Vet vs. MD

turtmd · Jan 17, 2006

Hi, I am a non-trad student just turn 27..planning to go to Medical School. I love animals, always been interested in biology, ecology, environment, and people always tell me that I should be a veterinarian because of my interest in scienceand love for animals.The problem is that I can't see an animal suffering, it breaks my heart, and my stomach hurts

So I decided to go to Medical school, but everytime I read the veterinarian forum I find myself thinking if I'm choosing the right path. I am not thinking of veterinary just because people tell me I should be one, but because I would like to be able to help animals, I love them, they make me happy and find them fascinating. So, I am kind of torn between the two. I would like to get some opinions about medicine vs. veterinary :idea:

HopefulUGACVM · Jan 17, 2006

RE: not being able to see an animal suffering... Would you rather see an animal suffereing and not be able to do anything about it, or would you rather be able to do something about it.

One thing my boss always says, is that he certainly does not like euthanising animals but he feels extremely lucky that he has the power to do so.

One thing you'll have to do to know for sure is to work/volunteer in a veterinary setting. We can give you all the advice in the world here, but you just have to find out for yourself by doing so

And when you do decide that vetmed is way better then we will welcome you with open arms

People in vetmed are more laid back too!

rdc · Jan 17, 2006

mokadet · Jan 17, 2006

true dat uga. The atmosphere difference is a big plus for me. I can't imagine spending my days in a stuffy office in a overly sterilized hospital (most doctors I know work in big city hospitals, so I'm sure my view is slanted). I'd much rather be smelling of horse crap in a cold barn or on my hands and knees wrestling with a dog. Most call me crazy!

Iain · Jan 17, 2006

There's a reason I plan on entering a high end equine practice when I'm finished - those clients will pay for treatment, and I will see some remuneration for my 10 years of schooling.

I think horse owners are the worst for - as you are here...

skibum · Jan 17, 2006

Turt,
I went through the same thing you did a few years back. I wasn't able to truly make my decision until I had volunteered both in a hospital setting as well as a vet clinic. Once I was exposed to both it made my decision easier. HopefulUGA is right, you really need to experience it so you know what you are getting into and whether you are making the right choice. There are some logistical things to consider however. Let me just list the pros and cons of vet med that I considered while going through the process.
Pros:
You get to practice medicine! (I realize that's a pro for both professions, but anyway...)
Quality of life - as a non-trad (I'm a 30 yo female) I appreciated the fact that I could go through 4 years of school and decide after that whether I wanted to continue with a residency or just jump into practice. Also, the doctors I know work 7:30-5:30 and the occassional weekend. Not that I don't want to work hard, but it's something to consider if you want to have a family someday. Your malpractice insurance is much lower too!
Diversity - Even though we are a small animal clinic, we see so many different health problems and issues walk through the door. Also, as a vet you don't have to choose between surgery and medicine, you can do both. Granted if you don't specialize, the majority of the surgery will be soft tissue, but that's cool enough for me!

Cons - pets are still considered a luxury item and I think a lot of people feel funny spending thousands of dollars to fix a torn ACL or on cancer treatment, or even a couple of hundred dollars on lab work. That is very frustrating! There are so many cool thing vets can do these days, but they are held back by the owners' ability to pay for them.
Pay - if you want to make a lot of money, choose the med route for sure. But keep in mind, if you break your work day down to an hourly rate, MD's don't make much more per hour than DVM's do. My family doctor in fact told me that if she broke her work week down to an hourly rate, she'd make about as much as a busperson! Possibly an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

okay, sorry for the ramble, that's not even half of what i wanted to say, but i think i've said enough.

i hope this helps. Spend a day at a clinic and see how you like it. and let us know what you decide!

chickenboo · Jan 17, 2006

This is something I struggled with as well. Of course I'm biased, as I'm sure we all are here, having chosen the vet med path, but it might be helpful to hear how I made my decision (will try not to ramble too much):

I was one of those people who has wanted to be a vet since the age of 5. I got some veterinary and animal experience in college and absolutely loved it, but it kind of just came to me one day that there was this whole other side of medicine that I hadn't explored. So I switched majors from animal sci. to genetics, got some experience in a human hospital, worked in a human medical research lab, even took the MCAT. Once I graduated college and started working, I really started to think hard about what I wanted out of life, and what it would take for me to get there.

