Racism while practicing?

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predent1891

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I am asian and have lived in California all my life. I also attended a very diverse and liberal U.C college and a very diverse high school. I then moved to the east coast for dental school and on multiple accounts I have experienced racism. I am actually quite shocked by how much racism, hatred, and "elitism" still exists.

This past weekend, I was in Atlantic City, New Jersey to have some fun before school started again. I was minding my own business when a group of white males in their late 20's/early 30's come stand right behind me while I'm at the blackjack table and blatantly and consistently refer to me as an "egg-roll" the entire time I am playing. They were talking loudly and clearly for me to hear, and I kept looking back at them to give them a glare. There have been other instances during this weekend trip where white people have given me strange looks and I overheard them snickering "asian this" and "asian that".

I have been set on practicing community dentistry and was super excited about the prospects of moving somewhere completely foreign to me for a couple years after dental school. I was considering places like South Carolina, Alabama, or Ohio because I wanted to get away from super urban cities. But after this summer of visiting different cities on the east coast, I am starting to believe that racism is much more common on this side of the states,and I am actually feeling quite disappointed.

What are your thoughts? Have you guys experienced racism while practicing?
 
I'm Asian Indian, and I've been called the n-word while bicycling in my smaller sized city, as in you n-word get off the f-ing road.
Try leaving the coast of California or go to Southern Oregon. In Oregon, a few doors shut when I was walking through a small downtown. Or in London when I went on a run with a small backpack I could hear doors locking to major hotels and business that normally don't have locked doors. It's not just the East Coast. And I'm sure you could find it in your major cities of California.
My boss (from Poland), who is a research professor at a university, asked me and my co-worker (who also happens to be Indian) why we were huddled talking and if we were planning a bomb. So yes. It sucks to have these experiences, but I'd rather live in the real world than live in a super diverse community and never experience the world for what it is.
 
Racism is alive and well lol. This is relevant I think even outside of medicine http://www.npr.org/2013/05/01/178442772/for-a-black-doctor-building-trust-by-slowing-down

Sorry you had to have culture shock but racism is actually pretty damn common everywhere. Some people have learned to be more subtle about it but it's rampant.

I've had a guy say to me "That's why I never go to a gook dentist" I put my drink in his lap of course but it's not like I ended racism there. That's not my example of subtle btw lol
 
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predent1891 said:
I am asian and have lived in California all my life. I also attended a very diverse and liberal U.C college and a very diverse high school. I then moved to the east coast for dental school and on multiple accounts I have experienced racism. I am actually quite shocked by how much racism, hatred, and "elitism" still exists.

This past weekend, I was in Atlantic City, New Jersey to have some fun before school started again. I was minding my own business when a group of white males in their late 20's/early 30's come stand right behind me while I'm at the blackjack table and blatantly and consistently refer to me as an "egg-roll" the entire time I am playing. They were talking loudly and clearly for me to hear, and I kept looking back at them to give them a glare. There have been other instances during this weekend trip where white people have given me strange looks and I overheard them snickering "asian this" and "asian that".

I have been set on practicing community dentistry and was super excited about the prospects of moving somewhere completely foreign to me for a couple years after dental school. I was considering places like South Carolina, Alabama, or Ohio because I wanted to get away from super urban cities. But after this summer of visiting different cities on the east coast, I am starting to believe that racism is much more common on this side of the states,and I am actually feeling quite disappointed.

What are your thoughts? Have you guys experienced racism while practicing?
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California can be just as racist and elitist as some of these "east coast states". You've lived in one part of the east coast for a couple of years and only visited a couple of East coast cities. You shouldn't draw such broad conclusions from your limited time.

In California, Huntington Beach, Laguna Beach, Santa Cruz, etc are filled with Bible thumping whites. Whatever lack of racism you may perceive to be in California, California makes up for it with a much higher degree of snobbery, elitism, and materialism than the east coast. Also hate to break it to you, but minorities can be just as racist towards other minorities as whites can. As a minority, I have experienced more racism from other minorities than I have from whites. I've also heard waaay worse than "Egg roll"

That being said racism is alive and well in America. I would recommend going through an electoral map of the Republican primaries and see which counties (located near where you think you might want to practice) voted for crazy Evangelical Republicans like Gingrich, Santorum, Rick Perry, etc and I would AVOID them. I would avoid obvious places like Alabama, Mississippi, and the "Bible belt". Also avoid Florida.
 
ortho lurker said:
That's why an Asian dentist would not do well in those types of communities.
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I highly disagree with that. California is very diverse. I am a white guy, and I have never been to a Caucasian physician in my life; only to Indian and Asian physicians.

