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will i hurt to reveal ethnic identity? i
m working on the nyu statistical form and don't know what to do.
please help.
m working on the nyu statistical form and don't know what to do.
please help.
revealing ethnic identity
- Thread starter bruinkid
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Interestingly, quotas in med school admissions are unconstitutional.
Regents of the Univ. of Cal. v. Bakke, 438 U.S. 265 (1978) is the landmark case--the guy sued UC-Davis after they rejected him and a sharply divided Supreme Court ruled the quota admissions system Davis used violated his 14th amendment rights to Equal Protection.
http://www.bartleby.com/65/re/RegentsU.html
Obviously, nowadays affirmative action is implemented without official quotas, and the Court made sure to ensure the legality of taking race into account in med school admissions. I'd recommend getting a hold of the audio file of Thurgood Marshall's dissent in the case. It's quite moving.
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the angry mob brandishes its beating clubs as the dead horse is slowly carted out........
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There's no need to start beating this dead horse.
What I referred to in my response post ("Reveal it. If you are an URM it can only help.") doesn't refer to quotas, but scholarships for minority students who have their acts together. Baylor offers tuition waivers to all minority students. Duke and Washington University have 8 full scholarships for minorities. The University of Cincinatti will waive tuition for a minority student with 25 MCAT and 3.4 GPA. Miami University also has some tuition waiver programs for minority students. I have no doubt that there are more programs out there that I've overlooked.
I'm not claiming anything about the moral necessity (or outrage) of quotas or of targeted scholarships. I'm not claiming anything about whether the fact that these targeted scholarships exist actually says anything about the quality of their recipients. The only thing I'm doing is reporting on the facts. (BTW, this information comes from someone (not me) who works in the minority affairs office of a top 20 medical school.)
Cheers
-a.
What I referred to in my response post ("Reveal it. If you are an URM it can only help.") doesn't refer to quotas, but scholarships for minority students who have their acts together. Baylor offers tuition waivers to all minority students. Duke and Washington University have 8 full scholarships for minorities. The University of Cincinatti will waive tuition for a minority student with 25 MCAT and 3.4 GPA. Miami University also has some tuition waiver programs for minority students. I have no doubt that there are more programs out there that I've overlooked.
I'm not claiming anything about the moral necessity (or outrage) of quotas or of targeted scholarships. I'm not claiming anything about whether the fact that these targeted scholarships exist actually says anything about the quality of their recipients. The only thing I'm doing is reporting on the facts. (BTW, this information comes from someone (not me) who works in the minority affairs office of a top 20 medical school.)
Cheers
-a.
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they'll definitely discover from the pic you send in and your interview.
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Medical schools never discriminate on the basis of race.
URMs admitted under AA aren't less qualified then their fellow non-AA matriculants.
And AA is an anti-discriminatory measure that makes sure admissions committees do not show prejudice against URMs.
AA definitely is NOT a tool for social change that sacrifices and hurts non-URMs in order to put less qualified URMs in higher social-economic levels of society. It defiantly isn't a misguided effort to achieve racial equity in this country.
Medical School Admissions: Your personal canvas for social change
URMs admitted under AA aren't less qualified then their fellow non-AA matriculants.
And AA is an anti-discriminatory measure that makes sure admissions committees do not show prejudice against URMs.
AA definitely is NOT a tool for social change that sacrifices and hurts non-URMs in order to put less qualified URMs in higher social-economic levels of society. It defiantly isn't a misguided effort to achieve racial equity in this country.
Medical School Admissions: Your personal canvas for social change
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errr.. i'd have to disagree here. i don't want to start an affirmative action flame war, but some urms who get into med school are less qualified, academically anyway, than non-urms who got rejected. i am not opposed to affirmative action, but this is a fact, and we shouldn't try to pretend otherwise.
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true dat my bovine friend!
we neeeeedsss to keep it real.
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yah, dead horse!!! take that!!!!!
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If you are white or asian, then check the last box on the list that says you do not want to reveal.
If you are URM, then check the correct box.
Isn't that simple?
If you are URM, then check the correct box.
Isn't that simple?
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sigh.
you know whats funny - for whatever reason I cant post from work - so for like 12 hours (*hangs head in shame* - yes I am an addict) all I can do is watch all the stupid **** people say on this board and I'm powerless to flame away.
now, at home when I can actually say something... I feel like I'm on vacation with my girlfriend again - the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.
sigh.
you know whats funny - for whatever reason I cant post from work - so for like 12 hours (*hangs head in shame* - yes I am an addict) all I can do is watch all the stupid **** people say on this board and I'm powerless to flame away.
now, at home when I can actually say something... I feel like I'm on vacation with my girlfriend again - the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.
sigh.
