does anyone see a chiropractor?

I have my own reservations on this and I have done a bit of research...feel free to PM me if you want to know what I think.

If your interested in seeing some of the current perceptions about this, here is a thread in the general residency forum that gets quite heated every now and then....feel free to contribute there.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=55271

Chiropractic is placebo effect and nothing more.

Of course people feel better after going to the chiro, they ALSO feel better after getting a good massage

devildoc2 said:

Chiropractic is placebo effect and nothing more.

Of course people feel better after going to the chiro, they ALSO feel better after getting a good massage

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Really? Where did you read that from? Could you please post the acticle?

I know a lot of physicians will refer patients to chiropractors for neck/spine problems.

phillyfornia said:

a lot of my friends see chiros for various sports injuries and think that chiros are very effective. i've always heard/learned that chiros were mostly quacks that didn't really do a lot. my necks been hurting recently however and i've been thinking about checking one out. just wondering if anyone here frequents a chiropractor and how it has worked out.

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It's true we have quacks that usually are the ones that capture the spotlight. Just don't believe everything you hear, find out for yourself, and make your own decisions. I am a chiropractor and yes, I frequent one on a regular basis. You should give chiropractic a try. Why not ask one of your friends if you can tag along to one of their appointments? This way you can see first hand what to expect. Finding a chiropractor that is neuromuscular skeletal based is a good idea. If they treat sports injuries then they probably are. Don't go to anyone that attempts to blame your condition on "subluxations". These are the quacks!

While it is true that there are bad chiros out there, it is also true that there are bad physicians. I see a chiro regularly for a knee injury from high school. I even call him Dr.
Seeing the chiro has helped me avoid having to have surgery on the knee. My advice is to do some research. While there are no specific specialities in chiro, many focus more on one area or another. For me, I would only see a chiro who gets his/her CME in sports injuries. To classify all chiros as bad or quacks is a hasty generalization and is like saying all physicians are bad just because of the few physicians that are so bad they make the news.

As a physician, I fully intend to utilize alternative therapies depending on my patient's wishes.

I?ve had a back problem for years, and a chiro can make it worse, or they can make it better ? I?ve been to many. Saying that, I do see a chiro when my back goes out. The trick is finding a good chiro. Also, if my back really goes out such that I cannot get to work due to the pain, then I would never see a chiro (that?s when they have made things worse for me) ? I will only see a DO and would suggest the same to you ? but they are hard to find. The problem with chiros, no matter how good they are, is that they perform the same thing no matter what the problem, at least that is my experience with many. So for minor back problems, a good chiro can work wonders, but for more serious problems, only a doctor, and that, a DO, will do!

Please do not flame me and say the MDs are just as good, yes, I know. I?m talking about my experiences. The first time my back went out, I ended up going to three or four MDs, all who said nothing was wrong with me, or simply gave me an anti-inflammatory. I dealt with that pain for 5 years until someone suggest I see a DO, which at the time, I thought was a specialty in the MD line. I was not in his office for 10 minutes ? the experience was like the ?laying on of hands and your healed? ? truly remarkable. When I decided to become a physician, I wanted to do for my patients what that DO has done for me.

In my kaplan class there was a chiropractor going back to med school. I tell you, nothing like free adjustments after sitting down for somewhere between 3 and 8 hours!!
He was the first one i ever let adjust me, and I commented on how he loosened my musckles up before he cracked my neck/back. his comment was "only the quacks dont loosen you up first".
Plus id like to have one of those massage chair thingies they use in their offices. heck yeah.

Talk about chiropractors being quacks all you like, but I had dizziness, ear ringing, and heart skips for over a year, when I finally found someone who could do something about it...he turned out to be a chiropractor. He listened to me and adjusted my neck in less than a minute, and a year's worth of crap was gone like that.

Just like any doctor, find a chiropractor with a good reputation and by all means give him a shot.

Go see a DO, they are real doctors.