I decided on vet med because I think it allows you more freedom to practice medicine: you can be an internist, surgeon, radiologist, dermatologist, etc. at all once--or you can specialize if you want, you don't have to deal with insurance companies telling you how to treat your patients or what drugs to use (granted, clients will often do this, but I still think you have more say as a vet), you get more freedom in setting your own hours, you get to work with animals and people, and after talking to a lot of physicians and vets, I found overall a much higher rate of job satisfaction with the vets. The point someone else made about malpractice insurance is a good one, too--I know of a lot of (really good) OB/GYNs who won't deliver babies anymore because of the risk of a malpractice suit.

Regarding the post about how much money you make, I would encourage you to do your research. It all depends on where you work and what specialty you're in. MDs often make a lot less $$ than most people think. I've heard you can make more $$ as a dentist than a doctor these days, because of the surging popularity of elective cosmetic procedures. And for MDs, there's a huge range. General practitioner might make $150,000 while a heart surgeon would be more up in the $300,000-$500,000 range. You can check these online--the U.S. job bureau or salary.com. It also depends a lot on where you live--obviously someone living in LA or New York will be making more than someone living in an area with a lower cost of living. A vet med example: my boyfriend is a second-year vet student. If he were to work (as a DVM) at the small animal emergency clinic he's been working at as a tech, he could make $100,000 for working 200 shifts a year. That leaves him with a good 165 days off--not too shabby. But again, this clinic is in LA so cost of living is a lot higher. But you definitely can make plenty as a vet--even in small animal. A doctor my bf knows who's a small animal emergency clinician at the UC Davis teaching hospital has been offered jobs for $200,000+ a year. The money's out there, so I wouldn't let that be the determining factor.

The best advice has already been given: get experience in both. I know I never would've been able to make the decision otherwise.

Sorry for rambling, and hope I've been helpful!

rdc · Jan 17, 2006

julieDVM · Jan 17, 2006

turtmd said:
Hi, I am a non-trad student just turn 27..planning to go to Medical School. I love animals, always been interested in biology, ecology, environment, and people always tell me that I should be a veterinarian because of my interest in scienceand love for animals.The problem is that I can't see an animal suffering, it breaks my heart, and my stomach hurts So I decided to go to Medical school, but everytime I read the veterinarian forum I find myself thinking if I'm choosing the right path. I am not thinking of veterinary just because people tell me I should be one, but because I would like to be able to help animals, I love them, they make me happy and find them fascinating. So, I am kind of torn between the two. I would like to get some opinions about medicine vs. veterinary

This is an interesting topic you've brought up- I graduated 2 years ago, and am in my first year of residency this year. If i had to go back all over again, i would go to med school too. I have a good friend who is in his first year of residency (human MD) - we are both doing surgery... If you look at the various things that we do in a day, we both are basically getting the same training and operating on similar cases. but he is earning twice what i am, and when he finishes, he will be earning almost 4 times what i am. Not only that, but he doesn't run into clients telling him that their dog doesn't need surgery and that i am just trying to get their money... granted he has to deal with insurance companies - but i'd rather deal with them than people who drive up in their BMW sucking on their starbucks coffee, but are unwilling to spend $4000 to save their dogs life.

Many times i have thought about going back and re-training as a human doctor - but the thought of having to go through med school again is depressing and daunting. My hope is that i will be able to get into a practice (or start my own) in a wealthy city, with clients that are willing and able to pay for my services - after all... i trained just as hard, if not harder than some MDs and i would like to be able to provide some nice things for my kids.

