what are the starting salaries for ODs at commercial locations? Pharmacy is gaining ground on us as grads now start at $90,0000 or more and get a signing bonus in the range of $20,000. I don't want to work commercial or be a Pharmacist but I do think that this info is indicative of the value of an OD degree as compared to other professional degrees. What about an OD starting salary at an OMD/OD group practice; JChod, Ben Chudner, others that may be working or worked in these settings or have the knowledge?
starting salaries
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I have seen post on this Website, where students have been offered 90 to 100K right out of school.
It is hard to look at averages, because there are so many OD's that work part time. I for one would trust the AOA stats more that any goverment stats. The goverment gets thier stats from taxes... and people always downplay what they make on thier taxes (especially if your self employed). AOA conducts private surveys, and people are more likely to be upfront and honest with the surveys.
People like to compare Pharamcy Saleries and Opto Saleries, but the fact of the matter is many ODs have much better working conditions as a Pharamacist. (who are sometimes forced to work 12 hour days, and lots of overtime due to shortages). Also, a pharamacist right out of school makes almost the exact same amount as an pharamacist who has been out of school for 20 years (at least in retail anyway). However, I guess this could be the same as for ODs as well.
I think your earning potential for an OD is much higher in the long run, especially if you invest or join a private practice.
It is hard to look at averages, because there are so many OD's that work part time. I for one would trust the AOA stats more that any goverment stats. The goverment gets thier stats from taxes... and people always downplay what they make on thier taxes (especially if your self employed). AOA conducts private surveys, and people are more likely to be upfront and honest with the surveys.
People like to compare Pharamcy Saleries and Opto Saleries, but the fact of the matter is many ODs have much better working conditions as a Pharamacist. (who are sometimes forced to work 12 hour days, and lots of overtime due to shortages). Also, a pharamacist right out of school makes almost the exact same amount as an pharamacist who has been out of school for 20 years (at least in retail anyway). However, I guess this could be the same as for ODs as well.
I think your earning potential for an OD is much higher in the long run, especially if you invest or join a private practice.
did you mean to say "much better working conditions than a pharmacist"?
one problem I believe I've seen from the AOA stats is the number of ODs they survey...it appears to be a very small # and so I wonder how accurate their figures are as well...
I wonder how accurate your representation of pharmacy vs. optometry as a shortage can be a good thing too. It means you'll have a "good" paying job when you graduate. I've heard of ODs being forced to work nights and weekends and 50 hour weeks as well.
other thoughts?
one problem I believe I've seen from the AOA stats is the number of ODs they survey...it appears to be a very small # and so I wonder how accurate their figures are as well...
I wonder how accurate your representation of pharmacy vs. optometry as a shortage can be a good thing too. It means you'll have a "good" paying job when you graduate. I've heard of ODs being forced to work nights and weekends and 50 hour weeks as well.
other thoughts?
I have no idea about corporate, nor do I know what the starting salaries are for an OD/MD practice. I can tell you that I started out at 70K right out of residency in 1998 working for an MD. By 2000, I was making 90K. The first year after purchasing a private practice I made much more than that.gsinccom said:
Ben Chudner said:
Ben, if you dont mind I have a couple of questions. I was just wondering if you would recommend a residency? Did it help you at all? If so, what type of residency do you think would be the most helpful /in demand? Thanks
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Hines302 said:
I very much disagree with most of this.
I do agree that your maximum earning potential is to own your own practice, but I absolutely would not rely on data from the AOA to gauge average incomes of doctors.
Most of the people who respond to the AOA surveys are AOA members who are in their own practices and are therefore likely the highest income earners in the field which skews the results.
The people making 70k working for an OMD or 90k working for Walmart are very unlikely to be AOA members and therefore are very unlikely to receive or respond to these surveys.
My first position after I finished my residency was clinic director at a large refractive surgery center. I was paid $78000.
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Hines302 said:
I do recommend a residency but do not do one if you think it will give you a higher earning potential, or any more "respect" from other ODs and/or physicians.
For me it was helpful because I referred out far fewer patients than my collegues who did not do residencies.
Residencies are great for gaining additional knowledge after graduation. I chose an ocular disease residency because I felt I lacked the knowledge I needed to work for an MD. If you want to go into a specialty such as BV or LV then I think doing a residency in those areas is a good idea, although not a requirement, just as an ocular disease residency is not a requirement for working for an MD.Hines302 said:
Some things to remember about residencies:
1) They will not guarantee a higher salary
2) They may or may not make you more marketable
3) Some are merely a 5th year of optometry school, so choose wisely
As for what will be in demand, I have no idea. My advice is to do what you love.