Shunwei practices in Texas, and he has stated elsewhere that he doesn't feel any prejudice/racism there. And he's and Asian dude.

😕
 
Silent Cool said:
I highly disagree with that. California is very diverse. I am a white guy, and I have never been to a Caucasian physician in my life; only to Indian and Asian physicians.

Shunwei practices in Texas, and he has stated elsewhere that he doesn't feel any prejudice/racism there. And he's and Asian dude.

😕
Click to expand...

I was basing that off a delta dentist search for those communities. Type in "Rowland Heights" or "Garden Grove" and compare how many more Asian dentists last names are in those cities compared to the previous 3 listed. Of the Asian dentists who choose to stay in California, they are either a.) missing out on the higher end communities or b.) feel they have a better shot at more ethnic diverse neighborhoods despite having to duke it out for lower fees.
 
America is the only country, where I can get to where I am today. I came to this country at the age of 16 and didn't speak a word of English. I was able to attend all the US schools just like the White kids who were born and raised here. When I applied for ortho, the white ortho program director picked me over my white UCLA dental classmate, who does not only have a better appearance but also a better board score than me. This pretty much tells me how wonderful this country is.

I mentioned on my other posts that I bought an existing practice from a white orthodontist. And sure, I've experienced racism while practicing dentistry but this is extremely rare. I don't think I would be able to get to where I am today if I went to another highly developed country such as France, England, Germany, Japan, Korea etc. America is the best country in the world and I am so proud to be the citizen of this great nation👍.
 
charlestweed said:
America is the only country, where I can get to where I am today. I came to this country at the age of 16 and didn't speak a word of English. I was able to attend all the US schools just like the White kids who were born and raised here. When I applied for ortho, the white ortho program director picked me over my white UCLA dental classmate, who does not only have a better appearance but also a better board score than me. This pretty much tells me how wonderful this country is.

I mentioned on my other posts that I bought an existing practice from a white orthodontist. And sure, I've experienced racism while practicing dentistry but this is extremely rare. I don't think I would be able to get to where I am today if I went to another highly developed country such as France, England, Germany, Japan, Korea etc. America is the best country in the world and I am so proud to be the citizen of this great nation👍.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. However, I think the culture/work ethic of America is going down quickly. Hard work and individualism (which made America great) are being tossed aside in favor of an entitlement and collectivist attitude (which leads nowhere). It is important for us to remember what made America great and not elect buffoons who have some warped ideas that are not really in line with what America is about.
 
charlestweed said:
America is the only country, where I can get to where I am today. ... America is the best country in the world and I am so proud to be the citizen of this great nation.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this, charlestweed. Uplifting and inspiring.
 
Ok man i totally feel you, hence i am worried about pursuing dentistry to the fullest, because all the desirable locations are fairly saturated and a rural area is certainly isn't an option for a non white what's so ever for the most part. Especially if you are brown or black, you will lose business.
 
I'm sorry you experienced raw intolerance, predent1891. All my life I've wondered when we're going to grow up and move past this awful stuff. It's better than it was, but it's certainly not where it could be.

Just speaking for the moment of the practice of dentistry, and not considering any broader questions of society or the total context of any particular community--

If you think about it logically, intolerance and ethical medical treatment are mutually exclusive propositions. In fact, intolerance and business are mutually exclusive propositions.

What I mean is, why wouldn't a dentist want to treat any respectful, paying patient at all? And, conversely and more to the point here, why wouldn't any rational patient want to see the best dentist within reasonable geographic range, "best" being defined by just about every consideration we can think of together here except race, religion etc.?

But of course, and alas, human beings are far from rational...

And yet.

When it comes to your future dental practice, do not worry.
There's a dichotomy in marketing--
There's "I'm the best you must come to me Everyone capital E should come to me me me!"
And then there's "We've built something remarkable and respectful and sustainable, and if it's for you, we'd love to hear from you."

If, predent1891, you build that second sort of practice, you won't have to worry about the people who won't come to you because you're Asian-- for the simple reason that those people aren't for you, and you don't need or want them anyway.

The second type of practice takes bravery. I know, because when I first graduated, I thought the first type of practice was the only kind there was. So foolish was I, back in my salad days. But that was in an era of mass marketing and mass production and mass media and just mass everything, and we all thought that way because the whole world around us did too.