Lots of vet students these days (for some reason) feel ashamed to admit that they would like to drive a nice car, or live in a nice house... and i have no idea why. We should be demanding a decent income for our services, that reflects the amount of effort we put in to get through vet school.

loo · Jan 18, 2006

julieDVM said:
Many times i have thought about going back and re-training as a human doctor - but the thought of having to go through med school again is depressing and daunting. My hope is that i will be able to get into a practice (or start my own) in a wealthy city, with clients that are willing and able to pay for my services - after all... i trained just as hard, if not harder than some MDs and i would like to be able to provide some nice things for my kids.
Lots of vet students these days (for some reason) feel ashamed to admit that they would like to drive a nice car, or live in a nice house... and i have no idea why. We should be demanding a decent income for our services, that reflects the amount of effort we put in to get through vet school.

Thanks for your input, julieDVM! I may have no choice but to attend one of the carribbean schools and the idea of the debt I'd have scares me. I want to practice vet med and it is my dream; but I don't want to have to decide between food and paying off loans. I am also not 20 years old, but an older non-traditional student, so I really don't have the luxury of trying something else if something doesn't work out.

Olddodger · Jan 18, 2006

Hi all,

This is the same thing that I'm struggling with. I would much rather go the DVM route, for a number of reasons. First and formost, I'd rather treat critters. Lesser on my mind, but still significant is the the school footprint. 4 years instead of 7. I'm 38, and just starting my pre-recs, so you can see where that leaves me.

Flip side of the coin is that just from reading here, getting into ANY DVM program is insanely difficult, never mind sharpshooting for UF. Whereas if I want to stay in FL, I have a number of MD/DO options.

Fortunately, I have a number of contacts on both sides that have expressed more than enough interest that I can achieve a fair amount of clinical experience in either category prior to application time.

The compensation issue does weigh heavy on me, however. I just got through with one career where the downward cycle of wages made it a miserable place, with management constantly telling me I wasn't worth what I earned. I see the same thing in the DVM world, and I was exposed to a fair number of trollish clients when I was married (ex was a vet). I certanly don't want to contribute any more trouble to the 2nd career/trust fund child caused depression of wages that seems to be common in "fun/interesting" jobs.

As much as I want to pursue the DVM on philisophical grounds, $50-75k/yr makes it hard to justify analytically. In the big scheme of things, it's chump change, considering the time and financial investment.

Having just started my pre-recs, I have time to work it out, but it will be a tough call.

There is certianly NOTHING wrong with wanting to make some fair change for your effort. The trouble is convincing others in your industry to do the same.

Oldie

frozen_canadian · Jan 19, 2006

We all know that the money will suck starting. But I wonder if there is any way we can change that. I mean, most people do not value an animal's life as much as they do a humans, and are not willing to pay for our services. For a lot of people, it is much easier to euthanize there dog and get a new one than it is to spend $2000 on surgery. Sad, but true. I have wondered if there will be an increase in pet insurance plans. Insurance really seems to have jacked up the income in other professions like dentistry. But then again, most people will not be willing to contribute very much to such a plan, thereby cutting down on payment for services for us.
You can make a good living in the profession, but it takes a while to build up a reputation and your own clinic. It takes a lot of business sense and a lot of risk. But for someone coming out with $200,000 debt, starting on a $50,000 a year salary, this maybe next to impossible unfortunately. (I like the trust fund comment - there is a LOT of that in this profession).

lisa4747 · Jan 22, 2006

I had the same debate-- MD (or DO) vs DVM
I chose to go for DVM and now I'm studying at Cornell. The bottom line is, and I was told this by an ER room doc whom I was seeking advice from "take the money off the table when making a decision like this"
She was right. Now I'm in vet school and I can see 100 different ways to make money. I also am a returning student who worked in the corporate world for a long time, I know how important a real salary is but it's silly to look online and see what the average vet makes and go by that. If you want to be a veterinarian and make a lot of money you can, period. You will figure it out. Don't give up a dream because you "think" you might not do as well. Look around.. lot's of vets do VERY well and OWN their own practices. My sister is a people doctor and she can't open her own pratice because it's too expensive.. so where is the great benefit in that? I might make less all along but I can build something, leverage against it for years and sell it when I'm done practicing.. Have you seen any starving veterinarians on the streets? The money will be fine.. do what you love.. you live once.. the world isn't that scary.. just turn off Fox News.

