Justification to admit URMs

soy sauce · Aug 27, 2006

This lecture explains why it is in the State of California's best interest to admit URMs. There is no arguing with the facts it presents. The only question I see is in quantifying how many URM students should be admitted.

Please peruse this lecture before commenting.

http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/TheodoreHall.asp

Also, there are detailed admission statistics for UCLA.

nekrogg · Aug 27, 2006

soy sauce said:
This lecture explains why it is in the State of California's best interest to admit URMs. There is no arguing with the facts it presents. The only question I see is in quantifying how many URM students should be admitted.

Please peruse this lecture before commenting.

http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/TheodoreHall.asp

doesnt really tell me anything.. just a bunch of statistics?

zbruinz · Aug 27, 2006

interesting info. Do you know whether other medical schools share the same type of info regarding how many undergrads from each school matriculated into the aforementioned medical schools?

For example 33 UCLA undergrads made up the class of 2008, and 12 UCB undergrads, etc... Thanks...🙂

zbruinz · Aug 27, 2006

so according to these statistics, biology majors tend to comprise the greatest number of spots while psychbio majors rarely ever get in to UCLA med? 😕

soy sauce · Aug 27, 2006

nekrogg said:
doesnt really tell me anything.. just a bunch of statistics?

No. It uses statistics to explain how URMs are more likely than others to improve certain aspects of public health in California.

tracy34 · Aug 27, 2006

zbruinz, I saw a list of majors accepted but where did you get the breakdown by percentage?
thanks
*Edit* sorry, I found it. This info is really useful thanks soy sauce

MonkeyNuts! · Aug 27, 2006

paging dr. cbennett

Zoom-Zoom · Aug 27, 2006

zbruinz said:
interesting info. Do you know whether other medical schools share the same type of info regarding how many undergrads from each school matriculated into the aforementioned medical schools?

For example 33 UCLA undergrads made up the class of 2008, and 12 UCB undergrads, etc... Thanks...🙂

Jeez...I really hope SC accepts the same number of their own students, cuz otherwise we're getting screwed by the UCs. Another reason to hate being from Cali. 😡

I found the "Unequal Treatment" section to be a weak argument. A lot of that evidence is circumstantial and could certainly be more of a sociological/economic issue than a racial one. Correlation is not causation! Apparently the author realized this, because the following "Beyond Income and Insurance" section was very compelling. The publication sited from slides 24 to 26 was also very good. Conclusion: While only 7 of the 39 slides make any sort of real argument, the argument was a strong one 👍

nekrogg · Aug 27, 2006

soy sauce said:
No. It uses statistics to explain how URMs are more likely than others to improve certain aspects of public health in California.

i was tricked! its two presentations in one!

very interesting stuff, much needed to might I add with all the debates going on and everything

tracy34 · Aug 27, 2006

I have a question~The slide in which the average GPAs/MCAT scores for the class of 2008 are listed and the slide in which the average GPAs/MCAT scores for disadvantaged matriculants are listed have data in parenthesis. Are the number in parenthesis national averages for the first slide and the class average for the second slide?
thanks

soy sauce · Aug 27, 2006

Zoom-Zoom said:
Jeez...I really hope SC accepts the same number of their own students, cuz otherwise we're getting screwed by the UCs. Another reason to hate being from Cali. 😡

I found the "Unequal Treatment" section to be a weak argument. A lot of that evidence is circumstantial and could certainly be more of a sociological/economic issue than a racial one. Correlation is not causation! Apparently the author realized this, because the following "Beyond Income and Insurance" section was very compelling. The publication sited from slides 24 to 26 was also very good. Conclusion: While only 7 of the 39 slides make any sort of real argument, the argument was a strong one 👍

I agree--no evidence is given that admitting URMs will improve racist practices in clinical settings. However, to improve health care in underserved areas, graduating more URMs seems to be the most effective solution.

MirrorTodd · Aug 27, 2006

I didn't look at the lecture but...

notdeadyet · Aug 27, 2006

Zoom-Zoom said:
Conclusion: While only 7 of the 39 slides make any sort of real argument, the argument was a strong one 👍

7 out of 39 good slides in any powerpoint slideshow is a pretty good ratio...

Zoom-Zoom · Aug 27, 2006

soy sauce said:
I agree--no evidence is given that admitting URMs will improve racist practices in clinical settings. However, to improve health care in underserved areas, graduating more URMs seems to be the most effective solution.

I think there is some evidence. Minority doctors were shown to work with minority populations. I didn't know there was any concrete evidence to support this, but it looks true. And, minority populations are indeed given worse care than their white counterparts even when adjusted for socio/economic factors...that's something else I didn't know. It seems pretty conclusive that more minority doctors are needed. I just don't like the 30 slides of filler and misinterpreted stats that seem to only perpetuate the deabte further. I guess there just needs to be more research on the topic.

But yeah, 25% good slides is a pretty good ratio considering some of the classes I've had :laugh:

Pinkertinkle · Aug 27, 2006

Isn't it still illegal cuz of prop 209?

LizzyM · Aug 27, 2006

zbruinz said:
so according to these statistics, biology majors tend to comprise the greatest number of spots while psychbio majors rarely ever get in to UCLA med? 😕

What you don't have is the denominator. How many psychbio majors applied? Without that number you don't know if psychbio majors are more or less likely to be admitted to medical school in comparison to bio majors.

dr_zippo · Aug 27, 2006

soy sauce said:
This lecture explains why it is in the State of California's best interest to admit URMs. There is no arguing with the facts it presents. The only question I see is in quantifying how many URM students should be admitted.

Please peruse this lecture before commenting.

http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/TheodoreHall.asp

Also, there are detailed admission statistics for UCLA.

Please excuse my ignorance on this matter, but didn't California outlaw AA with Proposition 209? Although the slideshow doesn't explicity support AA, it does seem to come precariously close.

Pinkertinkle · Aug 27, 2006

dr_zippo said:
Please excuse my ignorance on this matter, but didn't California outlaw AA with Proposition 209? Although the slideshow doesn't explicity support AA, it does seem to come precariously close.

Oh its the UC system's AA in disguise for sure. If UC want to count race as a factor for admissions then it should go campaign and get the law changed. What it's doing now is a blatant violation of state law and ILLEGAL.

zbruinz · Aug 27, 2006

LizzyM said:
What you don't have is the denominator. How many psychbio majors applied? Without that number you don't know if psychbio majors are more or less likely to be admitted to medical school in comparison to bio majors.

Since there are many premeds in psychobio, I assume that many applied to medical school, defninitely not as many as the regular bio people, but to see only 2 or 3 get in is rather discouraging. Makes me wonder whether one's major really does matter.

On another note, anyone find statistics like this for other medical schools?

baylormed · Aug 27, 2006

I promised I would stay away from these threads, but the curiosity is stronger once again...

I don't like the sound of the title....just poor choice of words.

That's my comment. I'm leaving. Keep the insults and rants to yourselves please. 😍

DoctaJay · Aug 27, 2006

I find this presentation to be very interesting. I may even present it at our premed club. I glad that it finally shows that minority doctors do practice and cater to minority populations. I found it interesting though (but not surprising) that there was data showing that blacks and hispanics received less quality of care at non-teaching hospitals. Overall, the second powerpoint presentation shows that on more than one level, minority applicants have some serious obstacles, and should be sought after to improve the quality of healthcare for all Americans.

Justification to admit URMs

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