Misdemeanors: Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure

kmnfive · Sep 9, 2004

I know that need to report a misdemeanor whenever I come across Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure; however I'm in a strange situation and was wondering if anyone had some answers....

So here I go, (breathe in)

When was 17, I was arrested for Disorderly Conduct (a Class B misdemeanor), I was drinking on beach with some friends. I was sent to a diversion program and the charges were dismissed. At any rate, when I turned 18, I had the records purged. So when you report this during your Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure, what types of documentation do they require? I?m assuming a report of the incident, but herein lies the predicament, when I applied for American citizenship they required this information?because by law you can say that it never happened but the only people who have access to sealed or purged records is the military or government agencies?and I had to get a copy of the report. Only to find out that when I tried to get a police transcript of my incident, I wasn?t in the system; even in the sealed/purged records system. So I just had to get a letter stating that I have no record whatsoever, sealed, purged or otherwise. I still have a signed and stamped letter from the county judge stating that incident doesn't exist anywhere.

Has anyone been through this process? Could you tell me what they require when you apply for Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure?

I did search and didn't find any information about juvenile incidents

MadameLULU · Sep 9, 2004

kmnfive said:
I know that need to report a misdemeanor whenever I come across Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure; however I'm in a strange situation and was wondering if anyone had some answers....

So here I go, (breathe in)

When was 17, I was arrested for Disorderly Conduct (a Class B misdemeanor), I was drinking on beach with some friends. I was sent to a diversion program and the charges were dismissed. At any rate, when I turned 18, I had the records purged. So when you report this during your Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure, what types of documentation do they require? I?m assuming a report of the incident, but herein lies the predicament, when I applied for American citizenship they required this information?because by law you can say that it never happened but the only people who have access to sealed or purged records is the military or government agencies?and I had to get a copy of the report. Only to find out that when I tried to get a police transcript of my incident, I wasn?t in the system; even in the sealed/purged records system. So I just had to get a letter stating that I have no record whatsoever, sealed, purged or otherwise. I still have a signed and stamped letter from the county judge stating that incident doesn't exist anywhere.

Has anyone been through this process? Could you tell me what they require when you apply for Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure?

I did search and didn't find any information about juvenile incidents

If it was "purged" from your records, don't report it. Its as if it didn't happen, right?

kmnfive · Sep 10, 2004

MadameLULU said:
If it was "purged" from your records, don't report it. Its as if it didn't happen, right?

thats true but it seems like everyone is pointing towards the direction of honesty, which by all means I agree. I'm just wondering if anyone has had any experience with reporting anything like this on their med school app, residency, or liscense application

tom_jones · Sep 10, 2004

kmnfive said:
I know that need to report a misdemeanor whenever I come across Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure; however I'm in a strange situation and was wondering if anyone had some answers....

So here I go, (breathe in)

When was 17, I was arrested for Disorderly Conduct (a Class B misdemeanor), I was drinking on beach with some friends. I was sent to a diversion program and the charges were dismissed. At any rate, when I turned 18, I had the records purged. So when you report this during your Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure, what types of documentation do they require? I?m assuming a report of the incident, but herein lies the predicament, when I applied for American citizenship they required this information?because by law you can say that it never happened but the only people who have access to sealed or purged records is the military or government agencies?and I had to get a copy of the report. Only to find out that when I tried to get a police transcript of my incident, I wasn?t in the system; even in the sealed/purged records system. So I just had to get a letter stating that I have no record whatsoever, sealed, purged or otherwise. I still have a signed and stamped letter from the county judge stating that incident doesn't exist anywhere.

Has anyone been through this process? Could you tell me what they require when you apply for Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure?

I did search and didn't find any information about juvenile incidents

Your juvenile record is sealed when you turn 18. Ressidencies and med schools cannot legally check it. So drink on.

bananaface · Sep 10, 2004

If you read the question on the application, it probably reads "Have you ever been convicted of ...." If that is the case, the only correct answer to this question would be "no". Even though you may have been guilty, when they dismissed the charges, they released you from being held legally accountable for the misdemeanor. That trip to the diversion program was a chance to continue with an untarnished record. Your honesty is certainly admirable. If you wish to disclose the incident, you could do so somewhere in the supplemental application. But, I don't see that you would be obligated to disclose anything about the incident.