I?ve had a back problem for years, and a chiro can make it worse, or they can make it better

At least you recognize the value of chiropractic for the treatment of back pain. How does chiropractic make your problem worse?

I?ve been to many. Saying that, I do see a chiro when my back goes out. The trick is finding a good chiro.

Yes, finding a good one is key. Chiropractic manipulation is an art and it takes time to master. Even some of the best minds in chiropractic can be lousy adjusters.

Also, if my back really goes out such that I cannot get to work due to the pain, then I would never see a chiro (that?s when they have made things worse for me)

Very seldom do we make patients worse. How was your problem made worse?

I will only see a DO and would suggest the same to you ? but they are hard to find. The problem with chiros, no matter how good they are, is that they perform the same thing no matter what the problem, at least that is my experience with many. So for minor back problems, a good chiro can work wonders, but for more serious problems, only a doctor, and that, a DO, will do!

So what is a DO going to do? I mean a "Real doctor" or RD? Wave a magic wand?? Are you talking about getting some pills? Either an MD or DO could do that. I see you only speak of yourself and experiences. With that said, I don't disagree that perhaps you may have come across a few chiropractors that use the same adjustment. Obviously, if that is the case, you hadn't been going "good" ones. Why would someone keep doing the same thing over and over if it's not working? We are well trained in a variety of techniques. Most chiropractors will re-evaluate the situation and change treatment. As far as the "only a doctor" comment, you might want to check your ego at the door. Last I checked my degree said "doctor" on it.

An interesting web site for chiro skeptics

http://www.chirobase.org/

BackTalk said:

I?ve had a back problem for years, and a chiro can make it worse, or they can make it better

At least you recognize the value of chiropractic for the treatment of back pain. How does chiropractic make your problem worse?

Also, if my back really goes out such that I cannot get to work due to the pain, then I would never see a chiro (that?s when they have made things worse for me)

Very seldom do we make patients worse. How was your problem made worse?

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When my back acts up such that pain radiates and tightens the muscles so that normal everyday choirs is difficult and painful, then a good chiro will put me back together in short order.

However, every time I have gone in with the sever conditions, the added agony of intense pain in the L3 and L4 region, I get additional adjustments along with the other stuff ? and the result is excruciating pain such that there were times I could not get off the table and thought about having to have an ambulance called. Now with my new guy, whom I think is wonderful and have recommended him to many, I tried the same problem with him. Explained to him what was new and different, giving the complete symptoms. Same results and I thought I was going to have to call an ambulance.

In general, I?m not sure it is right to twist a persons back who has sciatic pain shooting down their legs - it could be a ruptured disk, or it could be a pinched nerve ? who knows ? but blindly adjusting is not the answer, and that is all I have ever experienced, as well as all the people I know who go to chiros, they too have the same experience.

So I?m not knocking chiros at all ? but in my extensive experience they are not to be used for everything ? especially my neck!

If you want more info on what a DO is and can do, there is plenty of information on SDN and elsewhere that can elaborate far better than I.

I do not and will not argue this, as I?m relating my 25 years of experience with chiros across different states. Take it for what its worth, its just my humble opinion.

As a note of interest: The original DO who fixed me ? well that fix lasted 15 years, and only recently has this really bad condition started to act up again (should I tell you about getting old). Unfortunately DOs are rare around these parts.

Hey Hosebag, here's a good read....

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/osteo.html

BackTalk said:

Hey Hosebag, here's a good read....

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/osteo.html

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Interesting that he left out why Dr. Still looked for a new way of healing people ? he just did not think it was right to open peoples veins to bleed them and / or induce acute vomiting and diarrhea, the MD practice of the day, was the best way to cure people. He also thought it wrong to chemicals (drugs) into a person?s body when you did not know the mechanism of that drug. We all have our baggage!

