Endodontics - future of and residency programs?

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HulkHogan

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After finishing up some endo classes and clinicals, I have found that I really enjoy endo.

I am considering going into endo after doing some more research and getting some more experience but was wondering what everyone thought about these 2 issues:

1. what do you think the future of endo is like? a lot of people are telling me that the future of endo is uncertain because of the rise of implants. their argument is that once implants become more cost effective, implants will be more common place than endo --> thus driving endodontists to lose major income or seek work elsewhere.

2. endo residency programs. i know this has been addressed through various posts throughout the year but honestly i cannot find them. could some one shed some light on what sort of scores you need to get into an endo program? NDBE step 1..ect.....

3. Are there any endo programs that pay? Any endo residents on here that goto NYU? How is/was your experience there?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

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Everything here is my opinion, and what I've learned from SDN, DT, and speaking with endo programs directly (I was interested in endo a year or so ago).

1. Implants are great, but people will always strive to keep their natural dentition first. That is, most people would rather save their own teeth.

2. If you have no experience after graduation, and are attempting to go into endo right out of school, then I believe it is the most difficult specialty to get into. Part I scores of 95+ were what I was told by most of the program directors I contacted. If you have some experience after school (GPR, AEGD, or practicing), then board scores of 90+ are valuable, but they'll weigh your experience into the picture and allow it to compensate for lower scores.

3. There are endo programs that offer stipends, but I don't recall which ones they are.
 
HulkHogan said:
After finishing up some endo classes and clinicals, I have found that I really enjoy endo.

I am considering going into endo after doing some more research and getting some more experience but was wondering what everyone thought about these 2 issues:

1. what do you think the future of endo is like? a lot of people are telling me that the future of endo is uncertain because of the rise of implants. their argument is that once implants become more cost effective, implants will be more common place than endo --> thus driving endodontists to lose major income or seek work elsewhere.

2. endo residency programs. i know this has been addressed through various posts throughout the year but honestly i cannot find them. could some one shed some light on what sort of scores you need to get into an endo program? NDBE step 1..ect.....

3. Are there any endo programs that pay? Any endo residents on here that goto NYU? How is/was your experience there?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Hello there,

As I am very happy with my specialty now, I wish I would gone into endo! This is because these guys are making tons of money!!! Do not worry about the future of endo. It is great and always be great. DP
 
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Dr. Dai Phan said:
Hello there,

As I am very happy with my specialty now, I wish I would gone into endo! This is because these guys are making tons of money!!! Do not worry about the future of endo. It is great and always be great. DP

dude you wish you went into ortho first, now endo... plus all the comments about OMFS leads me to believe you want that to.... Why aren't you happy with Prosth? Why did you go into it versus endo, ortho, OMFS, pedo? I am tired of hearing this crap! :sleep:
 
GatorDMD said:
dude you wish you went into ortho first, now endo... plus all the comments about OMFS leads me to believe you want that to.... Why aren't you happy with Prosth? Why did you go into it versus endo, ortho, OMFS, pedo? I am tired of hearing this crap! :sleep:

Hello,

I sure hope you have a better manner to your patients than what I have seen from you. Let's me explain my reasoning here... I went into pros because I enjoy the nature of the work such as placing implants and restoring them, full mouth reconstruction, fabricating sleep apnea, TMJ appliance, going into OR to place surgical obturators, making palatal drop for patients without the tongue so they can speak, making ear, eyes, nose, so they are presentable in society. I enjoy the "status" of the master of treatment planning when other general dentists ask me for my opinion and more I can tell you. So I LOVE my specialty. The downside? The overhead in pros is about 60% so I am still a very poor dentist! I envy my endodontic friend who nets 400K with little overhead if at all. At times, looking at the bills that I have to pay makes me wonder if I should have choosen that route. Sometimes money does sound real good! What is crap about that? DP
 
Thanks guys. Anyone else have any input?

Any endo residents or specialists out there that might not mind fielding a few questions?

