Gay and thinking of Yeshiva/Einstein?

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Spitting Camel

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Well, you might want to think again... Check out the link at the bottom of this exerpt and form your own opinions. Apparently, a lot of students are engaged in legal procedings at this very moment.

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http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_21210877.shtml
Med School Sued Over Expulsion Of Gay Man
by UPI Wire
Mar 17, 2006

NEW YORK, March 17, 2006 (UPI) -- A former student at a New York medical school contends he was expelled because of his sexual orientation.

Jeevan Padiyar says a copy of a memo written by an administrator at Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Yeshiva University proves the point, The New York Post reports.

In the note, a professor is warned about his support of "an openly gay student."

The university's lawyers say the memo is a fake and Padiyar was expelled for an e-mail he sent a faculty member. Padiyar's lawyer received the memo from an anonymous supporter.

"Who in their right mind would write such a letter?" asked Daniel Riesel, Yeshiva's lawyer.


http://yeshivavictims.org

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Spitting Camel said:
Well, you might want to think again... Check out the link at the bottom of this exerpt and form your own opinions. Apparently, a lot of students are engaged in legal procedings at this very moment.
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Ok, maybe I'm just too dumb to read between the lines, but how do you come to the conclusion that "a lot of students are engaged in legal proceedings at this very moment?" This is a two-paragraph article about ONE guy who claims he was expelled b/c he was gay and got a lawyer. I'm not gay, but I have to say that AECOM strikes me as being one of the MOST diverse, welcoming schools toward people who are not part of the mainstream culture, including URMs, non-trads, very religious students (orthodox Jews, but also Muslims and Christians), students from other countries, and yes, gays.
 
I really really hope that this is a horrible hoax. It is hard to believe that discrimination this blatant exists, and I would be interested to hear Yeshiva's side of the story.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Medikit said:
This seems fake
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I don't know. I don't think we should be so quick to decide that. If you read the info on the YeshivaVictims site it seems like it could be serious. If this whole thing is true, I feel really bad for the guy who got kicked out--it sounds like he had a lot going for him.
 
The guy, was expelled and he is suing. That is not a hoax.


There is a question as to whether he is actually the author of an e-mail that was offered as the reason why he was expelled. There is also a question as to whether the memo he claims was written by a school authority is real or a fake. Why he was expelled and whether he will prevail in court is the rest of the story... stay tuned.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060317-074203-8759r
 
As a resident of NY, I have heard this news not from Einstein directly but from various news outlets. I would really love to hear the opinions of current AECOM students. I am very interested in Einstein as I wait to hear from my last waitlist.

I decided early in the application process not to apply to NYMC following their blatantly discriminatory stance on the right of gay students to have a school club. If this information about AECOM is true, I would have to reconsider my possible attendance. Hoping for further updates from current students..
 
Has anybody seen a formal response from Yeshiva on this? I would think that if I were an administrator, and people were suggesting that my school was anti-gay, I would come out with a strong memo released to the press expressing a commitment to diversity etc. If there has been no such memo, that is in itself rather telling.
 
Flopotomist said:
Has anybody seen a formal response from Yeshiva on this? I would think that if I were an administrator, and people were suggesting that my school was anti-gay, I would come out with a strong memo released to the press expressing a commitment to diversity etc. If there has been no such memo, that is in itself rather telling.
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You know the drill: schools never comment while something makes it way through the courts.
 
what is this email he supposedly sent a prof?
 
LizzyM said:
You know the drill: schools never comment while something makes it way through the courts.
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I don't think it would hurt the court case at all if the school just announced, "Our anti-discrimination policy prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and the current administration strongly supports this policy."

I know I took NYMC OFF of my list of schools because of the way they responded to a similar challenge.
 
Flopotomist said:
I don't think it would hurt the court case at all if the school just announced, "Our anti-discrimination policy prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and the current administration strongly supports this policy."

I know I took NYMC OFF of my list of schools because of the way they responded to a similar challenge.
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They wouldn't want to be proven wrong in a court of law - or have the evidence suggest otherwise. It does suck though. For some reason, staying silent = "guilty!" for private citizens. But for schools/corporations/large bodies of criminals, cowering behind "due process" is the standard.
 