julieDVM · Jan 23, 2006

lisa4747 said:
I had the same debate-- MD (or DO) vs DVM
I chose to go for DVM and now I'm studying at Cornell. The bottom line is, and I was told this by an ER room doc whom I was seeking advice from "take the money off the table when making a decision like this"
She was right. Now I'm in vet school and I can see 100 different ways to make money. I also am a returning student who worked in the corporate world for a long time, I know how important a real salary is but it's silly to look online and see what the average vet makes and go by that. If you want to be a veterinarian and make a lot of money you can, period. You will figure it out. Don't give up a dream because you "think" you might not do as well. Look around.. lot's of vets do VERY well and OWN their own practices. My sister is a people doctor and she can't open her own pratice because it's too expensive.. so where is the great benefit in that? I might make less all along but I can build something, leverage against it for years and sell it when I'm done practicing.. Have you seen any starving veterinarians on the streets? The money will be fine.. do what you love.. you live once.. the world isn't that scary.. just turn off Fox News.

Although i dont disagree with you totally - i will say this: students dont get an accurate picture of the true market place while in school. The teaching hospital is an artifical enviornment, where in a lot of cases, they get to treat the patients that walk through the door. One of the biggest issues i've got with our line of work are the clients that wont pay for a service that is easily administered to save an animal - and opt to either let the dog suffer, or euthanize it. This happens a lot in our profession. Although some vets may have better clientel than others, its still a major point of frustration. Further, i think removing money from the equation is short sighted. Yes there are ways to make money in the profession - but let me tell you, most MDs will clean our clocks hands down (especially when you compare specialist fields). And as far as opening a practice - it costs just as much, and usually more to open a veterinary practice - we usually require a lot more equipment than human GP's. The overhead of a vet office, is much like the over head of a dental office - except dentists are pulling in a lot more income than we do.

I dont want to discourage any of you from our profession - but i definitly want to make sure you all know what you're getting into. You can earn a decent living in our line of work... you can be successful and you can do a lot of good for the animal community. But not being able to treat our patients and give them the best quality of care is *very* taxing, and probably one of the major reasons we have one of the highest burnout rates amoung health care providers.

loo · Jan 23, 2006

Hey julieDVM...

Do you think completing an internship/residency is worth the time, $, and effort?

Do you think the days of "4-years and straight to practice" are over--economically and intellectually?

Can you list factors affecting burnout in veterinary medicine not already mentioned?

Thanks, and I enjoy reading your perspective

julieDVM · Jan 23, 2006

loo said:
Hey julieDVM...

Do you think completing an internship/residency is worth the time, $, and effort?

Do you think the days of "4-years and straight to practice" are over--economically and intellectually?

Can you list factors affecting burnout in veterinary medicine not already mentioned?

Thanks, and I enjoy reading your perspective

I think the reasons for burnout are varied - but i'm sure the root cause of them have to do with the stress of running a practice, dealing with difficult clients who refuse care to their animals, clients that stiff you with the bill etc. I'm sure there are studies out there that can better characterize the reasons for attrition from the field.

As for specialty training - its not for everybody. Sometimes I'm at work for days on end with no sleep and no breaks. Residency training is really difficult, and there are times when I sit there and wonder if I made the right choice and whether I should continue or not. But I knew that i didn't want to do vaccines and routine physical exams - nor did i want to treat internal medicine cases. I just wanted to do surgery - so a surgical residency was definitely the way to go. Fortunately for me I love what I do, and i'm good at it. I think that these days, students are being forced to focus their training early (like in 2nd year) and that results in streamlining to either companion animal, farm animal etc. While there are bonuses to this - there are serious drawbacks as well. I think that all students should be forced to do everything - and then once they're finished, an internship year should be mandatory. Whether that internship year is in an academic institution, or in a private practice - it doesn't matter, but i believe that a year of supervised practice once you're out of school is invaluable. Further, i think that those students who decide to do the small animal route, and therefore dont get the large animal training (and vice versa), are cheated out of potential experiences that could shape the type of practice you enter - and thereby limits your options once you've graduated. Further to this - you never know where you're going to end up one day - and if you happen to end up in rural mixed practice - you need to know how to deal with everything.

