Student Guide, Bhushan, et al. Page 13).
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I happen to have FA 2004. The table on pg. 13 says this:

................2001..2002

MD first time 91% 92%
DO first time 72% 70%

to be clear - there is no part of that table which shows DO's having a higher pass rate than MDs. DO's *do* have higher pass rates than IMGs, but not by much.

Perhaps you were thinking about Step II? I think the pass rates for DO's taking Step II equals or slightly surpasses MD takers. But that's for the severely reduced number of DOs who progress to taking Step II. Most DO's only take USMLE Step I.
 
Buckeye(OH) said:
Stop pumping bull**** into this forum.

osteopathic students most certainly DO NOT do not have higher passing rates then allopathic students on the USMLE.
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They do if you combine both the Domestic and Foreign M.D. scores.

But who really cares? We know that M.D.'s score higher than D.O.'s on the USMLE, and that Foreign M.D.'s have by far the lowest pass rate.

It doesn't really matter, because every single state in the U.S. accepts the COMLEX for D.O. licensure.

Foreign grads still have to take the USMLE, and still all states don't even take that.
 
To the OP:

My aunt reacted in a similar when I announced my acceptance to TCOM.
However, I stuck to my guns so to speak-I was convinced the American DO degree would help me accomplish what I wanted, and guess what?

It did!

When I announced my acceptance to a large university anesthesiology program, this aunt and her husband are now tripping over themselves telling everyone their nephew is a doctor and training to become an anesthesiologist. They also insist on addressing me as "Doctor" at family gatherings. Go figure!

Implied here is once you graduate and match into MD residency, it will often quell most family fears. I have seen it happen time and time again.

The point is this. Do your research. See if the US DO will get you into whatever specialties you think you might be interested in. See if there are DOs in the field. There are DOs in every field somewhere, but there are some that are definitely a bit more challenging to get into as a DO, eg derm, optho, some allo surgical subspecialties like plastics, trauma, etc.

DOs have strong representation in FP/Pediatrics/IM/IM subspecialties/emergency medicine/general surgery/obgyn/anesthesiology. If these cover your interests, then you are set.

I have met many IMG MDs who eventually decided that MD behind their name was most critical. I think it probably carries more weight still with laypeople-
(only out of ignorance though) Now these residents were MORE limited in postgraduate training possibilities or yet forced to train in more undesirable geographical locations, and a lot of these people have confided in me that if they could do it over again, they would go US DO. Whatever.

Good luck!
 
Thank you to all for the comments...current status...i'm still excited to be attending COMP in a few months, but my mom thinks she can wear me out with the silent treatment. we haven't talked in a few day, but that'll still be alot better than not being able to afford talking on the phone later on at $2/min if i was in the carribean. And gas is what i want to do in the future so DO works for me.
 
Sometimes it can feel like one is all alone in the world, when one feels he or she is making the right decision. I am sorry your mother holds such contempt for the DO profession. I wish you the best of luck and success in your life, career, and ultimate journey within the medical profession.
 
I think if you have your mother talk to a foreign med grad they will most likely convince her that you are way better off at a US DO school. That's what happened to me. The FMG that I interviewed with for St. George's old me straight up to go to the US DO school instead of St. George's.
 
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Yeah, definately go DO over the island schools.... You have to let your mom know that, for all practical purposes, DO=MD.
 
NotShorty said:
Don't convince her. Cut your umbilical cord and tell her to go f*ck herself. I'm not being sarcastic, just blunt.

You've made your decision. That's all there is to say.

NS
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Holy **** that was the funniest thing I've read all week.

Anyway, you might do an internet search or go through a phone book and see what kind of docs around where you live are D.O.'s. Your mom might be surprised to find that doctors that she knows or her friends know are D.O.s and never really noticed.
 
I knew I wanted an american medical education.

I like to know my food was approved by the FDA.

I like to know I can go to the grocery store and get food I like.

I like living near a big city and having available culture, sports, cable, high speed internet, quality health care, and if you have children decent schools.

I like knowing I can get cheap plane tickets to see my folks, go to conventions, go to conferences, or go visit hospitals/residencies.

I like only worrying about hurricanes beating me up decently and having a good infrastructure and solid emergency services with worring about my school getting blown away.

Those were some of my thoughts.

Oh, as for convincing my mother was easy....I told her I was admitted to a medical school and she did a little researching. She found that there was DO's in the area and she never realized it. People have even told her when she says I am getting my DO that they specifically look for them. She was taken away but now she sends me tons of articles in the papers about them.
 
calisurfdoc said:
Thank you to all for the comments...current status...i'm still excited to be attending COMP in a few months, but my mom thinks she can wear me out with the silent treatment. we haven't talked in a few day, but that'll still be alot better than not being able to afford talking on the phone later on at $2/min if i was in the carribean. And gas is what i want to do in the future so DO works for me.
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Hey,

One thing I've learned about this whole family/DO thing is that they want the best for you, and don't want you to waste your intelligence on a half-a** profession.

You can't let uninformed people make such important decisions for you, no matter how important they are to you. Unless your mother is involved with the AAMC, AOA, AMA, USMLE, COMLEX, NBOME, ACGME... then she doesn't know much about current medical trends. My mom was the same way.

In the end, this is one of those life decisions that you have to make for yourself based on your own impression. You can't let her do this to you whenever she disagrees about some choice you make pertaining to your life.

One day it's medical school, next day it's the house you buy, next it's what you name your children, and then what you name the dog.

Trust me, this is bigger than the whole DO/IMG thing. You need to make the decision that works for you, and your mom will be happy in the end.
 
almostfamous said:
Holy **** that was the funniest thing I've read all week.
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😳 Aw, shucks. 🙂

I don't want to beat a horse to death, or assume that your relationship with your mother is something it is not, but I agree with dr_almondjoy_do. Make sure your decisions are YOUR decisions.

