The Way it is Part 2

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KHE

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Most people entering optometry school have dreams of one day working in or owning a large Guggenheim type optometric practice stuffed full of designer merchandise, fancy instrumentation, and a waiting room full of patients eagerly awaiting you to diagnose their cool ocular pathology. Is this possible? Yes. Is it difficult? Sadly, Yes.

Most people also envision a scenario in which they graduate, join a practice with an “old guy” and slowly work there more as you grow and build the practice. Slowly over time, you buy in as the old guy fades away or perhaps s/he stays on and the two of you become partners. My experience, and that of a number of my collegues has been that this almost never works…for a number of reasons.

The hardest part of that is finding an older doctor who wants the same thing as you do. Many times an older doctor will take on a young one and SAY they want a partner but what they really want is an associate doctor. The key to making something like that work is to spell out IN WRITING at the start the terms and conditions under which you will be given the right to buy in or buy the practice outright.

Many older doctors want to do this on a “handshake” type of arrangement. “Come work for me for a couple of years, and if it works out, you can buy in” they say. That sounds great in theory, and many unsuspecting young doctors jump at the chance, thinking that they will have the opportunity to buy into a great practice. Unfortunately, what happens more often than not is the new doctor starts working, takes over the undesirable hours, grows the practice and then in a couple of years when they want to buy in, the older doctor says “I’m not ready yet.” In my experience, that means that the doctors WIFE isn’t ready yet. What ends up happening is one of two things….the young doctor grows the office and now the seller wants MORE for the practice because its worth more and now the younger doctor is essentially spending a big chunk of money “buying themselves” or more often than not, the older doctor starts to make some really decent money off of the back of the young one and now there is less and less incentive for them to deal you in.

Most older doctors are (understandably) not willing to just sell out or partner with a new doctor. However, if they are SERIOUS about wanting a partner or a buyer for a practice, they should at the very least be willing to specify the terms under which they would allow the young doctor to buy in. For example….”Young Doctor X will be allowed to buy in to the practice when their productions meets Y dollars or Z percentage of the practice income.”

But even worse than this…is the issue of medical insurance accessibility. I have harped on this issue ad nauseum for years on this and other forums and it can not be stressed enough that it is THIS issue that is going to make or break the vast majority of you…allow me to explain…..

Even though there is a big number of people in the USA who don’t have health insurance, and it’s a problem…the fact is that the vast majority of patients do have medical insurance of some type. Some of these patients may also have corresponding dental or VISION riders which covers services related to dental or vision care that are not normally covered by medical insurance. Many of you out there may be covered by these supplemental dental or vision plans. In the vision arena, there are many of these types of plans such as VSP, Davis Vision, Eyemed, Spectera and a host of others.

If a patient presents to your office and needs care that is NOT of a routine nature, such as needing to be worked up for glaucoma, or diabetes, or for visual symptoms not related to refractive error, that visit and the testing that goes along with it needs to be submitted to their MEDICAL insurance carrier for reimbursement. The routine plans pay for a yearly, or bi-yearly “visit” but they don’t cover any of the supplemental treatments or follow up care a patient may need outside of a routine “well eye” visit.

However, in many parts of the country, optometrists are NOT ABLE to participate in many medical plans. Some plans exclude all non-physician providers, some exclude just optometry. Yes folks, it’s legal, and yes it happens all over the place.

So if a patient with any sort of “medical” issue presents to your office, you can not treat them. You have to refer them out to a physician provider. (I should say, you CAN treat them, but you wont get paid for it) This is a DEATH SENTENCE for most private practices because when you see these patients and refer them out, it sends the patient the message that if you have ANYTHING wrong with your eye other than a need for glasses or contact lenses, then yours is not the office to go to. And where does this leave you? It leaves you essentially providing routine care to routine healthy patients and competing against commercial opticals for eyeglass and contact lens sales. There isn’t anything wrong with that per se, but it essentially leaves you as an eyeglass merchant. If you want to be an eyeglass merchant, there is no reason to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on 8-9 years of post secondary education. Just take a basic opticianry course at your local community college at open your eyeglass store.

So between this horrible medical insurance situation, and a lack of decent opportunities to enter private practice, what is a new graduate or young doctor to do?

