Good GS Community Programs

I"m gonna move this to the Surgery forum because I think you'll get more responses there (and do a search for threads in that forum because this subject has come up a lot in the past).

I interviewed at a lot of community programs.

I will name the programs that I would recommend interviewing at. I was impressed with all of the following in one way or another.

Viriginia Mason is a great institution with top notch residents. I didn't get good reviews on the PD at Virginia Mason as a human being, but I also didn't meet him. Other than that, it seems like a great place to be!

The Carolinas was an exciting and impressive place. I personally didn't click with the Carolina program's residents so didn't rank them. It was one of those interviews where I felt like the residents were hiding something the whole time and flowering their answers! The laparoscopy has a great reputation and top notch there.

Good Samaritan in Pheonix is a well known program, with a lot of great attendings. You get to spend some months in Alaska, which most of the residents don't seem to like (I would be ecstatic!). The PD is top notch.

Greenville SC seemed to have a friendly well run small surgery program with beautiful facilities. If you don't care about reputation, but want a great program, this is the one.

Albany Medical Center is a great nonresearch academic institution, with some great consultants who know their stuff. The place can had a traditional hierarchical feel, but residents come out of there really knowing how to operate. Good ancillary staff. City has a bad reputation but is becoming better and better every year. Central to NYC, Boston, Montreal, Syracuse, and 30 mins from hiking in the beautiful Adirondacks.

Iowa Methodist seems have a very friendly, organized, hands on approach with a lot of operating exposure. They are very proud of their program and demand top quality residents.... I got the feeling they only wanted Midwest-grown farm boys/girls.

St. Joseph (Denver) seemed to have great attendings, the residents weren't too happy or excited about their program from the ones I talked to. I was pretty excited about their program though.

Hennepin County (HCMC) in Minneapolis is a great trauma-intensive program with a lot of friendly residents and consultants. It had a laid back feel. I didn't get the feeling the didactics were top-notch here.

Rush would be considered academic research orientated, but I think most of the residents didn't do research. They were friendly down to earth residents who I found I clicked the most with of any program. One negative that stuck out which the residents seemed to tell me is: ancillary staff is severely lacking here.

Swedish was an extremely friendly place (with 2 residents/yr you had better be friendly). They seemed to have a limited exposure to complicated cases, but great interaction with the attendings. They present their cases to a very well-attended once-per-week conference. I didn't get along with the PD, Dr. Hart -- seems kind of cocky.

As you can tell, it's very difficult to remember specifics from my interviews. But these are some of the programs I interviewed at that I would recommend to those who are looking for top quality non research places. I didn't list the ones that I didn't like.

Do a search on this as myself and others have weighed in on this a lot.


CMC in Charlotte is one I always recommend. Top flight and Dr. Greene the chair is a great guy. I think New Hanover Regional in Wilmington, NC would also provide very solid training but I don't know as much about it as I do CMC.

Swimdoc said:

Iowa Methodist seems have a very friendly, hands on approach with a lot of operating exposure. They are very proud of their program and demand top quality residents.... I got the feeling they only wanted Midwest-grown farm boys/girls.

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I second your recommendation of the Iowa Methodist program in Des Moines. Great place to train. Their slant towards Midwest-grown farm boys/girls is mostly due to their applicant pool and not a fundamental bias in their selection process.

I'd also add the program in Wichta, Kansas as a good community program (affiliated with Univ of Kansas) with lots of operative exposure.

FliteSurgn said:

I'd also add the program in Wichta, Kansas as a good community program (affiliated with Univ of Kansas) with lots of operative exposure.

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Yeah, but I heard that some of their interns are real @ssh#les.

Kaiser-LA seemed to be a great program with a very unique teaching philosphy. Their graduates also seemed to land good fellowships (if they persued them). Heavy on didactics and operative experience, maybe a little low on autonomy, but it seems the operative experience makes up for it.

Also I second HCMC as an excellent community program in a vibrant and interesting city.

Regarding Good sam-the poster above is mistaken-Good Sam WAS a good top well known community program-about 4 or 5 years ago when it was run by Dr. Stone-do a google-pioneer in surgery, especially in antibiotic use during op. And a bunch of other stuff-a HUGE dude in surgery. But since he left the current PD is no where in the same galaxy as far as a guy who will get you into fellowships you want and a guy that attracts the same level of residents etc. So dont get fooled by this old rep. I rotated there and would not recomend it in a million years-

A general rule to keep in mind is that a good or great community program may not develop much of a reputation. The big academic programs have national reputations because they send graduates / junior attending all across the country and their research accomplishments are highlighted in the national but relatively small academic community. The mission of a good community program is to train surgeons who will go off to work in relative obscurity, typically in a limited geograpic area. They could be producing god's gift to surgery (at a rate of 2-4/year) but who would know? The scrub techs at XX County general hospital. Certainly not many people who inhabit this board.