Vet medicine is going through a revolution. I just finished saying that we need to be good generalists - but the truth of the matter is that we are being forced to specialize in a single species simply due to the fact that the volumes of information that we're required to learn on each species are almost insurmountable. I suspect that in 10 years, GPs will be referring a lot more cases to specialists simply because the training specialists receive is far more advanced - I'm not sure that general vets will be doing any surgery beyond routine spays and neuters - as the standard of care a specialist can provide will far surpass what a GP can provide. This may mean that our future grads are forced to specialize, just as human MDs are. Obviously this is speculation, however it is a real possibility.

As far as the financial return is concerned - if i were a mature student returning to vet school to train for a secondary degree i wouldn't be considering doing a residency - if your 30 and returning to vet school, that means you're 34 when you're finished, and if you pursue a residency, then you're pushing 40 by the time you're finished. Its not worth it for a person in this situation. However for me, i was 24 when i finished vet school, and i will be a boarded specialist before i'm 30. It was definitely worth it for me.

There are so many things to consider - once most people finish vet school they are so sick of school all they want is out!

frozen_canadian · Jan 23, 2006

Getting back to the original topic, has anyone ever heard of an MD going back to school to get his/her DVM? It seems there are a lot of cases of vets returning to be human physicians, but not the other way around. Needing a little encouragement here......

giles · Jan 23, 2006

frozen_canadian said:
Getting back to the original topic, has anyone ever heard of an MD going back to school to get his/her DVM? It seems there are a lot of cases of vets returning to be human physicians, but not the other way around. Needing a little encouragement here......

Yes, I know of one -- my local vet (in New Zealand) completed a medical (MD equivalent) degree then turned around and went to vet school. Haven't yet had a chance to ask him why.

meyao · Jan 24, 2006

As far as the financial return is concerned - if i were a mature student returning to vet school to train for a secondary degree i wouldn't be considering doing a residency - if your 30 and returning to vet school, that means you're 34 when you're finished, and if you pursue a residency, then you're pushing 40 by the time you're finished. Its not worth it for a person in this situation.

***
Why is it not worth it? Is it just due to the financial considerations? I think that if someone starts vet school later (in their 30s) and really wants to specialize, s/he should go for it, being fully aware, of course, of the debt burden from vet school plus the paltry salary of an intern/resident.

Bill59 · Jan 24, 2006

I know of two people that dropped out of med school to go to vet school. In one case, she suffered a severe car accident during shool and was out for a year. She decided she could never see another person go through as much pain as she did and decided to become a veterinarian.

In the other case, she chaged her mind during her first OB-GYN rotation ... enough said.

frozen_canadian · Jan 24, 2006

Thats better. I'll add my own. Theres a girl in my class who applied to vet and med 2 years ago, was accepted to med but not vet, yet turned her med school acceptance down. She reapplied and got into vet school last year.

youthman · Jan 25, 2006

meyao said:
As far as the financial return is concerned - if i were a mature student returning to vet school to train for a secondary degree i wouldn't be considering doing a residency - if your 30 and returning to vet school, that means you're 34 when you're finished, and if you pursue a residency, then you're pushing 40 by the time you're finished. Its not worth it for a person in this situation.

***
Why is it not worth it? Is it just due to the financial considerations? I think that if someone starts vet school later (in their 30s) and really wants to specialize, s/he should go for it, being fully aware, of course, of the debt burden from vet school plus the paltry salary of an intern/resident.

