Step 3 - crucial Qs

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Nagar

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As a FMG I have some important Qs :

1) Is Step 3 mandatory for felloship (as a foreign physician who comes only for felloship) ?
2) How much time does it take to be fully prepared for that exam?
3) Are the scores important for the purpose of finding a felloship (again- for a FMG) ?

Thanx

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As a FMG I have some important Qs :

1) Is Step 3 mandatory for felloship (as a foreign physician who comes only for felloship) ?
2) How much time does it take to be fully prepared for that exam?
3) Are the scores important for the purpose of finding a felloship (again- for a FMG) ?

Thanx

As an American orthopaedic surgeon (in-training) I have some important As:

1) Yes. You need at least a provisional medical licence to be a resident/fellow and you need Steps 1-3 for that.
1a) It's fellowship with a 'W' (like the President). You will want to know that for your CV.
2) If you paid attention in medical school, you need a week to study. It's a softball.
3) No.
 
Some additional Qs:

1) Is the step 3 included in the 7-years period (in which you have to take all steps)?
2) From what I know, step 3 is relevant only in the state where you take it. If that's correct, how can I know which state's exam to take ????
3) And again- are you certain step 3 is crucial for FMG after ortho residency outsides the US, who comes for fellowship only ?
 
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Some additional Qs:

1) Is the step 3 included in the 7-years period (in which you have to take all steps)?
2) From what I know, step 3 is relevant only in the state where you take it. If that's correct, how can I know which state's exam to take ????
3) And again- are you certain step 3 is crucial for FMG after ortho residency outsides the US, who comes for fellowship only ?


1) Since 'all steps' includes Step 3, it is included in the 7 years. 10 if you did MD/PhD. There are a few exceptions.

2) Which state are you going to? Come on--you should know at least THIS! Besides, it's the same exam (Hence the 'US' part of USMLE). The state board of medicine has to sponsor you for the exam. Different states have different training requirements for different doctors of different educational backgrounds before they will sponsor them. This is all avalible online and easy to find.

3) Yes. You can't put in an order or scrub in for a surgery without a medical licence.

You may be thinking of an observership, where basically you follow around a US MD for a while. Those don't require any exams, but you can't do anything either.

I am 100% positive of the things I said above, but don't believe me--look into it yourself.
 
I am sorry but you have a mistake - check this link : http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibfaq.html
(look for the requierments for ECFMG certification which is what you need to do a fellowship in the US after you finish a non-american residency)

Sorry for the trouble, and thanx for your patience
 
I am sorry but you have a mistake - check this link : http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibfaq.html
(look for the requierments for ECFMG certification which is what you need to do a fellowship in the US after you finish a non-american residency)

Sorry for the trouble, and thanx for your patience

Hopefully your medical-decision-making is better than your logic, which is terrible.

You need more than an ECFMG to do a fellowship.

1) ECFMG lets you be eligible for Steps 1 and 2CK/CS.
2) You need to pass Steps 1 and 2CK/CS to take Step 3 (http://www.usmle.org/bulletin/2005/eligibility.htm)
3) You need to have done ACGME accredited residency training to get a ACGME accredited fellowship.
3a) You probably didn't do this
4) If you don't do an ACGME-accredetied fellowship, you need an unrestricted US medical licence, thus you need Step 3
5) Some visas (H1b) require Step 3

The real issue is:
1) Why are you posting if you are going to argue with the responders?
2) Why don’t you just do a fellowship in your home country?
3) Why do you want to skip requirements that US MDs have to do? Do you want to be known as that guy?
4) Why am I even arguing with you? Even if you do come here (which you probably won't) I will never want to talk to you of have you anywhere near my patients or program.
 
I am sorry to upset you so much, but I still think you are wrong.

Anyway, you do have plenty of free time to write me such long replies, which means that you probably don't operate too much, which means that you probably don't have good hands. On the other hand, you do have a very big mouth and over-inflated self-esteem, which means that you should probably consider being a lawyer (maybe there you will be more successful and have less leisure time).
Good luck anyway and thanx for your answers (even if they are completely wrong)
 
I am sorry to upset you so much, but I still think you are wrong.

Anyway, you do have plenty of free time to write me such long replies, which means that you probably don't operate too much, which means that you probably don't have good hands. On the other hand, you do have a very big mouth and over-inflated self-esteem, which means that you should probably consider being a lawyer (maybe there you will be more successful and have less leisure time).
Good luck anyway and thanx for your answers (even if they are completely wrong)

At least I'm not in Malaysia, chump.
 
omg. this is a beautiful thread. to the op, facts are facts and they are not open to interpretation. to debridement, bravo.


tm
 
Thanks Debridement for the quality responses in this thread. I wasn't sure of some of these regulations myself.