Thanks again!
 
HulkHogan said:
Thanks guys. Anyone else have any input?

Any endo residents or specialists out there that might not mind fielding a few questions?

Thanks again!

I love lamp.
 
This is what one of the residents told me:

The spectrum of cases seen purely by endodontists might have gone down a little bit for 2 reasons:

1) Previously, the top 20% cases that dentists would have taken a shot at saving the tooth now have the additional option of implants. With implants becoming more predictable, the balance may start shifting some time in the future.

2) The lower 20% or so which the dentists would have referred out are now done by the GPs themseleves with the advent of rotary instruments, apex locators, digital radiography and machine driven obturation systems like Obtura.

How ever, Endodontists still remain highly in demand, especially with the introduction of micro-surgery. Its amazing how small the access hole in the bone is now and with the ultra-sonic tips and MTA becoming better and better, Endo as a surgical speciality has been majorly revived.

I think other than the cost of the micro-scope, the out-going costs are really minimal compared to say some one who is majorly dealing with implants.
 
what is lamp?
 
HulkHogan said:
After finishing up some endo classes and clinicals, I have found that I really enjoy endo.

I am considering going into endo after doing some more research and getting some more experience but was wondering what everyone thought about these 2 issues:

1. what do you think the future of endo is like? a lot of people are telling me that the future of endo is uncertain because of the rise of implants. their argument is that once implants become more cost effective, implants will be more common place than endo --> thus driving endodontists to lose major income or seek work elsewhere.

2. endo residency programs. i know this has been addressed through various posts throughout the year but honestly i cannot find them. could some one shed some light on what sort of scores you need to get into an endo program? NDBE step 1..ect.....

3. Are there any endo programs that pay? Any endo residents on here that goto NYU? How is/was your experience there?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

well i think future of endo is still great. Dont be afraid of implants, there are endo programs like Loma Linda here and more to come that are teaching implants in endo programs.
Implants will be a part of every specialty in the near future.
(Warning! Perio...)

As far as going straight, you really need 95 above or 93 above with spectacular resume to get in. Of 50 endo programs only 20 consider straight outs and they all still prefer experience.
My friend and I who have 94 and 93 with research and tons of endo related activity recieved 4 interviews but was not offered a spot.
so unless you know someone in the endo program, experience and good scores are a must.

Im about to take the Part2 NBE.
Can anyone tell me whether endo programs emphasize part 2 score as much as part 1?
What is considered a decent score on part 2?
 
I differ on the opinion that endo programs want a lot of experience. The key to getting into endo program is always great numbers, i.e part 1 scores, GPA, rank and so on. I do feel that recent graduates are getting into Endo lately. Sure Endo is not like ortho which has majority recent graduates. I just feel that people who are still in school and are really interested in endo should always give it a shot and not get discouraged by the "experience" factor.
 
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Candles said:
I differ on the opinion that endo programs want a lot of experience. The key to getting into endo program is always great numbers, i.e part 1 scores, GPA, rank and so on. I do feel that recent graduates are getting into Endo lately. Sure Endo is not like ortho which has majority recent graduates. I just feel that people who are still in school and are really interested in endo should always give it a shot and not get discouraged by the "experience" factor.

oh, im not saying straight outs cant get in but you have to have great numbers if you dont have experience.
i do know ppl who got in straight but again, you are competing againts ppl who also have not only great scores but also experience.

i emailed all 50 endo schools and 30 flat out told me dont even apply without experience cuz we wont consider you.
from all the interviews i went, 75% or more of the applicants had GPR or work experience. in fact, in one of the school, i was the only one coming straight out.

just like someone said, going straight into endo is the hardest specialty to get in in my opinion.
 
Since this seems to be one of the only places where you can find people interested in endo on this forum I thought Id throw out a few questions that Im hoping youll be able to help me out with.

