do you regret going into optometry?

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melucla

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I'm applying this year, and I've been enthusiastic about finding a profession I think suits me well. But I've been reading here about the negative stuff like the oversupply of ODs and the lower salary/fewer patients, and it's kind of discouraging. Considering this, would you, as an OD or opt student, recommend anyone going into optometry? as in, do the pros outweigh the cons, to you?

I'm not SO concerned about making huge amounts of money, but I'd like to pay off loans while living comfortably, and not have to practice in the middle of nowhere. Surely this is feasible? All the negativity just worries me, but I know this is something I do want to do.

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I'm applying this year, and I've been enthusiastic about finding a profession I think suits me well. But I've been reading here about the negative stuff like the oversupply of ODs and the lower salary/fewer patients, and it's kind of discouraging. Considering this, would you, as an OD or opt student, recommend anyone going into optometry? as in, do the pros outweigh the cons, to you?

I'm not SO concerned about making huge amounts of money, but I'd like to pay off loans while living comfortably, and not have to practice in the middle of nowhere. Surely this is feasible? All the negativity just worries me, but I know this is something I do want to do.

No.....

Even during my most frustrating times, and even during my sabbatical from the profession, I never regreted going school and becoming an OD.

That being said.....if I knew then what I know now, I would have done some things quite differently. You can do a search of my previous posts or PM me if you really want all the detail of what I would have done differently but I've posted it on here dozens of times and it should be easily searchable.
 
Nope. I love what I do. Every job has its pros/cons, but the pros in this profession outweight any negatives. But, it's a personal choice. If you're not a people person.. DO NOT go into the profession.
 
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Nope. I love what I do. Every job has its pros/cons, but the pros in this profession outweight any negatives. But, it's a personal choice. If you're not a people person.. DO NOT go into the profession.

those are some of the things i was hoping to hear :) i really see myself liking it, part of the reason I want to do it is because I want to have a job with lots of personal interaction. I am just hoping I won't have a hard time FINDING that job! Thanks
 
those are some of the things i was hoping to hear :) i really see myself liking it, part of the reason I want to do it is because I want to have a job with lots of personal interaction. I am just hoping I won't have a hard time FINDING that job! Thanks

There is no shortage of "jobs" for optometrists. However, the number of quality positions that you can turn into a "career" are much harder to come by. And it is the career, not the job you should be shooting for.
 
Wasn't there a thread JUST like this a week ago?
 
I would not recommend optometry to anyone that I care about. The profession is just not what I knew it to be.

1. Insurance penetration is too deep where patients go to see you if you are on their insurance panel. Plans are switching to 24 months for frames benefits, so they will wait it out if they can. If they don't have insurance, they go retail.

2. There is no profit in materials anymore. Contacts/glasses always have their alternative sources. The insurance plans dictate who much they will reimburse you for frames. They force you to use their contracted labs for lenses. The only thing you will get is the 'dispensing' fee. 15-30 dollars to service a frame is not enough to get by.

3. The culture of giving services away is horrible. It started by giving away free adjustments/replacements of frames. Guess where people get their products from and bring the frames in for you to adjust for FREE. Or ask you to take their PD so that they can enter that into their order online. Imagine a jeweler not charging you to put in that watch battery in hopes that you will buy from them again.

3. There is no direction in the leadership of the profession. It is a big bureacracy where they can't get anything accomplished and they lose the battles to the other professions. There are no commericials outlining what we do, our training, and why someone should see us. But I see lots of commercials for consumers to use a 'Realtor' on TV lately.

4. We are judged to the standard of care of an OMD, yet we get the respect of an optician. We are expected to diagnose and treat serious eye diseases, yet we can't get on medical panels to get paid like an OMD. How would you like to spend over 100K in your education and training yet not get paid to treat glaucoma. In the future, we are expected to perform certain tests which may require us to purchase automated equipment just to meet the standard of care. Just wait for that next lawsuit to dictate standard of care.

5. The vision plans know that we are stupid, so they are selling their plans to the big employers telling them that we can treat and manage eye diseases. It is because they know our training and know what we have to do in order to satisfy state board board requirements yet they will only pay us for a vision plan reimbursement. I don't think any of us wanted to go to school for 8 years and get paid less than a plumber. And for plumbers, every service call is charged. For us, either the insurance plans dictate that it is a one time charge, or patients scream bloody murder and complain to the board.