Ghost · Sep 10, 2004

i would check with your parole officer. you did serve hard time for this offense, correct? i mean, not only were you drinking underage, but ON THE BEACH!! you must run with a rough crowd, my friend. i don't see how a career criminal such as yourself will ever convince an adcom that you are serious about helping people.

kmnfive · Sep 10, 2004

tom_jones said:
Your juvenile record is sealed when you turn 18. Ressidencies and med schools cannot legally check it. So drink on.

what about when you apply for your medical liscense?

Ghost said:
i would check with your parole officer. you did serve hard time for this offense, correct? i mean, not only were you drinking underage, but ON THE BEACH!! you must run with a rough crowd, my friend. i don't see how a career criminal such as yourself will ever convince an adcom that you are serious about helping people.

i never had a parole officer, i never served time for anything. it was juvenile, i went to a diversion program, thats it, end of story

MadameLULU · Sep 10, 2004

kmnfive said:
what about when you apply for your medical liscense?

i never had a parole officer, i never served time for anything. it was juvenile, i went to a diversion program, thats it, end of story

It isnt legally reportable

kmnfive · Sep 10, 2004

MadameLULU said:
It isnt legally reportable

what do you mean by legally reportable? I'm not sure I understand your statement.

VienneseWaltz · Sep 10, 2004

You seem to be skeptical of the advice here, as well you should be,

so you might want to consult a lawyer if the posts don't satisfy you. Alternatively, you can talk to your pre-med advisor, who might have advised someone else in your situation. Another thing you could do is call a medical school to which you are NOT applying and see if they will give you an answer.

kmnfive · Sep 11, 2004

stoic · Sep 11, 2004

I don't think that medical schools would see it, but the DEA licensing people might. I'd go ahead and mention it. Why? Because its a pretty clear-cut case of stupid decisions as a teenager. Note it, if they ask be honest about it, and forget about it. No one is going to bat an eye about this... unless they find out you hid it from them.

Bottom line, listing his won't hurt you but hiding it potentially could.

S.

kmnfive · Sep 11, 2004

stoic said:
I don't think that medical schools would see it, but the DEA licensing people might. I'd go ahead and mention it. Why? Because its a pretty clear-cut case of stupid decisions as a teenager. Note it, if they ask be honest about it, and forget about it. No one is going to bat an eye about this... unless they find out you hid it from them.

Bottom line, listing his won't hurt you but hiding it potentially could.

S.

yeah i think telling them would be the best way to go.

thanks everyone.

kmnfive · Sep 14, 2004

by the way... whats DEA stand for?

Code Brown · Sep 14, 2004

kmnfive said:
by the way... whats DEA stand for?

Drug Enforcement Agency I think.

nockamura · Sep 14, 2004

tom_jones said:
Your juvenile record is sealed when you turn 18. Ressidencies and med schools cannot legally check it. So drink on.

Errr!!! Wrong! Certain agencies have the right to look at "sealed" juvenile records, among these are Emergency Medical Services so I assume that "someone" will look at juvenile records prior to a medical license. Just report it. I know that several EMT students I certified with had to report their juvenile misdemeanors and were absolutely fine, however, had they lied about their history, their test would have been nullified immediately. My advice: Accurately report it.

RaistlinMajere · Sep 14, 2004

VienneseWaltz said:
You seem to be skeptical of the advice here, as well you should be, so you might want to consult a lawyer if the posts don't satisfy you.

You definitely want to consult a lawyer. It is a complex problem and while we all can provide educated guesses, few--if any--of us are qualified to give you a strong legal opinion.

kmnfive · Sep 14, 2004

Code Brown said:
Drug Enforcement Agency I think.

I know about the law enforcement DEA, i thought it was another DEA that had to do with medicine.

What does the DEA have to do with my situation? I'm confused.

liverotcod · Sep 14, 2004

I have been faced in my secondaries with reporting/not reporting a drunk driving conviction. My answer depends on the exact wording of the question. One version asks, "Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor or felony?" I have to answer that one no, since my conviction was a traffic offense and neither a misdemeanor nor felony.