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I think it is more than fair to admit URMs especially bc/ they probably make much better doctors than white doctors. By the way I am Indian (from India).
The reason I say this is bc/ I am sure most senior doctors agree that being the best student does not imply one will make a great doctor. My father and most of his friends are doctors and they have all told me most treatment is done adjunct with the body's natural healing mechanisms. Therefore, a doctor's primary role is to comfort and understand the patient and his or her suffering.
Most blacks, hispanics and native americans have undergone great suffering and pain. In contrast, I know most whites can not relate to true suffering (and I base this on socioeconomic realities).
I would rather be treated by a black women from the ghetto, who was a mediocre student bc/ she went to a poorly-funded urban school and had to work to pay for college, got into med school due to affirmative action, and when looking after me, really empathizes with my suffering; Rather than a white gunner, who was top of his prep school, dated the prom queen, got into Harvard, never worked a job bc/ he had to, and looks at me as another task he most overcome to climb to the top of his achievement mountain.
Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers but I think people need to look at the whole picture.
gowdah
The reason I say this is bc/ I am sure most senior doctors agree that being the best student does not imply one will make a great doctor. My father and most of his friends are doctors and they have all told me most treatment is done adjunct with the body's natural healing mechanisms. Therefore, a doctor's primary role is to comfort and understand the patient and his or her suffering.
Most blacks, hispanics and native americans have undergone great suffering and pain. In contrast, I know most whites can not relate to true suffering (and I base this on socioeconomic realities).
I would rather be treated by a black women from the ghetto, who was a mediocre student bc/ she went to a poorly-funded urban school and had to work to pay for college, got into med school due to affirmative action, and when looking after me, really empathizes with my suffering; Rather than a white gunner, who was top of his prep school, dated the prom queen, got into Harvard, never worked a job bc/ he had to, and looks at me as another task he most overcome to climb to the top of his achievement mountain.
Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers but I think people need to look at the whole picture.
gowdah
C
Chronotropic
I heard of a few asian students at my highschool who changed their last names so they would not be discriminated against when applying to college. According to them if the college knew they were asian then they would expect that they have 4.00 and outstanding ACTs.
Seems a bit extreme expecially since their claim has never been proven.
Seems a bit extreme expecially since their claim has never been proven.
C
Chronotropic
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If there truly was no affirmative action then only people accepted to med school would be indians, asians, and jews... so I dont see why whites should be complaining about URMs.
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riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
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LOL
We all need to stop beating the dead horse man. I mean whoever said life was fair.........
Why does AA allow an academically less qualified applicant into medical school? why does the good die young? Why are we here? What makes peanut butter and jelly go so well together? Why do people go to starbucks and pay $6 for a cup of coffee when they can get a Jar full of beans for $3 and can make coffee at home? What's the cause of my strange attraction to Joaquin pheonix? Will they make another Austin powers movie?
These are all questions without answers..........
And it frustrates me
We all need to stop beating the dead horse man. I mean whoever said life was fair.........
Why does AA allow an academically less qualified applicant into medical school? why does the good die young? Why are we here? What makes peanut butter and jelly go so well together? Why do people go to starbucks and pay $6 for a cup of coffee when they can get a Jar full of beans for $3 and can make coffee at home? What's the cause of my strange attraction to Joaquin pheonix? Will they make another Austin powers movie?
These are all questions without answers..........
And it frustrates me
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allright, you officially have the weirdest taste in men ever. First, Justin big fat sissy Timberlake. Then, the Dell toolasaurus rex. I guess it must be the cleft palate that turns you on for joaquin.
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Originally posted by DW
allright, you officially have the weirdest taste in men ever. First, Justin big fat sissy Timberlake. Then, the Dell toolasaurus rex. I guess it must be the cleft palate that turns you on for joaquin.
I think this thread is getting more and more interesting...Go on, continue...Muhahahaha!
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Originally posted by DW
allright, you officially have the weirdest taste in men ever. First, Justin big fat sissy Timberlake. Then, the Dell toolasaurus rex. I guess it must be the cleft palate that turns you on for joaquin.
uhmmmm DW.........I am detecting a tiny hint of envy/jealousy in your voice. Green is really not your color..............
Ohhhhhhhhh..........the thought of the scar on Joaquin's lip(mega sexy).....just makes my spine tingle.....ohhhhhhhhh yeah baby yeah...
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I really do not think I am arrogant... just presenting the truth.
