Value of doing a research year in EM residency apps?

Just speaking for myself. I would see it as a strong positive for someone with a real interest in research and academics.

Most of the time, though, it seems to be a temporizing measure for those who failed to match. For that group, I think a prelim year might be a better choice.

I am looking into doing a research year b/t years 3 and 4. I've done a lot of gait and sports biomechanics work in the past, but now I want something more related to the field that made me go into medicine in the first place: EM. Does anyone know of any good places/programs/people that I should contact?

Please feel free to PM me, and thanks in advance.

surebreC said:

Has anyone here done a research year and if so, was it beneficial in your residency apps for EM? I am strongly considering doing a research year, probably something related to health care in developing nations (i.e. Fogarty) and am curious if this will be looked upon positively, indifferently, or negatively by EM residency directors.

Click to expand...

of course, only do it if you're truly interested, but if so it seems like a strong committment to academics is viewed positively (at least this was my impression the trail)

RxnMan said:

I am looking into doing a research year b/t years 3 and 4. I've done a lot of bioengineering work in the past, but now I want something more related to the field that made me go into medicine in the first place: EM. Does anyone know of any good places/programs/people that I should contact?

Please feel free to PM me, and thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

Ahem!

I'm not sure where you are, but there are physician scientists at BIDMC, Penn, UChicago, UPitt, UCLA-Harbor, Emory, U Rochester, U Maryland, St. Lukes Roosevelt, Jefferson, and many more spots all over the country. A lot of EM basic research involves trauma, reperfusion injury, sepsis, etc. Emory has been working with bioengineer types on head trauma stuff, so you could have your cake and eat it, too. I'm sure other programs have stuff like that, but this is just off the top of my head.

Of course, if you are considering a foray into clinical research, almost any place with a residency program should have excellent PIs to work with. Feel free to PM me.

RxnMan said:

I am looking into doing a research year b/t years 3 and 4. I've done a lot of gait and sports biomechanics work in the past, but now I want something more related to the field that made me go into medicine in the first place: EM. Does anyone know of any good places/programs/people that I should contact?

Please feel free to PM me, and thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

I think EM is one specialty where research is less important. More important would be clerkship grades, EM letters, USMLE scores, outside interests, cool personality, fun to work with, not a tool, etc. I think doing research will definitely bolster your CV and be a positive (if you want to go to an academic program and continue research) But it's nothing like getting into med school where you need to do research as a rite of passage.

Even if I was interested in basic science research, I would question the utility of taking a year off to do research during med school. You have prior research experience, so people will believe you when you tell them you want to do research. You will have no problem getting into a great residency without taking that year, as long as all the stuff I mentioned earlier is decent. Then - after you graduate from residency - do a research fellowship at one of the institutions know for the kind of research you want to do. i.e. resus - go to U Chicago or Ford, stroke go to Cincy, Cardiovascular go to UPMC, etc. That way you will avail yourself of the best resources, be in a position to do REAL research (not just med student stuff), make a name for yourself, and make money at the same time ('cause you'll also be a doc working in the ED)

Eh, my motivation was more "outside interest" than "bolster CV." But your point is well taken. Others who responded via PM had similar thoughts. I'll have to rethink things. Thanks.

Consider a 4 year program. One of the major benefits is extra elective time, usually 6-7 months which can be used for research. I know adding an extra year onto residency would seem to be the same as adding an extra year onto med school, but with the electives spread across the 4 years you have more time to do research. This will allow you to have a project that may last several years, opening things up to prospective research or larger projects that may require grants, etc. For example, you could take a month in second year as research to get stuff started with IRB, then collect data over the next year, and then submit and finalize in your final year. Just a thought. I think you can voice this well enough in an interview that you won't need to do the research before residency.

Because you have framed this as something you would do for personal reasons, I would say go for it.

Taking time off, to do and explore things one likes, is a very wise decision. If you like research and you want to do soemthing, you should do it. YOu will have precious little time to dedicate to something you enjoy (outside of EM) once you start residency. The maturity of this decision and the exploration of something you love, that has the added benefit of improving your CV is not a bad idea.

I'm also strongly considering doing a clinical research fellowship during my 3-4th yrs. My reasoning though is that the fellowship program I'm interested in (which is at the NIH) includes a seminar on many aspects of conducting clinical research, a class on clinical pharmacology, journal clubs, etc. with top clinical researchers and I feel like while the argument can be made that I would get this training and research experience during residency or fellowship, if I can gain these skills/knowledge base now, it will both make things easier and enable me to do higher level work later. But, I'm just an M2, what do I know? Could folks in academic medicine (Roja, etc.) comment on my reasoning here and whether a program like this could be worth it? Because I would never consider taking a year off just to do research. It's the additional programs/classes/etc. that come with this particular program that make it seem potentially worthwhile.

Any current thoughts on this idea of taking a year off? Has anyone done this and can you comment on how it may have made you better a candidate/resident? Also, for a reputable program such as Doris Duke, does that make a bigger impact?

It's interesting that RxnMan (above), with thousands of posts, did a research year but then dropped out of sight at match time last year, I believe without ever commenting on how he did.

True, but he was nice enough to PM me.

value in helping you get into EM residency: medium to low

value to you personally: possibly high

I would recommend doing a research fellowship after residency if you want it to be highest yield for your career.

If your heart says do a research year then do it. Only you know what is best for you.

BUT: make darned sure your ERAS application lets us know why you elected to take this time off. When we see a large time gap with inadequate or even no explanation it raises flags you will never lower. We'd rather you over-explain something then leave us guessing.

I think there might be something wrong with me. We have a healthy scribe program at my job. Some are pre med, many are pre pa. The continued process of waiting a year to apply for this that and the other reason make no sense. I get it if the individual application isnt great but some of them are sure to get in but do some weird thing for a year without any good reasoning.

I believe on the saying... Keep your eye on the prize. My interpretation is set a goal and work your balls off to get to that goal without being sidetracked. Why would anyone do research before residency. There is ample time (and a requirement) in residency to do research Do it there. If you like it go into academics and do more research. Why waste a year doing it during med school?

EM is competetive but it isnt Derm where research is almost a pre-req.

If your goal is academic EM go for it during residency or after residency where you at least get paid some. Then you have a better idea where you want to focus your research. As a med student it would be hard to guide the research IMO.

mom2doc said:

It's interesting that RxnMan (above), with thousands of posts, did a research year but then dropped out of sight at match time last year, I believe without ever commenting on how he did.

Click to expand...

Fair enough.

EMmotherhen said:

If your heart says do a research year then do it. Only you know what is best for you.

BUT: make darned sure your ERAS application lets us know why you elected to take this time off. When we see a large time gap with inadequate or even no explanation it raises flags you will never lower. We'd rather you over-explain something then leave us guessing.

Click to expand...

There's a big difference between "just taking a year out" and what I did (DDCRF, NIH-Med Scholars).

A classmate took a year out at our institution expressly because he didn't believe he was competitive for his desired specialty. He spent a year, and I don't know if he published, but he certainly didn't have any sort of organized curriculum. He didn't match to his desired specialty, and I don't believe his investment of time was worthwhile.

I spent a year learning how to design studies from the guys who define clinical research in this country. I was told what separates good research from bad from the guys who review grant applications. I participated in groundbreaking research, much of which has been directly applicable to my work in residency. Because of my year out, I'm more effective and get more done, so I can move projects forward despite my limited time as an intern. And I matched to an incredible training program that fully supports my goal of being a clinician-scientist.

EctopicFetus said:

...Why waste a year doing it during med school?...

Click to expand...

My year out was keeping my eye on the prize.