Well…the best advice I can offer you is the following:

If you have a particular city, state or area of the country that you want to practice in, then it is absolutely imperative that you find out if you can access medical plans in that area before you give any school of optometry one plug nickel. How do you do this? You can phone up a number of optometrists in the area and ask them if they are able to access plans….you can find out what the top 5 plans in that area are (usually through the state insurance commissioners office) and phone them up and ask if they are credentialing NEW optometrists onto their panel. If more than one of them says no, you may want to find another area to practice in or prepare yourself for a career filled with routine exams and selling glasses.

Finding the right practice to buy or join is incredibly difficult. Like I said before, most practices for sale are really little more than tired old optical shops with exam lanes in the back. Some of them are diamonds in the rough and can be “fixed up” but most new graduates or young doctors don’t have the experience to tell which is which. Partnership opportunities are incredibly hard because the needs and desires of the young doctor are usually not coincident with those of the old.

I am incredibly lucky because I stumbled into a perfect situation. I now own a great office, in a great town, with a great partner, and I make big money but I struggled for YEARS to find it, and it even then, it just sort of fell into my lap. So I’m pretty much the luckiest SOB as far as that goes.

The best suggestion I can give to young doctors is to do one of two things:

1) Find an area in which you can open cold. I think I spent far too much time dealing with small time thinkers and their told old optical shops. In my experience, the number of providers or commercial entities in an area matters little. The key is access to medical plans (see above) In fact, in some cases MORE competition can be better because if there are 5 dogs in a town, and you’re the shining star, you’ll really excel. It will be as if none of those dogs are even around.

2) Find an office in which the old doctor wants to just flat out sell and be gone. The way that I did this was to look up the roster of licensees in my state, find all the guys who had been licensed for more than 30 years, cross referenced it with a list of towns I wanted to join and just starting calling people and asking them if they were thinking of selling. I finally got a hit.

So to reiterate, it is possible. I make huge money, working in a nice office, taking care of my patients to the extent my license allows. But it’s difficult to find an acceptable situation. You need to have a SPECIFIC plan of action long before you even think of entering school to be successful in this field….
 
Sage advise KHE. It is nice to hear you are back in the game in a great situation. I was very lucky in that I found a similar situation my first try out of school...so it can happen, but a plan of action such as the scenarios you laid out above is an absolute MUST.
Posner
 
congrats on getting back in it, now you should run for AOA positions to change our profession!!!

you are an inspiration to the rest of us that there is a future in optometry and yes we can make it!

again, its awesome to hear you are back in optometry and loving it! 👍
 
Thanks for the advice and encouragement!
 
congrats on getting back in it, now you should run for AOA positions to change our profession!!!

you are an inspiration to the rest of us that there is a future in optometry and yes we can make it!

again, its awesome to hear you are back in optometry and loving it! 👍

Thank you for your kind words but I don't consider myself to be an inspiration to anyone. In fact....if anything my experiences should serve as a warning, or at the very least a caution for students and potential students so that you might avoid some of the mistakes that I made.

Disavow yourselves of the notion that as long as you "work hard" you'll be fine. Hard work is important...no doubt of that but its more complicated than that. Hard work will help you earn that A in organic chemistry, or get that wall painted on time. But its not going to help you overcome the insurmountable obstacles that can derail your career, or at the very least your satisfaction with your career.

I don't want to get overly negative because I know lots of collegues that love optometry so much that to them it's like a drug.

But I KNOW what you are all thinking....I thought it too....and unfortunately, far too much of it is inaccurate. Optometry can be wonderful....but you gotta know what you're getting into, what your goals are SPECIFICALLY, and what your strategy to get there is going to be.
 
I liked this post better than the part I post.

I think part I was too inflammatory, whereas this one was less biased (well, sort of). This one didn't seem to feel as if you had a chip on your shoulder. Anyway, thanks for the good post. It made sense, which is rare around these parts! 🙂
 
I liked this post better than the part I post.

I think part I was too inflammatory, whereas this one was less biased (well, sort of). This one didn't seem to feel as if you had a chip on your shoulder. Anyway, thanks for the good post. It made sense, which is rare around these parts! 🙂

In no way was that posting meant to be inflammatory nor do I have any sort of chip on my shoulder.

Was there a particluar part of it that you have issues with?
 
Most people entering optometry school have dreams of one day working in or owning a large Guggenheim type optometric practice stuffed full of designer merchandise, fancy instrumentation, and a waiting room full of patients eagerly awaiting you to diagnose their cool ocular pathology. Is this possible? Yes. Is it difficult? Sadly, Yes.

