Getting into Psych

R Sterling · Apr 25, 2011

I've been looking for externship/observerships in psychiatry, but I'm not having any luck. I also can't locate a research position, despite giving my best effort. What else can I do to improve my application so I can apply to psych next cycle? Currently, I'm working with some doctors from an academic hospital, and I've asked them for help to get my foot in the door at the psych dept, but i'm not getting much from them (I'm working with them outside of the hospital). A friend suggested that I work towards getting a CASAC-T cert, and that I can take a lot of the courses through distance learning. I have been working my way towards the required hours. Is it worth even working to get? Any help will be great.

Thank you.

Bartelby · Apr 25, 2011

I think we need some context here. Are you a US medical student? A foreign medical graduate? Have you applied to Psychiatry this past cycle and been rejected? Why do you need to do an externship/observership (to get in enough US clinical hours?)? All of that will be important.

As for research it would be nice, but Psychiatry is not one of the highly competitive specialties. If you have good board scores and clinical evaluations you can make it into residency without research.

I don't know what that certification you mentioned is.

R Sterling · Apr 25, 2011

Bartelby said:
I think we need some context here. Are you a US medical student? A foreign medical graduate? Have you applied to Psychiatry this past cycle and been rejected? Why do you need to do an externship/observership (to get in enough US clinical hours?)? All of that will be important.

As for research it would be nice, but Psychiatry is not one of the highly competitive specialties. If you have good board scores and clinical evaluations you can make it into residency without research.

I don't know what that certification you mentioned is.

I'm sorry, I didn't post my stats because users on here would usually search through your old posts to figure out your story. I've had similar post where I'm seeking help, so I didn't want to repost the same old stuff. They frown upon that sort of stuff on here.

Anyway, here it goes: Canadian, need visa, Caribbean school grad, I did all my clinical rotations in the US, including psych. I didn't match for 2 cycles, and I only got 3 psych interviews total in the prior cycle. I'm doing an externship (I'm allowed to be hands on) privately with some cardio docs because that's all I could find. Scores: 211-213-220 Steps 1,2, and 3 respectively. No failures. The CASAC-T cert is through New York State. It stands for Credentialed Alcohol and Substance Abuse Counselor. All you gotta do it take some courses online, take a test at the end of each course, and you get the credit, and build up your hours. I really don't have the intention of getting this cert because I'm obviously canadian, but I'm just taking the courses because I figure the're somewhat psych related. http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/sqa/credentialing/CASACCover.cfm

Back to the main point of this thread--What else can I do to improve my application for psych beside research and an externship/observership? I'm still constantly seeking them because it's still early in the process, but I don't want to have time passing by without something happening.

Thank you.

Bartelby · Apr 25, 2011

Honestly I'm surprised you haven't matched-- your step scores are all solid passes, you are a native English speaker, lots of US clinical experience. That all gives you a leg up, and I bet having passed step 3 is a good feather in your cap as well.

Any feedback from programs about why they did not rank you? It would help to ask specifics-- maybe they got the feeling that Psych was not really your top interest, or maybe one of your rec letters secretly trashes you, maybe there are red flags in your clinical evaluations, maybe it's something else altogether. Addressing any shortcomings specifically would be the best course of action presumably. Also do research into which programs more readily sponsor visas, that would help narrow who to apply to, and apply very widely.

Good luck to you, hopefully some residents will chime in (as I'm an applying med student as well) and go over things either of us may not have considered.

393656 · Apr 25, 2011

Something does not add up. Either you are not sharing your simply you do not realize there is some huge red flag on your application. There are TONS of foreign grads. One is in my class for example. Carribean grad. With your stats psych should have never been an issue.

My wild guess is one of your letters is terrible or mistakenly reccomends you for surgery or something. That is always a deal breaker. Or you applied to numerous specialities and programs could tell based on generic letters or personal statements.

And the interviews you got perhaps you just did not close the deal. I only went on 3 interviews by choice but matched so I do not think 3 the reason.

Good luck though-please ask programs for feedback. that is by far the best way and your best shot. To be honet if you dont match 3 times in a row you will almost have an impossible time matching after that. Then your step scores start to expire after 5 years I believe and its pretty much over. Make sure you get feedback and do it right this time around! You can do it-stay motivated man!

I am a US citizen but originally from canada-us canadians are tough! Keep at it

digitlnoize · Apr 25, 2011

There are other factors too:

How many programs did you apply to in those cycles?
How early did you apply?
Any issues during school? Failures? Year repeats?
Other common red flags (honor/ethics violation, cheating, criminal hx, substance use)?

