The completely unscientific Step 1 Score poll

Skip Intro · Sep 11, 2004

I'm just curious.

Don't lie. Don't post your score here. Just click on one of the buttons. Only post if you passed.

I tried to make the ranges make the most sense, and are narrower around the reported means. As well, I've tried to have each range start at the reported "significant" numbers I've often heard discussed. Hopefully we'll see a nice bell curve... but...

Just wondering if there's any "score inflation" going on around here and/or if only the people who did extremely well post their scores. I recognize that this is an extremely unscientific poll.

Reserve your comments as well, please. I don't care to hear any barbs or jabs aimed towards me about starting this thread.

And, I'll come back and enter my score range after a few numbers are in the database.

-Skip

Yogi Bear · Sep 11, 2004

Skip Intro said:
I'm just curious.

Don't lie. Don't post your score here. Just click on one of the buttons. Only post if you passed.

I tried to make the ranges make the most sense, and are narrower around the reported means. As well, I've tried to have each range start at the reported "significant" numbers I've often heard discussed. Hopefully we'll see a nice bell curve... but...

Just wondering if there's any "score inflation" going on around here and/or if only the people who did extremely well post their scores. I recognize that this is an extremely unscientific poll.

Reserve your comments as well, please. I don't care to hear any barbs or jabs aimed towards me about starting this thread.

And, I'll come back and enter my score range after a few numbers are in the database.

-Skip

cool idea...but u should delete this poll and create a new one...adding the options for 1) haven't taken it yet 2) <180

Skip Intro · Sep 11, 2004

Yogi Bear said:
cool idea...but u should delete this poll and create a new one...adding the options for 1) haven't taken it yet 2) <180

Well, not a bad idea. But, for right now, I'm interest mainly in people who've already taken it and passed it. Passing score is set at 182.

Thanks for your comments, though. Maybe a similar poll can be started next year after the Step 1 cycle is completed in the late summer/early fall incorporating your ideas.

-Skip

InductionAgent · Sep 12, 2004

Skip Intro said:
Well, not a bad idea. But, for right now, I'm interest mainly in people who've already taken it and passed it.

-Skip

It's called selection bias. So for right now, you're inherently going to get some score inflation from a poll in which people can't report low scores.

Yogi Bear · Sep 12, 2004

Skip Intro said:
Well, not a bad idea. But, for right now, I'm interest mainly in people who've already taken it and passed it. Passing score is set at 182.

Thanks for your comments, though. Maybe a similar poll can be started next year after the Step 1 cycle is completed in the late summer/early fall incorporating your ideas.

-Skip

basically, if u haven't taken it, u can't see results until u click "view results'...that's the annoying part of the poll.

Skip Intro · Sep 12, 2004

Yogi Bear said:
basically, if u haven't taken it, u can't see results until u click "view results'...that's the annoying part of the poll.

There is a "view results" button below the poll questions. If you click this, you can see the results without having to enter a score.

I must say, I think my hypothesis is already proving to be true... but it's early still.

Thanks for posting.

-Skip

Skip Intro · Sep 12, 2004

InductionAgent said:
It's called selection bias. So for right now, you're inherently going to get some score inflation from a poll in which people can't report low scores.

Well, this is partly true, I agree. I'm not looking for an overall average, though. I'm looking for a "distribution of passing scores" to corroborate with what the NBME reports.

I suspect one of three things occurs on this forum:

(1) Only those with very high scores come here to talk about them;

(2) People artificially inflate their scores;

(3) Low scorers (passers, whether on the first attempt or otherwise) don't discuss their scores out of perceived embarrassment.

Now, this is not saying that people who report 250+ didn't actually score a 250+. But, if an inordinantly high number of people report 250+ here, the graph will look more like a staircase instead of a bell-shape. And, that points to one of my three explanations above.

Either that, or the NBME is lying.

-Skip

Yogi Bear · Sep 12, 2004

Skip Intro said:
There is a "view results" button below the poll questions. If you click this, you can see the results without having to enter a score.

I must say, I think my hypothesis is already proving to be true... but it's early still.

Thanks for posting.

-Skip

lol...yes, i know there's a 'view results' button and i mentioned it in my original post. although u can click on it to view the results, u don't automatically see it when u initially open up the thread (unlike those who've voted..and get to automatically see the results).

carrigallen · Sep 12, 2004

I agree with Yogi Bear. I think the survey should be re-done. Ask a moderator to close this one.

1. Make a "270+" category. (the USMLE does not really go past 270). This would help filter out a lot of the junk you are getting, from random people putting in the highest score they see. It would also allow you to assess the "dishonesty" factor more easily.

2. Make a "less than 120" category. This would also help filter out the random people who are putting the lowest score they see.

3. Include an option for "Haven't taken the test yet"

4. Include another "nonsense" option - for the people from the lounge who just like to click on surveys.

AlexRusso · Sep 12, 2004

I actually kept track of all the scores posted in that big thread b/c I wanted to see the correlation between Qbank, NBME practice questions, MCAT and the USMLE1. I put all the scores into an excell file and graphed them out and made histograms and such.