I think it is due to financial considerations and possibly health considerations. Lets face it once you get into your 30s its harder to recover from those all nighters. Even as a student you have to manage your time more wisely. As far as financial yes there's a big difference between being 40 and $200,000 in debt and 30 and $200,000 in debt. If you're a specialist by 30, then by the time you're 40 you should be debt free and living pretty well (even for a vet

) If you're 40 and $200,000 in debt you probably have a family and other bills so you may spend the rest of your life paying off debt and living a lower quality of life, even though you are a highly skilled professional. How frustrating would that be? My goal as a 30 yr old student is to get into vet school ASAP, get out ASAP, and start working ASAP!! Find a good location, make a business of it and try to make it as profitable as possible. I have no shame in saying that! I worked for a younger vet that bought an established practice and is now doing VERY well financially. The debt he incurred from school is nothing to him. He has much more fun with his work than any human GP I know of too. I really enjoyed this thread by the way, some good honest responses.

meyao · Jan 26, 2006

youthman said:
I think it is due to financial considerations and possibly health considerations. Lets face it once you get into your 30s its harder to recover from those all nighters. Even as a student you have to manage your time more wisely. As far as financial yes there's a big difference between being 40 and $200,000 in debt and 30 and $200,000 in debt. If you're a specialist by 30, then by the time you're 40 you should be debt free and living pretty well (even for a vet ) If you're 40 and $200,000 in debt you probably have a family and other bills so you may spend the rest of your life paying off debt and living a lower quality of life, even though you are a highly skilled professional. How frustrating would that be?

Not as frustrating as settling for something other than what you put your mind to (if your mind is set on specializing at the ripe "old" age of 30-something)!

P.S. You're dreaming if you think that 40-year old doctors and vets who went to school in their 20s are "debt free". This is definitely the exception, not the rule.

frozen_canadian · Jan 26, 2006

I think youthman was referring to school debt.

meyao · Jan 26, 2006

frozen_canadian said:
I think youthman was referring to school debt.

So was I.

julieDVM · Jan 26, 2006

meyao said:
Not as frustrating as settling for something other than what you put your mind to (if your mind is set on specializing at the ripe "old" age of 30-something)!

P.S. You're dreaming if you think that 40-year old doctors and vets who went to school in their 20s are "debt free". This is definitely the exception, not the rule.

Show me the data that proves that physicians (MDs and vets) are still paying off their student loans at 40 (after practicing for 15 or so years).

docdoc · Jan 26, 2006

youthman said:
I think it is due to financial considerations and possibly health considerations. Lets face it once you get into your 30s its harder to recover from those all nighters. Even as a student you have to manage your time more wisely.

I was a vet for 4 yrs before returning to med school (3rd year now) and can assure you that unless you are practicing in a large city with emergency clinics or in a large group the all nighters continue well past the 30's in both professions. We took call for a wk at a time every other wk as a vet and I could count on at least one all nighter every wk with a full work day to follow. It was a mixed animal practice however and things probably aren't that bad in small animal only. It's easier to find a specialtly/job in human med that involves less call but very few with the exception of maybe dermies will totally escape it.

julieDVM · Jan 26, 2006

docdoc said:
youthman said:

I think it is due to financial considerations and possibly health considerations. Lets face it once you get into your 30s its harder to recover from those all nighters. Even as a student you have to manage your time more wisely.

I was a vet for 4 yrs before returning to med school (3rd year now) and can assure you that unless you are practicing in a large city with emergency clinics or in a large group the all nighters continue well past the 30's in both professions. We took call for a wk at a time every other wk as a vet and I could count on at least one all nighter every wk with a full work day to follow. It was a mixed animal practice however and things probably aren't that bad in small animal only. It's easier to find a specialtly/job in human med that involves less call but very few with the exception of maybe dermies will totally escape it.

Click to expand...

I've thought about going back and retraining a few times - why did you go back?

youthman · Jan 26, 2006

meyao said:
Not as frustrating as settling for something other than what you put your mind to (if your mind is set on specializing at the ripe "old" age of 30-something)!

P.S. You're dreaming if you think that 40-year old doctors and vets who went to school in their 20s are "debt free". This is definitely the exception, not the rule.