At least they don't try to treat something that doesn't even exist. Subluxations, give me a freaking break.

http://www.chirobase.org/01General/chirosub.html

Hoser, Dr. Still "maintained that the physician could best promote health by ensuring that the musculoskeletal system was in as perfect alignment as possible and obstructions to blood and lymph flow were minimized or eliminated. He also believed that the structure and function of the body were closely related and that problems in one organ affected other parts of the body".

And you talk about chiropractors being quacks...maybe you should read up on your own profession before you try tearing down others.

Nice case report in the New England Journal of Medicine this week about a vertebral artery dissection after neck manipulation.

BackTalk said:

Hoser, Dr. Still "maintained that the physician could best promote health by ensuring that the musculoskeletal system was in as perfect alignment as possible and obstructions to blood and lymph flow were minimized or eliminated. He also believed that the structure and function of the body were closely related and that problems in one organ affected other parts of the body".

And you talk about chiropractors being quacks...maybe you should read up on your own profession before you try tearing down others.

Click to expand...

I am in an MD program, but I see a DO family doc because they base most of their treatment on SCIENCE!!! I have friends who are in DO school and they learn to how to be doctors as well as how to crack backs.

johnd said:

Nice case report in the New England Journal of Medicine this week about a vertebral artery dissection after neck manipulation.

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What, are the MD's trying to learn chiropractic in a weekend seminar again?

If you want to get a good adjustment, look in the yellow pages for a DO board certifed in OMM

Good luck finding one. It's great that some DO's still offer manipulative therapy but finding one usually isn't very easy.

but some chiropractic stuff such as around the neck is a lot more violent

Really? Where did you read that? As a chiropractor, my adjustments to the cervical spine are hardly "violent".

and they tend to tell you to come back again to get your business since that's most of what they do

Really? What journal did you read that from? Patients come back to my office because 99% of the time their condition does not go away in one treatment. I'm not a miracle worker. Are you trying to tell me that you can fix a disc bulge, protrusion or herniation in one visit? How about a case involving whiplash? Wow, you osteopaths must be good.

whereas we're taught to do it a little different, call HVLA with a low amplitude or short minute movements

I'm not sure what you are taught but I can tell you the hallmark of chiropractic is HVLA (high velocity low amplitude). Short levels are right. I've always heard osteopaths are more long level low amplitude. More like stretching.

but european DO's and chirpractors do HVHA, with highamplitude which can result in more injury than good.

Really? Where did you read that?

also don't have to have your back cracked, there are some things that are more like a massage that can also fix problems

That is true. You also don't need a pill for every little symptom you present with.

Hosehead, the last time I checked, chiropractors are bestowed the title doctor and are regulated primary health care professionals.

This whole "real doctor" nonsense is neither justified nor warranted. I think DOs have their place in health care as do other specialties, but there is no need to pass judgement on a profession based on your unfounded claims or mere ignorance.

I urge you to educate yourself, and maintain a professional demeanor, as one day (whenever you graudate and pass your boards) you will be responsible for the care of your patients, and you must not allow your current personal bias affect your judgement when referring your patients out for MSK conditions.

It is well known that MDs are conditioned to refer out to PTs or DOs for MSK conditions, but it is also well know that MDs are lacking in MSK education and should really take the initiative to consult with various MSK specialists (including chiropractors) so as to provide their patients with the best possible care.

Please see the article below with references highlighting the inadequate MSK education of MDs:

