Daddy, I want that residency!

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Misterioso

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Donor's Son Got UCI Residency: The O.C. physician gained the position in the hospital's radiology unit in the month his father promised the department $250,000.

Christian Berthelsen, Times Staff Writer

A young Orange County physician was accepted into a newly created residency position in radiology at UCI Medical Center the same month his father pledged $250,000 to the radiology department, according to records and interviews.

***** was not chosen by UCI during the regular selection process that determines where most medical school graduates do their residency to become a specialist.

UCI officials said there was no connection between the gift and *****'s admission, that the son was well-qualified and that the university followed proper procedures in filling the spot.

"He is a one-of-a-kind applicant -- one of the best residents in the group," said Dr. *****, director of radiology who accepted the son into the program.

***** is the only resident whose salary is paid out of a fund the radiology chair controls, which is separate from the money his father donated. ***** said that was because the department needed an additional resident immediately, and this enabled him to pay the salary of about $40,000 annually.

Radiology is the second-most difficult residency program to get into in the nation, behind only orthopedic surgery, according to the National Residency Matching Program. *****'s appointment and the timing of his father's donation have raised questions at UCI about the appropriateness of the arrangement.

"In areas of medicine, it's especially important that expertise and merit drive decisions," said *****, chairman of the medical ethics department at the University of Pennsylvania. "It looks like the prospect of donations may have shaped their assessment of the candidate's admissibility. I hope not, but it looks that way."

*****, a law professor at Boston University who has written about the residency programs for the Journal of the American Medical Assn., agreed: "This seems unethical," she said. The father, Dr. *****, chief of staff at Coastal Communities Hospital in Santa Ana, who teaches in UCI's radiology department on a volunteer basis, pledged the gift to the department to honor Dr. *****, according to a university spokeswoman, *****.

***** signed a contract for the residency position in November 2004 and started in January 2005, according to *****. The father's donation went to a fund for a women's imaging center in the radiology department, which ***** created to help pay for better equipment and staff recruiting. ***** said he donates $3,000 per month of his salary toward the effort.

***** and the elder ***** denied the donation was given in exchange for the son's residency position. ***** said he had long wanted to increase the number of residents and finally was able to do so last year. ***** said he began discussing a donation with ***** in early 2004. He said he and ***** discussed his son's desire to join UCI's residency program but never in connection with the donation. He said he realized the circumstances appeared questionable, but that he never intended to influence the outcome of his son's application -- and noted that he could have made his donation anonymously if he wanted to hide his involvement.

"I would never do something like that," he said. "It never even crossed my mind, that I would buy a residency. Even if my son wasn't there, I would donate to UCI." *****, the university spokeswoman, said ***** had made two $25,000 payments toward his pledge. ***** did not return calls requesting comment.

UCI's medical programs have come under scrutiny in recent months after revelations that its liver, kidney and bone marrow transplant programs fell short of federal and state standards. The disclosures are the latest in a string of problems that have plagued the university hospital in the last 10 years.

The Times has reported that UCI turned down large numbers of kidneys and livers, even as patients waited for them, at times because it did not have surgeons to perform transplants. In both programs, patients died before they could receive the organs.

The four-year residency program is part of the training medical school graduates receive, allowing them to be supervised by doctors while earning their licenses and gaining experience. ***** said he interviewed several people for the new residency slot, including *****. He said he chose ***** because he agreed to fill a specialty position in ear, nose and throat radiology that ***** wanted to create.

***** said the creation of the position and the selection of ***** were approved by *****, dean of the College of Medicine. *****, a spokesman for the medical center, said ***** was traveling and unavailable for comment. ***** said he created the extra position because he felt his staff was stretched too thin and he wanted to expand the program. But records show the radiology program has not created any additional positions in subsequent years. After receiving his medical degree from Boston University in May 2003, ***** completed a one-year internship at a nearby hospital, according to his father.


***** and ***** acknowledged ***** did not "match" with UCI through the National Residency Matching Program, a ranking system that pairs medical school graduates with residency programs. ***** said his son ranked UCI among his choices, but he did not initially obtain a position through the matching process. More than 90% of applicants secure their residencies through the matching program.

In every academic year since 1999, UCI has had approval for only 22 residency positions in the radiology department, according to the American Medical Assn. and the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education.
There is some confusion about when UCI received approval for the ***** slot, which brought the number of residents to 23. The council said it approved the position in August 2004. ***** said he did not receive approval until January 2005. He could not explain the discrepancy. UCI's payroll department said ***** started as a resident physician on July 1, 2004.

The council examines residency programs and approves the number of training spots based on several factors, including number of patients, funding and number of faculty. The council must OK increases in residency positions. In some cases, the agency will sanction a school if it fills more residency positions than it has approval for.