Now, the world consists of more and more tiny, unique silos. "The Long Tail." And people can find you easily. The people who you're for, I mean. And they're the only ones that matter. Just go out and build something remarkable for them.

Intolerance: the fastest of all the social cues that tell us someone is an idiot.
 
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DentinBond said:
impressive personal and business philosophies
Click to expand...

are you a GP? if yes, pm me your contact info so that i may associate in your practice after school.

pretty serious.
 
charlestweed said:
America is the only country, where I can get to where I am today. I came to this country at the age of 16 and didn't speak a word of English. I was able to attend all the US schools just like the White kids who were born and raised here. When I applied for ortho, the white ortho program director picked me over my white UCLA dental classmate, who does not only have a better appearance but also a better board score than me. This pretty much tells me how wonderful this country is.

I mentioned on my other posts that I bought an existing practice from a white orthodontist. And sure, I've experienced racism while practicing dentistry but this is extremely rare. I don't think I would be able to get to where I am today if I went to another highly developed country such as France, England, Germany, Japan, Korea etc. America is the best country in the world and I am so proud to be the citizen of this great nation👍.
Click to expand...
I agree.

I came to this country on a student visa from East Africa 12 years ago. Got my US citizen after I finished dental school, and am very very grateful for all the opportunities this country gave me, far more than my native country; a great profession and a great community to live in. I have 3 practices, and I have never had a patient who looked down on my background or questioned my race or religion. Most of my patients are white, granted where I live and practice is in the midwest, these are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. This is not to say that there are no negative people in my city, but knock-on-wood, I would have to look hard to find them, and they are not just Americans, but also foreign nationals.

To the OP: I lived in Boston during my dental school years, and based on my experience, the entire east coast (specifically north-east; new york, new jersey, etc) is far more less friendly on average than the rest of the country. I use to go to MGM Casinos in Connecticut during dental school, and I use to see a lot of Asians on almost all tables on the floor, and was always intrigued how skillful they played, and I think some people (younger adults) mostly hate on them when they see people having fun.

Like Charles said, this is a great nation, and don't let few bad experiences get in your way in enjoying a great life in the US.

Good luck!
 
Gatsu said:
Ok man i totally feel you, hence i am worried about pursuing dentistry to the fullest, because all the desirable locations are fairly saturated and a rural area is certainly isn't an option for a non white what's so ever for the most part. Especially if you are brown or black, you will lose business.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty ignorant statement!

Practicing in a rural area myself, we have about 1/3rd of the 70 dentists in my component society who are of "non Caucasian" ethnicities, and if you want to include non caucasian males into that demographic, it goes up to about 2/3rds of my component society in my rural area. And nobody is hurting practice wise.

Here's a little tidbit to take to heart. Regardless of one's race, sex, etc, there will always be patients who don't like you. You just can't make everyone happy or have all patients "connect" with you, that's just a fact of life.

If you just provide the best service you can and treat people the way YOU'D want to be treated yourself, the rest will take care of itself regardless of the color of one's skin, the accent that you may have, or the bathroom that you use
 
DrJeff said:
That's a pretty ignorant statement!

Practicing in a rural area myself, we have about 1/3rd of the 70 dentists in my component society who are of "non Caucasian" ethnicities, and if you want to include non caucasian males into that demographic, it goes up to about 2/3rds of my component society in my rural area. And nobody is hurting practice wise.

Here's a little tidbit to take to heart. Regardless of one's race, sex, etc, there will always be patients who don't like you. You just can't make everyone happy or have all patients "connect" with you, that's just a fact of life.

If you just provide the best service you can and treat people the way YOU'D want to be treated yourself, the rest will take care of itself regardless of the color of one's skin, the accent that you may have, or the bathroom that you use
Click to expand...
That's your "impossible patient" you're referring to. They give you a hard time especially when selecting what materials to use when doing crowns, or how the opacity is off, or how their dentures never fit properly, or how you're always trying to rip 'em off/waste their precious time, or threatening to sue you, and/or etc.; despite high caliber standard of care you've provided. You're absolutely right. These patients are often denied on the next visit; apparently they're just not worth the time and effort to some dentists I've met. They come in any shape, form, color, and/or etc; regardless of how informed they may be or appear to be. That's just life indeed.👍
 
I tried to resist posting and promoting my own blog here, I really did, but on the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I had a dream" speech, the temptation was overwhelming. It's ok with me; I prefer transparency to the anonymity of avatars. Forgive me though for skating this close to promoting my own work, but if it helps just one person here to work through some challenge, it's worth it...