Musculoskeletal Education: MDs Still Fail the Test
________________________________________
In October 1998, the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery featured a study that confirmed what most doctors of chiropractic have long suspected. The study, which examined the competency levels of nearly 90 recent medical school graduates, revealed that most medical and surgical residents "failed to demonstrate basic competency" in their knowledge of musculoskeletal medicine. The results prompted the authors of the study to conclude that the training provided in musculoskeletal medicine "is inadequate."
Now, more than six years later, a new study, again published in the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, shows that today's medical students and young physicians appear to be just as woeful in their understanding of musculoskeletal medicine as their cohorts were several years ago.
In the new study, 334 medical students, residents and staff physicians, specializing in various fields of medicine, were asked to take a basic cognitive examination consisting of 25 short-answer questions - the same type of test administered in the 1998 study. Each question was worth a maximum of one point, with partial credit given for some questions that required multiple answers. Test scores were then multiplied by a factor of four, for a maximum score of 100. A score of 73.1% was determined to be a passing grade.
While the questions used in the 2005 exam were different from the 1998 test, the results were surprisingly similar. In fact, the average score among medical doctors, students and residents who took the exam in 2005 was 2.7 points lower than those who took the exam in 1998.
Just over half of the staff physicians (52%) scored a passing grade or higher on the 2005 exam. Only 21% of the residents registered a passing grade, and only 5% of the medical students passed the exam (see chart above).
As with the 1998 exam, medical doctors and students with training or experience in orthopedics scored higher on the 2005 exam than subjects who lacked such experience. Among the 124 participants who reported taking a required or elective course in orthopedics, the average score was 69%. Among the 210 participants who had not taken an orthopedics course, the average score was 50%. Similarly, the 155 participants who stated they were comfortable with their ability to perform a musculoskeletal examination attained an average score of 66%. Subjects who felt uncomfortable in performing a musculoskeletal exam achieved an average score of just 49%.

In the original Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery article seven years ago, the authors stated that "all students must be instructed in musculoskeletal medicine," and that medical schools needed to revise their educational standards, either by adding more contact hours in specified training, or by providing additional training in musculoskeletal medicine during one's residency.
Those recommendations appear to have fallen on deaf ears, as the same sentiments continue to be echoed in the new study. As the authors note in their conclusion:
"This study strongly suggests that there is a lack of basic musculoskeletal education in medical school and during nonorthopaedic residency training. Improvements in education in musculoskeletal medicine should be pursued in all medical schools and residency training programs."
Given that musculoskeletal complaints are one of the leading reasons people seek the services of a doctor for care, one wonders why the medical profession is apparently unconcerned when it comes to educating the doctors of the future on the finer points of musculoskeletal medicine. Perhaps the moral to this story is one you already know: Patients would be best served by receiving care from a health care provider with more musculoskeletal training - a doctor of chiropractic.


References
1. Freedman KB, Bernstein J. The adequacy of medical school education in musculoskeletal medicine. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery October 1998;80(10):1421-1427.

2. Matzkin E, Smith EL, Freccero D, Richardson AB. Adequacy of education in musculoskeletal medicine. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery February 2005;87(2):310-314.

!dr_nick! said:

I know a lot of physicians will refer patients to chiropractors for neck/spine problems.

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The AMA and allopathic medicine have a long history of battling the chiropractor industry and until 1983, labeled chiropractic "an unscientific cult". (According to Wikipedia), to whom it was actually considered professionally unethical to refer patients. There was an enormous amount of inter-industry litigation on this issue before the boycott was lifted. As such, it's pretty likely a lot of doctors harbor lingering issues with chiropractors. Plus there are no shortage of physicians who deal with backs. So I doubt a large percentage of physicians make referrals as you describe, but am sure some do.

When I was a junior in undergrad a car t-boned me on my bicycle! (owch) . . .anyway I went to an ER (where they said I'd be back to normal the next day . .. the next day I couldn't walk cause my left gastrox was crushed and I had symptoms of post concussive disorder and stabbing pain in my neck and back, lol) then I went to an orthopod about my leg who made sure it wasn't broken and gave me crutches . . . the lawyer I hired reffered me to a friend of his who was an MD who ran an office with a DO and they offered chiropractic adjustments along with other rehabilitative services. Anyways, it helped so much and they were really cool about answering my questions and dealing with my reservations etc. Sometimes alternative therapies can really deal with stuff that western medicine struggles with . . . such as back pain.

Reviving a thread that died a good death long ago.

Very nice.

The thread maybe dead but chiropractic lives on...

BackTalk said:

The thread maybe dead but chiropractic lives on...