As for Nagar... mate, you are a total ingrate and need to learn some manners (and some comprehension skills).
 
As for Nagar... mate, you are a total ingrate and need to learn some manners (and some comprehension skills).


I am sure English is not Nagar's primary language, so I would cut him some slack. Debridement's behavior was not appropriate either. This has turned into a pissing contest instead of a useful thread. :thumbdown:
 
Although I still think Debrid is over inflated, I'm beginning to realize that he might be right. As to my thinking abilities, they were never too strong (that's why I am suitable for being a carpenter -Don't be insulted guys, but brains is simply not our strong part).
Anyway, since I will probably have to take step 3, I wanted to ask the most important thing- once I pass steps 1-3, how long is my permission for fellowship/residency valid ? is it for life or only for a limited period ?

As to malasia - although Israel does seem to be a 3rd world country in many aspects, I still think that we have great doctors and great medicine (and a small detail that you probably didn't know - your leading hospitals (eg mount sinai) sends xray and CAT scans to Haddasah Jerusalem for consultations - so we probably aren't so primitive after all)

Hope for an answer
Nagar
 
People need to get along.... can we all just be friends :D

Nagar,

I just recently took my step 3 and allpied / received my full license. (so I been through the whole process) To answer your questions, as a FMG, who have graduated from a ortho residency program and want to do an US NON accreditted ortho fellowships for 1-2 yrs and then go back to their country to practice...... the limiting factor is getting the J-1 Visa. It is harder now than pre 9-11, and go to the following link to see the requirements,

http://www.ecfmg.org/evsp/j1fact.html

You need to take step 1 and 2, not step 3, and you don't need to take step 3 and you don't need a full license to do these non accredited fellowships. Now, it would be a different story if your intent is to stay in the US and practice. If you were a american med grad, a new rule just went to effect that you need to take your step 3 within the 1st 2 yrs post grad..... you do not need a full license to be in residency... A limited license is all you need. But when you apply out to fellowships, most of them require that you have a full license from the particular state. Applying for a full license is a pain in the butt, there is many documents needed to be signed and mailed back. You take Step1,2,3 in any state you want, but when you apply for a license, you apply for the particular state that you will be working. Different state have different requirements / documents.

Step 3 can only be taken after you pass step 1 + 2 and also with the permission of your program director at your residency program. Once you get a full license it is for life, you need to renew on your 1st birthday and then every 2 yrs after (each pop is $400) and the full license is $600 + other document fees ~ $800.

What I would suggest, is look up all the ortho fellowships that you are interested in, email the P.D., ask him what you need to do to be a part of the fellowship, because different programs can have different requirements. Also, if they like you (CV, interview, etc), you might be able to get a verbally promised spot.... before you go through all the steps.

As for preparation, All the steps are not easy, I would spend a significant time to parpare. Also you can go to www.orthogate.com to find some useful info.


Here is the direct quote
J-1 Visas
J-1 visas are designed for exchange visitors, persons interested in the exchange of knowledge and skills in education, arts and sciences. Because of the educational focus of the J-1 visa, many foreign medical graduates obtain these visas for the purpose of entering graduate medical education programs in the United States. The Education Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) is the entity authorized by the US Department of State to sponsor physicians on the J-1 visa to participate in accredited graduate medical education (GME) programs and is responsible for certifying foreign physicians' credentials. All foreign medical graduates who seek US graduate medical education positions must be certified by the ECFMG, which entails passage of Steps 1 and 2 of the US Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL), and the ECFMG Clinical Skills Assessment (CSA). The ECFMG issued 5,429 Standard ECFMG Certificates in 2002.

Individuals must also have a contract or official offer letter from an accredited GME program, and a statement from their home country that the country has a need for specialists in the area the individual seeks to receive training.

In 2002, the AAMC, American Medical Association (AMA), American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS), and other interested organizations reached a consensus about eligibility requirements for non-accredited subspecialty fellowship programs under the J-1 visa program. The two specific concerns were (1) sponsorship of J-1 exchange visitor physicians in clinical training programs not independently accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME), but directly associated with ACGME programs, and (2) sponsorship of J-1 physicians in clinical programs whose length exceeds that of the accredited length for the specialty. The ECFMG outlined the new policy in an Oct. 18 letter to the Department of State. Effective July 1, 2003, there would be three pathways for ECFMG J-1 visa sponsorship:

Programs accredited by ACGME;
Programs within a specialty or subspecialty where the appropriate Specialty Board of ABMs offers a certificate; and
Programs within a subspecialty "recognized" by an appropriate Board of ABMs as evidenced by a letter from the CEO of that Board. A number of additional requirements that would apply to this pathway were identified.
ECFMG sponsorship of J-1 physicians in clinical programs whose length exceeds the ACGME-accredited length will be limited to accredited length. However, the guidance notes that ACGME currently has a mechanism in place for specialties and subspecialties to seek an increase in their accredited length.