6. The move towards medical optometry is not just for higher pay, but for survival. But that will dry up as more patients will have to pay out of pocket for services i.e. higher deductible, co-insurance, higher copays. In the end, they will switch from PPO to HMO. When they switch to HMO's, individual OD's will be shut out of the panel.

If you are a student, a lot of what I am talking about is beyond your time. I advise you to go to a private practice and see things for yourself.
 
I would not recommend optometry to anyone that I care about. The profession is just not what I knew it to be.

1. Insurance penetration is too deep where patients go to see you if you are on their insurance panel. Plans are switching to 24 months for frames benefits, so they will wait it out if they can. If they don't have insurance, they go retail.

2. There is no profit in materials anymore. Contacts/glasses always have their alternative sources. The insurance plans dictate who much they will reimburse you for frames. They force you to use their contracted labs for lenses. The only thing you will get is the 'dispensing' fee. 15-30 dollars to service a frame is not enough to get by.

3. The culture of giving services away is horrible. It started by giving away free adjustments/replacements of frames. Guess where people get their products from and bring the frames in for you to adjust for FREE. Or ask you to take their PD so that they can enter that into their order online. Imagine a jeweler not charging you to put in that watch battery in hopes that you will buy from them again.

3. There is no direction in the leadership of the profession. It is a big bureacracy where they can't get anything accomplished and they lose the battles to the other professions. There are no commericials outlining what we do, our training, and why someone should see us. But I see lots of commercials for consumers to use a 'Realtor' on TV lately.

4. We are judged to the standard of care of an OMD, yet we get the respect of an optician. We are expected to diagnose and treat serious eye diseases, yet we can't get on medical panels to get paid like an OMD. How would you like to spend over 100K in your education and training yet not get paid to treat glaucoma. In the future, we are expected to perform certain tests which may require us to purchase automated equipment just to meet the standard of care. Just wait for that next lawsuit to dictate standard of care.

5. The vision plans know that we are stupid, so they are selling their plans to the big employers telling them that we can treat and manage eye diseases. It is because they know our training and know what we have to do in order to satisfy state board board requirements yet they will only pay us for a vision plan reimbursement. I don't think any of us wanted to go to school for 8 years and get paid less than a plumber. And for plumbers, every service call is charged. For us, either the insurance plans dictate that it is a one time charge, or patients scream bloody murder and complain to the board.

6. The move towards medical optometry is not just for higher pay, but for survival. But that will dry up as more patients will have to pay out of pocket for services i.e. higher deductible, co-insurance, higher copays. In the end, they will switch from PPO to HMO. When they switch to HMO's, individual OD's will be shut out of the panel.

If you are a student, a lot of what I am talking about is beyond your time. I advise you to go to a private practice and see things for yourself.

I don't quite get some of your arguments here....on the one hand you claim optometry is doomed because some vision insurances are going to 24 month frame benefits but then you also claim that there is no profit in materials anyways. If there's no profit, then what difference does it make how often an insurance company provides a frame benefit? I also disagree that there is no profit in materials.....there is plenty of profit in spectacle sales. Disposable contact lenses much less so, so your choices are to either set up a website of your own and just automate the whole contact lens distributions from your office or simply write on the Rx and tell the patient to go somewhere else to fill it if it isn't worth the hassle of doing it yourself.

Technically, a PD is part of an eyeglass prescription and you're supposed to put it on there anyways. Regarding the watch battery, my jeweler doesn't charge to put it in, only for the part itself.

Vision plans only have as much power as providers want to give them. If you aren't happy with the terms of a particular insurance plan, simply don't take it. There are plenty of plans that most doctors in my area don't take. There are also plenty of medical insurance plans that many physicians didn't take and that ultimately resulted in higher reimbursement. Optometrists need to have the courage to stand up and say "NO, I'm not taking that plan."
 
The doc I currently work for only takes Eyemed. He has dropped VSP, Spectera, Davis, ect... The only reason we take Eyemed is out of courteousy for 1 major plant in our area. Our optical does very well... We have built our practice on customer service. And we have 2 very good opticians.

Contact lens is another story. We try to get as many as possible to buy off our website. Many of our patients do take their Rx elsewhere - and this is fine. It's not worth it. (But we will order for them if they want us to.)