KHE said:
Very good point concerning the AOA surveys... i guess i really didnt take that into consideration. So maybe the AOA stats are a bit high, and the goverment stats are a bit low. However, not being in the job market I guess you would have a better idea than me.
However, I still think Optometrist have much better working conditions than a pharmacist
when you start out working commerical or for an OMD do they provide benefits such as medical/dental/vision and retirement? do OMD offices and commercial joints require you to work more than 40hours/week and nights and weekends or does it just depend?
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gsinccom said:
Everything's negotiable. If it's not, just ask. For most commercial outfits, though, I wouldn't expect much (I got zilch from Sam's Club). For most OMDs, I would expect benefits since they already have the insurance and retirement plans in place.
why do ODs get zilch? Aren't PharmDs hooked up with preety sweet packages at the retail joints?
I believe in many cases the OD are required by state law and board regulations to be independent contractors. They basically operate their own small private practices in space provided by the optical and therefore aren't actual "employees" and thus not eligable for the benefits of employment.
jefguth said:
exactly... you are not offically or legally allowed to be employed by a corporation. you are an independant contractor and your salary is totally negotiable.
CPW..... Is this a benifit to the profession, or a draw back??
It's not that your salary is negotiable, it's that your salary is not guaranteed. As an independant contractor working within a Wal-Mart for example, your "salary" depends on how many patients you see. It is not really a salary. A salary implies a guaranteed amount of money per year for performing your duties at work. An OD in a Wal-Mart simply keeps whatever he/she collects from exams (minus a percentage or a set lease amount)cpw said:
I would say it's neither. There are several private practice OD's that pay their employed doctors as independant contractors. I personally do not believe that's legal, but I am no lawyer. The issue is not how it affects the profession, but how it affects the employee. I would never take a job that did not have benefits, that's why my associate doctor is an employee of my corporation and eligible for health insurance, 401(k) matching, and our pension and profit sharing plan.Hines302 said:
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I recently found out that Sears Optical (operated by LUX) pays their ODs a salary. To get around the state laws they say it is a consulting fee to help manage the optical. What they do is they have an agreed amount the OD gets paid. Since the OD collects his exam fee from the patient, LUX deducts that amount from what pay
..interesting
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rpie said:
That wasn't the case when Sears was with Cole. Interesting. I know that with the new opticals owned by "Lux" in Macy's they are guaranteeing the Docs income. Must be a similar arrangement.
Very interesting. Watch for state associations to try and get this changed.xmattODx said:
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stompy said:
when ods start getting paid per diem it's the beginning of something very bad - cost containment and lux is just in the early stages of their mission to make the life of ods - not bad, but not great either.
there are the pros and cons...but like everything in life...sooner or later you're going to have to pay!@
gsinccom said:
Okay, obviously this will vary with geographic location. But I think 90K is a little high. I started post residency at 75K with a host of added benefits, the next year at 87K and the next at 100. Just my experience. You can also check the Bureau of labor statistics. I would not put much stock in the AOA report, I believe they are grossly exaggerated.
jchod said:
jchod, if you dont mind me asking... what type of setting are you practicing in? Within three years (post residency) you were making a 100K? Thats really good. Just wondering in what type of setting you were in and what part of the country?
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interesting you brought you this up... I just graduated in May so I can give you a little break down (at least in my area) of what salaries are like. And I must say I was a bit startled. 5 years ago I worked as an optometric technician for lenscrafters (eyexam 2000) and spoke with a dr. who just finished up a residency and I asked him how much he was being paid. He was only a fill-in so he was making a per diem salary of $280. Fast foward to a few months ago, I interviewed with lencrafters as a Dr. and they offered me $286 per diem as a fill-in (the market is pretty saturated in northern california). Now I understand that these are per diem days, but still, what struck me was that 5 years have gone by and the wages have been completely stagnant. Maybe its a new grad thing. Anyhow, I think this is a bit low. After interviewing with other offices I have found that the going rate is between $300-$400 for part time or per diem days depending on where your working at. (this of course I can only vouch for in my area) I have peers who have moved to other states and gotten jobs at retail outfits for close to 100k, just depends on your area.
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