I've included a link to MLK's speech as well; I promise that if you turn everything else off and focus on every detail, uncut and un-sullied by modern over-hyped media, it will be 17 minutes very well spent indeed.

First, join me in celebrating the brief but remarkable life of Robert Tanner Freeman D.D.S., a beautiful human being who pushed the envelope all the way back in the EIGHTEEN Sixties:

http://rickwilsondmd.typepad.com/rick_wilson_dmds_blog/2013/01/robert-tanner-freeman-dds-the-first-african-american-dentist.html

http://rickwilsondmd.typepad.com/.a/6a01156e42deab970c017c363ba26e970b-pi

A hundred years later, Count Basie personally taught me a thing or three about taking a stand against intolerance:
http://rickwilsondmd.typepad.com/rick_wilson_dmds_blog/2010/10/what-count-basie-taught-me-about-intolerance.html

And here's MLK's influential speech. At minute 12, prodded by his friend Mahalia Jackson, he suddenly decides to leave the script and improvise. Just like one of Basie's jazz musicians--pure improvisation. You can see at minute 12 that he lifts his eyes off the script in front of him and launches into his inspired and inspiring riff.

And those eyes never really return to the written page again. He just connects with the quarter of a million people in front of him, and, indeed, the entire nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smEqnnklfYs

*Let's all make a commitment to push the envelope yet again, in our own time. And don't underestimate your own envelope-pushing capabilities when it comes to standing against intolerance. Drip-drip-drip, and all of a sudden, you have an ocean...
 
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Racism STILL Exists! Just recently, Oprah Winfrey (one of the richest people in the world) was told she couldn't look at a handbag because she couldn't afford it. When I go in certain store, security follows me around as if I'm in there to steal. Sometimes I respond to their actions, but most of the time I keep silent (which I shouldn't).

It doesn't matter where you go, people will show a prejudice towards you based on the color of your skin. Look at any news story thread on any website. Racist comments galore! While the writers of these statements are hidden behind keyboards, the underlying meaning of what they said is still LOUD and clear. Sometimes you have to suck it up and keep moving.

Don't allow one experience to deter you from your goals. You are sure to run into MANY more. Continue to push forward and work where you please.
 
Chika217 said:
Racism STILL Exists! Just recently, Oprah Winfrey (one of the richest people in the world) was told she couldn't look at a handbag because she couldn't afford it. When I go in certain store, security follows me around as if I'm in there to steal. Sometimes I respond to their actions, but most of the time I keep silent (which I shouldn't).

It doesn't matter where you go, people will show a prejudice towards you based on the color of your skin. Look at any news story thread on any website. Racist comments galore! While the writers of these statements are hidden behind keyboards, the underlying meaning of what they said is still LOUD and clear. Sometimes you have to suck it up and keep moving.

Don't allow one experience to deter you from your goals. You are sure to run into MANY more. Continue to push forward and work where you please.
Click to expand...


You do realize that Oprah rescinded her accusations over that incident in Switzerland when the store manager and the employee brought forth what actually happened, don't you?

When the truth came out, Oprah quickly went into "damage control" mode.

Racism seems to be getting worse in many aspects these days, for what I feel is a hyper sensitive culture where the vast majority of people are essentially looking for an excuse rather than having to look within and face up to their own shortcomings, shortcomings that in one form or another we all have, but rarely want to admit that we're not "perfect"

At the end of the day, if you can look back upon it and be happy that YOU did your best to be a good member of society, than frankly who cares what others did. The only person's actions you can control is your own, and you can't change what's happened in the past, but if one continues to obsess about it, they'll very likely miss out on what could of been many amazing opportunities that WILL present themselves in the future
 
DrJeff said:
You do realize that Oprah rescinded her accusations over that incident in Switzerland when the store manager and the employee brought forth what actually happened, don't you?

When the truth came out, Oprah quickly went into "damage control" mode.

Racism seems to be getting worse in many aspects these days, for what I feel is a hyper sensitive culture where the vast majority of people are essentially looking for an excuse rather than having to look within and face up to their own shortcomings, shortcomings that in one form or another we all have, but rarely want to admit that we're not "perfect"

At the end of the day, if you can look back upon it and be happy that YOU did your best to be a good member of society, than frankly who cares what others did. The only person's actions you can control is your own, and you can't change what's happened in the past, but if one continues to obsess about it, they'll very likely miss out on what could of been many amazing opportunities that WILL present themselves in the future
Click to expand...