Most people also envision a scenario in which they graduate, join a practice with an “old guy” and slowly work there more as you grow and build the practice. Slowly over time, you buy in as the old guy fades away or perhaps s/he stays on and the two of you become partners. My experience, and that of a number of my collegues has been that this almost never works…for a number of reasons.

The hardest part of that is finding an older doctor who wants the same thing as you do. Many times an older doctor will take on a young one and SAY they want a partner but what they really want is an associate doctor. The key to making something like that work is to spell out IN WRITING at the start the terms and conditions under which you will be given the right to buy in or buy the practice outright.

Many older doctors want to do this on a “handshake” type of arrangement. “Come work for me for a couple of years, and if it works out, you can buy in” they say. That sounds great in theory, and many unsuspecting young doctors jump at the chance, thinking that they will have the opportunity to buy into a great practice. Unfortunately, what happens more often than not is the new doctor starts working, takes over the undesirable hours, grows the practice and then in a couple of years when they want to buy in, the older doctor says “I’m not ready yet.” In my experience, that means that the doctors WIFE isn’t ready yet. What ends up happening is one of two things….the young doctor grows the office and now the seller wants MORE for the practice because its worth more and now the younger doctor is essentially spending a big chunk of money “buying themselves” or more often than not, the older doctor starts to make some really decent money off of the back of the young one and now there is less and less incentive for them to deal you in.

Most older doctors are (understandably) not willing to just sell out or partner with a new doctor. However, if they are SERIOUS about wanting a partner or a buyer for a practice, they should at the very least be willing to specify the terms under which they would allow the young doctor to buy in. For example….”Young Doctor X will be allowed to buy in to the practice when their productions meets Y dollars or Z percentage of the practice income.”

But even worse than this…is the issue of medical insurance accessibility. I have harped on this issue ad nauseum for years on this and other forums and it can not be stressed enough that it is THIS issue that is going to make or break the vast majority of you…allow me to explain…..

Even though there is a big number of people in the USA who don’t have health insurance, and it’s a problem…the fact is that the vast majority of patients do have medical insurance of some type. Some of these patients may also have corresponding dental or VISION riders which covers services related to dental or vision care that are not normally covered by medical insurance. Many of you out there may be covered by these supplemental dental or vision plans. In the vision arena, there are many of these types of plans such as VSP, Davis Vision, Eyemed, Spectera and a host of others.

If a patient presents to your office and needs care that is NOT of a routine nature, such as needing to be worked up for glaucoma, or diabetes, or for visual symptoms not related to refractive error, that visit and the testing that goes along with it needs to be submitted to their MEDICAL insurance carrier for reimbursement. The routine plans pay for a yearly, or bi-yearly “visit” but they don’t cover any of the supplemental treatments or follow up care a patient may need outside of a routine “well eye” visit.

However, in many parts of the country, optometrists are NOT ABLE to participate in many medical plans. Some plans exclude all non-physician providers, some exclude just optometry. Yes folks, it’s legal, and yes it happens all over the place.

So if a patient with any sort of “medical” issue presents to your office, you can not treat them. You have to refer them out to a physician provider. (I should say, you CAN treat them, but you wont get paid for it) This is a DEATH SENTENCE for most private practices because when you see these patients and refer them out, it sends the patient the message that if you have ANYTHING wrong with your eye other than a need for glasses or contact lenses, then yours is not the office to go to. And where does this leave you? It leaves you essentially providing routine care to routine healthy patients and competing against commercial opticals for eyeglass and contact lens sales. There isn’t anything wrong with that per se, but it essentially leaves you as an eyeglass merchant. If you want to be an eyeglass merchant, there is no reason to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on 8-9 years of post secondary education. Just take a basic opticianry course at your local community college at open your eyeglass store.

So between this horrible medical insurance situation, and a lack of decent opportunities to enter private practice, what is a new graduate or young doctor to do?

Well…the best advice I can offer you is the following:

If you have a particular city, state or area of the country that you want to practice in, then it is absolutely imperative that you find out if you can access medical plans in that area before you give any school of optometry one plug nickel. How do you do this? You can phone up a number of optometrists in the area and ask them if they are able to access plans….you can find out what the top 5 plans in that area are (usually through the state insurance commissioners office) and phone them up and ask if they are credentialing NEW optometrists onto their panel. If more than one of them says no, you may want to find another area to practice in or prepare yourself for a career filled with routine exams and selling glasses.