1. What are typical overhead percentages for an endodontist? Ive heard for a GP it can be usually in the 65-70% range (correct me if im wrong). I figure that itll be a lot less for an endo, considering no lab work, and much less staff. Also, if you have information as to the breakdown of this overhead, that would be great too.....equipment, staff, etc etc.

2. Whats the deal with rotary? Is it really gonna change the field and demand for endo??

3. What are typical charge rates for posterior and anterior endo?

4. Is the referral base for endo strong considering that GPs are doing more and more of their own endo??

I think thats good enough for now. Thanks a lot for your help.
 
Maxillicious said:
Since this seems to be one of the only places where you can find people interested in endo on this forum I thought Id throw out a few questions that Im hoping youll be able to help me out with.

1. What are typical overhead percentages for an endodontist? Ive heard for a GP it can be usually in the 65-70% range (correct me if im wrong). I figure that itll be a lot less for an endo, considering no lab work, and much less staff. Also, if you have information as to the breakdown of this overhead, that would be great too.....equipment, staff, etc etc.

2. Whats the deal with rotary? Is it really gonna change the field and demand for endo??

3. What are typical charge rates for posterior and anterior endo?

4. Is the referral base for endo strong considering that GPs are doing more and more of their own endo??

I think thats good enough for now. Thanks a lot for your help.

1. not sure
2. Yes already have
3. depends on area. here in LA, ~700-1000 average
4. 20% of all RCT are done by endodontists; rest of 80% by GPs
 
seungmka said:
1. not sure
2. Yes already have
3. depends on area. here in LA, ~700-1000 average
4. 20% of all RCT are done by endodontists; rest of 80% by GPs


Is it far fetched for an endo to see 5-6 patients a day?? Is this abnormally high or to be expected after establishing a practice??
 
Maxillicious said:
Since this seems to be one of the only places where you can find people interested in endo on this forum I thought Id throw out a few questions that Im hoping youll be able to help me out with.

1. What are typical overhead percentages for an endodontist? Ive heard for a GP it can be usually in the 65-70% range (correct me if im wrong). I figure that itll be a lot less for an endo, considering no lab work, and much less staff. Also, if you have information as to the breakdown of this overhead, that would be great too.....equipment, staff, etc etc.

2. Whats the deal with rotary? Is it really gonna change the field and demand for endo??

3. What are typical charge rates for posterior and anterior endo?

4. Is the referral base for endo strong considering that GPs are doing more and more of their own endo??

I think thats good enough for now. Thanks a lot for your help.

1. 17-21 percent (lowest overhead of any dental related profession)
2. Rotary is awesome. Makes endo fast, less chance of stepping canal.
3. 2-3X the price for a complete bony impaction
4. ????
 
Maxillicious said:
Is it far fetched for an endo to see 5-6 patients a day?? Is this abnormally high or to be expected after establishing a practice??

My endodontist spent 30 minutes on my apicoectomy and charged me $1200. I'm sure he can see more than six patients a day...
 
esclavo said:
1. 17-21 percent (lowest overhead of any dental related profession)


That figure is a little over-estimated. Although I'm sure there are offices that can approach that, the average overhead for endo is around 39-40%. I read it in two sources recently. One is the McGill Advisory's 2004 Annual Practice Profitability Survey, May 2005. In that resource in 2004 the overhead for endo was 43.8% and in 2003 it was 40.8%. Their definition of overhead is comprehensive including all office and staff costs. I posted a detailed explanation on another post in the other forum.

The other journal was either JADA or a clinical dentistry journal which was highly reputable. That quoted 40%, I searched my room for it but am unable to locate it at the moment.

Can you provide a source that quotes it that low? I'd be interested just for curiousity, and because it was substantially lower than what I've read recently.

FYI: According to the aforementioned profitability survey, for 2004 overhead is as follows:

Endo: 43.8%
Oral Sx: 50.3%
Pedo: 52.9%
Perio: 57.4%
Ortho: 57.5%
General: 60.9%

As I said, I'm sure you can find offices well over (and well under) these figures but they are all in the ranges I've read.