R Sterling · Apr 26, 2011

Thanks for your help. I have not seen my letter of recs, but I was told by the person at my school who reviews our letters that it is good. They don't let us apply with bad letters. I did encounter a sticky situation during one psych interview where one of the interviewer asked my why did one of my letter recommend me for internal medicine (I had my IM attending write me a letter) but I did not know this, as I haven't read any of them. I do have a psych letter. I did a neuro rotation, so I think I will try to get a letter from that guy, but I will let him know my interest in psych. My letters are getting old, so I'm going to reuse the psych letter as it was written last year and get new ones from the cardio guys. I'll ask my school what did those letters say exactaly.

Oh, as far as red flags go- no criminal record, cheating, academic misconduct, failures, repeats, substance abuse, and whatever you can think of. I'm a good boy. My friend has suggested that because I look intimidating (extremely tall with an average build), it's turning them off from matching me. Silly, I know. I did apply September 1st and I applied all over the place and to 3 specialties (FM, IM and Psych). ~175 programs total.

Anything else? Is psych that easy, it's in the bag for me next round?

st2205 · Apr 26, 2011

R Sterling said:
Thanks for your help. I have not seen my letter of recs, but I was told by the person at my school who reviews our letters that it is good. They don't let us apply with bad letters. I did encounter a sticky situation during one psych interview where one of the interviewer asked my why did one of my letter recommend me for internal medicine (I had my IM attending write me a letter) but I did not know this, as I haven't read any of them. I do have a psych letter. I did a neuro rotation, so I think I will try to get a letter from that guy, but I will let him know my interest in psych. My letters are getting old, so I'm going to reuse the psych letter as it was written last year and get new ones from the cardio guys. I'll ask my school what did those letters say exactaly.

Oh, as far as red flags go- no criminal record, cheating, academic misconduct, failures, repeats, substance abuse, and whatever you can think of. I'm a good boy. My friend has suggested that because I look intimidating (extremely tall with an average build), it's turning them off from matching me. Silly, I know. I did apply September 1st and I applied all over the place and to 3 specialties (FM, IM and Psych). ~175 programs total.

Anything else? Is psych that easy, it's in the bag for me next round?

See above.

393656 · Apr 26, 2011

Bingo-a letter recommending you for IM. Unfortunately that little mistake by the author of the letter makes you look really bad. From the interviewers point of view they immediately think you applied to both specialities at least if not more. Immediately they discount your interest in psychiatry and its lights out a lot of the time.

Also makes you look like the guy clearly did not know you. No offense but none of my letter writers would have mistaken me for going into IM and not everyone knew me that well. I think that speaks to the quality of the letter.

Last it could make you look desperate as you "had to" use a bad letter since you couldnt get any better ones.

I am not saying this is all true but that is the kind of stuff that comes to the admissions people's mind. You were looking for an explanation why you are not getting in and I am willing to bet this is a huge part of it. Change that letter and you should be good to go!

digitlnoize · Apr 26, 2011

Agreed ^^^

What about the hx of applying to multiple specialties? If you apply to FM, IM, and Psych at the same institution will they know that you've done that?

It certainly could make it look like you're just applying to psych as a "backup" option, not as a legitimate interest. I'd also go overboard to make your commitment known in any way you can.

R Sterling · Apr 26, 2011

I did confirm this with my school, 2 of my 3 non psych letters recommended me for IM. I'm not going to use them again, and I'm looking into getting better ones. The reason why I applied to 3 specialties is because as a foreign grad, it's suggested that we apply to everything we can. My school suggests that to everyone.
I did email PDs at programs I have interviewed at asking them for feedback, and so far 1 has gotten back to me. He said they did rank me, but lower on the list and there were no particular issues with my application. He did say that since I haven't matched for 2 cycles, I should have some work experience, and that observerships and externships dont count!! Anyway, I just gotta find some psych related work experience now. Thanks everyone.

digitlnoize · Apr 26, 2011

R Sterling said:
I did confirm this with my school, 2 of my 3 non psych letters recommended me for IM. I'm not going to use them again, and I'm looking into getting better ones. The reason why I applied to 3 specialties is because as a foreign grad, it's suggested that we apply to everything we can. My school suggests that to everyone.
I did email PDs at programs I have interviewed at asking them for feedback, and so far 1 has gotten back to me. He said they did rank me, but lower on the list and there were no particular issues with my application. He did say that since I haven't matched for 2 cycles, I should have some work experience, and that observerships and externships dont count!! Anyway, I just gotta find some psych related work experience now. Thanks everyone.

Good luck!

393656 · Apr 27, 2011

Damn well you answered your own question. 2 out of 3?? No offense but you really should have something more than 1 psych letter vouching for you. That does look really bad. The sad thing is you applied 2 cycles with this> Poeple will remember you and its not going to be easy. I would apply to different programs.

Best of luck!

Getting into Psych

R Sterling

Full Member

Bartelby

Full Member

R Sterling

Full Member

Bartelby

Full Member

393656

digitlnoize

Rock God

R Sterling

Full Member

st2205

Attending

393656

digitlnoize

Rock God

R Sterling

Full Member

digitlnoize

Rock God

393656

Similar threads