Another version asks, "Have you ever been convicted of any crime other than a minor traffic violation?" That one, I answer yes. Although the legal meaning of the word "crime" is debatable, I answer that I don't consider drunk driving a "minor" offense.

kmnfive said:
I know about the law enforcement DEA, i thought it was another DEA that had to do with medicine.

What does the DEA have to do with my situation? I'm confused.

The DEA issues licenses to doctors to prescribe controlled substances; their application process includes a background check.

Ghost · Sep 14, 2004

liverotcod said:
I have been faced in my secondaries with reporting/not reporting a drunk driving conviction. My answer depends on the exact wording of the question. One version asks, "Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor or felony?" I have to answer that one no, since my conviction was a traffic offense and neither a misdemeanor nor felony.

Another version asks, "Have you ever been convicted of any crime other than a minor traffic violation?" That one, I answer yes. Although the legal meaning of the word "crime" is debatable, I answer that I don't consider drunk driving a "minor" offense.

The DEA issues licenses to doctors to prescribe controlled substances; their application process includes a background check.

a traffic offense is a misdemeanor.

liverotcod · Sep 14, 2004

Ghost said:
a traffic offense is a misdemeanor.

Nope. Think speeding ticket. It's a civil forfeiture. Now, in some states it may be true that DWI is a misdemeanor.

Ghost · Sep 14, 2004

liverotcod said:
Nope. Think speeding ticket. It's a civil forfeiture. Now, in some states it may be true that DWI is a misdemeanor.

well, i can only tell you what i know, and in texas any traffic violation is a class c misdemeanor. and a dwi is more serious, a class b misdemeanor for the first offense, class a for 2nd, and a 3rd degree felony for third time convictions. i would doubt very much that a dwi is not even considered a misdemeanor in your state. at any rate, you are using semantics as a reason not to report it on your secondaries. i'm not trying to tell you what to do, but you should really think seriously about reporting it. it will be discovered at some point, and when it is, how much weight do you think your semantics defense is going to hold? it's obvious that you are trying to hide it, which will invalidate any claims of ignorance. if you are in school, you'll get kicked out. if it is after school, during licensing, they can revoke your degree. good luck in whatever decision you make.

stoic · Sep 14, 2004

For what it's worth (and that's virtually nothing), in Kansas moving violations are misdemeanors.

Supadupafly · Sep 14, 2004

If it was a only misddemeanor, and you were a minor, you don't need to tell them unless they specifically ask for your minor record (which they shouldn't).

It's being honest. They're asking to make sure you aren't a criminal, not to see if you were a roudy teen. If it was some kind of violent offense or something related to healthcare, it might be a different story, but it also wouldn't be a misdemeanor.

A misdemeanor as a minor will also not generally prevent your liscensure, even if they do know. Unless you committed healthcare fraud, which would.

IF HE ANSWERS THIS POST, HE'S TROLLING. THIS THREAD IS OVER.

liverotcod · Sep 14, 2004

Ghost said:
well, i can only tell you what i know, and in texas any traffic violation is a class c misdemeanor. and a dwi is more serious, a class b misdemeanor for the first offense, class a for 2nd, and a 3rd degree felony for third time convictions. i would doubt very much that a dwi is not even considered a misdemeanor in your state.

In Wisconsin, that isn't the case. So would you report a speeding ticket on this question in your app?

Ghost said:
...at any rate, you are using semantics as a reason not to report it on your secondaries. i'm not trying to tell you what to do, but you should really think seriously about reporting it. it will be discovered at some point, and when it is, how much weight do you think your semantics defense is going to hold? it's obvious that you are trying to hide it, which will invalidate any claims of ignorance. if you are in school, you'll get kicked out. if it is after school, during licensing, they can revoke your degree. good luck in whatever decision you make.

People seem to have strong feelings about drunken driving in particular, for good reason. But, contrary to what you have suggested, I'm definitely *not* using semantics to hide my DWI. On the contrary, I talk about it in my personal statement and in other essays in the secondaries. And when the question is asked differently, I report the conviction. I think it will have little if any negative bearing on my applications. But I do want to answer the question correctly, which is why I have selected the approach I described in my original post.

