Leaving PhD for MD/PhD

I'm currently enrolled in a neuroscience PhD program and expect to receive my masters at the end of the year. I would really like to pursue MSTP training and I'm wondering if the MA degree will be a significant asset or if leaving my current program before I receive my PhD will be disadvantageous. I expect my advisor to be supportive so recommendations are not a concern.

amneuro said:

I'm currently enrolled in a neuroscience PhD program and expect to receive my masters at the end of the year. I would really like to pursue MSTP training and I'm wondering if the MA degree will be a significant asset or if leaving my current program before I receive my PhD will be disadvantageous. I expect my advisor to be supportive so recommendations are not a concern.

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It depends how it is presented. If you present that you did the master's so as to build up research experience for an MD/PhD application, that's fine, but the degree in and of itself will not particularly help you - it's just the experience, the recommendations, and to a lesser degree publications (if any), that count.

If, however, you initially intended a PhD and that becomes clear to the AdCom, I would say it is disadvantageous, since it means 1.) you are withdrawing for the assumed financial benefits of not doing the PhD and then an MD or 2.) you were having difficulties in graduate school.

So, if you make it clear that a terminal master's was always your intent, then you should be fine.

amneuro said:

I'm currently enrolled in a neuroscience PhD program and expect to receive my masters at the end of the year. I would really like to pursue MSTP training and I'm wondering if the MA degree will be a significant asset or if leaving my current program before I receive my PhD will be disadvantageous. I expect my advisor to be supportive so recommendations are not a concern.

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Have you discussed this with your advisor yet? Don't assume anything until you talk to him/her. I basically agree with mercapto; as long as you and your advisor can agree to de-emphasize the fact that you left a PhD program early with a MA, you'll probably be able to spin it ok. One other thing you might consider though is whether it is worth changing horses in mistream, so to speak. I say this because you probably have 2-3 years left tops to finish your PhD at this point, right? If you now go to an MSTP, you are probably going to have to begin your research all over again, and it may delay your graduation by a year or two compared to if you finish the PhD and then do a straight MD. I don't know where you're at in your schooling or whether you even care about this possibility, but I just thought I'd throw it out there for you to think about.

QofQuimica said:

Have you discussed this with your advisor yet? Don't assume anything until you talk to him/her. I basically agree with mercapto; as long as you and your advisor can agree to de-emphasize the fact that you left a PhD program early with a MA, you'll probably be able to spin it ok. One other thing you might consider though is whether it is worth changing horses in mistream, so to speak. I say this because you probably have 2-3 years left tops to finish your PhD at this point, right? If you now go to an MSTP, you are probably going to have to begin your research all over again, and it may delay your graduation by a year or two compared to if you finish the PhD and then do a straight MD. I don't know where you're at in your schooling or whether you even care about this possibility, but I just thought I'd throw it out there for you to think about.

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Is there any chance of transferring into the MD/PhD program? That would be easiest and (sort of) avoid starting over with research. There are some programs that will let you do this. I would try to talk to the MSTP director at your school. I actually feel that SDN is a little too negative on this front. Yes, historically, very few people have done this relative to the number who seem to want to. However, many of the failures can be explained by one or both of two factors 1) Not having the grades and test scores (particularly grades, since PhD bound undergrads tend to prioritize research), 2) Being too far along in the PhD to be able to make it a combined program.

I once spoke to an MSTP director at a school that, according to SDN, discouraged PhD to MSTP transfers. He said there was no institutional policy against this. In fact, they would get the same extra attention as an MD to MSTP applicant. But most are disqualified by one or both of the factors I mentioned.

beetlerum said:

I once spoke to an MSTP director at a school that, according to SDN, discouraged PhD to MSTP transfers. He said there was no institutional policy against this. In fact, they would get the same extra attention as an MD to MSTP applicant. But most are disqualified by one or both of the factors I mentioned.

