Grades for pre-med

Kyleorz87 · Nov 27, 2007

Im a freshmen at a state university and am listed as a pre-pharm but will be switching to a full fledge biology major/pre-med in the spring. Our biology1 here is known as the hardest class in the biology program i have a B-/B right now ive spoken with many medical students and seniors applying and they assure me this is not bad at all and that bio 2 is alot easier and should be an easy A and after seeing the exams its deffinitly ALOT easier. I will be taking Physics 1 and 2 and Chem 1 and 2 my soph year and then Ochem and upper bio coursework through my senior year. i have worked in a retail pharmacy for 2 years and a hospital for about a year prn. I do not wish to become a pharmacist anymore but my advisor told me that these are still good things to list on a medical school application cause it shows you help people in a community setting with taking their medications. Is their any thing else i should try and do along the way? ive shadowed many doctors and have 4 letters of recomendation. Also whats the deal with calculus? do you have to take it for pre-med? most say no and i hate math so any advice would be great on these topics. I know its still early in the game but im just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks for anyone that can help
-Kyle

clc8503 · Nov 28, 2007

Kyleorz87 said:
Im a freshmen at a state university and am listed as a pre-pharm but will be switching to a full fledge biology major/pre-med in the spring. Our biology1 here is known as the hardest class in the biology program i have a B-/B right now ive spoken with many medical students and seniors applying and they assure me this is not bad at all and that bio 2 is alot easier and should be an easy A and after seeing the exams its deffinitly ALOT easier. I will be taking Physics 1 and 2 and Chem 1 and 2 my soph year and then Ochem and upper bio coursework through my senior year. i have worked in a retail pharmacy for 2 years and a hospital for about a year prn. I do not wish to become a pharmacist anymore but my advisor told me that these are still good things to list on a medical school application cause it shows you help people in a community setting with taking their medications. Is their any thing else i should try and do along the way? ive shadowed many doctors and have 4 letters of recomendation. Also whats the deal with calculus? do you have to take it for pre-med? most say no and i hate math so any advice would be great on these topics. I know its still early in the game but im just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks for anyone that can help
-Kyle

The reason why no one is responding to this is because it is long, boring, uninteresting, and you're asking so many questions all at once. I'll try to answer them the best that I can but I might miss a few of them. You do not need calculus for pre med, but it doesn't look bad either. From what I've seen on SDN, 50% of the people will say that's important and 50% will say it doesn't matter. MCAT Physics relies more on concepts and formulas, and are for the most part simple if you can visualize the problem. Schools will not reject you over something like not taking calculus unless the school requires it. Few of them actually do.

Moving on, if freshman biology is the hardest biology that you're school offers, I'd recommend switching schools or changing majors because that's not the way it's supposed to be. The second biology is kind of like and intro to anatomy, microbiology and plants (at least at my school). The first biology was kind of like an intro to biochemistry, molecular biology, and just what biology is in general. I found it to be a bit harder than the second one but overall it doesn't hold anything to an upper level bacterial genetics, immunology, mycology class or any other course along those lines. I think you're on the right track for the most part.

You really need to strive for a 3.5 GPA and >25 MCAT if you want to be competitive, without question, for a D.O. program. Osteopathic schools calculate GPA differently than allopathic schools. Retakes replace previous grades, which can help you out in the GPA department. The shadowing will look good. That never hurts. I'd recommend doing your homework on D.O. admission standards and philosophy. Read many of the posts on SDN even if you're not entirely sure it's something that may interests you. I've learned all kinds of things about D.O. schools just by reading random threads and posts on this forum. I say this because you are asking very general questions and because you only have one post. For the most part general questions that could easily be answered in five minutes on google tend to annoy a lot of members. The fact that you worked in a pharmacy, or just that you worked during undergrad at all will make you appear more well rounded so I would list that as well.

Best of luck.

Jpc984 · Nov 28, 2007

Also, Math is not counted (in your Science gpa) for AACOMAS but is For AMCAS. Does this factor in your decision?

Out of the many MD programs I applied to (n=2), USUHS was the only school that required it.

I do not know of any of the Osteopathic programs that require it.

nlax30 · Nov 28, 2007

I agree, Calc may not really help you much. I took it but then took a couple of years off from school, and then went back to finish up my degree by the time I was finishing and taking the MCAT I couldn't remember a darn thing from Calc. My physics was trig based and was plenty for MCAT prep. I think the calc thing may have to do more with whatever major you choose....your bio dept may require it.

If you're only a freshman you have time, so just relax and little and focus on doing well in your classes. Some other sciences that you might look into taking later on may be ones such as Genetics, Psychology, Microbiology, Anatomy/Physiology, Immunology, etc... I would recommend going to the websites of some med schools you might be interested in, AND/or going to your advisor or pre-med advisor (if you have one) and getting a list of science classes that most med schools require, and just keep that list in the back of your mind so you can start crossing those off over the next couple of years.

In general:

- Do well in your classes. A "B" or something early on isn't going to hurt you, but if medical school is really something you want to do it'll be much easier if you realize that now and focus on doing well. Take it from me, it's hard to come back from slacking off your first 2 years in undergrad.

