Internship Discussion / Clinical Hours / Locations

Therapist4Chnge · Sep 19, 2007

I split off the internship / clinical hours discussion from the Differing program lengths thread. I'm hoping for a good thread, partly because I'm going through the process now and it is what I'm dealing with on a daily basis, so it'd be nice to talk with others going through the process.

-t

Ollie123 · Sep 19, 2007

Define "signed off on". Do you mean the master's or the dissertation?

I'm actually going to be leading the pack in terms of clinical hours since I'm on a treatment study - thus I should be able to get a decent start on clinical hours right away(which sounds weird to me, even typing it). Not much fun for me since I prefer processing data and writing (which probably sounds weird to most of you folks, even reading it😉 ), but at least it gets me ahead of the game in clinical hours so I can hopefully reel back a bit come dissertation time and still come out with a substantial number of hours.

RayneeDeigh · Sep 19, 2007

Speaking of clinical hours, I heard the other day that some internship sights are now going to start considering anything about 1200 hours as reflecting a "lack of focus". So now we have to deal with getting enough, but not too many hours. lol

JockNerd · Sep 19, 2007

Maybe an internship hours/prep topic deserves its own thread? T4C?

The sites I was looking at when I was going through appic's database for my own information (internship is years away) tended to list about 400 or 500 (one or two required 1000) hours of practicum as the minimum number of hours required of applicants. In discussing some of this with a prof, I was told that sites geared toward training tend to be fine with lower numbers of prac hours, but sites that want someone to come in ready to go (or that want cheap or free labour...) will require 1200+ hours. In looking at some of the web sites out there with data about internship recruitment and interviews with site directors, it really seems like after you hit that magic number other things (diversity of clients and treatment modalities, for example) become much more important.

Ollie123 · Sep 19, 2007

Yikes, that's a scary thought. I think our AVERAGE is well over 1200.

Any idea what kind of sites you are talking about? Like are they the clinically oriented ones or are they Brown, Vanderbilt, Western, etc.

People here seem to do very well at internship so I guess I shouldn't worry, but what can I say - its in my nature.

Therapist4Chnge · Sep 19, 2007

Ollie123 said:
Yikes, that's a scary thought. I think our AVERAGE is well over 1200.

Any idea what kind of sites you are talking about? Like are they the clinically oriented ones or are they Brown, Vanderbilt, Western, etc.

People here seem to do very well at internship so I guess I shouldn't worry, but what can I say - its in my nature.

Is Vandy that research intensive? From my readings of their internship website, they seem to be pretty balanced (it is my top choice, by a good margin). I like the fact the majority of their interns stick around for post-doc because they have nice opportunities for more research, clinical hours, teaching, etc.

I'm trying to find an academic teaching hospital (whether it is a major or minor rotation) where I have access to solid training, clinical hours, and have an opportunity to do research and/or stick around for a post-doc. It is a tough balance though, since some are very research intensive (not my goal), and many are VAs.....which aren't a good match for what I'm looking for (I prefer mostly adolescents, young adults, and adults).

I'm trying to avoid community mental health centers like the plague, because I've heard the interns are usually cheap labor, and I want more for my experience. I'm also skipping the VAs since they are outside of my preferred patient population. Many of the hospital-related placements are in large cities, and some are ridiculously competitive (500+ apps for 4-6 spots).

I'm not sure if this thread will be more anxiety relieving or anxiety provoking!

-t

LM02 · Sep 19, 2007

While Vanderbilt is certainly a strong site, I have never heard it mentioned in the same breath as Brown and WPIC. Do they even have protected research time?

Otherwise, I thought I'd chime in and lend a word of caution when discussing clinical hours. There's the "Grand Total," which accounts for all of your face-to-face, support hours, and supervision hours. This number will obviously be larger for everyone. But total face-to-face hours will be fewer, and more variable.

I just peeked at my old APPIC application, and I had a little over 800 face-to-face hours (but around 1600 grand total hours). I got interviews at every site to which I applied, which included MGH, Brown, WPIC, Duke, University of Chicago, UW Med School, etc.

When you're applying to places like the ones I just mentioned, I think hours matter less and CV (plus match!) matters more. Obviously, for sites that are less "research-oriented," that number may have been a bit on the low side.

Therapist4Chnge · Sep 19, 2007

LM02 said:
While Vanderbilt is certainly a strong site, I have never heard it mentioned in the same breath as Brown and WPIC. Do they even have protected research time?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no. They strongly encourage everyone to do research, and most of their people stay on to continue their research, I don't think they have formalized time....at least I don't recall reading that on their internship website.

-t

RayneeDeigh · Sep 19, 2007

Ollie123 said:
Yikes, that's a scary thought. I think our AVERAGE is well over 1200.