By the end I had 72 scores. You're right the distribution is very skewed to the right. The mean came out to be 241.

I would post the file here but I don't know how. PM me if you want and I'll email it to you.

Idiopathic · Sep 12, 2004

Much ado about nothing, I think. There definitely is a reporting bias here, as people are more likely to not only post a high score, but, to even take interest in looking at a website where you discuss USMLE scores. Also, the people on SDN seem to be a group that is, for the most part, concerned about getting a high score, dedicated to doing so, and interested in hearing about how to do so. I would wager that 30-40% of test takers "just want to pass", and that group does not come to SDN trying to break 250, or whatnot. Just my thoughts about why asembling the 'SDN USMLE poll' isnt really representative.

Also, the only score I know for sure is my own, so that does cloud things a little, what with anonymity on the web and all.

Skip Intro · Sep 12, 2004

carrigallen said:
I agree with Yogi Bear. I think the survey should be re-done. Ask a moderator to close this one.

1. Make a "270+" category. (the USMLE does not really go past 270). This would help filter out a lot of the junk you are getting, from random people putting in the highest score they see. It would also allow you to assess the "dishonesty" factor more easily.

2. Make a "less than 120" category. This would also help filter out the random people who are putting the lowest score they see.

Well, the actual USMLE report that comes with your score on it says that most test takers end-up "with scores falling between 152 and 278." But, I get your drift. If you put say "300+" for instance, the jokers who click the highest score they see and have no idea what a high score is will be revealed.

carrigallen said:
3. Include an option for "Haven't taken the test yet"

Well, as I said before, I'm not really interested in those who haven't taken the test yet...

carrigallen said:
4. Include another "nonsense" option - for the people from the lounge who just like to click on surveys.

... but I see your bigger point about people who just can't resist the urge to click the little button.

idiopathic said:
Much ado about nothing, I think. There definitely is a reporting bias here, as people are more likely to not only post a high score, but, to even take interest in looking at a website where you discuss USMLE scores. Also, the people on SDN seem to be a group that is, for the most part, concerned about getting a high score, dedicated to doing so, and interested in hearing about how to do so. I would wager that 30-40% of test takers "just want to pass", and that group does not come to SDN trying to break 250, or whatnot. Just my thoughts about why asembling the 'SDN USMLE poll' isnt really representative.

Also, the only score I know for sure is my own, so that does cloud things a little, what with anonymity on the web and all.

I hear you, idio. And, generally we agree. I clearly came into this recognizing it was unscientific, but if you have a hypothesis you need to test hypothesis, even if the test has well-known diagnostic limitations. The one thing this poll feature does have going for it is that registered users are the only ones who can vote, and they can only vote once. So, that prevents the "click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click" on one score category that could otherwise occur.

I'm just interested to see what turns up. So far, I'm not surprised. I believe there are some honest answers in there (mine included), but as you say the only sure thing I know is that my recorded score range is genuine.

-Skip

JattMed · Sep 12, 2004

What are you exactly trying to do? Gauge where you fit in regarding USMLE Step 1 scores with fellow SDNers? Why?
Why not just look at the official USMLE score distribution for all test takers?
As many have pointed out-you wont get a 'proper/honest' score reporting here.
Good luck.

Skip Intro · Sep 12, 2004

JattMed said:
What are you exactly trying to do? Gauge where you fit in regarding USMLE Step 1 scores with fellow SDNers? Why?
Why not just look at the official USMLE score distribution for all test takers?
As many have pointed out-you wont get a 'proper/honest' score reporting here.
Good luck.

I'm trying to prove a point.

A lot of people come into this forum and post scores. Many (not all) of these scores are completely bogus.

This creates a lot of unnecessary angst among students who scored "average" on the test - which is most people.

The points made thus far are well made, but I happened to read a post the other day by a poster on this forum - who I happen to really like and respect - who failed the test the first time he took it. It got me thinking about a particularly stupid thread that I read (and shamefully admit that I participated in) posted in this forum.

People falsely believe that your Step 1 score is critical to your securing a successful residency. I excerpt the following from "First Aid for the Match" on page 122 concerning what PD's find important in evaluating a candidate...

(1) Grades in specialty clerkship
(2) Grades in specialty elective
(3) Other clerkship grades
(4) Class rank
(5) USMLE Step 2 score
(6) AOA Membership
(7) Elective grades
(8) USMLE Step 1 score
(9) Preclinical grades
(10) Research activities

You'd think, coming to this forum, that most people score at least a 230 on Step 1. While that may be true on this forum (but I doubt it), it certainly is not reflective of what happens in the real world. And, that - along with a lot of misinformation that accompanies the subsequent "score discussions" - leaves the impression in many people's minds that if you don't get at least a 230, you're going to be doomed to a FP residency in rural Idaho.

This forum has a "whip it out and measure" mentality when it comes to score reporting. It serves no purpose. And, it just is not relevant on the scale of important things. Whatever the intent people have of posting scores here - be they real or artificial - it does more harm than good.