- Volunteer: Get involved in pre-med group on campus if there's one since they'll probably have ongoing service projects you can help with. If there's not one just go get involved somewhere. Call a local Senior Center or Nursing home and offer to come in a couple hours a week to spend some time with the residents. Or call up a local hospital and see if you can come in once a week or so and play with kids on the pediatric ward, etc....

- Shadow/Clinical experience: You've already done some it seems. Call up local doctors and see if they'll let you come shadow. Or if you're really interested in a certain field see if you can work out a schedule where you come in and shadow like once a month or something so you get a little more on-going face time with the doc. Could always help in that you could get a good LOR at the end.

- Research: Probably the most variable of all of these. Not "required" but kind of depends what sort of med school you'd like to go to. I helped out some neuroscience research my last year of undergrad (no papers or anything) and quickly found out that basic science research was NOT for me. Will probably look into doing some clinical research this summer, but at least I found something that didn't interest me, which is just as useful. So if you think you'd be interested in research go look up what your professors are working on and if something catches your eye go talk with them and see if you could help out.

Dabyachunv · Nov 28, 2007

clc8503 said:
The reason why no one is responding to this is because it is long, boring, uninteresting, and you're asking so many questions all at once.

Wow

...not..not in a bad way, but ummm, you don't sugarcoat things eh'. Wow, sorry Im just laughing over here, its just too funny...and true. Good advice anyway.

sparhawksd · Nov 30, 2007

Here's my advice:

1. Try not to let your GPA (Science or Non-Science) drop below 3.5 in any quarter or semester. If your grades are low the first year, show improvement each year in college and/or demonstrate consistency in your GPA from term to term
2. Avoid getting C's in any of your classes especially your science ones. I had friends who were interviewed and they were asked "why did you get a "C" in...?" during their interviews.
3. If possible, avoid taking more than 12 units of science in any single term. I broke this rule a couple times, but it is not recommended.
4. Score at least 25 or higher on the MCAT. A lot of the DO schools: Western, PCOM, CCOM, AZCOM in particular have averages that are at or above this number.
5. Be persistent and apply early to increase your chances.
6. Have as many extracurricular activities as you can handle without letting your GPA suffer.
7. Shadow a DO and MD if possible to see which branch of medicine suits your personality best!!
8. Balance your studies with fun activities so you do not go insane.

Hope this helps!

Jpc984 · Nov 30, 2007

sparhawksd said:
Here's my advice:

1. Try not to let your GPA (Science or Non-Science) drop below 3.5 in any quarter or semester. If your grades are low the first year, show improvement each year in college and/or demonstrate consistency in your GPA from term to term
2. Avoid getting C's in any of your classes especially your science ones. I had friends who were interviewed and they were asked "why did you get a "C" in...?" during their interviews.
3. If possible, avoid taking more than 12 units of science in any single term. I broke this rule a couple times, but it is not recommended.
4. Score at least 25 or higher on the MCAT. A lot of the DO schools: Western, PCOM, CCOM, AZCOM in particular have averages that are at or above this number.
5. Be persistent and apply early to increase your chances.
6. Have as many extracurricular activities as you can handle without letting your GPA suffer.
7. Shadow a DO and MD if possible to see which branch of medicine suits your personality best!!
8. Balance your studies with fun activities so you do not go insane.

Hope this helps!

If you do get C's you are not automatically rejected! so don't let this post scare you. C's in the first two years are more "acceptable" than the last two years....

sparhawksd · Nov 30, 2007

I completely agree. My friends got a couple C's here and there and still got into Med School, but if anything try not to let your GPA drop in your junior and senior years of college.

Powdermonkey · Nov 30, 2007

Make sure you get into the pre-Ninja healing classes. Those tend to fill up quickly and are required to apply to DO schools.

ChubbyChaser · Nov 30, 2007

Biology 1 is the hardest course at your school? doubtful. Probably has the lowest grades because its a weird out course and weeds out all the inferior students.

Amy B · Nov 30, 2007

Kyleorz87 said:
Is their any thing else i should try and do along the way? ive shadowed many doctors and have 4 letters of recomendation. Also whats the deal with calculus? do you have to take it for pre-med? most say no and i hate math so any advice would be great on these topics. I know its still early in the game but im just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks for anyone that can help
-Kyle

I took Calculus and hated it. You do NOT need it to get into med school!!!!

You say you have 4 letters of rec already....do you mean you have 4 people ready to write your letters? Keep in mind you should only get 4-5 letters total, and since you are only a freshman you will need some letters that will be more current in a few years.While it is good to keep contacts, dont get letters this early. They will not be current enough to apply with.

I agree with what others have said, Bio I while it is a weedout class, should not be the hardest bio class you will take. Just work hard to maintain a B or higher. I did get into med school with a number of Cs, but it is always better not to have them. Good luck on your journey!

Jpc984 · Nov 30, 2007

If you think about it, Bio I is the hardest class, in relative terms.

1. It is usually a survey course on a large amount of material, some you have never learned before.

2. You take it during your first or second semester, so you are still having transitional problems between high school and college (well some of us)

3. Hopefully, by the time you take your upper bio classes you are used to confusing questions and tricks. you also have better study methods, theoretically!