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Yep, there is a sucker born every minute!



- H

yep, I hurt my shoulder boxing, 2 surgeries and 2 years of rehab did nothing for me, but since visiting a chiropractor 5 years ago I can work out without pain

I used to think chiropractic stuff wouldn't help and was skeptical about it. Then I became a little more open minded about it and tought it would help some forms of pain, but I would probably never go to one. Now I have been having a neck problem, and decided to go see a chiropractor after my back doctor told me that there was nothing much he could do. It wasn't a bad enough case for surgery (or it would't really be sensible to do surgery on the problem yet), and that if it kept bothering me that I would get an epidural. I didn't like the idea of getting an epidural in my neck just yet. So I went to the chiropractor. After 2 visits it has actually helped some. The pain in my neck has decreased and the numbness and tingling sensations in my shoulder are not as intense.

Hey guys,

Funny to see this is even a debate anymore. I am a professional dancer who is now a post-bacc applying to med school in the spring. Using a chiropractor, masseuse and/or accupuncturist is the common method for treating minor aches/pulls/etc in my old field. By paying even casual attention to sports, it is obvious that professional athletes also value the work that these professionals do since they are all staples of any professional teams staff.

A good chiropractor understands how the body moves and how it is being limited in that movement. I don't think that it is a stretch to suggest that when we are able to move easily, have good posture, etc...other things work better within our whole system because there is less stress on the joints and less energy being used by perpetually tense muscles. We evolved to move and do a great deal of physical work daily, but we no longer do that with any frequency. I believe chiropractors and the like are part of our modern societies compensation system for this (along with trips to the gym, and/or karate classes, and/or dance classes, etc).

Setting bones, performing organ transplants, prescribing the right meds are all great and wonderful things that medical doctors can do. But, there are other people who bring other things to the table. Some chiropractors are terrible and some good. The same is true of doctors. Your patients are going to be using these practicioners whether you like it or not, so I think it is important to learn what they do before you just dismiss it out of hand.

Lshapley said:

Hey guys,

Funny to see this is even a debate anymore. I am a professional dancer who is now a post-bacc applying to med school in the spring. Using a chiropractor, masseuse and/or accupuncturist is the common method for treating minor aches/pulls/etc in my old field. By paying even casual attention to sports, it is obvious that professional athletes also value the work that these professionals do since they are all staples of any professional teams staff.

Click to expand...

It is actually not funny. As a professional dancer, you had access to chiropractors who were professional and acting as an alternative form of a physical therapist. In this capacity, they may well be effective (although there is little good evidence either way). The problem is that chiropractic's creator, DD Palmer, envisioned chiropractic as a much more "all emcompassing" health system, believing that all alterations in health began in the spine and nervous system and could be controlled or cured by chiropractic. There are still chiropractors in practice who believe this. Those without the built in income from professional athletes and entertainers often extend their practices into health management of more medical diseases. This can (and in my experience does) have disasterous results. Just this evening I admitted a patient to the intensive care unit who is profoundly septic. She had complained of some back pain this a.m. and saw her chiropractor who, according to the patient, adjusted her and told her "everything will be fine, just come by each morning for the next few days and get adjusted". EMS was called when the patient was found by her family cold and "shaky" on the floor of her bedroom. She had called her family to arrange a ride to the chiropractor's office in the morning. She will be lucky to live until then. This process was severe and most certainly had been ongoing for days. She reported a "bad cough" and dysuria for about one week. The chiropractor not only missed the diagnosis but imparted a false and dangerous sense that the condition was "under control" to the patient. It wasn't.

This is hardly the first case like this I've seen. Our nurses frequently ask why chiropractic is still legal given the devastation we see.