Otherwise you will be living in "your mom's house," working in "your mom's profession," driving "your mom's car," etc.

NS

[edit]: whoa, I meant "beat a dead horse." :laugh: Ah, Miller Lite and Buttery Nipples, what have you done with my brain?
 
NotShorty said:
😳 Aw, shucks. 🙂

I don't want to beat a horse to death, or assume that your relationship with your mother is something it is not, but I agree with dr_almondjoy_do. Make sure your decisions are YOUR decisions.

Otherwise you will be living in "your mom's house," working in "your mom's profession," driving "your mom's car," etc.

NS

[edit]: whoa, I meant "beat a dead horse." :laugh: Ah, Miller Lite and Buttery Nipples, what have you done with my brain?
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:laugh:
beat a horse to death..hehe
I laughed out loud. Sorry for being off topic
 
At least he's not beating dead horses to life 😉.

Though that would be really, really awesome.
 
Kazema said:
At least he's not beating dead horses to life 😉.

Though that would be really, really awesome.
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Nice! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I know of a guy one year ahead of me at LECOM that did all 4 years at Ross University. He took the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2, passed both. He was dead set on orthopaedics and applied to only ortho and surg spots and did not match. He did a transition year and tried again the following year. He did not match on his second attempt.

Still not giving up, he applied to LECOM to join the ISP (Independent Study Pathway). He wanted to read the modules, walk in and take the tests and not have to sit through the classes. LECOM still made him go through 2 years of OMT and repeat all of his clinical rotations. (He wasnt too happy about that).

In way over his head in student loans, he joined the army to pay for his second stent of medical school. I suppose this opens the most options for him.... military, DO, and MD residency spots. I am anxious to see our match list next year to see where he ended up.

I think the guy just loves getting beat over the head. There has to be an easier way. I can't imagine going through medical school a second time. But maybe this story will at least shed some light to your mom about the difference.

To be honest with you, the guy RAVED about Ross University's education. He said that his professors were world renowned doctors that were living down there enjoying the carribean weather and tax free income.

The problem is coming back and getting black balled in US residencies.
 
You should feel lucky to have a chance to attend an Osteopathic School. Be grateful and tell your mom that you are chosing the better school. Obviously! Any person with half a brain realizes this, it is really not a very hard decision at all.
 
Dude, pick DO...look at the NRMP match rates for 2005.....55% of FMG's matched while ~70% of DOs matched into ACGME PGY-1 positions. (Numbers do not include DOs who took DO Intern years and only matched to PGY2 advanced positions.)

You have more options as a DO.......DO only residencies and more acceptance into MD programs.......I matched for anesthesia this yr and saw very few FMG's on the interview trail.....lot more DOs though.

Oh, BTW....you have less paperwork and less hassle to get licensed in whatever state.

Tell your momz to let go...otherwise, wear a dress and move to the islands. :scared:
 
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Your mother may want to look back at all the physicians that have ever treated her. She may have had a D.O. without knowing. When I told my mother-in-law (very supportive) I had chosen D.O. she called me a short time later to tell me her long-time doctor was a D.O. and she didn't know.

As far as your mom goes, I'd let her know the decision has been made and there is nothing left to talk about. You know what you want and why. You love her, she loves you, you disagree. Be respectful, but let her know where you stand.
 
Wow, this is a great thread. I think we've all gone through similar situations.
Everyday when tell someone in my life, they say "what is that?", then it follows with a questionable congrats. As if I'm applying to some new vodoo of majic and medicine.

But it sounds like you have your head on straight, obviously you feel secure about your decision, you just wish your family, specifically your mom, was on board.

I would get her a book or articles you run by. Pick out the DO's on TV and tell her that ohh, did you know that so and so is a DO? Start talking about the DO's that are doing residencies in "pathology or cardiology" at your area hospital, even if you have to make these people up, It should challenge her perspectives.
then if that doesn't work tell her to f*ck herself. 🙂
good luck my friend
 
I know what it is like to have a family that is not supportive. However, in the end you have to convince yourself of what will make you happy. Although it may take awhile, if you are happy--I would be willing to bet that your family will come around.

At least your family believes in medications and physicians, my family's answer to my aunt have pancreatic cancer is to go to an iridologist, take her off of all treatments and medications and to once again proclaim that "Doctors are quacks." 🙂
 
SusanGMaxwell said:
Just show her the match results. Colleges like LECOM have been very successful in the match. http://lecom.edu/content/uploads/2015/06/2015_LECOM_Match-Summary.pdf Of DO schools, usually around 85% get US residencies. Of Caribbean graduates, it's probabaly half that. Plus, with the upcoming MD/DO merger in 2020, the number of seats for IMG will be extremely low. DO >>> Caribbean IMO!
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Smh. Why.....

And its way more than 85% of DO students who are PLACED into a residency position, dude.
 
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67552931811 said:
Or, you know, you can have a personality and not do what everyone else does.
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You are probably that one guy who wears an afro and walks into lecture 25 minutes late, then argue with the professor about something you are wrong about, and then attend hippy music concerts.

costales said:
You said "around 85% get US residencies." It's blatantly false. Admit it.
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My bad dude, I thought it was 85/95:😀O/MD. Relax. You're safe now.
 
After reading SGM's posts here and in other threads, I have to say that I'm sorry I wasn't around when she got splat by the banhammer. Excellent job by her to necrobump a 10 year old post.

But, teaching moment! She was woefully ignorant of the AOA and ACGME matches, wasn't she? Correct on the 95% match rate, at least.
 
So, since this thread has already been necrobumped, what is the actual DO placement rate?
 
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