Finding the right practice to buy or join is incredibly difficult. Like I said before, most practices for sale are really little more than tired old optical shops with exam lanes in the back. Some of them are diamonds in the rough and can be “fixed up” but most new graduates or young doctors don’t have the experience to tell which is which. Partnership opportunities are incredibly hard because the needs and desires of the young doctor are usually not coincident with those of the old.

I am incredibly lucky because I stumbled into a perfect situation. I now own a great office, in a great town, with a great partner, and I make big money but I struggled for YEARS to find it, and it even then, it just sort of fell into my lap. So I’m pretty much the luckiest SOB as far as that goes.

The best suggestion I can give to young doctors is to do one of two things:

1) Find an area in which you can open cold. I think I spent far too much time dealing with small time thinkers and their told old optical shops. In my experience, the number of providers or commercial entities in an area matters little. The key is access to medical plans (see above) In fact, in some cases MORE competition can be better because if there are 5 dogs in a town, and you’re the shining star, you’ll really excel. It will be as if none of those dogs are even around.

2) Find an office in which the old doctor wants to just flat out sell and be gone. The way that I did this was to look up the roster of licensees in my state, find all the guys who had been licensed for more than 30 years, cross referenced it with a list of towns I wanted to join and just starting calling people and asking them if they were thinking of selling. I finally got a hit.

So to reiterate, it is possible. I make huge money, working in a nice office, taking care of my patients to the extent my license allows. But it’s difficult to find an acceptable situation. You need to have a SPECIFIC plan of action long before you even think of entering school to be successful in this field….
Can you give us some idea as to what constitutes "big bucks"? thanks
 
The Way
by KHE
Sounds very Buddhaesk
you have been on some journey
thank you for sharing it with us
and stick around , you are a Mentor in the true sense of the word
 
Khe you are such a fantastic mentor, thank you again for posting on this forum.
 
So to reiterate, it is possible. I make huge money, working in a nice office, taking care of my patients to the extent my license allows. But it’s difficult to find an acceptable situation. You need to have a SPECIFIC plan of action long before you even think of entering school to be successful in this field….


When you say "long before you even think of entering school to be successful," would you please ellaborate on what exactly I should be doing right now as a Junior in Undergrad about to apply to Optometry school????

I understand that studying for the OAT would be something... but I have a feeling you are implying something far deeper.

Thanks for your time, your Thread has been such a great help so far! 👍
 
When you say "long before you even think of entering school to be successful," would you please ellaborate on what exactly I should be doing right now as a Junior in Undergrad about to apply to Optometry school????

I understand that studying for the OAT would be something... but I have a feeling you are implying something far deeper.

Thanks for your time, your Thread has been such a great help so far! 👍

You need to have a strong idea of whether you want to be an owner of a practice or not.

If the answer is not, then go to school anywhere, and work anywhere in whatever modality you choose.

If the answer is yes, then you need to have a good sense of WHERE you want to practice. Obviously, most people can't say for certain because family situations are constantly in flux but the majority of you out there I'm sure have a desire to return to your hometown, or move to New York City, or move to Florida, or move to the midwest or SOMETHING.

Once you have a rough idea of the areas you want to practice in, you need to find out if you can be admitted onto medical insurance plans. (see above postings.) If you can't....pick a different location to practice. If you can....the possibilities are very real.
 
yea THANKS KHE for your words of wisdom! 👍👍
 
KHE, thanks for starting this thread; it definitely will give many of us pre-opt students a reality check. Again, I think a lot of us who want to get into the profession b/c we are interested in vision care and eyes, but it's good to know that your job satisfaction also depends on the area you will be practicing in.

I have some questions after reading your post: Do you mean that in the same states, some areas will let you access medical insurance, and others won't? Or do you mean it depends on which state you practice in? Are there a lot of areas that will allow you to access medical insurance or is it pretty rare that you'd find somewhere like that? Lastly, how often do you bill medical insurance.

It certainly seems like a waste of 4 years of education if all optometrists are allow to do is refraction and selling glasses. Do you see this changing in the future? I think starting a thread on "the way it is" is a great idea, but I'm also curious about what the future hold for us and how we might be able to impact the future through our actions.
 