Are you white? or maybe 1/16th Cherokee 1/4 Irish 1/2 British 3/16th Scottish.

The people who can disregard racism the easiest are usually the people least affected by it.If you're not white I'm not attacking you really, when I was little I used to think we lived in a post racial society too.

Honestly as an Asian female I don't feel the affects of it enough in an academic setting to ever blame racism for my failures but there are other aspects of it that affect me and it gets damn tiring. If I don't say anything people will just assume I'm some quiet, submissive Asian lady and use me as an example of how "The Asians never complain. How come other races always have to say something?" and if I do say something people will just say I'm pulling the "race card" plus I'm Asian, it's not like I get shot down in the streets. At the end of my day, I'm not a quiet submissive anything and I refuse to be used as an example against other minorities so I'll say my piece with necessary.

It's not a hypersensitive culture it's a insensitive culture that's finally getting some sense knocked into it. Yes it's slow progress but when has it not been.

Anyway yes I will chime in that even if America has flaws I would still rather live here than anywhere else. I have yet to find a better place, a lot of other liberal types like to sing praises of Europe but I've heard the racism there is no joke either so I'll just chill here where I know what to expect at least.
 
yggdrasila said:
Are you white? or maybe 1/16th Cherokee 1/4 Irish 1/2 British 3/16th Scottish.

The people who can disregard racism the easiest are usually the people least affected by it.If you're not white I'm not attacking you really, when I was little I used to think we lived in a post racial society too.

Honestly as an Asian female I don't feel the affects of it enough in an academic setting to ever blame racism for my failures but there are other aspects of it that affect me and it gets damn tiring. If I don't say anything people will just assume I'm some quiet, submissive Asian lady and use me as an example of how "The Asians never complain. How come other races always have to say something?" and if I do say something people will just say I'm pulling the "race card" plus I'm Asian, it's not like I get shot down in the streets. At the end of my day, I'm not a quiet submissive anything and I refuse to be used as an example against other minorities so I'll say my piece with necessary.

It's not a hypersensitive culture it's a insensitive culture that's finally getting some sense knocked into it. Yes it's slow progress but when has it not been.

Anyway yes I will chime in that even if America has flaws I would still rather live here than anywhere else. I have yet to find a better place, a lot of other liberal types like to sing praises of Europe but I've heard the racism there is no joke either so I'll just chill here where I know what to expect at least.
Click to expand...

+pity+
 
wtang567 said:
+pity+
Click to expand...

tumblr_mh7ro6egYO1rlklr9o1_500.gif


Thank you for joining me Mr. Krabs. Asian solidarity let's play the instrument of our people in unison
 
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DrJeff said:
You do realize that Oprah rescinded her accusations over that incident in Switzerland when the store manager and the employee brought forth what actually happened, don't you?

When the truth came out, Oprah quickly went into "damage control" mode.
Click to expand...

She did not rescind her accusations.

Below is her statement:

I think that incident in Switzerland was just an incident in Switzerland. I'm really sorry that it got blown up. I purposefully did not mention the name of the store. I'm sorry that I said it was Switzerland.I was just referencing it as an example of being in a place where people don't expect that you would be able to be there.

The lady had preconceived notions based on the color of her skin. I'm done with the discussion. People don't realize that racism still exists until incidents as such happen to them.
 
Full disclosure: I'm a conservative.

I've noticed that most of my conservative friends like to deny, or marginalize, the existence of racism. I'm not sure why they do this - or how exactly it ties into our political POV - but it's definitely there.


Chika217 said:
She did not rescind her accusations.

Below is her statement:

I think that incident in Switzerland was just an incident in Switzerland. I'm really sorry that it got blown up. I purposefully did not mention the name of the store. I'm sorry that I said it was Switzerland.I was just referencing it as an example of being in a place where people don't expect that you would be able to be there.

The lady had preconceived notions based on the color of her skin. I'm done with the discussion. People don't realize that racism still exists until incidents as such happen to them.
Click to expand...
 
bsmcga0 said:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/19...90164_1_britton-johnsen-n-word-makhtar-ndiaye
Click to expand...


ngl that sucks for that guy, but what is this supposed to prove lol one guy's career might be disturbed because he was accused of saying a slur. What does he get like a technical foul or something? lol oh no, doesn't seem like his coach is pulling him or anything.

From the article:
Because it appears that's what Ndiaye has done
Click to expand...

okay..

also does this Ndiaye guy have a twitter or a fb? wanna estimate how many people are calling him the n word now? lmao cmon that was weak
 
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