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Rafa said:
They wouldn't want to be proven wrong in a court of law - or have the evidence suggest otherwise. It does suck though. For some reason, staying silent = "guilty!" for private citizens. But for schools/corporations/large bodies of criminals, cowering behind "due process" is the standard.
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I am not sure about this - when Denny's was accused of discrimination, I recall vocifrous objections from their corporate headquarters even while the court case was moving forward. Where is Law2Doc when we need him?
 
Flopotomist said:
I am not sure about this - when Denny's was accused of discrimination, I recall vocifrous objections from their corporate headquarters even while the court case was moving forward. Where is Law2Doc when we need him?
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LOL -

R - "Does Denny's participate in racial discrimination?"

CEO - "No comment."

R - "Does Denny's hate black people?"

CEO - "We'll let the courts decide that."

I think in some situations, the rule is best broken. But you're right - I'm not sure about this at all. We'll need more than armchair lawyering to solve this case. :)
 
As a current 4th year Einstein student who is gay, I have to say I was very surprised, although skeptical, about this most recent claim. I doubt any of you know this, but this news comes just a couple of months after a series of emails and claims from other expelled Einstein students who say they were discriminated against and generally wronged by Einstein. By most of us students, those previous claims were considered rather silly (the girl stated that Einstein discriminated against her because she was Jewish and that our dean of students, who is a psychiatrist, used "soviet psychiatry" to make her confess to cheating). One of the school's lawyers did respond in that case, although it did take a number of days. Because of the press Padiyar's case is getting, though, I would expect a response much earlier.

Unfortunately, Einstein has a pretty rocky history when it comes to gay rights. When I was applying here, the most public case was something about Einstein not granting a gay student and his partner couple's status for housing, because they were not married. This went to court, etc., and now people can be "domestic partners" and obtain couples status for housing.

About this new story in particular, I know very little. I don't know Jeevan Padiyar, I don't know if he wrote a crazy email, I don't know if he was slacking off in his PhD work or if he stole a camera or hard drive (both claims by Einstein), and I definitely don't know if Dr. David wrote that terrible email. If it somehow is proven that he did, I seriously hope that the new dean would ask for Dr. David's resignation.

In general, though, I think it's ridiculous to draw the conclusion that his expulsion was based solely on his being gay. It sounds like there are a lot of underlying issues going on that he may not want to make public on his defensive website. There are many openly gay students at Einstein, and I have to say that most of us are doing very well.

This was too long, I'm sorry.
 
emmd06 said:
As a current 4th year Einstein student who is gay, I have to say I was very surprised, although skeptical, about this most recent claim. I doubt any of you know this, but this news comes just a couple of months after a series of emails and claims from other expelled Einstein students who say they were discriminated against and generally wronged by Einstein. By most of us students, those previous claims were considered rather silly (the girl stated that Einstein discriminated against her because she was Jewish and that our dean of students, who is a psychiatrist, used "soviet psychiatry" to make her confess to cheating). One of the school's lawyers did respond in that case, although it did take a number of days. Because of the press Padiyar's case is getting, though, I would expect a response much earlier.

Unfortunately, Einstein has a pretty rocky history when it comes to gay rights. When I was applying here, the most public case was something about Einstein not granting a gay student and his partner couple's status for housing, because they were not married. This went to court, etc., and now people can be "domestic partners" and obtain couples status for housing.

About this new story in particular, I know very little. I don't know Jeevan Padiyar, I don't know if he wrote a crazy email, I don't know if he was slacking off in his PhD work or if he stole a camera or hard drive (both claims by Einstein), and I definitely don't know if Dr. David wrote that terrible email. If it somehow is proven that he did, I seriously hope that the new dean would ask for Dr. David's resignation.

In general, though, I think it's ridiculous to draw the conclusion that his expulsion was based solely on his being gay. It sounds like there are a lot of underlying issues going on that he may not want to make public on his defensive website. There are many openly gay students at Einstein, and I have to say that most of us are doing very well.

This was too long, I'm sorry.
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But extremely helpful! I'm not gay, but I wouldn't want to attend a school that purports to do what Padiyar says they did. However, I am suspicious...there's no way AECOM would do something that patently dumb. Even if the school secretly harbors anti-gay prejudicies, they would not act unless something set it off.
 