The article is in depth numbers-wise for each specialty and GP with nice text breakdowns of each specialty, comparing past numbers, profitability, etc etc. One of these days I'll scan it.

I thought about posting the entire article earlier but feel like too many dents and pre-dents will read it and choose specialties based on the $$ (more than usual at least). Perhaps if some of the vets in here were interested I would email or PM the file.

Here is a snippet regarding OMFS since there are a bunch of you on here:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oral surgery recorded another gain in practice profit percentages in 2004. Total ovehead expenses declined from 51.8% in 2003 to 50.3% in 2004, as a result of lower occupancy and nonoperating costs, for a drop of 1.5% points. Meanwhile, profit percentages increased from 48.2% in 2003 to 49.7% in 2003. Oral surgery continues to sport the secong highest profit percentage in dentistry, ranking it only behind endodontics.

Compared to five years ago, practice overhead expenses are up from 45.9% in 1999 to 50.3% currently, while profit percentages are down 4.4 percentage points from 54.1% in 1999 to 49.7% in 2004.

Practice profit percentages in oral surgery were up slightly over a ten year period (from 49.2% in 1994 to 49.7% in 2004) and were dramatically improved compared to 15 years ago (1989), when they stood at 44.6%, 5.1 percentage points below the current profit mark of 49.7%."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It then goes on to explain why the numbers are where they are at, regarding postive trends in omfs, etc etc.

It has this for every specialty and also the hard numbers for 2004, 2003, 2002, 1999, 1994, and 1989.
 
DcS said:
That figure is a little over-estimated. Although I'm sure there are offices that can approach that, the average overhead for endo is around 39-40%. I read it in two sources recently. One is the McGill Advisory's 2004 Annual Practice Profitability Survey, May 2005. In that resource in 2004 the overhead for endo was 43.8% and in 2003 it was 40.8%. Their definition of overhead is comprehensive including all office and staff costs. I posted a detailed explanation on another post in the other forum.

The other journal was either JADA or a clinical dentistry journal which was highly reputable. That quoted 40%, I searched my room for it but am unable to locate it at the moment.

Can you provide a source that quotes it that low? I'd be interested just for curiousity, and because it was substantially lower than what I've read recently.

FYI: According to the aforementioned profitability survey, for 2004 overhead is as follows:

Endo: 43.8%
Oral Sx: 50.3%
Pedo: 52.9%
Perio: 57.4%
Ortho: 57.5%
General: 60.9%

As I said, I'm sure you can find offices well over (and well under) these figures but they are all in the ranges I've read.

The article is in depth numbers-wise for each specialty and GP with nice text breakdowns of each specialty, comparing past numbers, profitability, etc etc. One of these days I'll scan it.

I thought about posting the entire article earlier but feel like too many dents and pre-dents will read it and choose specialties based on the $$ (more than usual at least). Perhaps if some of the vets in here were interested I would email or PM the file.

Here is a snippet regarding OMFS since there are a bunch of you on here:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oral surgery recorded another gain in practice profit percentages in 2004. Total ovehead expenses declined from 51.8% in 2003 to 50.3% in 2004, as a result of lower occupancy and nonoperating costs, for a drop of 1.5% points. Meanwhile, profit percentages increased from 48.2% in 2003 to 49.7% in 2003. Oral surgery continues to sport the secong highest profit percentage in dentistry, ranking it only behind endodontics.

Compared to five years ago, practice overhead expenses are up from 45.9% in 1999 to 50.3% currently, while profit percentages are down 4.4 percentage points from 54.1% in 1999 to 49.7% in 2004.

Practice profit percentages in oral surgery were up slightly over a ten year period (from 49.2% in 1994 to 49.7% in 2004) and were dramatically improved compared to 15 years ago (1989), when they stood at 44.6%, 5.1 percentage points below the current profit mark of 49.7%."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It then goes on to explain why the numbers are where they are at, regarding postive trends in omfs, etc etc.