Any idea what kind of sites you are talking about? Like are they the clinically oriented ones or are they Brown, Vanderbilt, Western, etc.

People here seem to do very well at internship so I guess I shouldn't worry, but what can I say - its in my nature.

I'm actually not sure, our director of clinical training just mentioned it as something to keep in mind. However, just knowing what your training will be like, I'm sure that your extensive research will balance out the many clinical hours and they'll just consider you exceptionally well-rounded. I think the comment by my DCT was just to remind us that clinical hours will take a backseat to research hours in most cases.

Ollie123 · Sep 19, 2007

Whoops, my mistake.
I was talking to someone who went to Vanderbilt last night and I got my wires crossed. Should have said Palo Alto. Very different😉

psychanon · Sep 19, 2007

LM02 said:
I just peeked at my old APPIC application, and I had a little over 800 face-to-face hours (but around 1600 grand total hours). I got interviews at every site to which I applied, which included MGH, Brown, WPIC, Duke, University of Chicago, UW Med School, etc.

When you're applying to places like the ones I just mentioned, I think hours matter less and CV (plus match!) matters more. Obviously, for sites that are less "research-oriented," that number may have been a bit on the low side.

good--- sounds a lot like my list. sounds like you did amazingly well in your apps! Any pointers to those of us who will be applying to many of the same places?
when you say UW, do you mean wisconsin or washington? I hear they're both good, yes?
I'm still considering the possibility of applying for internship this year (i need to decide asap), so if I do I need to do some very fast research. But basically I'm going for the research-y ones in cool locations.
A note to those of you who may be starting to get stressed about this--- where you go to internship isn't nearly as important as where you go to grad school. Going to a kick-ass internship like the ones on that list helps a lot, but going to a not so good one really doesn't hurt. I just really want to go to one of those research ones because I think I'd be so much happier having dedicated research time, and because forging research connections on internship would be invaluable (plus I like the idea of an available research post-doc).

Ollie123 · Sep 19, 2007

Good to know it won't kill me academically if I don't get one of those, but they shall remain my goal because (like you) I will be infinitely happier if I have time to play with data/write/maybe start working on grants.

Plus, tenure-track jobs in psych departments are hard enough to get as is, I figure any little thing that gives me a leg up, so much the better.

clearcolor · Sep 20, 2007

LM02 said:
...I just peeked at my old APPIC application, and I had a little over 800 face-to-face hours (but around 1600 grand total hours). I got interviews at every site to which I applied, which included MGH, Brown, WPIC, Duke, University of Chicago, UW Med School, etc.

When you're applying to places like the ones I just mentioned, I think hours matter less and CV (plus match!) matters more. Obviously, for sites that are less "research-oriented," that number may have been a bit on the low side.

Just wondering how different people/programs do this, but what was your general breakdown of the 800 hours (e.g. 4 patients weekly for X years at school clinic, X patients weekly at externship for X years, X hours from research treatment study....)

phd2006 · Sep 20, 2007

psychanon said:
...A note to those of you who may be starting to get stressed about this--- where you go to internship isn't nearly as important as where you go to grad school...

In my experience, very true.

LM02 · Sep 20, 2007

clearcolor said:
Just wondering how different people/programs do this, but what was your general breakdown of the 800 hours (e.g. 4 patients weekly for X years at school clinic, X patients weekly at externship for X years, X hours from research treatment study....)

About 60% of my direct face-to-face hours were from assessment. Otherwise, the rest of the hours were from brief outpatient individual, group, and couples therapy spread out across our training clinic and practicum sites where I was placed.

psychanon said:
when you say UW, do you mean wisconsin or washington? I hear they're both good, yes?

Yes, both are good - and I did actually interview at both. I was less enthusiastic about Madison because of limited postdoc opportunities - but it otherwise was a great place! I also really liked Seattle, but it was hard to gauge the match I had with them because they don't conduct interviews - they just invite their short list in for an "open house."

Therapist4Chnge · Sep 20, 2007

LM02 said:
Yes, both are good - and I did actually interview at both. I was less enthusiastic about Madison because of limited postdoc opportunities - but it otherwise was a great place! I also really liked Seattle, but it was hard to gauge the match I had with them because they don't conduct interviews - they just invite their short list in for an "open house."

Yuck. Do a lot of places do that? Internship is as much about my fit as it is their fit, I'd think they'd want to individual individually.

-t

Internship Discussion / Clinical Hours / Locations

Therapist4Chnge

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Ollie123

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RayneeDeigh

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JockNerd

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Ollie123

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Therapist4Chnge

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LM02

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Therapist4Chnge

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RayneeDeigh

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Ollie123

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psychanon

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Ollie123

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clearcolor

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phd2006

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LM02

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Therapist4Chnge

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