Just how many students have been expelled from Yeshiva/Einstein lately? Is this something indicative of the school or the students themselves? I rarely hear about med school expulsions, so I'm curious.
 
potato51 said:
Just how many students have been expelled from Yeshiva/Einstein lately? Is this something indicative of the school or the students themselves? I rarely hear about med school expulsions, so I'm curious.
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I have heard of 3 since I've been here. I don't know if there have been any others.

1) Girl who cheated on an anatomy exam. She failed the exam, we got our practical answer sheets back (they were written in pencil), she changed a couple of her wrong answers to right ones, then she showed it to the head of anatomy, saying she passed. He had made a copy of the paper. This is the girl who said she was discriminated against for being Jewish AT EINSTEIN!! She also said that the anatomy professor made sexual advances towards her. She is absolutely insane.
2) A 4th year when I was a 2nd year got drunk at our housing in Manhattan when he was rotating down there. A chair was thrown out of a window. A nurse saw it happen. He was expelled.
3) This most recent case.

In the first, it is definitely something about the student. In the second, I thought they were a little harsh, but people at the Manhattan housing were very upset - "endangering peoples lives" and all. We shall see about the third. Actually, I'm not even sure he has been officially expelled yet.
 
emmd06 said:
I have heard of 3 since I've been here. I don't know if there have been any others.

1) Girl who cheated on an anatomy exam. She failed the exam, we got our practical answer sheets back (they were written in pencil), she changed a couple of her wrong answers to right ones, then she showed it to the head of anatomy, saying she passed. He had made a copy of the paper. This is the girl who said she was discriminated against for being Jewish AT EINSTEIN!! She also said that the anatomy professor made sexual advances towards her. She is absolutely insane.
2) A 4th year when I was a 2nd year got drunk at our housing in Manhattan when he was rotating down there. A chair was thrown out of a window. A nurse saw it happen. He was expelled.
3) This most recent case.

In the first, it is definitely something about the student. In the second, I thought they were a little harsh, but people at the Manhattan housing were very upset - "endangering peoples lives" and all. We shall see about the third. Actually, I'm not even sure he has been officially expelled yet.
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Wow - there is so much cheating that profs xerox your tests before returning them? Or did they just xerox hers because she is a freak?
 
the kid totally faked the letter. when things don't go people's way they always resort to the race card, or in this case sexuality card. people resort to cards is what i'm trying to say.
-mtoa
 
Wow, this thread has really made me think twice about becoming gay.




Isn't NY like the capital of gays in America? Why haven't some new yorkers learned to live with them yet? For now, I guess the jury is still out regarding what really happened at AECOM.
 
happydays said:
Wow, this thread has really made me think twice about becoming gay.




Isn't NY like the capital of gays in America? Why haven't some people learned to live with them? For now, I guess the jury is still out regarding what really happened at AECOM.
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becoming gay? is that a joke.
-mota
 
drmota said:
becoming gay? is that a joke.
-mota
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Yes... Next time I make a joke, I'll write a footnote.
 
happydays said:
Yes... Next time I make a joke, I'll write a footnote.
Click to expand...

ok.
-mota
 
Flopotomist said:
I don't think it would hurt the court case at all if the school just announced, "Our anti-discrimination policy prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and the current administration strongly supports this policy."
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Here's the statement you wanted to see from the school's web site:

All College decisions with regard to faculty, staff and students are based on equitable and equally applied standards of excellence. Affirmative Action procedures have been established, both as a legal obligation under applicable law and as a visible and formal expression of institutional policy. This policy is designed to insure that recruitment, hiring, training, promotion, and all other personnel actions take place and all programs involving students, both academic and non-academic, are administered without regard to race, religion, creed, color, national origin, sex, age, disability, veteran or disabled veteran status, marital status, sexual orientation or citizenship status as those terms are used in the law.
 
Flopotomist said:
Wow - there is so much cheating that profs xerox your tests before returning them? Or did they just xerox hers because she is a freak?
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I think it has more to do with the fact that the anatomy professor is anal as hell, but that's a discussion for another time. :rolleyes:
 
We should start another thread like this one and call it
"Attending Yeshiva/Einstein and thinking of becoming gay?"