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Where was this? I'd like to give better advice on this as it is a frequently asked question. It is very school dependent, but having more info on which schools are more amenable would be helpful.

Neuronix said:

Where was this? I'd like to give better advice on this as it is a frequently asked question. It is very school dependent, but having more info on which schools are more amenable would be helpful.

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Actually, it was Penn.

Yeah I almost figured you were going to say that. The switch from PhD to MD/PhD just started happening around here recently, and I wonder if there was a switch in thinking about it at the top. Either it came about with Skip becoming the director or just in the past few years since then. Or maybe I was just totally off base. Maybe I'll ask em one of these days. Oh well, this is why it's always best to just go talk to your MD/PhD administrators.

I talked to quite a number of folks at different universities (including Penn) about the PhD to MSTP switch and they all told me they didnt frown on it - just get your MCATs up to par, they said.
Dartmouth seemed to be the most okay about this.
2 cents.

How is transferring into the MD/PhD program different than applying normally? Have you ever heard of a student completing the PhD aspects at another neighboring university while collaborating with the primary school? Are undergraduate grades considered more important than graduate grades? I'm sorry for all the questions, however I'd like to get a grip on the process. Thanks for your time!

How is transferring into the MD/PhD program different than applying normally? Have you ever heard of a student completing the PhD aspects at another neighboring university while collaborating with the primary school? Are undergraduate grades considered more important than graduate grades? I'm sorry for all the questions, however I'd like to get a grip on the process. Thanks for your time!

amneuro said:

How is transferring into the MD/PhD program different than applying normally? Have you ever heard of a student completing the PhD aspects at another neighboring university while collaborating with the primary school? Are undergraduate grades considered more important than graduate grades? I'm sorry for all the questions, however I'd like to get a grip on the process. Thanks for your time!

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Transferring from PhD to MD/PhD appears to be a rare event, but as others have stated, it will be dependent on the school. Regardless, most MSTPs require you to be admitted into the MD program first, therefore undergraduate grades tend to be more important (vs. graduate grades), as well as MCAT score. Pretty much you're in the same boat just like every other undergrad, and whatever else that applies to med school. Really, its probably more competative than that, since MSTP applicants should have an undergrad GPA of around 3.6-3.7, and MCAT scores of 34+. Thats the going overage at UCSF.

Really though, based on your situation, you will have 1-2 years just sitting around. You will be applying no earlier than June 2007 for admission for Fall 2008. So why not finish your PhD? I am personally going to try to transfer into our MSTP, but not going to lose any sleep if they reject me, since right now, the most important thing is to complete my PhD!

IMO, I'm not quite sure about leaving your current PhD program to pursue a MSTP unless its in the same school. You are already getting a PhD. Really, leaving a PhD without any degree is probably the worst thing you can do especially considering that you want to apply to an MSTP. Having an MA degree will be viewed in a positive way, but there isn't much advantage to that either. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who have various graduate degrees and professional degrees when applying to med school. See the non-trad forums. We're all in the same boat here😉. Good luck!

Neuronix said:

Where was this? I'd like to give better advice on this as it is a frequently asked question. It is very school dependent, but having more info on which schools are more amenable would be helpful.

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I was told that this was virtually impossible as well - I left a PhD program and am now in an entirely different MD program (at a different location). Still plugging away at my PhD though through the past 2 summers and this year I will end up finishing up it through 4th year electives. Sometimes you just have to be creative to get what you want.

I transferred from PhD to MSTP after my first year of PhD work. I then did my first two years of med school, and returned to graduate school a year and a half ago. I finished my PhD last month and am now back in clinical rotations. It actually worked out better for me because I was able to keep working on my dissertation during the first two years of med school. Although it's uncommon (only one other student that I know about at my school transferred from PhD to MD/PhD) it can end up saving you time in the long run if you can use MD time to work on your research. It depends on what you want, but I'd think seriously about transferring into the MSTP at your school.