***** and ***** said ***** worked in an unofficial, unpaid position in UCI's radiology department throughout the last half of 2004 in order to learn more and to spend time at the school.
 
If I had a daddy who could get me a residency so that I could avoid spending all this money on travel, interviews and eliminate the anxiety of not knowing the future and save all the time I spent driving all over the country.... I would take it. 😉
If a simple call by daddy didn't work and he had to pay someone off to take me though...then I would just have an inferiority complex forever. I would be embarassed that it took a quarter of a million to get them to take me. :laugh:
 
"Ortho and Rads the two most competitive residencies according to NRMP?"

nonsense.
 
And for daddy, the donation is probably even tax-deductible.

(residency programs will at times accept extra residents if an outside party e.g. a company or the military make funding available. Bringing your own money is generally frowned upon.)
 
My dad told me that when he was in med school, the family of one of his classmates funded the development of an entire department at one of the school's hospitals. Guess who happened to match in the first residency position they offered (in a very competitive specialty)? Correct - my dad's classmate. The guy finished the residency and never ended up practicing - he went back to the family business (that is no way medically related).
 
What is the point of this? Are there still fools left out there that suffer under the delusion this is all some giant meritocracy where even some kid from the barrio who parents crossed the Rio grande to give birth to him in the desert so he could one day rise to become the Mallinckrodt Chair of Radiology?

Yes all residency spots are based on a flawless meritocracy where the elaborate buttlicking games of medical students are ignored, where female med students dont give sexual favors for "honors" and where 250 grand is just a nice gesture by the family of an otherwise exceptional resident applicant!!! :laugh:

Hahaha. This is nothing. The LA Times should publish articles on the number of ex-stripper turned med students who sleep their way into derm or the number of junkies that make gas their life calling...that would be real news.
 
LADoc00 said:
female med students dont give sexual favors for "honors"
Hahaha. This is nothing. The LA Times should publish articles on the number of ex-stripper turned med students who sleep their way into derm


Wow 😱 I'd like a link to those stories...that some good juicy and salacious type stuff that I think we'd all like to read about

the one thing that gets in the way is that I haven't really come across many strippers that are applying to med school...although maybe you could have a really smart and hot chick who took up stripping during med school because she maxed out her student loans and then couldn't afford the car and breast implant payments anymore...so her live in boyfriend Rico "muscled" her into stripping to bring home the bacon 👍 then on one night of sweet serendipity she gave a lap dance to the program director of her med school's dermatology department...at first they did not know each other, only later during the stripper's dermatology elective did they re-unite...and that's when the $hit hit the fan...knowing that she had a powerful bargaining chip on the table...the young stripper/medstudent cornered the PD in his office and the rest is history 👍

I'd have jessica simpson play the stripper/med student and jack nicholson play the derm PD...nick lachey could be the jealous ortho resident/boyfriend...eva longoria could play a female derm faculty member secretly having an affair with the nick lachey character...LaDoc coud play himself and start taking up "relations" with jennifer love hewitt the mousy IM resident :meanie:

Also, let's not forget Kevin Bacon who is all related to this somehow :laugh:
 
well atleast they created a new spot for him instead of giving him one of the positions offered thro the match...atleast the deserving ones did'nt miss out.
 
matakanan said:
well atleast they created a new spot for him instead of giving him one of the positions offered thro the match...

"atleast the deserving ones did'nt miss out."

Well maybe not in this particular occasion, but it has happened to persons like me. I didn't match last year, and guess who they ended bringing into the residency program? 2 out of the 3 spots were filled by Mexican graduates. Yup, people who didn't even attend a 4 year AAMC accredited Medical school.

I was totally frustrated, and it made me realize that in today's society it does not matter what school you go to, what grades you get, as long as you get the connections... This of course can be through political connections, monetary incentives, or if your a hot looking girl (Too bad I am a man) through a exquisite BJ & F^&K to the Program Director , and of many other ways you may think about.

Hey look at the president of the US. He is the dumbest most incompetent person I have seen in my life, but because "most of the federal judges" were appointed by his father; he ended winning 2000 election against Gore...

The rest is wicked history....
 
Hey look at the president of the US. He is the dumbest most incompetent person I have seen in my life, but because "most of the federal judges" were appointed by his father; he ended winning 2000 election against Gore...

So far he sounds smarter than you. He ended up winning because he won! 😎
 
penguins said:
So far he sounds smarter than you. He ended up winning because he won! 😎


Dude, I am not going to argue with you. Let the blind lead the blind...
 
Sivastraba said:
Dude, I am not going to argue with you. Let the blind lead the blind...
...and the angry sore losers cry
 
penguins said:
...and the angry sore losers cry


So tell me Penguin how many million dollars have your received so far from all the non-bidding contracts your perfect president has handed out in Iraq's reconstruction. The Carlyle Group, Halliburton, not to mention the big Corporate scandal of Enron, and now recently Jack Abramoff...
 