We also have many patients that realized their vision coverage is crappy and come to us regardless.

Oh... by the way. We will fix someone's glasses EVEN if they are not our patient! Oh no - heaven forbid.:scared: Many times they return to us to buy a 2nd pair. Also a lot of times they aren't satisfied with the glasses they received from other places. Then they like our glasses so they come to us for annual exams.
 
Would you guys say that optometry will be worth it 8 years from now if one's goal is to own a private practice (since from what I hear around here, such opportunities are becoming rarer because of all the new schools, walmart, etc...).
 
Would you guys say that optometry will be worth it 8 years from now if one's goal is to own a private practice (since from what I hear around here, such opportunities are becoming rarer because of all the new schools, walmart, etc...).

It depends only what you think. You know the evidence that many people have posted here. We can't predict exactly what future income will be but we have a pretty good idea of where the profession is headed. If you want to play along, then by all means become an optometrist.

That said, there will still be opportunities to buy a practice. It's not like they are going to dry up any time soon. If anything, the prices should be coming down since it will become harder to sell them as more and more ODs go into commercial optometry. Plus, as more of the older optometrists who were taught that their practice and building are their retirement nest egg retire, more of the realistic optometrists will be taking their place and the offers will become more reasonable over time. Clearly, if you are depending 100% on the equity in your practice to retire on, you are going to want to hold onto a much higher price.

As I said in another post, I looked at practices in 25 states and upwards of 100 different practices for sale. Most of them were ridiculous offers. Hopefully this will change over time.
 
I would not recommend optometry to anyone that I care about. The profession is just not what I knew it to be.

1. Insurance penetration is too deep where patients go to see you if you are on their insurance panel. Plans are switching to 24 months for frames benefits, so they will wait it out if they can. If they don't have insurance, they go retail.

2. There is no profit in materials anymore. Contacts/glasses always have their alternative sources. The insurance plans dictate who much they will reimburse you for frames. They force you to use their contracted labs for lenses. The only thing you will get is the 'dispensing' fee. 15-30 dollars to service a frame is not enough to get by.

3. The culture of giving services away is horrible. It started by giving away free adjustments/replacements of frames. Guess where people get their products from and bring the frames in for you to adjust for FREE. Or ask you to take their PD so that they can enter that into their order online. Imagine a jeweler not charging you to put in that watch battery in hopes that you will buy from them again.

3. There is no direction in the leadership of the profession. It is a big bureacracy where they can't get anything accomplished and they lose the battles to the other professions. There are no commericials outlining what we do, our training, and why someone should see us. But I see lots of commercials for consumers to use a 'Realtor' on TV lately.

4. We are judged to the standard of care of an OMD, yet we get the respect of an optician. We are expected to diagnose and treat serious eye diseases, yet we can't get on medical panels to get paid like an OMD. How would you like to spend over 100K in your education and training yet not get paid to treat glaucoma. In the future, we are expected to perform certain tests which may require us to purchase automated equipment just to meet the standard of care. Just wait for that next lawsuit to dictate standard of care.

5. The vision plans know that we are stupid, so they are selling their plans to the big employers telling them that we can treat and manage eye diseases. It is because they know our training and know what we have to do in order to satisfy state board board requirements yet they will only pay us for a vision plan reimbursement. I don't think any of us wanted to go to school for 8 years and get paid less than a plumber. And for plumbers, every service call is charged. For us, either the insurance plans dictate that it is a one time charge, or patients scream bloody murder and complain to the board.

6. The move towards medical optometry is not just for higher pay, but for survival. But that will dry up as more patients will have to pay out of pocket for services i.e. higher deductible, co-insurance, higher copays. In the end, they will switch from PPO to HMO. When they switch to HMO's, individual OD's will be shut out of the panel.

If you are a student, a lot of what I am talking about is beyond your time. I advise you to go to a private practice and see things for yourself.

I would just like to know where the evidence is for these statements. They sound like substance-less ramblings based solely on personal supposition. I'm not saying you're not entitled to these, but it would mean more if they were objective statements.
 
I would just like to know where the evidence is for these statements. They sound like substance-less ramblings based solely on personal supposition. I'm not saying you're not entitled to these, but it would mean more if they were objective statements.

Please have some respect for the doctor. He has his opinion based on his experience. If you feel that you need to discuss his comments then please ask pointed questions so he may provide some objective answers. Posting that a doctor has "substance-less ramblings" is not productive.

