So how good is Harvard really...?

If you are really curious, maybe post this in the Dental forum, you might get an answer from an actual student, not a guess from a pre-dent.👍

depends on your personal goals I guess.... Some people like the "Harvard" name on their diploma, and some people really wanna go there for the research opportunity.

As far as paying "arm and a leg", I don't think its true if your looking at tuition mostly. Its 42,000 per year, which is lower than many other schools out there.

Harvard is kinda funny, they only take 35 students each year out of the 1000 who apply. I personally didn't apply to Harvard cause I don't believe I got the "stats" to get in..... Other wise I woulda applied because its just another dental school.

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emu said:

But I guess if You love research and/or want to go into academia then it's a good school.

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How many dentists actually go into academia afterwards? I don't think there are that many. I actually want to go into dental academia, but am having a very hard time trying to find someone that graduated from dental school and is actively involved in academia so I can talk to them about their experience. Most of the people I talk to that are even close to this situation are clinical instructors or specialists that teach specific classes. Very few actually do academic or research dentistry.

Seems like faculty that do research in oral medicine don't need a DMD/DDS degree. Are there people that do the research but at the same time, have the option to translate that research into practice?? I'm assuming in order to translate research to practice you would need a DMD/DDS degree...?

if you look at harvard's specialization stats, about 2/3's of the class goes to ortho residency, 2/3 to OMFS, and the other 2/3 do a mix of other specializations. when you break that down to a % basis, that's pretty amazing.

people hate on harvard because they think the people who go there have an air of arrogance about themselves, which is simply not true. harvard has historically attracted world-class faculty, received major NIH grants, and is a med-school/PBL program. all of these components translate into one important point = harvard offers a plethora of resources to its students, which is why those who are accepted go in the first place.

this doesn't mean that it's better or worse than other schools. like every dental school, harvard has its own unique 'package'. if you like it, apply/attend. if not, no reason talk s***.

flapaTron said:

if you look at harvard's specialization stats, about 2/3's of the class goes to ortho residency, 2/3 to OMFS, and the other 2/3 do a mix of other specializations. when you break that down to a % basis, that's pretty amazing.

people hate on harvard because they think the people who go there have an air of arrogance about themselves, which is simply not true. harvard has historically attracted world-class faculty, received major NIH grants, and is a med-school/PBL program. all of these components translate into one important point = harvard offers a plethora of resources to its students, which is why those who are accepted go in the first place.

this doesn't mean that it's better or worse than other schools. like every dental school, harvard has its own unique 'package'. if you like it, apply/attend. if not, no reason talk s***.

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You have "2/3"s listed three times. That doesnt add up correctly. lolol

oae said:

You have "2/3"s listed three times. That doesnt add up correctly. lolol

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Obviously Harvard is so awesome that twice the number of students enrolled go into specialties!

Kidding aside, flapaTron, I am applying there this year but haven't heard anything from them since submission. What's going on over there? I heard maybe a staff turnover?

I called today and was told that if you got an email stating your app is complete, they are looking at your file. Interviews should start sometime in Oct. Good luck all!

nope, 2/3 + 2/3 + 2/3 = 1. harvard is THAT good...

obviously a mistake, but in dental school, you can put your Quantitative reasoning skills to rest (as I obviously have).

don't worry about the admissions office. harvard is one of the better schools when if comes to processing applications in a timely fashion.

txlonghorn said:

I called today and was told that if you got an email stating your app is complete, they are looking at your file. Interviews should start sometime in Oct. Good luck all!

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Nope didn't get that either. Womp womp. All they've done is cash my check, lol.

XZeRO said:

How many dentists actually go into academia afterward? I don't think there are that many. I actually want to go into dental academia, but am having a very hard time trying to find someone that graduated from dental school and is actively involved in academia so I can talk to them about their experience. Most of the people I talk to that are even close to this situation are clinical instructors or specialists that teach specific classes. Very few actually do academic or research dentistry.

Seems like faculty that do research in oral medicine don't need a DMD/DDS degree. Are there people that do the research but at the same time, have the option to translate that research into practice?? I'm assuming in order to translate research to practice you would need a DMD/DDS degree...?

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XZeRO,


There aren't many dentists going into academia. For the past few years, there have been hundreds of vacant, fully funded faculty positions waiting for those academic dentists to get their PhD's and sign up for a life in academia. In other words, your observation, that it is almost impossible to find a dentist who is in academia, is very accurate. Truly, this is a significant problem for the profession. There are not enough people generating new knowledge through research, or transferring existing knowledge through teaching. Those who teach are often disconnected from the science that should inform clinical progress (http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/hisham/Documents/Medical Education/English/Dental Education/82.pdf) It is also a significant opportunity for people like you.