:)
 
He probably made it up. That's just my two cents. Although us Jews think that leading such a lifestyle is an abomination, we don't force our views onto others and einstein does not discriminate. In fact, a bunch on aecomers made some homemade spoof videos and one of them is called "brokeback hospital". I'll try to find the link.
 
yanky5 said:
...Although us Jews think that leading such a lifestyle is an abomination...
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It might be prudent to remember that you don't speak for all Jews on the matter. :rolleyes:
 
yanky5 said:
He probably made it up. That's just my two cents. Although us Jews think that leading such a lifestyle is an abomination, we don't force our views onto others and einstein does not discriminate. In fact, a bunch on aecomers made some homemade spoof videos and one of them is called "brokeback hospital". I'll try to find the link.
Click to expand...

Regarding what is or isn't an abomination, please read the following:

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim
 
Best. post. EVER :thumbup: :laugh: :laugh:
 
That's one of the funniest things I've ever read!!!
 
yanky5 said:
He probably made it up. That's just my two cents. Although us Jews think that leading such a lifestyle is an abomination, we don't force our views onto others and einstein does not discriminate. In fact, a bunch on aecomers made some homemade spoof videos and one of them is called "brokeback hospital". I'll try to find the link.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, making a video called, "Brokeback Hospital" isn't exactly demonstrating acceptance of gays.

I have nothing productive to add to this conversation.
 
drmota said:
the kid totally faked the letter. when things don't go people's way they always resort to the race card, or in this case sexuality card. people resort to cards is what i'm trying to say.
-mtoa
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i agree, and i'm glad someone else has finally realized this.

also with the copying of exams, some profs copy exams at random to catch those losers who change their answers. i know this from personal experience as a past loser.
 
Spitting Camel said:
Regarding what is or isn't an abomination, please read the following
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I've seen the exact same letter addressed to Bush based on his stance against homosexuality.

and I know many Jews (including a few Orthodox Jews) who are supportive or at least understanding of the homosexual lifestyle, moreso than many people from other religions. So I wouldn't just assume an Orthodox Jew couldn't have a liberal or semi-liberal stance on such things or that this allegation is necessarily true.

P.S. Rafa, I've decided you and I are the same person.
 
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that you can smite someone who doesn't like your scarifice. Very funny.

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

You are misinterpuiting the verse. The hebrew word used does not mean a slave. It means a house keeper. It is possible to sell your daughter to work at somebody's house until she is a marriagible age and then she's supposed to marry the guy. If they don't like each other, than she goes free. The sages frown upon this and it was NEVER done. It is only a possible senario that somone can do if they are really dirt poor and can't afford a wedding. So, it's better off that the daugter works a few years as a maid and gets married, rather than to never get married.

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

You find it very amusing to make fun of observant jews, don't you? Us genuine Jews love G-d and the Bible, and we observe this with pride. That's right, we don't have contact with our wives when they have their periods. I don't care if western civilization thinks this is funny, but the daily schema changes from generation to generation but the truth remains the same.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

In Judaism, if you are at war with your enemies, you can capture some of them as slaves. Unfortunitely, I don't think the same applies for non Jews. So, get circumsized and maybee I can give you some of my slaves (laugh). And if we capture ben laden, he would make a good slave for my household.

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

That's only if he is Jewish. Non Jews are not allowed to keep the Sabbath. Even then, you need 2 male witnesses and you have to warn him first. Plus, you need a supreme rabbinic court which we don't have today (unfortunitely).

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Homosexuality is an abomination not only for Jews, but for non Jews also since it also violates the 7 commandments to the sons of Noah which all NON Jews must obey to go to heaven. Also, the Bible clearly calls it an abomination which is very severe. Plus, according to the Bible, if a male Jew engages in these actions in front of witnesses and with warning, the death penalthy applies. Eating shellfish is a sin for Jews, but is permitted for non Jews.

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

If you read the bible more carefully and go to the preceding verses, this verse is only applying to the sons of Aaron who are the priests who offer the sacrifices. Anyone may bring a sacrifice, but the priest who kills the animal and performs the sacrifice must be unblemished. And glasses does not count as a blemish. It must be more severe.

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

Again, this only applies if you are jewish. That's why observant Jews don't destroy the hair around their temples. You are allowed to trim it. The bible speaks about cutting it extremely short or bald. (according to the oral law passed down through Moses)

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

Firstly, this only applies to Jews. Secondly, since the Temple unfortunitely is not around today, everyone is unclean to begin with.