I really hate to tell you this but not everything in optometry or medicine is based on formal studies. Much of it is based on doctor's experiences and that's why we share them. I'm certain you've heard of case studies. Consider this to be a case study on the state of optometry. We should respect our colleagues and especially our superiors for their willingness to give us their knowledge.
 
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Please have some respect for the doctor. He has his opinion based on his experience. If you feel that you need to discuss his comments then please ask pointed questions so he may provide some objective answers. Posting that a doctor has "substance-less ramblings" is not productive.

I really hate to tell you this but not everything in optometry or medicine is based on formal studies. Much of it is based on doctor's experiences and that's why we share them. I'm certain you've heard of case studies. Consider this to be a case study on the state of optometry. We should respect our colleagues and especially our superiors for their willingness to give us their knowledge.

And with that you should know doctor's experiences are purely subjective. Maybe "substance-less" was a bit harsh, for sure, but what I meant by substance-less was that these opinions are based purely on the POV of that particular doctor. Nothing I stated was meant to be disrespectful, it was meant to be frank. They may be an expert in their own experience, but by no means does it span the entire spectrum and should be taken with a grain of salt with respect to the big picture.
 
Please don't misunderstand my frankness as being disrespectful. Would you rather I read this and keep my opinions to myself when I don't agree with someone? What would that promote?
 
And with that you should know doctor's experiences are purely subjective. Maybe "substance-less" was a bit harsh, for sure, but what I meant by substance-less was that these opinions are based purely on the POV of that particular doctor. Nothing I stated was meant to be disrespectful, it was meant to be frank. They may be an expert in their own experience, but by no means does it span the entire spectrum and should be taken with a grain of salt with respect to the big picture.

This is a forum for expressing one's own opinions and experiences. I don't understand why people constantly demand studies and objective analysis. We really are just a bunch of people talking. If you want a study, then you might have to do a little research on your own. I don't think that should be the goal of this site however. Let's not turn this place into the forum for the New England Journal of Medicine or the AOA Journal.

Take the comments for what they are worth and if you wish to form your own opinions on the subjects the doctor presented, then do you own homework. Search out other websites and forums like the optcomlist and ODwire and ask other doctors in person. I know for a fact you would NEVER say "substance-less ramblings" to a professor.

The point is: Don't demand. Just ask.

I'm just here to help...
 
I have said that to a professor, but that's besides the point. Of course they didn't take too kindly to it, but what is the alternative to people trying to pass off opinion as fact? Especially to people who may not know as much about a particular topic as a professor/doctor/forum poster? That alone should require a said poster to do their own homework in order to not misinform the less knowledgeable. This post began as "do you regret optometry" and if people look to this forum to gather information about this career, should they expect a doctor posting to have more substantiated opinions? They have a responsibility to be objective, no matter what their personal experiences have shown them.

In general, anybody who posts anything on a forum like this should be able to back up their viewpoints or their opinions or what they say does and should lose credibility. Some people would take the opinions of one man/woman as being fact and what does that accomplish for persons who know little or nothing about the profession? It provides a skewed POV.
 
What is the point of asking when demanding usually gets you a purer, more genuine answer? To be nice?

:D This is great. How long have you been in private practice, Dr. Watson? Do you find it enjoyable (ie that you don't regret your decision?) See...I can ask too, lol.
 
After 22 years in uk based hospital optometry, I now find myself absolutely hating my job. I had the chance all those years ago to go into dietetics, chemical engineering, genetics......I stick with optometry as it pays the bills and when you think about it, it's actually quite an easy job......can't wait to retire!!!!
 
If I know what I know now I would have chosen dentistry or medicine. I am a partner in a private practice that is strong and getting stronger year by year but I get so frustrated by the crap.

I'm still young and I probably will make a decent living but after 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of OD school, a year of residency, and as a fellow of the Academy I think the end result is less than stellar.
 
also in USA have trouble, i see..
what paremyd posted earlier it's common practice here in italy..

but differently, here we have a majority of opticians who make dispensing only and the "power" is kept by ophtalmologists who are considered as gods by the people..

here Optometry is kinda newborn and is part of the University since the last few years. i graduated recently, but fortunately found job soon after that. here is quite a mission, because there is a need of ECP whose job is not only dispensing and preparing spectacles, but a primary care professionists.

i see it in the daily practice and i see people recognize the differences this job has from the other ECP. a simple example is the give of adivices and explanations. people need this and they appreciate this, neither for contanct lenses (ortho-K included) nor for optometry and simple vision related problems.

i like my job, i started studying casually, but now it fits for me.
 