Ghost · Sep 14, 2004

a minor is below age 18. i wasn't aware he was below 18 when he got his dwi. if that is the case, i agree, don't worry about it.

liverotcod · Sep 14, 2004

Ghost said:
a minor is below age 18. i wasn't aware he was below 18 when he got his dwi. if that is the case, i agree, don't worry about it.

I think Supadupafly was referring to the OP - I was just giving the OP my history as an example of careful reading of the question. I was 22 when I got my DWI, way back in 1989.

Ghost · Sep 14, 2004

liverotcod said:
I think Supadupafly was referring to the OP - I was just giving the OP my history as an example of careful reading of the question. I was 22 when I got my DWI, way back in 1989.

oh, i didn't know that you talked about it in your ps. then, you are not trying to hide anything. sorry for the misinterpetation.

stoic · Sep 14, 2004

Look, report it.

Like I said before, reporting it won't hurt you, but hiding it definately could.

So it's not even really something that needs to be discussed. Just report it.

kmnfive · Sep 15, 2004

thanks stoic, and thank you all for your comments, i appreciate it

davidnt · Sep 15, 2004

Ghost said:
i would check with your parole officer. you did serve hard time for this offense, correct? i mean, not only were you drinking underage, but ON THE BEACH!! you must run with a rough crowd, my friend. i don't see how a career criminal such as yourself will ever convince an adcom that you are serious about helping people.

Juveniles don't have parole officers. They only have probation officers. Most juvenile crimes, especially first offenses, don't recieve "hard time." A "career criminal" is someone who commits crimes throughout their lifetime not only as a juvenile. What "rough crowd" are you talking about? What does making a mistake have anything to do with helping people?

I'm surprised that you're even applying to medical school. You appear to be very sheltered and unable to relate to people different than you. It would be unfortunate for someone, judgemental as you, to become a physician. You will be working with patients from "all walks of life," from the poor to rich and from the law abiding citizens to criminals.

The reason why I'm writing you is that your statement is an eye itch. I was a juvenile delinquent and I "[ran] with a rough crowd." Not all of us grew up in a constructive and nurturing environment. It sounds like you may have had that great environment. I probably have a worse juvenile criminal record than almost every applicant but I'm still applying to medical school. I already got an interview to a top 15 medical school for their MD only program and an interview for a MSTP program with one of the top engineering PhD programs in the country. I think the "adcoms" won't be as closed minded as you are.

If you do make it to medical school, I do hope that you choose to broaden your horizons for the benefit of your patients and the community.

Ghost · Sep 15, 2004

davidnt said:
Juveniles don't have parole officers. They only have probation officers. Most juvenile crimes, especially first offenses, don't recieve "hard time." A "career criminal" is someone who commits crimes throughout their lifetime not only as a juvenile. What "rough crowd" are you talking about? What does making a mistake have anything to do with helping people?

I'm surprised that you're even applying to medical school. You appear to be very sheltered and unable to relate to people different than you. It would be unfortunate for someone, judgemental as you, to become a physician. You will be working with patients from "all walks of life," from the poor to rich and from the law abiding citizens to criminals.

The reason why I'm writing you is that your statement is an eye itch. I was a juvenile delinquent and I "[ran] with a rough crowd." Not all of us grew up in a constructive and nurturing environment. It sounds like you may have had that great environment. I probably have a worse juvenile criminal record than almost every applicant but I'm still applying to medical school. I already got an interview to a top 15 medical school for their MD only program and an interview for a MSTP program with one of the top engineering PhD programs in the country. I think the "adcoms" won't be as closed minded as you are.

If you do make it to medical school, I do hope that you choose to broaden your horizons for the benefit of your patients and the community.

wow. let me say that again, wow. davidnt, meet sarcasm. sarcasm, meet davidnt. nice novel though. i especially liked the part about broadening my horizons. lol. it's kind of sad that you took my post seriously.

kstone13 · Sep 15, 2004

clearly daviddt, your post had horrible intentions and you should realize that anybody with a criminal past should be categorically rejected from all future occupations, especially medicine. In fact I suggest that anybody with a questionable past should be relegated to moving boulders from one end of the field and back again.

yea, i have to agree with you there ghost, the sarcasm was laid on pretty thick, perhaps even thicker than molasses.