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

This paragraph has to many misquotes and errors to even wright about. Firtsly, cotton and polyester are permitted. Only linnen and wool mixed togeather are forbidden. Again, this only applies for Jews. I am happy to right that us Jews are very careful to obey this commandment. Also, the penalty of death does not apply to what you menchaned.

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

No problem. I take pride in representing G-d's chosen people and in observing the bible to its entirety. You need to work on your study, since you have tons of misquotes and misconceptions. I would not read the english translation of the Bible since it is frequently twisted. I would learn hebrew and read the original version us Jews have preserved for thousands of years since Mount Sinai. Also, since you are not Jewish, you only must observe the 7 commandments of Noah, so you shouldn't get so angry that you are not observing the holly bible. That's for us Jews who love G-d so much that we wish to emulate him and walk in his holly ways. Any more
questions?

Those people who say "I am jewish and I don't think being gay is bad" are in fact not really jewish. A real Jew believes that the Bible is the word of G-d and proudly follows the Bible to its entirety. Any jew who thinks that the Bible must be dropped whenever it is conflict with modern society is in fact not a real observant Jew. Most of these so called "Jews" have no respect for their religion and end up marrying cathlics so that their children are not even Jewish. Every 20 years, the view of society changes in such a way that the mindset in the 1970's is not the same mind set as today. If the bible would be changed every 20 years to accomodate modern society's views, then it would no longer exist since it would be changed thousands of times (the bible was given around 1400BC). A real Jew believes that the Bible is unchangable and is the word of G-d. Just because the majority of people think a certain way does not mean that it is correct. Only the word of G-d through Moses is true. What drives us jews forward is that we love G-d so we long to emulate him and follow in his footsteps (what motivates many of you guys is whatever gives you short term pleasure). That's why we observe the bible.
 
yanky5 said:
Homosexuality is an abomination not only for Jews, but for non Jews also since it also violates the 7 commandments to the sons of Noah which all NON Jews must obey to go to heaven. Also, the Bible clearly calls it an abomination which is very severe. Eating shellfish is a sin for Jews, but is permitted for non Jews.
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So much bull****.
Why all this hatred.

Yea, some people are GAY. Live with it. And RESPECT them the same way you would like to be respected.

Damn, this is so simple, I don't understand why people don't get it.
 
As a gay man - I don't mind the Jewish lifestyle as long as they keep it to themselves and dont throw it in my face. My holy book (Details magazine) tells me that being Jewish is an abomination - and because I am in the majority here in SF, clearly my holy book takes precedence, and therefore I can pass laws opressing the Jewish minority here. Of course, out of benevolence, I will show how "accepting" and "tolerant" I am, but I know that deep down inside the Jewish lifestyle is wrong.

I have a study from the Institute of Flawed Studies suggesting that with conversion therapy, Jewish people can be dejewishified and become gay if they work REALLY REALLY hard, and because I am gay, I of course know that all Jews should go through this therapy because we all know that being the exact same is what we should strive for.

Being Jewish is also a genetic dead-end because all offspring from this lifestyle will end up being Jewish, and therefore unworthy of anything.

(grrr.. isn't it funny to read the arguments that are somehow OK when applied to gay people applied to other groups?)
 
In light of the above comments by yanky5, I thought I would try to address possible concerns about religion at Einstein for people thinking about coming here. True, it is "affiliated" with Yeshiva University. True, we get Jewish holidays off in the preclinical years (and if you are an observant Jewish person, you may request holy days off in the clinical years with approval before the start of the rotation). That's about the extent to which the religious affiliation has affected my experience here.

Although I have been exposed to some of the teachings yanky5 mentions, please realize these are not at all the opinions of the huge majority of the Jewish students here. While I could see a couple of the most observant orthodox people in my class supporting some of these arguments, these people are in the distinct minority. My classmates are, for the most part, an extremely intelligent, accepting, and caring group of people. Please don't let this post (written by a non-Einstein student) influence your thoughts about our medical school.
 
Flopotomist said:
As a gay man - I don't mind the Jewish lifestyle as long as they keep it to themselves and dont throw it in my face. My holy book (Details magazine) tells me that being Jewish is an abomination - and because I am in the majority here in SF, clearly my holy book takes precedence, and therefore I can pass laws opressing the Jewish minority here. Of course, out of benevolence, I will show how "accepting" and "tolerant" I am, but I know that deep down inside the Jewish lifestyle is wrong.