Snake Doctor · Nov 30, 2007

nlax30 said:
I agree, Calc may not really help you much. I took it but then took a couple of years off from school, and then went back to finish up my degree by the time I was finishing and taking the MCAT I couldn't remember a darn thing from Calc. My physics was trig based and was plenty for MCAT prep. I think the calc thing may have to do more with whatever major you choose....your bio dept may require it.

If you're only a freshman you have time, so just relax and little and focus on doing well in your classes. Some other sciences that you might look into taking later on may be ones such as Genetics, Psychology, Microbiology, Anatomy/Physiology, Immunology, etc... I would recommend going to the websites of some med schools you might be interested in, AND/or going to your advisor or pre-med advisor (if you have one) and getting a list of science classes that most med schools require, and just keep that list in the back of your mind so you can start crossing those off over the next couple of years.

In general:

- Do well in your classes. A "B" or something early on isn't going to hurt you, but if medical school is really something you want to do it'll be much easier if you realize that now and focus on doing well. Take it from me, it's hard to come back from slacking off your first 2 years in undergrad.

- Volunteer: Get involved in pre-med group on campus if there's one since they'll probably have ongoing service projects you can help with. If there's not one just go get involved somewhere. Call a local Senior Center or Nursing home and offer to come in a couple hours a week to spend some time with the residents. Or call up a local hospital and see if you can come in once a week or so and play with kids on the pediatric ward, etc....

- Shadow/Clinical experience: You've already done some it seems. Call up local doctors and see if they'll let you come shadow. Or if you're really interested in a certain field see if you can work out a schedule where you come in and shadow like once a month or something so you get a little more on-going face time with the doc. Could always help in that you could get a good LOR at the end.

- Research: Probably the most variable of all of these. Not "required" but kind of depends what sort of med school you'd like to go to. I helped out some neuroscience research my last year of undergrad (no papers or anything) and quickly found out that basic science research was NOT for me. Will probably look into doing some clinical research this summer, but at least I found something that didn't interest me, which is just as useful. So if you think you'd be interested in research go look up what your professors are working on and if something catches your eye go talk with them and see if you could help out.

Hi, I'm quite new to the shadowing aspect. How does it work normally? Is once a month (for a few months) common? I also read somehwere that someone shadowed a D.O. for three days straight, and that was it (?).
I'm currently a 2nd year and I'm really considering D.O. (although I do take some heat from my allopathic-obsessive peers)

nlax30 · Dec 1, 2007

CobraEvent said:
Hi, I'm quite new to the shadowing aspect. How does it work normally? Is once a month (for a few months) common? I also read somehwere that someone shadowed a D.O. for three days straight, and that was it (?).
I'm currently a 2nd year and I'm really considering D.O. (although I do take some heat from my allopathic-obsessive peers)

It varies, no real set length or frequency, probably will depend more on the physician you're following and how often they're willing to have you come in.

If you don't have much experience in a certain field you may start off just spending a day or so with the physician, and at the end inquire about coming back if it interested you. So don't worry about trying to get a certain amount of hours in shadowing, just focus on getting some decent clinical experience and go in with your eyes open. The main point is really for you to get a small glimpse of what being a physician is really like. Med schools want people who have some sort of idea of what the reality of the job is, and not just applying because of unrealistic expectations.

And if you're considering DO schools then it would probably be good to shadow one, as a lot of DO Schools like you to have a letter of rec from a DO. I had a contact with a DO who was an EM physician and since I'm interested in EM I went and spent maybe like 10 shifts in the ED with him shadowing and had him write a letter for me.

Kyleorz87 · Dec 2, 2007

thanks for all the advice everyone i really apprecaite it. at my school youre right bio 1 is a class where they try and get rid of alot of students. their are not many A's in biology here and out of almost 900 students less then 30 have A's .. ya .. this is a huge pharm/med school. Im getting a B/B- right now my advisor told me that im doing well and that as long as i dont fall to a C+ i shouldnt have to retake it. I am looking forward to biology 2 . My friend is in biology 2 now and his exams are a joke... i dont even know if i would have to study to do well in this guys course. But right now other then biology im taking 16 credits all together and that is my only b the rest are A's. But yes i have 4 doctors that will when the time comes write me letters of recomendation. After looking at this differences between DO vs MD i think DO's are better trained doctors for primary care, which is what i want to do. They seem to actaully care about that patient and do not look at them like they are a piece of matter and nothing else.. the one doctor i shadowed(MD) wouldnt even look at the patients because he went to BIG BAD CASE!!!! OOO NOOO! haha. but thank you all for your advice and for dealing with my long questions that were all grouped together. appreciate it
-Kyle

Grades for pre-med

Kyleorz87

New Member

clc8503

Senior Member

Jpc984

Full Member

nlax30

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Dabyachunv

So confused

sparhawksd

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Jpc984

Full Member

sparhawksd

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Powdermonkey

ninja doctor in training

ChubbyChaser

Yummmy

Amy B

I miss my son so much

Jpc984

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Snake Doctor

24

nlax30

Full Member

Kyleorz87

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