It has this for every specialty and also the hard numbers for 2004, 2003, 2002, 1999, 1994, and 1989.

My source wasn't national. Your source looks very robust. My source is a dental accounting firm which gives practice management courses as CE and as primary curriculum at 3 dental schools. One caveat is that all of the dentist/dental specialists this firm takes care of (450-650/year) are in the midwest and mountain west with a few in the southwest. Traditionally, these areas have the lowest overhead and highest profit margins on average. Maybe that is why his numbers are skewed. His explanation with endodontists is that after initial practice debt (start up expenses-buy in expenses) that his average endodontist fluctuates between 17-21% overhead. He did say that buy in's for endo have become very expensive in bigger cities and well established areas due to endo profitability. The largest overhead for endodontists is staff. He also said that his average endodontist only has 2.3 staff per doctor including front desk!! WOW!! He also said that an endodontists staff are paid the least because of minimal formal skill levels needed and ease of training. Basic assisting skills, basic receptionist skills.
 
EyeAmCommi said:
My endodontist spent 30 minutes on my apicoectomy and charged me $1200. I'm sure he can see more than six patients a day...

I guess its not so much as to can an endo see 5-6 patients a day but more as to if they can, with rotary and all taking a larger chunk out of their referral base.

It'd be interesting to see which specialty or even GP experiences the greatest burnout. I mean all that time looking for small holes to ram your drill into.....
 
DcS said:
That figure is a little over-estimated. Although I'm sure there are offices that can approach that, the average overhead for endo is around 39-40%. I read it in two sources recently. One is the McGill Advisory's 2004 Annual Practice Profitability Survey, May 2005. In that resource in 2004 the overhead for endo was 43.8% and in 2003 it was 40.8%. Their definition of overhead is comprehensive including all office and staff costs. I posted a detailed explanation on another post in the other forum.

The other journal was either JADA or a clinical dentistry journal which was highly reputable. That quoted 40%, I searched my room for it but am unable to locate it at the moment.

Can you provide a source that quotes it that low? I'd be interested just for curiousity, and because it was substantially lower than what I've read recently.

FYI: According to the aforementioned profitability survey, for 2004 overhead is as follows:

Endo: 43.8%
Oral Sx: 50.3%
Pedo: 52.9%
Perio: 57.4%
Ortho: 57.5%
General: 60.9%

As I said, I'm sure you can find offices well over (and well under) these figures but they are all in the ranges I've read.

The article is in depth numbers-wise for each specialty and GP with nice text breakdowns of each specialty, comparing past numbers, profitability, etc etc. One of these days I'll scan it.

I thought about posting the entire article earlier but feel like too many dents and pre-dents will read it and choose specialties based on the $$ (more than usual at least). Perhaps if some of the vets in here were interested I would email or PM the file.

Here is a snippet regarding OMFS since there are a bunch of you on here:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oral surgery recorded another gain in practice profit percentages in 2004. Total ovehead expenses declined from 51.8% in 2003 to 50.3% in 2004, as a result of lower occupancy and nonoperating costs, for a drop of 1.5% points. Meanwhile, profit percentages increased from 48.2% in 2003 to 49.7% in 2003. Oral surgery continues to sport the secong highest profit percentage in dentistry, ranking it only behind endodontics.

Compared to five years ago, practice overhead expenses are up from 45.9% in 1999 to 50.3% currently, while profit percentages are down 4.4 percentage points from 54.1% in 1999 to 49.7% in 2004.

Practice profit percentages in oral surgery were up slightly over a ten year period (from 49.2% in 1994 to 49.7% in 2004) and were dramatically improved compared to 15 years ago (1989), when they stood at 44.6%, 5.1 percentage points below the current profit mark of 49.7%."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It then goes on to explain why the numbers are where they are at, regarding postive trends in omfs, etc etc.