Lshapley said:

A good chiropractor understands how the body moves and how it is being limited in that movement. I don't think that it is a stretch to suggest that when we are able to move easily, have good posture, etc...other things work better within our whole system because there is less stress on the joints and less energy being used by perpetually tense muscles. We evolved to move and do a great deal of physical work daily, but we no longer do that with any frequency. I believe chiropractors and the like are part of our modern societies compensation system for this (along with trips to the gym, and/or karate classes, and/or dance classes, etc).

Click to expand...

But are they better at these things than a physical therapist working with physician oversight?

Lshapley said:

Setting bones, performing organ transplants, prescribing the right meds are all great and wonderful things that medical doctors can do. But, there are other people who bring other things to the table. Some chiropractors are terrible and some good. The same is true of doctors. Your patients are going to be using these practicioners whether you like it or not, so I think it is important to learn what they do before you just dismiss it out of hand.

Click to expand...

Most physicians do not dismiss it out of hand. We dismiss it because there is no good evidence that it works and many of us have personally seen disasters resulting from chiropractic "care". If there were a scientifically proven benefit then there would be something to measure these risks against. But given the lack of such a benefit, most physicians view chiropractic with great suspicion.

- H

FoughtFyr said:

It is actually not funny. As a professional dancer, you had access to chiropractors who were professional and acting as an alternative form of a physical therapist. In this capacity, they may well be effective (although there is little good evidence either way). The problem is that chiropractic's creator, DD Palmer, envisioned chiropractic as a much more "all emcompassing" health system, believing that all alterations in health began in the spine and nervous system and could be controlled or cured by chiropractic. There are still chiropractors in practice who believe this. Those without the built in income from professional athletes and entertainers often extend their practices into health management of more medical diseases. This can (and in my experience does) have disasterous results. Just this evening I admitted a patient to the intensive care unit who is profoundly septic. She had complained of some back pain this a.m. and saw her chiropractor who, according to the patient, adjusted her and told her "everything will be fine, just come by each morning for the next few days and get adjusted". EMS was called when the patient was found by her family cold and "shaky" on the floor of her bedroom. She had called her family to arrange a ride to the chiropractor's office in the morning. She will be lucky to live until then. This process was severe and most certainly had been ongoing for days. She reported a "bad cough" and dysuria for about one week. The chiropractor not only missed the diagnosis but imparted a false and dangerous sense that the condition was "under control" to the patient. It wasn't.
The same things happen in MD's offices.

This is hardly the first case like this I've seen. Our nurses frequently ask why chiropractic is still legal given the devastation we see.



But are they better at these things than a physical therapist working with physician oversight?



Most physicians do not dismiss it out of hand. We dismiss it because there is no good evidence that it works and many of us have personally seen disasters resulting from chiropractic "care". If there were a scientifically proven benefit then there would be something to measure these risks against. But given the lack of such a benefit, most physicians view chiropractic with great suspicion.

- H

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Have a Happy, Relaxing, Thanksgiving to all.

611 said:

Have a Happy, Relaxing, Thanksgiving to all.

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Back at you! And above all, BE SAFE!

- H

Good points, FoughtFyr. I would definitely agree with you that they underlying basis of chiropractic work sounds a hell of a lot like quackery to me. It is just common sense to know that no one thing is the cure to all of your problems. And I would also wonder why the guy who worked on your patient still has a license to practice.

My question than is, how many chiropractors are quacks and how many are doing good? What patients are the treatments effective for, and which are the treatments a risk? As a doctor, you are only going to see the patients that have complications to the treatment. Are they coming from the same set of chiropractors? Are they 1 out of 100? Out of 1000? Out of 1,000,000? Are there any common factors among these patients?

What do you think? What is your experience? Anyone else?

As I think FoughtFyr and both would agree, athletes and entertainers have access to some of the best people around, through both money and influence. I can vouch for the fact that these practioners will spend an hour or more with their clients/patients. My experience of people to avoid are those that just lie you on a table and crack your neck, taking all of about 3 minutes. There methods (to me) seem like what a ninja does to kill someone.