Sivastraba said:
So tell me Penguin how many million dollars have your received so far from all the non-bidding contracts your perfect president has handed out in Iraq's reconstruction. The Carlyle Group, Halliburton, not to mention the big Corporate scandal of Enron, and now recently Jack Abramoff...

Surprise answer... none
Is this really the appropriate venue for such rantings? Can't criticize on the merits so you bring up Enron? 👎
 
Sivastraba said:
I didn't match last year, and guess who they ended bringing into the residency program? 2 out of the 3 spots were filled by Mexican graduates. Yup, people who didn't even attend a 4 year AAMC accredited Medical school.

Did the mexican candidates have really bad usmle scores? i mean other than the fact that they did'nt go to a US med school, what was wrong with them ?
 
matakanan said:
Did the mexican candidates have really bad usmle scores? i mean other than the fact that they did'nt go to a US med school, what was wrong with them ?


Well it was my Medical School. If a residency program is affiliated to certain Medical School shouldn't they give priorities to their own students/graduates...
 
matakanan said:
Did the mexican candidates have really bad usmle scores? i mean other than the fact that they did'nt go to a US med school, what was wrong with them ?


Well it was my Medical School. If a residency program is affiliated to certain Medical School shouldn't they give priorities to their own students/graduates...?
 
Sivastraba said:
Well it was my Medical School. If a residency program is affiliated to certain Medical School shouldn't they give priorities to their own students/graduates...?

No offense, really... but if they didn't follow that general rule of taking their own by passing you up... maybe there was a reason. Like personality or something. Not that yours is bad but just not "meshing" or something? Or maybe they didn't know you wanted to be there?
Sorry, that must have been a blow! Did you ever ask about it?
 
penguins said:
No offense, really... but if they didn't follow that general rule of taking their own by passing you up... maybe there was a reason. Like personality or something. Not that yours is bad but just not "meshing" or something? Or maybe they didn't know you wanted to be there?
Sorry, that must have been a blow! Did you ever ask about it?


Maybe, It seemed while I was carrying out the elecitve like all the Residents had some sort of "conspiracy" with the Faculty members in which they wanted to know if you would rank them first or not. They were constantly pressing on this point and even harassing you about it. They didn't seem to like the idea of their students carrying out electives in other programs. I guess it was a series of factors that could have played against me. Anyway, F^&* IT They are just a Bunch of whiners with some sort of inferiority complex. They can stay with their program and do whatever they want with it. I didn't apply to the program this year, and hopefully I will match this year into my specialty of interest...
 
I didn't apply to the program this year, and hopefully I will match this year into my specialty of interest...

Good Luck!
 
Sivastraba said:
Well it was my Medical School. If a residency program is affiliated to certain Medical School shouldn't they give priorities to their own students/graduates...?

They should, If u were on par with the imgs in regards to ur scores, research and most importantly ur personality.

If u were'nt then sorry, survival of the fittest....

Unless of course, if u knew that the mexicans were actually children of some really rich folks/donors or that they did some amazing sexual favours to get the positions....
And u have'nt told us yet if they fell in either of the two categories... which was somewhat the reason for this thread discussion , not whether US grads should be preferred over IMGs.
 
So does this mean if somebody has enough money to pay his/her way through residency then a program may create an extra position for him/her?

If you think about it the program would win both ways---they'd have an extra resident to do the work and they wouldn't be paying for him/her.
 
Misterioso said:
So does this mean if somebody has enough money to pay his/her way through residency then a program may create an extra position for him/her?

If you think about it the program would win both ways---they'd have an extra resident to do the work and they wouldn't be paying for him/her.
Plus the fact that the rich kid need'nt be grossly incompetant...afterall he did pass thro med school.. so i guess he would'nt be a danger to his patients as a resident
 
Ergo said:
"Ortho and Rads the two most competitive residencies according to NRMP?"

nonsense.

My thoughts exactly . . . even for 2004 I'm sure this is not accurate.
 
So what if a kid got a residency spot because daddy gave some money? This kind of things happens daily everywhere in all aspects of society. Even on the ethical level, what's wrong with buying a spot, if you are qualified to apply? What gives a candidate with higher scores or better grades more claim to a spot you paid for?

In ths society, the wealthy can do much more than we think; those who cannot, are not rich enough.
 
Astrocyte said:
So what if a kid got a residency spot because daddy gave some money? This kind of things happens daily everywhere in all aspects of society. Even on the ethical level, what's wrong with buying a spot, if you are qualified to apply? What gives a candidate with higher scores or better grades more claim to a spot you paid for?