:love:
Absolutely not!! I love it so far and look forward to many, many years. When I see how we can help so many people in so many ways.... amazing.
 
If I know what I know now I would have chosen dentistry or medicine. I am a partner in a private practice that is strong and getting stronger year by year but I get so frustrated by the crap.

I'm still young and I probably will make a decent living but after 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of OD school, a year of residency, and as a fellow of the Academy I think the end result is less than stellar.

I'm now in my 7th year of practice. I love it. I get to meet interesting people everyday, and I make more $ than I ever thought I would.
 
Good for you and congratulations. Are you affiliated with a corporate or private practice?


I'm own a private practice, with two locations. I'm also in Canada. The nearest "corporate" optometry to me is a 3 hour drive away over a mountain pass. Life is good.
 
I'm applying this year, and I've been enthusiastic about finding a profession I think suits me well. But I've been reading here about the negative stuff like the oversupply of ODs and the lower salary/fewer patients, and it's kind of discouraging. Considering this, would you, as an OD or opt student, recommend anyone going into optometry? as in, do the pros outweigh the cons, to you?

I'm not SO concerned about making huge amounts of money, but I'd like to pay off loans while living comfortably, and not have to practice in the middle of nowhere. Surely this is feasible? All the negativity just worries me, but I know this is something I do want to do.

Yes this is certainly feasible! I do not regret going into Optometry, but I have to say that I was not told the entire truths of the pros vs cons of Optometry. If I could change anything, I wish I was better prepared for the "Real Optometry", and not what professors or google salary searches got me.

I was unaware of how much an influence corporate has on the profession. And unaware of the limitations of the different scopes of practice in each state.

But all in all, the profession is good. And this is in no way just an Optometry problem. If you interview or search other doctors, physicians etc; you will see a reoccuring theme of lowered expectations than taught, lower salaries than expected, etc. Many of the MD doctors are unhappy with their careers.
 
I think what the above poster said will sum up a lot of the conflicts :)
:thumbup:
 
As a 2009 graduate, I can tell you that it all depends on how much in debt you will be by the time you finish OD school. I say if you owe ~100K after 4 yrs, then I would recommend optometry. But if you are going to be in debt in the range of 150K - 200K, then you will be better off choosing a different health profession.
 
As a 2009 graduate, I can tell you that it all depends on how much in debt you will be by the time you finish OD school. I say if you owe ~100K after 4 yrs, then I would recommend optometry. But if you are going to be in debt in the range of 150K - 200K, then you will be better off choosing a different health profession.

For the benefit of everyone, can you expand a little bit more on why you feel that way?

Are you working? Are you satisfied with where you are working? Are you satisfied with your salary?
 
As a 2009 graduate, I can tell you that it all depends on how much in debt you will be by the time you finish OD school. I say if you owe ~100K after 4 yrs, then I would recommend optometry. But if you are going to be in debt in the range of 150K - 200K, then you will be better off choosing a different health profession.
For that to work, one would have to either live at home with parents or have a working spouse who can cover all or almost all the living expenses for 4 years....
 
For the benefit of everyone, can you expand a little bit more on why you feel that way?

Are you working? Are you satisfied with where you are working? Are you satisfied with your salary?


Currently i am working part time in private practice and doing fill in work at two different commercial places. Upon graduation, I was hoping to find a full time position in private practice (not necessarily partnership), but I was only able to find part time. And the pay is ridiculously low (no benefits whatsoever, hourly pay). The reason why I am working at this place is b/c of its working environment. I enjoy going to work there and my boss doesn't tell me what i should or should not do with my patients. Another reason that I could afford to work at my low-paying part time job is b/c my income is secondary compared to my husband's and what I bring home is additional.

The pay in commercial fill-ins is $10 higher/hr, but the work is not as rewarding to me and it is a lot busier. I was able to find these two fill-in commercial places through an OD friend and I probably will continue to fill in when they need me to if I can't find something else better later on.