Athletes certainly heal quicker these days (is it just all of the human growth hormones?) and they are using these methodologies. I have never heard of any pro sports athlete having complications from chiropractic or massage (although examples may exist). If that happened you could guarantee the bad pr would take down the method. Is it that these methods are only good for people who are in the top 10% of the physical conditioning range of the population? Or are the practioners working on them that good? Is someone within the "normal" range more likely to be injured by these manipulative techniques?

Happy turkey day guys!

lee

Lshapley said:

Good points, FoughtFyr. I would definitely agree with you that they underlying basis of chiropractic work sounds a hell of a lot like quackery to me. It is just common sense to know that no one thing is the cure to all of your problems. And I would also wonder why the guy who worked on your patient still has a license to practice.

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He did not violate the standard of practice for chiropractic. He provided the treatment he could and set up follow-up. His failure to realize that he was in over his head does not violate chiropractic standards. Believe it or not, there are die hard "straight" chiropractors who would argue that his plan would have cured the patient in the long run. And common sense isn't common (in life, not just in chiropractic).

Lshapley said:

My question than is, how many chiropractors are quacks and how many are doing good? What patients are the treatments effective for, and which are the treatments a risk? As a doctor, you are only going to see the patients that have complications to the treatment. Are they coming from the same set of chiropractors? Are they 1 out of 100? Out of 1000? Out of 1,000,000? Are there any common factors among these patients?

Click to expand...

Great questions to which there are no real answers. The problem is that there is little quality research on chiropractic. I believe the best source of research analysis on the topic is The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) (website: http://nccam.nih.gov/). On the topic of chiropractic the NCCAM says:

and


More skeptical views can be found here:
http://www.chirobase.com/ and here:
http://chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi

"Pro-chiro" views are related here:
http://www.chiroweb.com/ and here:
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/

Feel free to search around and make up your own mind, but approach the literature cautiously. Very little of it (on either side) is that high quality.

Lshapley said:

What do you think? What is your experience? Anyone else?

As I think FoughtFyr and both would agree, athletes and entertainers have access to some of the best people around, through both money and influence. I can vouch for the fact that these practioners will spend an hour or more with their clients/patients. My experience of people to avoid are those that just lie you on a table and crack your neck, taking all of about 3 minutes. There methods (to me) seem like what a ninja does to kill someone.

Click to expand...

I guess I would question if a high quality athletic trainer or physical therapist would be as effective as these chiropractors?

The other concern is that there are few formal mechanisms for QI/QA within chiropractic. They do not hire other professionals (i.e., nurses) and most work in solo practices (i.e., their work is not "checked" but sub-specialists). There are no prescriptions written (believe it or not, pharmacists are a HUGE patient safety system) and without hospital privledges, there are no M&Ms.

Lshapley said:

Athletes certainly heal quicker these days (is it just all of the human growth hormones?) and they are using these methodologies. I have never heard of any pro sports athlete having complications from chiropractic or massage (although examples may exist). If that happened you could guarantee the bad pr would take down the method. Is it that these methods are only good for people who are in the top 10% of the physical conditioning range of the population? Or are the practioners working on them that good? Is someone within the "normal" range more likely to be injured by these manipulative techniques?

Click to expand...

Again, good questions. And if chiropractic truly is "safe" for those in the top 10% of physical conditioning, is that sufficent reason to allow them to practice, unrestricted on the other 90%?

Happy turkey day to you and yours (and everyone elses') as well.

- H

You too! Have a good holiday and I'll be checking out your links over the break.

Yeah, and I agree about the bias on either side. Just doing a quick websearch yields articles terribly biased on both sides. It is really terrible reading all around.

On a side note about this topic, I have certainly heard skepticism about chiropractors from alternative/preventive practitioners (yoga, massage, etc) arena because their methods are much more invasive (i.e., manipulation of bones and joints) than almost all other alternative/preventive modalities. So, it looks like chiropractors get heat from both ends of the spectrum!

lee

I have a lot of friends who love their chiropractors.