How is that? School debt probably maxes out at about $200K, maybe $225K but that's really pushing it. As a specialist vet you are making $100K or more per year. As a specialist MD you are making $300 - $500K per year. Either way 10-15 years is plenty of time to pay of that debt unless you are horrible at money management.

meyao · Jan 27, 2006

youthman said:
How is that? School debt probably maxes out at about $200K, maybe $225K but that's really pushing it. As a specialist vet you are making $100K or more per year. As a specialist MD you are making $300 - $500K per year. Either way 10-15 years is plenty of time to pay of that debt unless you are horrible at money management.

No need to be insulting here. All those other commitments that you mentioned people having (family, kids, mortgage, etc.) compete with school loans for even the higher end specialist salaries. Granted, all else being equal, a human specialist will make far more than his veterinary counterpart and hence be able to pay off the debt more quickly.

Let's not forget, too, the unfortunate divorce rate that tends to accompany those in the medical profession (Can you say alimony and child support? -- this is currently the bane of a 42-year old MD/DPhil friend of mine and, yes, one of the reasons why he's still paying off his debt... roughly 15 years after finishing both degrees)

Anyway, it seems this discussion has gotten off track. I say a 30+ year old wanting to specialize after vet school should go for it. You think otherwise. That's fine with me. I only know what works for me; others should pursue what works for them.

docdoc · Jan 27, 2006

youthman said:
How is that? School debt probably maxes out at about $200K, maybe $225K but that's really pushing it. As a specialist vet you are making $100K or more per year. As a specialist MD you are making $300 - $500K per year. Either way 10-15 years is plenty of time to pay of that debt unless you are horrible at money management.

Paying it off quickly is actually horrible money management. School loans are cheap money with todays rates. You are better off financing for longer periods. Invest the money that would have been spent on loans and let it start working for you.

PeterEP · Jan 31, 2006

Average MD makes 140-150 working 50 hours or so... and not 500K.. check out the AMA's website

zufuss · Jan 31, 2006

docdoc said:
Paying it off quickly is actually horrible money management. School loans are cheap money with todays rates. You are better off financing for longer periods. Invest the money that would have been spent on loans and let it start working for you.

right on.

youthman · Feb 6, 2006

docdoc said:
Paying it off quickly is actually horrible money management. School loans are cheap money with todays rates. You are better off financing for longer periods. Invest the money that would have been spent on loans and let it start working for you.

Great advice - but that only further proves my point. If you would rather invest that money then that is a CHOICE and not a burden. If you have been a specialist for 15 years and STRUGGLE with your loan payment than you have some other issues going on.

youthman · Feb 6, 2006

PeterEP said:
Average MD makes 140-150 working 50 hours or so... and not 500K.. check out the AMA's website

I never said 500K was the average, especially for "average" MD's, if you are referring to my statement. Do they have info on specialists? (couldn't find anything myself)

This is old but for 1999 average specialist made $219,000. We are talking about specialists and I believe they are making more than that now, $200K is on the low end of the spectrum. My sister is a pulmonary specialist and made that much starting (after fellowship).

TABLE 1: Physicians' Net Income from Practice of Medicine, 1999, and Percent Change, 1995-99

Average Reported
Net Income
Percent Change in Income,
Adjusted for Inflation

1999
1995-97
1997-99
1995-99
All Patient Care Physicians
$187,000
-3.8%*
-1.2%
-5.0%*
Primary Care Physicians
138,000
-5.4*
-1.1
-6.4*
Specialists
219,000
-3.5*#
-0.6
-4.0*#
* Rate of change is statistically significant at p<.05.
# Rate change for specialists is significantly different from change for primary care physicians at p<.05.

Notes: Reported net income: Income from practice of medicine after expenses and before taxes. Income reports are lagged. For example, in the 2000-01 survey, physicians reported annual net income from practice of medicine for 1999. Real income: Reported net income adjusted for inflation. Inflation adjustments based on the BLS online inflation calculator, http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl. Comparison year is 1995.

Sources: HSC Community Tracking Study Physician Survey

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