When I first graduated, I interviewed for a full time position in commercial setting. During the interview, they named out specifically what their expectations were (eg: long commute to different locations, ability to "sell" materials, see at least 4 pts/hr, when i should dilate or should not dilate). I knew then that I can't work in that kind of environment and I probably will end up quitting anyways.

So now the only stable thing that I have going on is the "low-paying" part-time job in private practice. This practice is relatively new and I am sticking it out b/c I enjoy working there and i am also hoping that I can help grow the practice and it would eventually lead to a full-time position.

Listen up prospective students, I consider myself extremely lucky to be married to a wonderful husband who has a stable, good paying job to back me up during this time. We live in an area with high cost of living and with me being in deep debt (~200K), we are postponing buying a home and having kids until I could find something more desirable and long-term. If i didn't have help from my husband, my options would be more limited. I probably would have taken the full time job in commercial setting, out of desperation, so i can pay my student loans and feeling miserable going to work b/c I will be told how I should perform my job.

It's too late for me to realize that optometry school is not worth ~200K. Believe it or not, optometry school is extremely expensive. I am a very frugal person and yet I still owe that much. Most of my friends are in debt in the same ballpark and most, if not all, are working commercial b/c the pay is higher. I feel that if I had owed only ~100K, I can do so much more, such as opening my own private practice and still be able to buy a home and start having kids.
 
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The thing is this phenomenon is not only optometry. The same low pay high debt can be seen across all health care fields of many graduate schools.
I know of many MD/DO grads with worse debt in the 300,000 range and becoming a general practice doc. Many starting salary for family docs that I know of is in the 90-110,000 range and that doesn't include the mandatory residency so you are not done until close to your late 20s or early 30s... (I have multiple stories to back this up)
So to blame only optometry as having this problem would be looking at a closed box, this happens to many professions and a problem America needs to fix! Talk to any medical doctor about this problem and they will say the exact same thing the above poster mentioned.
 
No regrets.
Hospital based optometry is great. Having access to lab and imaging such as CT and OCT is great. Referral sources such as ER and Urgent Care clinics makes for an interesting set of patients. I highly recommend the hospital based route for all those interested in practicing full scope. A residency is a great way for students to get their foot in the door for opportunities in hospital based care.

Peace.
 
The thing is this phenomenon is not only optometry. The same low pay high debt can be seen across all health care fields of many graduate schools.
I know of many MD/DO grads with worse debt in the 300,000 range and becoming a general practice doc. Many starting salary for family docs that I know of is in the 90-110,000 range and that doesn't include the mandatory residency so you are not done until close to your late 20s or early 30s... (I have multiple stories to back this up)
So to blame only optometry as having this problem would be looking at a closed box, this happens to many professions and a problem America needs to fix! Talk to any medical doctor about this problem and they will say the exact same thing the above poster mentioned.

Exactly! I know an oMD who did a "LASIK/Cornea" fellowship & wasn't offered the "big bucks" he thought they were deserving of; so he now works as a LASIK doc-in-the-box and that's what he does ALL DAY; he hates it! He makes about $300,000/yr. Ask any oMD how much they make compared to that! :scared:

As was already stated, most professions have the same problem in common.
 
The thing is this phenomenon is not only optometry. The same low pay high debt can be seen across all health care fields of many graduate schools.
I know of many MD/DO grads with worse debt in the 300,000 range and becoming a general practice doc. Many starting salary for family docs that I know of is in the 90-110,000 range and that doesn't include the mandatory residency so you are not done until close to your late 20s or early 30s... (I have multiple stories to back this up)
So to blame only optometry as having this problem would be looking at a closed box, this happens to many professions and a problem America needs to fix! Talk to any medical doctor about this problem and they will say the exact same thing the above poster mentioned.


That pay is very low for family docs. That must be in a saturated area. Primary care medicine is in under-supply (as apposed to OD oversupply). I live in a decent smaller town and the local hospital has been looking for a pediatrician for over a year!
 
The thing is this phenomenon is not only optometry. The same low pay high debt can be seen across all health care fields of many graduate schools.
I know of many MD/DO grads with worse debt in the 300,000 range and becoming a general practice doc. Many starting salary for family docs that I know of is in the 90-110,000 range and that doesn't include the mandatory residency so you are not done until close to your late 20s or early 30s... (I have multiple stories to back this up)
So to blame only optometry as having this problem would be looking at a closed box, this happens to many professions and a problem America needs to fix! Talk to any medical doctor about this problem and they will say the exact same thing the above poster mentioned.

