Better chance of derm after IM rather than direct?

Doing derm after IM is what unmatched applicants do. It's a terrible idea, since you'll be wasting 2 years of your life in IM.

You'll also use up GME funding and have to assume the derm program will be willing and able to fund you for 3 years.

That's assuming you'll eventually get a spot in derm, which is questionable for even the best applicants. And you'll be stuck doing IM if it doesn't work out.

I agree that doing an IM residency does not improve your chances of getting into derm.There is no shortage of individuals who have completed IM at strong programs who would be happy to switch into derm if it was at all possible.There are of course some from peds,Psych,IM who get into derm. if they have connections or some other compelling thing going for them.If you really want derm then do whats necessary to apply for it now.If you do IM you will likely end up in it.

If you are interested in both Internal Medicine (IM) and Dermatology, you may want to consider the combined IM and Dermatology residency programs. The combined programs are 5 years total. There are currently 3 programs:
1) University of Pennsylvania
2) SUNY at Stony Brook
3) University of Wisconsin

LSU-New Orleans used to be on the combined program list, but I do not see them on FREIDA anymore.

Another option is to do a Dermatology residency first and then an IM residency. It's much easier to go from Derm --> IM than IM --> Derm. Just remember to do a preliminary IM internship before starting Derm residency. If you choose this route, it will take 6 years to complete.

However, from the sound of your e-mail, it sounds like Derm is your "back-up". Derm should NEVER be your "back-up". Derm is one of the most competitive residencies and programs think it is an honor to be accepted into the brotherhood and sisterhood of Dermatology. Therefore, they will be insulted if an applicant considers dermatology a "back up" specialty. Besides, wouldn't you rather pick an applicant who is 110% motivated to choose your specialty vs. an applicant who gives less because he applied to the specialty as a "back up".

NIQ said:

Wondering if derm is like other subspecialities where I would have a better chance getting in after doing IM in a very good spot (versus applying for direct programs out of school)? Right now I'm in the top 5% of my class and aiming for 95+ on step1 which I'm going to write in August.

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By the way, derm's not a "sub"-specialty... but the above advice is good stuff - you will be LESS competitive if you do IM first to almost all derm programs.

scholes said:

FYI, the match rate for derm is not that much better than the match rate for cardiology. Last year it was 47% for derm and 52% for Cardiology. However, if you look at the US Grad match rate, it was 55% for derm and 75% for cards. A bit better, but discouraging nonetheless.

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This doesn't say anything because the only people who apply to derm are people with amazing numbers. So when only 47% of rock stars are matching, you know the field is pretty darn competitive. A lot of cardiology applicants are average or unqualified that just apply to see if they can get lucky and match somewhere. 75% acceptance rate for a U.S. graduate is pretty darn good. Derm is a residency not a fellowship, so it's still heavily dependent on one's class rank and board scores. Cardiology is a fellowship and is dependent upon your LOR's, research, personality and connections. You can be a very average medical student but if you are a popular resident at your program with decent research, you stand a very good chance of matching into cardiology. However the opposite is not true for derm. Look how many DO's and Caribbean IMG's match into cardiology every year; that's just unheard of in allopathic derm.

Likewise, you can be ranked in the top 5% of your class and have a 240+ on Step I and not match cardiology because that program didn't like your personality or preferred someone they already knew. If anything, cardiology should be your backup not derm. You can't compare fellowship with residency selection because the criteria are entirely different. Fellowship still relies on the good ole boy system much moreso than residency.

NIQ said:

Heres one hell of an old bump, but I've settled on IM. Was a tough decision but after board scores and my lack of derm research I wouldn't have even been remotely close at being able to match.

However I've done a lengthy rotation in interventional cardiology and I think this may be "it". Everything clicked, physiology made sense, satisfaction was there, drugs work, etc.

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Excellent choice since you seem to like it. I've met an interventional cardiologist from Cleveland last week, he told me interventional cardiology is getting so interesting specially if you're thinking of "ballooning" in the future, they are even taking over cardiothoracic sugery!