45408 · Sep 15, 2004

Ghost said:
a traffic offense is a misdemeanor.

um, maybe if you were doing 150mph in traffic, but typically a traffic offense IS NOT A MISDEMEANOR everywhere in the US.....

neurodoc · Sep 15, 2004

Ghost said:
a traffic offense is a misdemeanor.

A "traffic violation" is an "infraction," which is a lesser offense than a misdemeanor.

kmnfive · Sep 16, 2004

i thought ghost was being serious but thats just me, i guess i just missed out on the sarcasm.

Ghost · Sep 16, 2004

TheProwler said:
um, maybe if you were doing 150mph in traffic, but typically a traffic offense IS NOT A MISDEMEANOR everywhere in the US.....

neurodoc said:
A "traffic violation" is an "infraction," which is a lesser offense than a misdemeanor.

like i said, i can only speak for what i know, and that is Texas. believe me, i have had enough speeding tickets to know for sure that a traffic violation is a class c misdemeanor in Texas. but you are obviously not going to take my word for it, so this is from a municipal courthouse:

Jurisdiction

The Municipal Court is the judicial branch of the city of Deer Park and handles all Class C misdemeanors, which include traffic and parking violations, assault, theft under $50, public intoxication, and violations of city ordinances. The court also handles all Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission ( TABC ) Class C violations.
The Municipal Court follows the procedures provided by the statute to afford all court participants the rights guaranteed them under the Constitutions of the United States and the State of Texas.

here's the link:

http://www.ci.deer-park.tx.us/city_government/Finance/muncipal_court.htm

so, i'm sorry you wasted all those capitol letters and quotation marks.

mwhou · Sep 16, 2004

kmnfive said:
I know that need to report a misdemeanor whenever I come across Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure; however I'm in a strange situation and was wondering if anyone had some answers....

I wouldn't recc. contacting an attorney, the effort involved in finding one that has some experience with this would be substantial.

If you want an authoritative answer, contact your states (or state applying to) medical licensing board. This is where licensing decisions are finally made, and these are the people that issue disciplinary responses to things such as withholding of information. They will answer your question, and can likely give you clear rules you can use to explain / justify your action if anyone asks later.

Good luck.

kmnfive · Sep 16, 2004

mwhou said:
I wouldn't recc. contacting an attorney, the effort involved in finding one that has some experience with this would be substantial.

If you want an authoritative answer, contact your states (or state applying to) medical licensing board. This is where licensing decisions are finally made, and these are the people that issue disciplinary responses to things such as withholding of information. They will answer your question, and can likely give you clear rules you can use to explain / justify your action if anyone asks later.

Good luck.

Thanks Mwhou

kmnfive · Sep 16, 2004

Ghost said:
like i said, i can only speak for what i know, and that is Texas. believe me, i have had enough speeding tickets to know for sure that a traffic violation is a class c misdemeanor in Texas. but you are obviously not going to take my word for it, so this is from a municipal courthouse:

Jurisdiction

The Municipal Court is the judicial branch of the city of Deer Park and handles all Class C misdemeanors, which include traffic and parking violations, assault, theft under $50, public intoxication, and violations of city ordinances. The court also handles all Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission ( TABC ) Class C violations.
The Municipal Court follows the procedures provided by the statute to afford all court participants the rights guaranteed them under the Constitutions of the United States and the State of Texas.

here's the link:

http://www.ci.deer-park.tx.us/city_government/Finance/muncipal_court.htm

so, i'm sorry you wasted all those capitol letters and quotation marks.

anyone from texas that can verify this?

liverotcod · Sep 16, 2004

kmnfive said:
anyone from texas that can verify this?

I looked up the Texas code the other day when Ghost made this claim, and he's right. Crazy Texans! I wonder what they do to jaywalkers, lethal injection?

kmnfive · Sep 16, 2004

liverotcod said:
I looked up the Texas code the other day when Ghost made this claim, and he's right. Crazy Texans! I wonder what they do to jaywalkers, lethal injection?

jesus, thats horrible. and i thought we had problems in CA

kmnfive · Sep 21, 2004

nudge

phleebie · Sep 21, 2004

Misdemeanors: Medical School Admissions, Residency Placement, and Medical Licensure

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