Primary care doesn't pay the big bucks.... but 90-110k range is way below average for a PCP. The docs who are earning that much are most likely working part time and/or are working in an oversaturated area.
 
I don't quite get some of your arguments here....on the one hand you claim optometry is doomed because some vision insurances are going to 24 month frame benefits but then you also claim that there is no profit in materials anyways. If there's no profit, then what difference does it make how often an insurance company provides a frame benefit? I also disagree that there is no profit in materials.....there is plenty of profit in spectacle sales. Disposable contact lenses much less so, so your choices are to either set up a website of your own and just automate the whole contact lens distributions from your office or simply write on the Rx and tell the patient to go somewhere else to fill it if it isn't worth the hassle of doing it yourself.

Technically, a PD is part of an eyeglass prescription and you're supposed to put it on there anyways. Regarding the watch battery, my jeweler doesn't charge to put it in, only for the part itself.

Vision plans only have as much power as providers want to give them. If you aren't happy with the terms of a particular insurance plan, simply don't take it. There are plenty of plans that most doctors in my area don't take. There are also plenty of medical insurance plans that many physicians didn't take and that ultimately resulted in higher reimbursement. Optometrists need to have the courage to stand up and say "NO, I'm not taking that plan."

If you decide to cut off vision plans, you won't be getting any patients coming in. There is no negotiating with these plans as far as reimbursement.
I do not give PD's to anyone going online. I do not do someone elses optical work for them. I dot pupils and measure from there. They can do the same thing. Oh that's right, they need a frame.
The profit on materials is very low. Eyewear sales do not give high profits thanks to Wal marts, 1800 and vision plans. You can not have a private practice and rely on exams only. The profit is low, but we do not need the vision plans messing things up by offering benefits every 2 years
 
Yes.

I chose to become an optometrist when I was 16. I really liked science, anatomy, and in particular, ocular anatomy. I liked dissecting sheep and cow eyes in high school. I also liked the fact that optometrists made 50k a year.

Now, the problem with the above statement is this: There is no mention of liking people or caring about people, who happen to be the bearer of eyes.

I have fantastic technical skills as an optometrist.

But that's all I have.

I lack the charisma to be a great optometrist. I'm less than mediocre because I just never developed the proper social skills needed to be a good doctor.

I'm very shy. That's been a huge problem. If patients sense it, they eat me alive. Even after 14 years, I still have not learned how to small talk with patients. If I try, it sounds fake. This defect in my personality has made me very frustrated and depressed and sad over the years. I wished I were different, but my nature is my nature. Optometry goes against my nature.

The profession I should have gone into didn't exist yet when I was in high school. Had I to do my life over again, I'd have taken the art route, or gone into computers ... professions that are less people intensive.

I am presently re-training to become a web designer, graphic designer, etc ... I even took a year off optometry school (several years ago) to study digital graphics and web design. I got some bad advice from my parents to quit the art school thing and get back to work. I did and I now regret it. Obamacare is coming and I think the writing's now on the wall. I've gotten the sign I've been seeking: when to leave.

Web designers make the same $ if not more than I do now, so why continue doing something that's made me incredibly miserable when I can do something that I LOVE and make the same?

What's cool is that I can retrain for web design from home and I can do it without a degree. All you need is a slam-dunk portfolio. It also helps that I have a near-photographic memory. Helps with CSS. HA!

Do not, and I repeat DO NOT go into optometry if you don't LOVE people and LOVE talking to them ALL DAY LONG! If you don't have charisma in your personality, that ability to be "on" for nine or ten hours straight, do yourself a favor and pick a different profession.

But hey, if you like people and like chatting with them and are not shy, but outgoing and cheerful, then by all means, go for it! You'd be an exceptional OD.
 
Some frank honesty here.

You definitely have to "like" people to be in this profession. I think most folks who get into optometry are of this type, but it seems some folks get in who aren't.

2020, I imagine you are the exception. You still have the opportunity to find another career and fulfill yourself.
 
The conversation can be a part of the job I love and hate. You build bonds with people over time that can be a great asset to a practice. We usually write things down about a patient (# kids, job type, hobbies) and ask about them the following year.