I can speak a little (okay, I could talk your ear off about this stuff!) about my own experience.

I have applied to schools that offer combined PhD programs, and hope to help fill one of those slots one day.

Your question about research translation is a great question. YES! There are many dentists who split their time between basic research and clinical research. I am no expert on the subject, but I would argue that, as a dentist, you will have a unique opportunity to do that kind of translational research. The dentist with an interest and talent in basic research is a rare breed, and your niche would be an easy place to launch a successful career. I worked in a lab the did basic research using viruses to transfer genes to the salivary glands. Most of the researchers were dentists, and the lab developed the vector that was eventually used in salivary gland targeted gene therapy trials.

There are many straight PhD's who do dental research. They work with dentists, and can translate their research into the clinic through collaborations with dentists. The reason I am not interested in this path is because I like working in the clinic. It is also comforting to know that, should, god forbid, science funding run dry, I can always go into private practice and make a living.

Check out Dr. Tabek's (biased, he is the director of the NIDCR) take on the subject of dental research:
http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F5C0F69B-4D37-4957-837F-59C48B372701/0/CareerInOHR.pdf

Having worked at the NIDCR, I have to say that the dentists who go into research are a very enjoyable group of folks. I wouldn't even consider applying to dental school if private practice was the only option. I know that some might find it rewarding, but doing the same procedures every day for decades would not be something to get excited about every morning (for me, although I know many very happy dentists). Mentoring, teaching, doing research, and working with patients is the alternative that academic dentistry offers. There's nothing I would rather do.

The financial rewards of private practice are, in the long term, greater than in academia. I have justified my decision in two ways.

The first is that there are some very attractive funding opportunities for combined programs through the T32 grants. There is also loan payback once you graduate, and some NIH programs will pay back the loans and even the taxes that you would have to pay for the money that they give you.

Aside from the financial justification, I know that research teaching and clinical care are things that I enjoy. I will get paid a very fine salary for doing something I love. When I consider that I might be foregoing some additional income; that is a pretty cheap price to pay for the privilege of doing what I love. The truth is, the difference is not even that significant. When you consider the value of your pension, the loan payback, the stipend while in dental school, the fact that you don't have to start up a practice, you really aren't making a significant sacrifice. By no means are you taking a vow of poverty to do research.

I hope I've answered some of your questions. Please contact me when you decide to move forward, I'd love to help in any way I can.
Very best wishes,
Drew

My email is [email protected]. Remove the AND...

Well written doctor! I am very pleased to find someone whom I can totally agree with. Yea, I am also aiming for dual degree program which not many predents appreciate. Even my direct boss who is already in a DDS/PhD program did not recommend me to apply for it mainly due to limited utility if any of extra PhD degree with regards to the earning potential of this career. He did not forget to add unless I am really really passionate about researching or teaching, MBA might be a much better way to go considering the amount of time and stress to get a phD. Now, I have been in a research field for almost two years and I gradually understand what he really meant. Frankly, I am not quite sure now whether I am crazy about research as when I put my first step in this field, rather two years of time helped me to accept this is the thing I feel most comfortable with and this is what my life is meant to be, who knows I might find something really cool that will greatly help oral cancer patients in the future (two years were not enough for me to drop this romantic dream). Anyway I gotta go to harvest cells, which means I will spend whole my weekend in this lab doing western blots, RT PCR so on so on. Have a nice weekend guys!

Thank you. (not a doctor, or even dental student yet though, I'm finishing up my 2 year stint teaching 2nd grade in rural Louisiana)

Sad to hear that your boss didn't recommend the program. I could see his point about the extra 3 years being a waste of time. Again, considering that you are going to school for free, and getting a stipend, the only cost is opportunity. You could be in private practice, paying back your hundreds of thousands in student loans and business loans. Or you could be working on your PhD with nearly no debt, getting paid peanuts and the chance of perfecting your western blot skills. Neither option is very glamorous or lucrative when you think about it. The first few years in either path are going to be difficult. While I have done neither, I would imagine that opening up a practice is just as stressful as working on a PhD.

Your closing words/weekend plans are my main concern about this path. I intend to have a balanced life, and spend time with my family. While I know many in research do work those 60-70 hour weeks, I'm pretty sure that I can have my quality of life and a rewarding career.

Don't drop those romantic dreams! Pragmatic dentists will always be there, the profession needs some more dreamers who are excited about the possibility of improving oral health in dramatic ways.

Good luck to you on those tissue cultures and assays...enjoy the peacefulness of the shakers and centrifuges,
Drew