Good luck!

novacek88 said:

Look how many DO's and Caribbean IMG's match into cardiology every year; that's just unheard of in allopathic derm.

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Are you saying that DOs are usually not accepted to allopathic Derm programs? Because that's what I had been hoping to do, apply to the allopathic programs in Texas. I made a quite competitive score on the USMLE, so I thought that would level the playing field out a little. I would be disappointed to hear that they would see "D.O." and throw my application away, but if that's true, I need to know now, before I waste time trying to get Derm electives!

It's terribly upsetting to know that I'm busting my hump in osteo school, and it won't mean anything because I will never be viewed to be "as good as" an MD even with better scores on THEIR board exam!

Mallory Weiss said:

Are you saying that DOs are usually not accepted to allopathic Derm programs? Because that's what I had been hoping to do, apply to the allopathic programs in Texas. I made a quite competitive score on the USMLE, so I thought that would level the playing field out a little. I would be disappointed to hear that they would see "D.O." and throw my application away, but if that's true, I need to know now, before I waste time trying to get Derm electives!

It's terribly upsetting to know that I'm busting my hump in osteo school, and it won't mean anything because I will never be viewed to be "as good as" an MD even with better scores on THEIR board exam!

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there's many threads about this already but here it goes:

You probably knew from the beginning that it'd be an uphill battle to get into any highly competitive specialty coming from an osteopathic school (they do emphasize primary care, don't they? is your OMM training going to give you any benefit as a derm?). Yeah its unfair, but remember that residency programs aren't going to take you just because your board score is higher than some MD applicants' scores. As many others probably can attest, a high step 1 score isn't going to land you a spot no matter if you come from Harvard or Lake Erie COM in Florida.

QuantumMechanic said:

there's many threads about this already but here it goes:

You probably knew from the beginning that it'd be an uphill battle to get into any highly competitive specialty coming from an osteopathic school (they do emphasize primary care, don't they? is your OMM training going to give you any benefit as a derm?). Yeah its unfair, but remember that residency programs aren't going to take you just because your board score is higher than some MD applicants' scores. As many others probably can attest, a high step 1 score isn't going to land you a spot no matter if you come from Harvard or Lake Erie COM in Florida.

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Yeah, I know. I'm just frustrated and letting off a little steam, because I do work just as hard as an MD student, you know? The worst part is that I'm not even GOOD at osteopathic manipulation and because of that I don't intend to practice it in the future - so basically I will be practicing like an allopath.

QuantumMechanic said:

there's many threads about this already but here it goes:

You probably knew from the beginning that it'd be an uphill battle to get into any highly competitive specialty coming from an osteopathic school (they do emphasize primary care, don't they? is your OMM training going to give you any benefit as a derm?). Yeah its unfair, but remember that residency programs aren't going to take you just because your board score is higher than some MD applicants' scores. As many others probably can attest, a high step 1 score isn't going to land you a spot no matter if you come from Harvard or Lake Erie COM in Florida.

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Uhhh...Old bump but:

FYI they emphasis primary care in their mission statements yada yada, but at my school we spend max 2 hours a week on our "OMM training." The rest of the time, we're schlepping through path, pharm, micro, cuddling up to goljan audio, and so on...I'd say, pretty much like any other med student around the country minus the weekly OMM. Anyway, the 2009 reality is, DO's have their own derm programs and have had them for a number of years, ~20 programs if I'm not mistaken...Why bother with the allo derm rat race? Not that DO derm is much easier to get into (even the few unfunded programs and combined IM/Derm or FP/Derm programs are competitive)...I see going osteopathic as an advantage for anyone interested in derm. 2020 will see 1/5 docs as DO's Sure you might have to choose "effleurage" as an added treatment option for persistent edema of rosacea on your derm boards, but I have yet to meet a DO derm that regretted going DO derm.