I have a study from the Institute of Flawed Studies suggesting that with conversion therapy, Jewish people can be dejewishified and become gay if they work REALLY REALLY hard, and because I am gay, I of course know that all Jews should go through this therapy because we all know that being the exact same is what we should strive for.

Being Jewish is also a genetic dead-end because all offspring from this lifestyle will end up being Jewish, and therefore unworthy of anything.

(grrr.. isn't it funny to read the arguments that are somehow OK when applied to gay people applied to other groups?)
Click to expand...

That's awesome. I can't decide if my favorite part is your holy book or the Institute of Flawed Studies.

:laugh:
 
considering the tumultous past of the jewish people, it is not in their best interest to insult any group of people, especially arabs, but in this case gays also. i would argue that there is just as much anti-jewish sentiment in the world as there is anti-gay. being neither jewish nor gay, this is based on my objective observations.
-mota
 
drmota said:
considering the tumultous past of the jewish people, it is not in their best interest to insult any group of people, especially arabs, but in this case gays also. i would argue that there is just as much anti-jewish sentiment in the world as there is anti-gay. being neither jewish nor gay, this is based on my objective observations.
-mota
Click to expand...
But most importantly, you're screwed if you're jewish AND gay. Or try being black, jewish, homosexual, AND female!
 
happydays said:
But most importantly, you're screwed if you're jewish AND gay. Or try being black, jewish, homosexual, AND female!
Click to expand...

hence my "any black jewish gay midget premeds" thread (that quickly got moved to the lounge).
-mota
 
happydays said:
But most importantly, you're screwed if you're jewish AND gay. Or try being black, jewish, homosexual, AND female!
Click to expand...

Well, if you're jewish and gay, you have a problem. I don't get the black and female remark though. Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are many black Jews, especially in Israel. According to many authorities, Moses' wife was black.
 
yanky5 said:
Well, if you're jewish and gay, you have a problem. I don't get the black and female remark though. Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are many black Jews, especially in Israel. According to many authorities, Moses' wife was black.
Click to expand...
That would be a person who has all the historically discriminated-against qualities. (so if you're a homosexual, black, jewish woman, you'll have the toughest time fitting in.) I didn't try to imply that Judaism is a race.
 
yanky5 said:
Those people who say "I am jewish and I don't think being gay is bad" are in fact not really jewish. A real Jew believes that the Bible is the word of G-d and proudly follows the Bible to its entirety. Any jew who thinks that the Bible must be dropped whenever it is conflict with modern society is in fact not a real observant Jew. Most of these so called "Jews" have no respect for their religion and end up marrying cathlics so that their children are not even Jewish. Every 20 years, the view of society changes in such a way that the mindset in the 1970's is not the same mind set as today. If the bible would be changed every 20 years to accomodate modern society's views, then it would no longer exist since it would be changed thousands of times (the bible was given around 1400BC). A real Jew believes that the Bible is unchangable and is the word of G-d. Just because the majority of people think a certain way does not mean that it is correct. Only the word of G-d through Moses is true. What drives us jews forward is that we love G-d so we long to emulate him and follow in his footsteps (what motivates many of you guys is whatever gives you short term pleasure). That's why we observe the bible.
Click to expand...
Actually, a Jew is a Jew is a Jew. If your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish. Many people actually believe you are always Jewish, even if you choose to not practice or you convert to another religion. This refers to a Jew having a "Jewish soul", something that is innate in you and cannot be changed (at least according to traditional belief). So just because a Jew chooses to do some free-thinking and adapt his/her religion to what he/she believes regarding God, that does not make them less "Jewish." Perhaps less orthodox or less fundamental, but certainly not "less Jewish."

I'm not at all criticizing you for being Orthodox so please don't take it that way, but don't tell someone their religion is less significant because they choose to develop new beliefs when they feel something in their heart.

And just to clarify, many Jews believe that homosexuality is something people are born with. They might not agree with the lifestyle and/or they think homosexual relations should be resisted, but they believe that God has just as much love for them as He does for heterosexual people. This is straight from the Orthodox Rabbi I know, so go to him if you disagree.
 
yanky5 said:
Well, if you're jewish and gay, you have a problem. I don't get the black and female remark though. Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are many black Jews, especially in Israel. According to many authorities, Moses' wife was black.
Click to expand...


You have issues......enough said.
 
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