I have some questions after reading your post: Do you mean that in the same states, some areas will let you access medical insurance, and others won't? Or do you mean it depends on which state you practice in? Are there a lot of areas that will allow you to access medical insurance or is it pretty rare that you'd find somewhere like that? Lastly, how often do you bill medical insurance.

This has been discussed before and you can search the threads but it is NOT a state by state issue. It can vary even within a state. There are lots of areas that allow access, but sadly there are a lot of areas that don't, or make it so incredibly difficult to accomplish its not worth the aggrivation. As to how often I bill medical insurance, in my current practice I would say that about 70-80% of patients are billed medically.

It certainly seems like a waste of 4 years of education if all optometrists are allow to do is refraction and selling glasses.

Yes it does. It's a real drag when you get caught up that situation. The best anaolgy I can give is imagine being trained as a Formula 1 race car mechanic and then spending your life working at the local Jiffy Lube.

Do you see this changing in the future? I think starting a thread on "the way it is" is a great idea, but I'm also curious about what the future hold for us and how we might be able to impact the future through our actions.

I can not predict the future. Personally, I do not see this issue of insurance credentialling changing substantially until the "old guard" in optometry retires because in my opinion, most of the old guard is more interested in selling glasses and contact lenses and providing routine eye exams. Of course, this is not universal. There are plenty of veteran practitioners out there who can run circles around young ODs with respect to advanced training and clinical skill. But the important part is that the people in power at the state and national association level have to realize that this is the issue that is critical....not Walmart, not 1800 contacts, not board certification, not anything else but THIS. And right now, far too many of them do not see that.
 
KHE is right that the people running organized optometry in most states are goobers clinging to the old retail model of practice, to the huge detriment of the profession. It may take another 10-15 years for these dinosaurs to go extinct.

What these posts by Posner and KHE should hammer home to students is that you really need a lot of flexibility and have to do a LOT of research and leg-work (perhaps combined with some dumb luck) to put yourself in a situation where you can have a financially and professionally rewarding practice. It may mean moving to another state or away from a big city, and you have to be willing to do that. It may not be possible to live in New York City, Chicago, or San Francisco and practice and live the way you want. You have to make sure your spouse or significant other is able and willing to follow you to Albany, Springfield (D'oh!), or Barstow. If you can't do this, you should make sure that you can be happy working at Wal-Mart, Kaiser, or for another OD or MD (and forever making little more than what recent grads are being paid.) Seriously think about this before you spend 4 years and $$$$ to be an OD. That's reality for good or bad, and too many optometry students don't think about this at all until they've put in a huge investment of time and money and are left only with options they find unattractive.
 
It may mean moving to another state or away from a big city, and you have to be willing to do that. It may not be possible to live in New York City, Chicago, or San Francisco and practice and live the way you want. You have to make sure your spouse or significant other is able and willing to follow you to Albany, Springfield (D'oh!), or Barstow. If you can't do this, you should make sure that you can be happy working at Wal-Mart, Kaiser, or for another OD or MD (and forever making little more than what recent grads are being paid.) Seriously think about this before you spend 4 years and $$$$ to be an OD. That's reality for good or bad, and too many optometry students don't think about this at all until they've put in a huge investment of time and money and are left only with options they find unattractive.


Sadly, most pre optometry students or even people who are IN optometry school don't have the experience or the right frame of reference to even KNOW to ask. It's not even really their fault. That's why I keep hammering this issue. I know I sound like a broken record sometimes....but mark my words people....this is the big issue you need to think about. Not Lenscrafters, not Walmart, not Lasik, not ophthalmolgists, not 1800 contacts etc. etc.

Regarding your list...I would gladly do Albany or Springfield. But BARSTOW??? Ewwww man. NO way.👎 Nothing but meth labs.
 
Great points brought up by KHE. Structuring a buy-in can be very difficult. A young incoming OD may revitalize the practice and be responsible for its growth, yet his/her future in the practice may be tied to a "handshake" or a poorly written buy-in agreement. These buy-in arrangements can be based on a percentage of the practice revenues/income each year, so the new OD may actually end up paying extra for growing the business during the buy-in period. Even if the buy-in stipulates a pre-determined acquisition price, the subsequent performance of the business over the buy-in period can reflect whether the parties feel they got a fair deal or not. Buy-ins are tricky; outright acquisition is a better option in most cases, but not everyone can stomach that kind of risk. Bargain acqusition opportunities can be great alternatives to start-ups but good ones are hard to find.
 
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