It has this for every specialty and also the hard numbers for 2004, 2003, 2002, 1999, 1994, and 1989.


I know a dentist who did a survey of many many dentists in the Northeastern states of RI, MA, CT, NH. This includes specialists (except prosthodontists) and general dentists...the above is similar to the Northeastern states. Endo and OMFS had the least overhead (about 45%, with OMFS being slightly less than endo), Perio and General had the highest (around 65%, with perio being slightly more than general). Salaries for OMFS were the highest, this includes GROSS and NET. The average Gross was around 1 million and the NET was just above 500,000K. Perio was the lowest specialty in terms of income, partly due to their high level of overhead and they don't GROSS as much on average, as say Endo or OMFS, for example, but GROSSED more than Generals, hence the higher NET income, on average. So Perio makes 50K more per year and probably works less than a General on average. Generals made about 275K/ year NET, Perio 325K NET, PEDO, ortho, and endo were in the 350-400K range, and surgeons just above 500,000K. This survey was only private practices, and did not include academic dentists, oral path or public health or prosthodontists. I don't have any statistics for other parts of the country. CT had the highest income of the above aformentioned states, while RI had the lowest. I'm not gonna dig up the stats to back any of this up, but I do have them. TAke it as gospel or amusement. This is to give anyone interested in ballpark figures for the Northeastern region.
 
losingfaith27 said:
Salaries for OMFS were the highest, this includes GROSS and NET.

So OMFS makes the most? The rumor I head was endo had the highest income. I gues an OMFS can take out about 6 thirds in the time it takes an endo to a molar RCT. So that's like $2,500 vs. $1000, with similar overhead.
 
dc-10 said:
So OMFS makes the most? The rumor I head was endo had the highest income. I gues an OMFS can take out about 6 thirds in the time it takes an endo to a molar RCT. So that's like $2,500 vs. $1000, with similar overhead.

Yeah, I always thought endo was #1 in terms of income...maybe endo works fewer hours than OMFS, but not sure on that? I also thought Perio overhead was less considering that they use little in the way of materials (sterilization costs of scalers and molts), but I was wrong. I guess those membranes, bone graft materials and implants are expensive. I don't know what pros overhead would be, but I'm guessing it's higher than general. I've heard that you actually make less money when you take on full mouth cases because it requires extensive work up compared to run of the mill crown and bridge cases. Any idea what malpractice is for different specialties...heard perio was low, until they started doing implants...probably very high now.
 
I would guess perio has a higher overhead than most specialties because most of them employ multiple hygienists, most of whom have a fairly hefty salary.
 
Maxillicious said:
I guess its not so much as to can an endo see 5-6 patients a day but more as to if they can, with rotary and all taking a larger chunk out of their referral base.

*If* they can isn't even a question. Rotary isn't taking a larger chunk out of the referral base. It simply means that more GPs are doing endo, and as a result, more GPs are probably screwing up endo. Granted, it's tough to screw up some cases, but there are plenty that GPs probably tackle that they shouldn't. What about apicoectomies or retreats? GPs typically don't touch those.
 
So if you dont match, or get accepted straight outta school. what is more advisable: a GPR or practice?? I would think a GPR. But if theyre split, I think Id prefer doing practice to make some monies.

So based on what youre saying Gavin, is it reasonable to think that endos are seeing more and more complex cases. If rotary makes it easier to do 'easy' cases, then the 'screw ups' as well as the referrals would be, generally speaking, more difficult, no?
 
ItsGavinC said:
*If* they can isn't even a question. Rotary isn't taking a larger chunk out of the referral base. It simply means that more GPs are doing endo, and as a result, more GPs are probably screwing up endo. Granted, it's tough to screw up some cases, but there are plenty that GPs probably tackle that they shouldn't. What about apicoectomies or retreats? GPs typically don't touch those.