Currently, there is no set limit or cap on the total number of J-1 exchange visitor visas issued each year; however, J-1 visas do require that foreign physicians receiving graduate medical education return to their home countries following completion of their residency training program for at least two years before they are permitted to apply for reentry into the United States. J-1 visitors are also ineligible to apply for permanent residency.

J-1 visitors may apply for a waiver of the two-year foreign residence requirement under any one of the following circumstances:

The exchange visitor can demonstrate that his or her departure from the United States would cause extreme hardship to his or her United States citizen or lawful permanent resident spouse or child;
The exchange visitor believes that he or she will be persecuted upon return to the home country due to race, religion, or political opinion;
The exchange visitor is working on a project for, or of interest to, a US federal government agency, and that agency has determined that the visitor's continued stay in the United States is vital to one of its programs;
The exchange visitor's government must state that it has no objection the waiver and the exchange visitor remaining in the US if he or she chooses to do so. (The law precludes use of this option by medical doctors who acquired J-1 status for the purpose of receiving graduate medical education or training); or
The exchange visitor is foreign medical graduate who has an offer of full-time employment at a health care facility in a designated health care professional shortage area.
Waivers may be obtained through a request made on the exchange visitor's behalf by an Interested Government Agency (IGA). Numerous federal agencies may seek waivers as IGAs, including the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Appalachian Regional Commission. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) administers the largest J-1 visa waiver program. Under this program, HHS permits institutions and health care facilities to submit requests for physician exchange visitors to perform research and deliver primary health care services (defined as general internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, obstetrics/gynecology and general psychiatry) in federally designated Health Professional Shortage Areas (HPSAs) or Medically Underserved Areas or Populations (MUA/Ps).

Additionally, under the "Conrad 30" program each state may sponsor waivers for up to 30 J-1 visa holders, who completed medical residencies in the US, in return for a promise to practice medicine for three years in a geographic area designated by the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) as having a shortage of health care professionals. Physicians who are sponsored for a waiver by either a federal or state agency will be exempt from the H-1B cap should they choose to convert their visa status. Additionally, under a pilot program established in 2004 (PL 108-441), five of the states' thirty requests may be specialists who can practice medicine outside of Health and Human Services designated health shortage areas. The current program is authorized through June 1, 2006.

http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/workforce/work0004.htm


Hope this helps.

You still need big cerebrum to be a carpenter! :D
 
Although I still think Debrid is over inflated, I'm beginning to realize that he might be right. As to my thinking abilities, they were never too strong (that's why I am suitable for being a carpenter -Don't be insulted guys, but brains is simply not our strong part).
Anyway, since I will probably have to take step 3, I wanted to ask the most important thing- once I pass steps 1-3, how long is my permission for fellowship/residency valid ? is it for life or only for a limited period ?

As to malasia - although Israel does seem to be a 3rd world country in many aspects, I still think that we have great doctors and great medicine (and a small detail that you probably didn't know - your leading hospitals (eg mount sinai) sends xray and CAT scans to Haddasah Jerusalem for consultations - so we probably aren't so primitive after all)

Hope for an answer
Nagar

Nagar,

So this is your definition of over-inflated:

1) Politely answering all of your questions
2) Doing #1 when some of them were easy to look up online
a. P.S. If you come to the states, get ready to get ridden for asking questions that are easy to look up
3) Doing #1 again after a 2nd post
4) Offering information that you may not have thought of (observership)
5) Being irritated when you argued with me after #1-4
a. P.S. If you come to the states, don't argue with an attending—that may be OK in Tel Aviv, but it doesn't fly here.
6) Still offering useful information after #5
7) Tolerating your insults after #1-6
8) Calling you out (Malaysia chump comment)

Just checking to see if we are on the same page,

D-bag

P.S. If you come to the states, get ready to meet a thousand orthopods just like me, so get used to it.
P.S.S. Writer is not implying that he is an attending.
 

what's the difference between an accreditted and a non-accreditted fellow[ship ?
nagar
 
an accredited fellowship has been given the aok by the ACGME. an unaccredited fellowship has not.

btw...AWESOME thread
 
an accredited fellowship has been given the aok by the ACGME. an unaccredited fellowship has not.

btw...AWESOME thread

Check the dates. :D

This was the nicest set of responses by Debridement I've ever run across. He must have had a really good week back then . . .
 
Check the dates. :D

This was the nicest set of responses by Debridement I've ever run across. He must have had a really good week back then . . .

I am a sweetheart. Always.
 
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