Conversations can also be awkward as well. I'm getting to the point where I despise having to talk with CL abusers about corneal health. Most of the time I think they just blow me off. I usually will give an ultimatum to improve habits or CL's will not be renewed. Seriously, people will spend $1500 on cell phone bills, or $1000 on smokes a year, but $250 a year on CL's is too much? Then they either change habits or probably not come back to my practice. Or a -5.00 CL user that thinks there is no need for back up spectacles until they are in for an infection/red eye.

With any job there is the good and bad.

I think if I had to do it again, I would have picked Pharmacy. Stable job, pay, benefits, and time off.
 
Some frank honesty here.

You definitely have to "like" people to be in this profession. I think most folks who get into optometry are of this type, but it seems some folks get in who aren't.

2020, I imagine you are the exception. You still have the opportunity to find another career and fulfill yourself.

I don't really see why though.

Doesn't the exam last for a maximum of 20 minutes or so, then onto the next exam?

During the exam the patient can talk about whatever they want, but I suppose all you would have to say is "Yes" "Uh huh, totally" " Can you please not move any part of your face as I am having trouble reading your eye pressure" etc.
 
Web designers make the same $ if not more than I do now, so why continue doing something that's made me incredibly miserable when I can do something that I LOVE and make the same?
.


Are you kidding me? The oversupply of web designers is 10x more than ODs.

There are many different types of opportunities for ODs. If personality and chatting with patients is not your thing, consider the military, research, or IHS.
 
Could you please comment on the research side a bit? Haven't seen anything re: research opportunities for OD's.

I may consider that.
 
Yes.


Do not, and I repeat DO NOT go into optometry if you don't LOVE people and LOVE talking to them ALL DAY LONG! If you don't have charisma in your personality, that ability to be "on" for nine or ten hours straight, do yourself a favor and pick a different profession.

But hey, if you like people and like chatting with them and are not shy, but outgoing and cheerful, then by all means, go for it! You'd be an exceptional OD.

Isn't being personable an advantage in any professional. You don't have to be the funniest, witty, most outgoing friendly guy in the world...but people are turned off by lack of communication you must at least be able look people in the eye ( no pun ) and explain a little about what you are doing as their primary eyecare Doc. Sometimes you may just hit it off with someone and have some fun, but you can't be a complete stiff and expect people to like you and send others in. If its that much of an issue you should consult an MD about medication for social anxiety disorder.
 
There are some folks who just naturally aren't very social. They are uncomfortable in social situations. These people obviously exist, otherwise everyone would have the same amount of "social skills", but that obviously isn't the case.

I don't think you need "a lot" of social skills to be an OD, but if this is a tough job if you basically are uncomfortable interacting with people.
 
Reading through this thread is so depressing for someone who's not an optometrist, I can only imagine how it feels to be an optometrist-to-be and going through this thread.

I did think about going into optometry, joined an interest group in undergrad and helped spread the word around regarding optometry but I ended up in medicine.

Maybe the grass is always greener on the other side?
 
Reading through this thread is so depressing for someone who's not an optometrist, I can only imagine how it feels to be an optometrist-to-be and going through this thread.

I did think about going into optometry, joined an interest group in undergrad and helped spread the word around regarding optometry but I ended up in medicine.

Maybe the grass is always greener on the other side?



If managed care is a big PITA for medicine, then just imagine ODs have to deal with both medical insurance AND discount vision insurance. We get it from two different angles (it ain't no menage a troi :mad:). Add in unscrupulous retailers employing ODs and it can make your head spin sometimes.
 
Vision Plans are the #1 worst thing about Optometry IMO. They want you give all of your skills away for basically free. They promote comprehensive eye exam when it should be just a refraction/spectacles/contact lenses they cover.

S-exam or 92004 should be a non-covered service, payable by the patient.

92015 should be what a "Vision Plan" covers.
 
The problem is stupid ODs who are taking these plans which just perpetuates the problem and establishes them further.

Most OD's will say they would starve without VSP, Eyemed, or Davis Vision in their practice. But in reality you are just grossing high numbers and netting very little from these plans. Yeah you may have to sign up if want on Aetna or United Health Care (luckily low penetration in my area).

Vision Plans are like drugs. They get into your life, become a necessity, and start slowing leading to headaches, and long term addiction.

Kids, Vision Plans just say "NO"
 
What if you guys banded together and stopped accepting these dental discount plans?
 
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