I don't mean any of this as to slight community programs. Their mission just doesn't lend itself to developing reliable reputations.

baylor dallas

Pilot Doc said:

A general rule to keep in mind is that a good or great community program may not develop much of a reputation. The big academic programs have national reputations because they send graduates / junior attending all across the country and their research accomplishments are highlighted in the national but relatively small academic community. The mission of a good community program is to train surgeons who will go off to work in relative obscurity, typically in a limited geograpic area. They could be producing god's gift to surgery (at a rate of 2-4/year) but who would know? The scrub techs at XX County general hospital. Certainly not many people who inhabit this board.

I don't mean any of this as to slight community programs. Their mission just doesn't lend itself to developing reliable reputations.

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SDN's sample bias presents itself again.

With desired fellowships being the primary outcome, What you'll find on the interview trail is that there are plenty of "academic" programs that can't place you in competitive fellowships the way excellent university-affiliated community programs can. Obviously, this is one of a million factors to consider when picking a program, but it's one that alot of people use.

I found that some "community" programs (Baylor-dallas, KU-Wichita, MSU-Grand Rapids that I visited) were placing people into Plastics, Surg Onc, Colo-rectal better than the academic centers.

I think there can be a big difference between a straight community program, where there is weak academics/didactics, and you work with private practice docs limiting your autonomy, and the hybrid programs, whose appeal is an attempt at the best of both worlds: training/academics/fellowships of a university program, benefits/luxuries/case loads of a community program.

I'm biased as well, so take all of this with a grain of salt, but I've gotten a taste of a lot of different environments......

I just want to point out for my ego's sake that I'm at a hospital right now that blocks almost every website, including email/espn/cnn/etc, so I'm spending a lot more time on the SDN out of necessity.

Plus, I love the sound of my self-righteous typing.

SLUser11 said:

I just want to point out for my ego's sake that I'm at a hospital right now that blocks almost every website, including email/espn/cnn/etc, so I'm spending a lot more time on the SDN out of necessity.

Plus, I love the sound of my self-righteous typing.

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But of course, you are absolutely correct. There are many good community programs with excellent reputations and placement of residents into prestigious fellowships. And there are "name" programs which do not, or do not necessarily produce the best physicians.

While I'm at it - Christiana Care in Wilmington DE is one of those programs (and a lovely hospital to boot).

Texas A&M Scott and White has a great reputation in Temple, TX

I'll vouch for my own school, Wright State University; great community program, excellent faculty, the residents truly enjoy it here. Downside is living in Dayton, OH.

i'd think about:

baylor-dallas
methodist-houston
texas A&M-temple
maricopa-arizona

all have great reps for training good private practice surgeons with excellent clinical skills, good board pass rates.




waffletamu

Ezangjen said:

I'll vouch for my own school, Wright State University; great community program, excellent faculty, the residents truly enjoy it here. Downside is living in Dayton, OH.

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Isn't this an academic program?? 😕

Amy said:

Isn't this an academic program?? 😕

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I think there's a spectrum of community vs. academic programs; it's an academic program b/c it's at a university, but I would consider it more of a community program b/c research is not heavily emphasized here, residents rotate at 5 different hospitals (working w/ private as well as academic attendings), more than half go into private practice and the attendings are actually nice =).

waffletamu said:

i'd think about:

baylor-dallas
methodist-houston
texas A&M-temple
maricopa-arizona

all have great reps for training good private practice surgeons with excellent clinical skills, good board pass rates.




waffletamu

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I did a rotation at this program as a medical student. This program used to be St. Joseph until it was transferred to Methodist. This is not a good community program by any means. Half of the residents are IMGs. There was a lot of bickering among residents while I was rotating there. Not enough cases and lots of fighting and back stabbing for cases and attention. The program director, Dr. Taylor, is from another planet. He does not know how to run the program and all the residents bad mouth him when asked. I heard he was sued previously by a female resident for sexual harrassment and had to settle out of court. Definitely a program with too much internal problems. I don't know how it will be at Methodist but every year the program has a high attrition rate.

hey thanx for the nice post about the texas programs
i wanted to know how are things at methodist hospital now with new chairman. i know things werent going well will the previous hospital.
is it worth applying to???????

drenthu said:

hey thanx for the nice post about the texas programs
i wanted to know how are things at methodist hospital now with new chairman. i know things werent going well will the previous hospital.
is it worth applying to???????

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I don't know anything about the new chairman. Just heard from some residents while I was there that the new chairman was some big shot from Maryland. Big into training female surgeons. That is a change from the mentality there. A female resident once told me that she overheard the PD at St. Joseph said that female surgeons are book smart but cannot perform or make critical medical decisions under pressure. I didn't apply to this program because of its history and transition status. I guess you can't really judge any new program until 3-5 yrs into it.