I'm trying to prove that the score reporting is artificially inflated here, not reflected of what the USMLE and NBME reports, and generally irrelevant.

Is that going to stop anyone from posting their scores here? I'm not that na?ve. But, hopefully it will give others some much needed perspective.

-Skip

P.S. Of course, I could tell you all that I scored 240+ on the test, so none of this applies to me... (see what I mean? 🙄 )

DrDre' · Sep 12, 2004

Also remember some people would find a residency in rural Idaho as a wonderful place to match- I would!

Skip Intro · Sep 12, 2004

DrDre' said:
Also remember some people would find a residency in rural Idaho as a wonderful place to match- I would!

Point taken. 🙂

-Skip

JattMed · Sep 12, 2004

You can pursue this all you want, I am not saying otherwise.
However it is a moot point since we all know people inflate anything based on self reporting.
As far as residency is concerned-Step 1 plays a significant role albeit not the only determinant of placement.
Furthermore there is a push to have Step 2 play a more significant role in residency placement/attainment.
This is all in addition to other things such as Clerkship grades and the like.

The whole USMLE thing is so similar to the MCAT scare of premed.
Some schools rank MCAT highly others dont, and I am certain that is the same for residency regarding USMLE scores.

Whatever people make of the MCAT or USMLE Step 1 be it fear mongering and stress inducing 'advice' saying that they are the end-all and be-all or diminishing what the assessments are set out to do in order to alleviate such fears, either way these tests will continue.
Furthermore these tests will continue to create anxiety no matter what. Remember you are dealing with obsessive compulsive people as compared to the general population-no matter what you 'advise' them on they will find an 'issue' of concern.
So really there is no possibility of 'helping' people on their anxiety of USMLE Step 1, there are too many possibilities in how it is utilized from institution to institution.
I do understand you are trying to help..........so once again.........good luck

watchdog069 · Sep 13, 2004

there is word out on the grape vine that jalby has a 270 not a 259.

carrigallen · Sep 13, 2004

watchdog069 said:
there is word out on the grape vine that jalby has a 270 not a 259.

I think Jalbrecht made himself a new account... :chuckle:

Skip Intro · Sep 13, 2004

Oh brother, people. As of right now, 9:10 PM on Monday night, September 13th, 79.46% of people responding say they scored higher than 220 with 63.02% saying they scored about 230, and 28.38% saying they scored above 250!!!

🙄

Kinda proving the point here, folks. Anyone reading this who feels bad about their score should not believe the hype.

-Skip

Jalby · Sep 13, 2004

carrigallen said:
I think Jalbrecht made himself a new account... :chuckle:

Nope. Don't have the time or energy one way or another.

bigfrank · Sep 14, 2004

Skip Intro said:
Oh brother, people. As of right now, 9:10 PM on Monday night, September 13th, 79.46% of people responding say they scored higher than 220 with 63.02% saying they scored about 230, and 28.38% saying they scored above 250!!!

🙄

Kinda proving the point here, folks. Anyone reading this who feels bad about their score should not believe the hype.

-Skip

1. Skip posts 'unscientific poll' to better characterize his view of human nature.
2. Skip draws sweeping and bold generalizations from his said 'unscientific poll.'
3. Skip feels better.
4. Skip impresses us all. :laugh:

Mongo · Sep 15, 2004

bigfrank said:
1. Skip posts 'unscientific poll' to better characterize his view of human nature.
2. Skip draws sweeping and bold generalizations from his said 'unscientific poll.'
3. Skip feels better.
4. Skip impresses us all.

Grow up and let it die. Either that or just challenge Skip to a dual and get it over with. Nobody (as I speak for everybody) cares about your hissy fit anymore.

bigfrank · Sep 15, 2004

You speak for everybody? Thanks, I'll take your word for that. 😉

sherpagyrl · Sep 15, 2004

bigfrank said:
1. Skip posts 'unscientific poll' to better characterize his view of human nature.
2. Skip draws sweeping and bold generalizations from his said 'unscientific poll.'
3. Skip feels better.
4. Skip impresses us all.

Yet another malignant thread has begun!

Yogi Bear · Sep 15, 2004

btw, i don't think polls are entirely private....the mods may be able to see who voted what...

DrMom · Sep 15, 2004

Actually, with the current settings I think only the Admins can...and only if they go looking for that info.

superdood · Sep 20, 2004

nsh_00 said:
In my opinion, a person would not inflate their score on an Anonymous Forum to feel better about themselves. Why, because its Anonymous.

The high scores are from people who are proud of their accomplishments and would like to get a well deserved pat on the back. Is it not almost instinct to get a 250+ and want to announce it to the world?

your post is about two months too late

nsh_00 · Sep 21, 2004

superdood said:
your post is about two months too late

🙂

Marusya · Oct 6, 2004

182 - minimum.
"If minimum hadn't been enough, it wouldn't have been a minimum." 🙂

The completely unscientific Step 1 Score poll

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