And more and more GPs are recommending implants over retreats and apicos. This is an easy sell to patients when they are told that a successful retreat/apico is still likely to fail in 7-10 years. A successfull implant, on the other hand, will last 25+years and may very well outlast the patient.

I'm not saying that is always the best course of treatment but it is a valid alternative. And many people are leaning in that direction.

Endo will be a great specialty for years to come, but it may not be the goldmine that it has been for the last few decades. Do it if you like it.
 
adamlc18 said:
I would guess perio has a higher overhead than most specialties because most of them employ multiple hygienists, most of whom have a fairly hefty salary.

Hi,

True that DH have hefty salary but they produce more too. Want to know about high overheads? Think PROS!!! DP
 
seungmka said:
As far as going straight, you really need 95 above or 93 above with spectacular resume to get in. Of 50 endo programs only 20 consider straight outs and they all still prefer experience.
My friend and I who have 94 and 93 with research and tons of endo related activity recieved 4 interviews but was not offered a spot.
so unless you know someone in the endo program, experience and good scores are a must.
Scores at 90 and above will be looked at. 3 class mates applied and 2 got straight in. You have to show the programs that you've really committed yourself to the endo specrtum since nowdays most schools don't even remotely prepare the new student to perform good endo on a regular basis when they finish. With that being said, maybe the refereals in the future will go up.
 
I wonder what endo will be like in 15 years?? It seems that the more composite that is done the more endo that it needed no?
 
HulkHogan said:
what is lamp?


Go rent "Anchorman, the Legend of Ron Burgundy"

So hot...Milk was a bad idea....
 
Dr. Dai Phan said:
Hello there,

As I am very happy with my specialty now, I wish I would gone into endo! This is because these guys are making tons of money!!! Do not worry about the future of endo. It is great and always be great. DP

you re a weak depressing underachiever. get up and grow a sack. i dont know your situation - if you re unsuccessful due to seemingly average english skills or that you re in an institution but get over it as no one wants to hear your sob story.
 
There's an interesting editorial in the front of this month's Triple-O journal about endodontists competing with implants vs. embracing them into their practice.
 
GQ1 said:
you re a weak depressing underachiever. get up and grow a sack. i dont know your situation - if you re unsuccessful due to seemingly average english skills or that you re in an institution but get over it as no one wants to hear your sob story.
Knock off the personal attacks, please.
 
GQ1 said:
you re a weak depressing underachiever. get up and grow a sack. i dont know your situation - if you re unsuccessful due to seemingly average english skills or that you re in an institution but get over it as no one wants to hear your sob story.
lol! :laugh:
 
Dr. Dai Phan said:
Hello there,

As I am very happy with my specialty now, I wish I would gone into endo! This is because these guys are making tons of money!!! Do not worry about the future of endo. It is great and always be great. DP


Hello Dr. Do you know of any good endodontists in the Los Angeles area or how I go about seraching for a good endodontist? Thanks
 
I think another thing to consider with the future of endo that I don't think has been mentioned is time.

From what I am hearing students graduating these days are entering the 'platinum' age of dentistry. In the history of dentistry this is the absolute best time to be a new dentist.

With more and more dentists retiring and not enough graduating dentists replacing them there is a possibility that there will be a shortage of dentists.

Plus, lets not forget the baby boomers, they are getting older AND they are keeping their teeth, which was not the case even 20 years ago.

So more patients with more teeth + less dentists = more work for dentists.

More general work for dentists (crowns, bridges, etc.) and less time for endo.

Granted, with the advent of rotary and new technologies endo has become a definate possibility for busy GP's. Plus throw in the "new" treatment option and success of implants there may be some concern for the endo specialty but I don't think so.

My feeling is that at the absolute worse, the amount of referrals and difficulty of cases endodontists see will remain relatively the same.
 
I hear that here at USC, they've been kicking arround the idea of adding placing implants to the endo curriculum. Now isn't that Ironic?
 