1. Medical school is the most competitive graduate school program to enter.
2. Asians, Indians, and Jews represent over 25% of med school classes.
3. Asians, Indians and Jews make up less than 5% of the US population.
4. Due to affirmative action, if you are asian, indian or jew, it is harder to get into a top medical school since you have to compete with other asian, indians and jews.
5. Therefore, 1 + 1 = 2, if there was no affirmative action, there would be a much, much greater percentage of asians, indians and jews in medical schools.
I say this not to say that there should be no affirmative action, in fact if you read my earlier post you will see I am a staunch supporter of it. Rather I say this to basically tell all white pre-meds to stop whining about URMs.
1. Medical school is the most competitive graduate school program to enter.
2. Asians, Indians, and Jews represent over 25% of med school classes.
3. Asians, Indians and Jews make up less than 5% of the US population.
4. Due to affirmative action, if you are asian, indian or jew, it is harder to get into a top medical school since you have to compete with other asian, indians and jews.
5. Therefore, 1 + 1 = 2, if there was no affirmative action, there would be a much, much greater percentage of asians, indians and jews in medical schools.
I say this not to say that there should be no affirmative action, in fact if you read my earlier post you will see I am a staunch supporter of it. Rather I say this to basically tell all white pre-meds to stop whining about URMs.
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side note--I agree everyone needs to stop whining about AA. Do your best, get good grades, have a great interview....and don't worry. Don't feel that someone else is taking away "your" spot cause frankly the spot wasn't yours for the taking to start with. This is not like booking an airline ticket where you have a guranteed seat........unless you are assuming that "your" (medical seat) spot was given to a URM due to AA. That's a big assumption cause it could have been given to a white girl who was just more qualified than you.
Gowdah...much respect to you,
BUT
I have worked hard to change the focus of this thread to Joaquin or starbucks coffee.........so please please please........I will say no more now
Gowdah...much respect to you,
BUT
I have worked hard to change the focus of this thread to Joaquin or starbucks coffee.........so please please please........I will say no more now
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Bushbaby,
Thanks for the understanding. I will try to avoid stirring up controversy... but I hate it when people that are born with all social entitlements (just bc/ they lack melanin) start bitching when others try to even the playing ground. To all those, I say: "now you know what it feels like when life is not fair... Step up or shut up."
Thanks.
gowdah
Thanks for the understanding. I will try to avoid stirring up controversy... but I hate it when people that are born with all social entitlements (just bc/ they lack melanin) start bitching when others try to even the playing ground. To all those, I say: "now you know what it feels like when life is not fair... Step up or shut up."
Thanks.
gowdah
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Originally posted by BushBaby
uhmmmm DW.........I am detecting a tiny hint of envy/jealousy in your voice. Green is really not your color..............
oh boy, you've figured me out. I'm quite jealous of lip scars, along with cold sores and other mouth deformities, and oh how i wish i could sing and look like a 10 year old girl i dont think i'm on an island here, your displayed taste on these board in men is "strange", to say the very leasy
to each their own, i'm just messing with you of course. 
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OK Folks, let me break it down like this:
1) Why are we focusing on how different groups get into medical school? The bottom line is that since there is no "URM" MCAT test or "URM" USMLE, any minority group member that gets accepted into medical school will very likely finish and....
2) Be more likely than ANYONE to provide medical services to other minorities that do not receive adequate medical care. I am Black, but I don't want to go to an indian reservation to practice. A Native American, is far more likely to do this and if he/she gets into school "X" with lower stats than mine then, SO WHAT! If we are truly interested in helping people, which seems to be a stretch based on the previous responses, then you have to recognize the TREMENDOUS need for Doctors that represent ALL of America.
Finally, thank you Gowdah for "keeping it real" and to Agent beef up your application stats so you won't have to worry so much about URM's!!!
1) Why are we focusing on how different groups get into medical school? The bottom line is that since there is no "URM" MCAT test or "URM" USMLE, any minority group member that gets accepted into medical school will very likely finish and....
2) Be more likely than ANYONE to provide medical services to other minorities that do not receive adequate medical care. I am Black, but I don't want to go to an indian reservation to practice. A Native American, is far more likely to do this and if he/she gets into school "X" with lower stats than mine then, SO WHAT! If we are truly interested in helping people, which seems to be a stretch based on the previous responses, then you have to recognize the TREMENDOUS need for Doctors that represent ALL of America.
Finally, thank you Gowdah for "keeping it real" and to Agent beef up your application stats so you won't have to worry so much about URM's!!!
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