In ths society, the wealthy can do much more than we think; those who cannot, are not rich enough.
Ethically speaking, I don't see how one could argue that a residency spot should be bought. Do you want a doctor who paid for his residency spot or one who worked hard for it? Being that this person had his residency bought and paid for, who knows if that means he will be exempt from things required from other residents? Will the attending feel obliged to look the other way if this resident repeatedly makes mistakes?
Many aspects of our society are unfortunately corrupt, but medicine should be above this.
 
Then the unethical person would be the attending, wouldn't you say? If an attending looks the other way because he likes the intern, would you call the intern unethical for being personable? Don't you think this happens all the time? How many people have the edge for being likable? Many factors like this that have nothing to do with predicting future performance of any particular candidate as a doctor, goes into selection process (Many would make the case that grades and scores don't predict good physicians either). These factors are considered because it might improve, for example, group performance or, dare I say, financial performance of an institution. This does not automatically mean patient care will suffer. If anything, these factors are thought to improve patient care overall. In many cases, they do.

Residency spots are not marketmaker seats on Wall Street. They are positions of service. If anyone who are "qualified to apply" wants to pay his own way to do residency as volunteer work, by all means, give it to him. If it would make you feel better, I propose higher price tags for these spots.

Those who cry "not fair" should think about what they have to contribute to the profession that's so impressive that the hospital should give them a chance over $250k or say $1 million that comes with another qualified person, who might or might not be a superior doctor.
 
Because this isnt the presidency or i-banker where any ****** can outsource his work to other people and claim credit for it. Lives are at stake, and some rich ***** will actually be directly involved in killing people.

At least if a person is likeable or smart it is because of themselves. Being rich has nothing to do with you as a person, it has everything to do with your parents. So basically you have no redeeming quality except that you somehow managed to be the one sperm that fertilized an egg, and one of those happened to be made by a rich person. Congratulations, you are basically a rich chimpanzee.

Also, medicine used to be a trade profession before the Flexner report and doctors sucked bigtime for the most part because people would buy their kids slots to become doctors. We have come a long way since then, and the last thing we need are dumbarse classists turning back the clock to a more incompetent medical era.
 
This argument can be taken back even farther. Most med students come from relatively priveledged upbringings to begin with which allows them to go to med school. Yeah sure there are underpriveledged people too in med school. But by in large med students come from upbringings that facilitates for them to enter med school and become doctors. Whether that be by parents and peers who support them to become doctors or by coming from a family where all they have to concern themselves about is studying and not working to put themselves through college. Either way it's never really "fair" since lots of people will have significant advantages over others when it comes to getting into med school and residency.
 
So what if he is rich? he had to pass thro med school and then after residency clear his boards. And if he has passed thro med school, then he is good enough to be a doc just as anybody else. (although personally i feel any reasonably intelligent person could pass thro med school)
The PDs can't really assess a med student during the interview and find out if he has an aptitude for radiology or ortho or surgery ec. or for the matter if he is competant enough to practice medicine. Pretty much the med student decides what he wants to be ...
 
Astrocyte said:
Then the unethical person would be the attending, wouldn't you say? If an attending looks the other way because he likes the intern, would you call the intern unethical for being personable? Don't you think this happens all the time? How many people have the edge for being likable? Many factors like this that have nothing to do with predicting future performance of any particular candidate as a doctor, goes into selection process (Many would make the case that grades and scores don't predict good physicians either). These factors are considered because it might improve, for example, group performance or, dare I say, financial performance of an institution. This does not automatically mean patient care will suffer. If anything, these factors are thought to improve patient care overall. In many cases, they do.

Residency spots are not marketmaker seats on Wall Street. They are positions of service. If anyone who are "qualified to apply" wants to pay his own way to do residency as volunteer work, by all means, give it to him. If it would make you feel better, I propose higher price tags for these spots.

Those who cry "not fair" should think about what they have to contribute to the profession that's so impressive that the hospital should give them a chance over $250k or say $1 million that comes with another qualified person, who might or might not be a superior doctor.


The biggest problem with this scenario is that the residency positions are restrictive and competetive because there is a high demand, and a short supply. This is, in my opinion, because the medical specialties have wrapped a stranglehold on medicine by making it impossible to practice unless you are a medical specialist. This means you must do your time for the "guild" to get admittence to the "guild."

To keep incomes relatively high, the specialty societies strictly control the number of slots available, and the number of people in training, thus controlling the supply. Thus the market is supply side controlled.

If, on the other hand, any willing and qualified provider of residency program seats could decide to do so, and they could auction them off to the highest bidders to any qualified applicant, then we would see real market forces in action. The incomes/salaries that specialists could charge would undoubtedly go down, the bidding price for seats (price of admission/entry barriers to practice), would go down until a new equilibrium is met.

Musing for a post call day...
 
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