Hi,

True that DH have hefty salary but they produce more too. Want to know about high overheads? Think PROS!!! DP


Dear Dr.DAi Phan,

Let me thank you. You are a great source of knowledge/guidance to many FTDs here.
If I ever become a dentist here, I would owe some part of it to you.
God Bless you!!

I am sure there might be 100s of other sdn members who think the same.
keep it up!!:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
you re a weak depressing underachiever. get up and grow a sack. i dont know your situation - if you re unsuccessful due to seemingly average english skills or that you re in an institution but get over it as no one wants to hear your sob story.


Hey GQ1,
I dont think there is anything wrong with Dr.Phan here. Why dont you keep out all the sh**t to urself. We are all here to discuss and share information. SDN is a great forum to help us..and not to call names and derogate each other..

you are..or you will be a doctor one day..Behave like one. Where are all your ethics gone?

I really appreciate Dr.Phan for not answering to ur derogatory remarks. Thts what I call a man!!

Learn to respect others..and everyone respects you..We are all frnds here. Try keeping it tht way.

as for ur words all i have to say is :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
 
hey dagdar budbud,

this is a forum where prospective applicants can find out about our specialties. so let me enlighten you, as you are not even a dentist here yet. what is irritating in DPs posts as others have said is his inconsistency as one day he wishes he was endo, the next an astronaut. ....all of us now practicing pros are doing better than those in most other specialties from our graduating class ...he knows the reasons hes not doing well...dont depress prospective students with them if hes your role model good luck to you....but learn to spell if they ever grant you an F-1 visa before you get on that boat (theres only 1 i in sh**t)
 
oh, im not saying straight outs cant get in but you have to have great numbers if you dont have experience.
i do know ppl who got in straight but again, you are competing againts ppl who also have not only great scores but also experience.

i emailed all 50 endo schools and 30 flat out told me dont even apply without experience cuz we wont consider you.
from all the interviews i went, 75% or more of the applicants had GPR or work experience. in fact, in one of the school, i was the only one coming straight out.

just like someone said, going straight into endo is the hardest specialty to get in in my opinion.


Can you tell me which 20 schools will consider me straight out of school?
 
I hear that here at USC, they've been kicking arround the idea of adding placing implants to the endo curriculum. Now isn't that Ironic?

I never heard about such an irony.

implants in endo?

If you want deal with implants in endo, make implants that have root canals.

and when periapical lesions occur, do RCT on it:laugh:
 
loma linda already does implant course in endo specialty.
 
Most specialties now have to include implant PLACEMENT education to be accredited. These include Perio, OMFS, Prosth and recently Endo
 
Everything here is my opinion, and what I've learned from SDN, DT, and speaking with endo programs directly (I was interested in endo a year or so ago).

1. Implants are great, but people will always strive to keep their natural dentition first. That is, most people would rather save their own teeth.

2. If you have no experience after graduation, and are attempting to go into endo right out of school, then I believe it is the most difficult specialty to get into. Part I scores of 95+ were what I was told by most of the program directors I contacted. If you have some experience after school (GPR, AEGD, or practicing), then board scores of 90+ are valuable, but they'll weigh your experience into the picture and allow it to compensate for lower scores.

3. There are endo programs that offer stipends, but I don't recall which ones they are.



also, i think that one needs to have a certain minimum level of bone density to be eligible for implants. is there not a difference in the body's receptibility among patients? and what about PDL attachment? does it lach on to the implant as good as it does to the natural tooth?


this reminds me of a patient i witnessed when i was volunteering at a dental clinic. his implant fell off twice and it was not pretty....very bloody, messy and his money (implants are costly) went down the drain.
 
Implants, like all procedures, are not 100% successful. Smokers have a higher risk factor for failure.

There is no PDL like a natural tooth. The bone actually grows into the grooves. It's called "osseous integration". It's similar to an ankylosed tooth.

I'm not sure about bone density, but there is definitely a minimum bone quantity that is required for implants. Sometimes bone augmentation is needed.
 
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